If the Big 12 expands back to 12...

[KYSooner]

If the Big 12 expands back to 12, which two teams would you like to see join?

I figure if this happens TCU is a lock, so my second vote would be between 5 teams:

-SMU
-Houston
-Boise State
-BYU
-Louisville (believe it or not, this would be my #1 choice)

[birddog]

if the big 12 can't find someone besides these peons, we's in big trouble.

[KYSooner]

I don't think a few of them are "peons."

SMU and Houston are similar to current Baylor.

Boise St. would be a fantastic football and wrestling addition...not great on much else.

BYU would be an overall above average pickup for about everything.

Louisville would be a wonderful pickup for everything. Would contend for basketball title most years; baseball has been great as of late; football has been down a few years but was a title contender just a few years ago and has had great talent and on the rise again. (Not to mention we would gain better access to SEC and Big 10 markets in terms of recruiting.)

[StoopTroup]

I'd like to see Nebraska St and Kansas A&M

[ouwasp]

How 'bout the AFA?

[StoopTroup]

Louisiana Tech

[Cornfed]

Why not Colorado st and North texas.:)

[flyou11]

TCU for sure and my other options would be...

-Houston
-Tulsa
-Colorado State
-Louisville

I really don't think BYU or Boise would fit in in the Big 12. I wouldn't enjoy watching them. My 2 cents.

[silverwheels]

TCU? The conference doesn't need anymore teams from Texas. Just makes each slice of the pie smaller for each school. Given our realistic options, I'd rather the conference stay at 10.

[soonervegas]

BYU and West Virginia

[birddog]

yeah, we already have enough bottom feeders in here as it is.

[soonerchk]

Arkansas.

[Cornfed]

yeah if we added a bunch of mediocre teams we could be the SEC.

[TheMind__Gap]

USuC and Florida...

[jkjsooner]

This is the first I've heard Louisville being thrown around. It doesn't fit perfectly geographically but much better than some of the others mentioned. It would also expand the media market footprint and like you said they've had good football teams and bring a ton in basketball. I like the choice.

I wouldn't mind CSU or AFA either.

Right now I think calling it the Big 12 with 10 teams is embarrassing. It just points out the failure to keep NU and CU. The Big 10 might have 11 (and soon 12) teams but that fact points to a gain of quality programs not a loss.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Tulsa

[flyou11]

I'm one that doesn't want to see us stay at 10 schools. I like having 12 and I really like the Big 12 Championship game. I'm not looking forward to not having that game next year.

Arkansas would be an amazing grab. However, they would be stupid to leave the SEC and come to our weaker conference.

[StoopTroup]

Havana University....I hear they sell Cigars in the stands during games.

[John Kochtoston]

The Big 12 already has one small, private school from Texas. That is one too many. The conference will die with the expiration of the TV contract in 2015. However, if it is to make it, it needs to expand its footprint with big schools that can bring in a decent amount of TVs. Air Force and BYU might do that. Colorado State is less likely to do so. There really aren't any other realistic options, unless the Big 12 would like to try to poach a school from somewhere way beyond its current geographic footprint.

[pappy]

TCU and Cincinatti

[boomermagic]

Arkansas.

This

[SoonerMarkVA]

There's no one available who would want come in to the league, who also would boost the league's stature, or at least not diminish it. We're better off at 10 than adding more slugs to bring it to 12. TCU as a program would at least not diminish the league, but adding more Texas schools by itself does. Arky's not coming. No one else that makes regional sense helps the league.

Leave it at 10 until the league eventually folds. Our region can't keep up with the TV deals the Big 10, ACC, and SEC can put together. I eventually see each of those leagues doing the 16-team deal, which will force the P-16 merger. Only now, someone's going to get left out because of Utah being proactive. I have to think it's coming in the next 5 years or so. ESPN isn't going to subsidize the XII-2 forever.

[SicEmBaylor]

Havana University....I hear they sell Cigars in the stands during games.

This gets my vote.

[Penguin]

Hawaii

The Presbyterian College Blue Hose

[EatLeadCommie]

I think the BXII is going to implode within a few years, possibly as soon as this offseason. In such a scenario, I see Texas going indy (their plan all along), aTm going to the SEC, and us possibly following. The rest of the BXII will then merge up with the powers of MWC, which by then will include Boise, Nevada, etc... I think that's the best option for OU, actually. Stick with the old Big 8 minus Nebraska, bring in TCU, BYU, Boise, and the quality teams from out west into a new conference. The idea of bringing in TCU and SMU isn't bad in that scenario then because you will have lost the Texas heavy hitters in UT and aTm.

New Conference would be divided into two divisions, either east/west or north/south...

north/south
OU, OSU, Baylor, TCU, BYU, SMU
KU, KSU, Mizzou, Boise, Nevada, BYU

Only problem with a north/south divide is that the north is the only team that has to travel out of its time zone, so that probably won't be agreeable to the old BXII north teams, but I think that's the only way it'll work unless you just have nonsense divisions, a la the ACC, where there is no rhyme or reason. Frankly, I think the BXII north would just be content to remain in a competitive conference and bite the bullet.

Oops, I just noticed I have BYU in both divisions. Gonna be a tough slog for them!

[OUEngr1990]

Houston, so I can be guaranteed OU will play in Houston every other year.

[Monster Zero]

If the Big 12 expands back to 12, which two teams would you like to see join?

I figure if this happens TCU is a lock, so my second vote would be between 5 teams:

-SMU
-Houston
-Boise State
-BYU
-Louisville (believe it or not, this would be my #1 choice)

Air Force Academy
Tulsa

[PLaw]

If the Big 12 expands back to 12, which two teams would you like to see join?

I figure if this happens TCU is a lock, so my second vote would be between 5 teams:

-SMU
-Houston
-Boise State
-BYU
-Louisville (believe it or not, this would be my #1 choice)

Check the "none of the above" box.

The best case scenario is to woo Arky back to their roots and Nebbish renegs on the move to the Big X(?).

Since neither of those will happen, then expect the Big 12 to meltdown. I fully believe texass will go the independent route with their own network. No other conference will allow them to keep that cash cow.

OU, OSU, A&M and possibly Tech head to the SEC or the Pac. Mizzou, KU, KSU to the Big X(?).

The future is at least twelve team conferences with championship games.

Bummer.

[PLaw]

New Conference would be divided into two divisions, either east/west or north/south...

north/south
OU, OSU, Baylor, TCU, BYU, SMU
KU, KSU, Mizzou, Boise, Nevada, BYU



The thought of this is about as welcoming as a six kamakazi hang-over.

I think I'll go toss my cookies now.

BOOMER

[Funky G]

How about Northeastern in Talequah or the Savages in Durant? They are almost on par with the Big 12...

[delhalew]

:gary:

We should go independent and schedule who we want.

[Breadburner]

Arkansas/TU....No More Texassss teams......

[eyeballjr]

I would like them to just drop OU and Texas and get the inevitable over with. This conference is going to eventually fail, and i really don't want to be in it when it does.

[Soonerfan88]

Teams we really want aren't true options. From what we could probably get?

Memphis - booster rumored to give $1M to any AQ conference taking them. Horrible football team that could get better and basketball is good. Right now, the Vols control the state in football but Memphis could make inroads and also might bring some Arkansas market with them.

BYU - maybe, they may prefer to stay independent. Some say scheduling could be hard since they won't play Sundays but I think it would work. Utah isn't a bad market and has national appeal due to religion (see Domers).

AFA - another maybe. Academy recruiting probably won't improve no matter what conference they are in and AFA may want to stay smaller to make bowl eligibility more certain. Better draw than Co State for the Denver market and national appeal as service academy.

Overall, I see these as the only true options unless someone else from another AQ conference opens a dialogue. Why jump from the Big East, with a much lighter schedule and easier road to a BCS game? Arkie isn't leaving the SEC. No more Texas teams will be added because they bring nothing to the table market wise.

[soonerchk]

I don't understand why everyone says there is no way Arkansas would leave the SEC? They're the step child there, and at least they'd have some more regional support with us than they ever did with the SWC. And they'd automatically be power team. They may not do it, but I don't understand why so many people think they wouldn't even consider it?

[Soonerfan88]

Leaving the SEC would be admitting they are a stepchild and won't ever be dominant. Arkie pride won't allow them to do that, either their AD or the big money boosters. Plus, they truly have issues with OU that I've never understood. It's not the same but somehow even worse than OSU's little brother envy. Maybe someone who lives there could explain it.

[silverwheels]

Yeah, I'm confused as to where the Razorbacks' inferiority complex with OU comes from, since we've never been in the same conference as them. Maybe it's because we've been very successful for decades and they haven't.

[jkjsooner]

north/south
OU, OSU, Baylor, TCU, BYU, SMU
KU, KSU, Mizzou, Boise, Nevada, BYU



No offense but this is the worst scenario I have heard. This would be a horrible conference.

I say we attempt to get the hogs and if we can't then join 'em in the SEC.

The one problem I see about the SEC is that it would be hard to play in the SEC and still try to play Texas every year. I guess it wouldn't be harder than Florida playing FSU every year.

[mdklatt]

Arkansas

Don't be tempted by flash-in-the pan teams. How long can TCU keep it going? Nevada!?!? Also, it's about more than football.

[WA. Sooner]

unlv for the road game

[caseysooner]

Tulsa would be a good pickup for the north div.

[MR2-Sooner86]

When it comes to expansion, I know several want to look at other sports other than football but lets be real, football is where it's at. I mean just at the Big 12 Athletics Revenue (http://www.rockchalktalk.com/2009/6/18/913647/a-look-at-big-12-revenues-expenses) Football is where the money is at so I say, go after a football team first. That's me though.

Total Revenue from Athletics '07-'08 Year
Texas $120,288,370
Oklahoma State $88,554,438
Kansas $86,009,257
Oklahoma $77,098,009
Nebraska $75,492,884
Texas A&M $74,781,640
Colorado $52,631,896
Missouri $49,113,786
Kansas State $48,160,113
Baylor $44,151,763
Texas Tech $42,844,855
Iowa State $38,642,013

Total Revenue from Football Only
Texas $72,952,397
Nebraska $49,076,861
Texas A&M $42,552,070
Oklahoma $40,922,446
Colorado $28,755,199
Oklahoma State $23,106,517
Kansas State $21,900,159
Texas Tech $20,213,600
Missouri $19,301,864
Iowa State $17,404,826
Kansas $14,841,115
Baylor $11,053,460


Total Revenue from Men's Basketball Only
Kansas $14,578,095
Texas $12,892,079
Oklahoma State $9,716,296
Texas A&M $9,250,279
Missouri $8,023,598
Texas Tech $7,127,522
Oklahoma $6,369,446
Nebraska $6,318,062
Kansas State $6,188,443
Iowa State $5,982,727
Colorado $3,804,777
Baylor $3,524,789

[mdklatt]

When it comes to expansion, I know several want to look at other sports other than football but lets be real, football is where it's at.

Where does the football revenue of Nevada, TCU, Boise State, etc. compare to Arkansas?

[SoonerInFortSmith]

As someone who has lived in Arkansas for 10 years now i can honestly say i have no clue why they hate OU so much. I don't think they even know. I do know they would NEVER leave the SEC to join us. About 2 million hillbilly heads would explode simultaneously. They are way too arrogant to even realize they are not even a top tier SEC team. So IMHO discussing them as an option is a waste of breath.

[John Kochtoston]

Arkansas makes more money in the SEC than they would in the Big 12. That is why they aren't leaving.

[rm50]

I would rather it stay at 10 teams than bring in two weak teams.

[OUTrumpet]

Presidents would veto down Boise in a heartbeat. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see what they could do in a real conference, but till they upgrade their academics they won't get the shot. Academically aren't they still on par with a community college? Or just stop being one recently?

[sendbaht]

I'd like to see Nebraska St and Kansas A&M

how about Nebraska St and Colorado St same names just add the st make osu happy with more "ST" lots of little brothers then in the big 12

[MeMyself&Me]

Any new teams MUST be from different states than any current teams which means that discussing TCU is a waste of time. Getting real tired of the TCU threads already. Arkansas is a long shot and I don't even think worth pursuing that much FINANCIALLY which is the reason to add teams. I don't think they'd hurt but I don't think they'd help either.

If the Big 12 wants to survive, it needs to look to the Big East. Big markets there.

[OUthunder]

Arkansas State or New Mexico.

[silverwheels]

Any new teams MUST be from different states than any current teams which means that discussing TCU is a waste of time. Getting real tired of the TCU threads already. Arkansas is a long shot and I don't even think worth pursuing that much FINANCIALLY which is the reason to add teams. I don't think they'd hurt but I don't think they'd help either.

If the Big 12 wants to survive, it needs to look to the Big East. Big markets there.

Big travel times, too.

[Football Jim]

My 2 cents.....

There is no way the Big XII will be caught napping and allow themselves to get raided again by another conference. It still may self destruct but I would guess that instead if being reactive the Big XII will become proactive and may do some dealing of their own to get it back to 12 schools. The mere fact that they are keeping the Big XII name says that is the plan.

There is absolutely nobody available that makes sense from a geographical stand point as far a football is concerned. Adding 2 schools to become bottom feeders won't help the conference in football at all BUT in other sports it may make sense.

If we were to become a better basketball league then it is fairly easy. Get rid of the nebbish and the beefaloes as they suck at basketball and they helped out by leaving.
Add New Mexico which is an awkward fit but would be doable. Add Louisville which is an even more awkward fit but the power ratings would be through the roof. If not New Mexico then Memphis might be a good choice.
Another awkward fit would be the Air Force Academy. I would be proud to share a spot with them in the conference. They bring better than average academics and decent teams in most sports.

Any way you slice it it will be an awkward fit as the old conference alignments made great geographical sense. The current trend of chasing money will screw it all up in the end I am afraid.

Adding any of the ones I mentioned wouldn't do a thing to add to the football prowess of the league though.

[GDC]

Either UTEP/New Mexico or Arkansas/Iowa.

[silverwheels]

I don't see the Big 12 getting either Arkansas or Iowa, and UTEP and New Mexico wouldn't add enough to the conference to offset how much they split the revenue pie.

[Sooner5030]

Rule 1: only add teams in new TV markets that we don't already dominate. otherwise why divide up the same TV share between more teams?

BYU is a no brainer. New market and has a certain national appeal due to mormons.

AFA is an option but hard to decide between them and CSU. Personally I like AFA due to the type of school and a small national following.

Notre Dame would be top but they need 5 more shiaty seasons before they give in to a conference.

other options: New Mexico, Utah, Nevada

[John Kochtoston]

The New Mexico/UNLV ideas are intriguing, but we'd need some major guarantees from those schools that they would commit to upgrading their football programs in a big way. Facilities, recruiting budget, the whole nine.

[PDXsooner]

Give it up. The Big 12 will die in 5 years.

[soonervegas]

If A&M and Mizzou, maybe OSU can get it going consistently it is still a viable conference without additions. Problem is that had proved to be a big if....

[pac10SUX]

Lots of good ideas on here and good discussion. Big12 needs to be proactive and put together the first mega-conference.

Add Louisville & Cincy from the Big East (let the Big East grab TCU & Houston to expand into Texas recruiting) - 2 new states & large cities
Add Boise St & BYU - 2 new states

Then maybe grab the best in Colorado (AFA or Colo St) and the best in either Nevada (Nevada) or New Mexico (UNM).

I think the Big12 can expand both east & west.