Why are ppl talking abt BCS ranking being the tiebreaker?

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Assuming OU and aTm win on Saturday, wouldn't OU go just because of their record? aTm having 3 losses. OSU and OU each with 2. This eliminates aTm and OU gets the nod for head to head against OSU.... I don't understand why it would go past #1 of the three way tiebreaker rule?

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&ATCLID=1546006




Divisional Champion: The (eligible) team with the best winning-percentage of all divisional members in its eight conference games is declared the divisional champion and representative to the Dr Pepper Big 12 Conference Football Championship Game. A team ineligible under NCAA or Big 12 rules for postseason (bowl) competition shall not compete in the Championship Game.

Divisional Tiebreakers: The following procedure will determine the representative from each division in the event of a tie:

a. If two teams are tied, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative
b.If three or more teams are tied, steps 1 through 7 will be followed until a determination is made. If only two teams remain tied after any step, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative.

1.The records of the three teams will be compared against each other
2.The records of the three teams will be compared within their division
3.The records of the three teams will be compared against the next highest placed teams in their division in order of finish (4, 5 and 6)
4. The records of the three teams will be compared against all common conference opponents.
5. The highest ranked team in the first Bowl Championship Series poll following the completion of Big 12 regular season conference play shall be the representative in the Big 12 Championship Game, unless two of the tied teams are ranked within one spot of the other in the BCS poll. In this case, the head-to-head results of the top two ranked tied teams shall determine the representative in the Big 12 Championship Game.
6. The team with the best overall winning percentage (excluding exempted games) shall be the representative.
7. The representative will be chosen by draw.


Assuming OU and aTm win on Saturday, wouldn't OU go just because of their record? aTm having 3 losses. OSU and OU each with 2. This eliminates

[WichitaSooner]

Any talk in the rules of record are conference record.

[badger]

http://www.satori.org/images/irritated.gif

[cccasooner2]

Any talk in the rules of record are conference record.

Yep, Hogs not in conf (yet).

[usaosooner]

Any talk in the rules of record are conference record.

This... SO..Much... This...

:pop:

[Scott D]

Assuming OU and aTm win on Saturday, wouldn't OU go just because of their record? aTm having 3 losses. OSU and OU each with 2. This eliminates aTm and OU gets the nod for head to head against OSU.... I don't understand why it would go past #1 of the three way tiebreaker rule?

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10410&ATCLID=1546006




Assuming OU and aTm win on Saturday, wouldn't OU go just because of their record? aTm having 3 losses. OSU and OU each with 2. This eliminates

ok...here is how they would have it.

1. all 3 schools would have 1-1 records against each other.
2. all 3 schools would have 1 loss against the north and 1 loss in the division.
3. all 3 beat baylor, all 3 would have beaten texas, all 3 beat tech
4. they'd have the same record in the conference against common opponents.
5. (The BCS Ranking) this is what gives OU the edge, beating OSU would push us close to the top 10 if not into the 10th spot. The question becomes where would a loss to us drop OSU, and how far would aTm move up with a win over Texas.
6. would favor us and pokey state because aTm's non conference loss comes into play.
7. Hell, that's the Texas rule, and if it comes to this then UT will represent the South against Nebraska/Missouri ;)

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Any talk in the rules of record are conference record.

I disagree. We wouldn't have a three way tie if someone had a better conference record.

[TheMind__Gap]

I disagree. We wouldn't have a three way tie if someone had a better conference record.

I believe you to be incorrect sir.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

I believe you to be incorrect sir.

So, we WOULD have a 3 way tie if someone had a better conference record?

[TheUnnamedSooner]

I believe you to be incorrect sir.

Divisional Champion: The (eligible) team with the best winning-percentage of all divisional members in its eight conference games is declared the divisional champion and representative to the Dr Pepper Big 12 Conference Football Championship Game. A team ineligible under NCAA or Big 12 rules for postseason (bowl) competition shall not compete in the Championship Game.

[The]

This is like playing cards with my brothers kids....

[sooner_born_1960]

How could someone have a better conference record and still be tied?

[jkjsooner]

I disagree. We wouldn't have a three way tie if someone had a better conference record.

You are correct that it is not about overall conference record. Tiebreaker #1 is the record against the other tied teams - not the overall conference record nor the overall record.

Think of this scenario. OU, OSU, and A&M all have 1 loss in conference. OSU lost to OU, A&M lost to OSU, and OU lost to Baylor.

Since OU beat both OSU and A&M then OU should win on a head-to-head basis. However, if you interpret rule #1 to be the entire conference records (which makes no sense since we already knew the conference records were the same) OU does not necessarily win the tie-breaker. In fact, OU could lose out on tiebreaker #3.


I'm not saying this because tiebreaker #1 is unambiguous. I am saying it because this interpretation is the only one that makes any logical sense. To be clear, the conference really needs help from someone with a little better writing skills than whoever wrote this trash. I can't believe they'd leave something as important as this up to such ambiguous language.

[sooner_born_1960]

That can't happen. What happened in the OU ATM game?

[EatLeadCommie]

aTm was 5 spots behind us last week. They are 4 spots behind us after beating Nebraska. Beating Texas is not going to get them closer to us if we beat OSU. If we win, we win the BXII South, plain and simple.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

aTm was 5 spots behind us last week. They are 4 spots behind us after beating Nebraska. Beating Texas is not going to get them closer to us if we beat OSU. If we win, we win the BXII South, plain and simple.

This conversation has nothing to do with where they rank.

[jkjsooner]

That can't happen. What happened in the OU ATM game?

Is that addressed to me? If so, my scenario was just a hypothetical to make a point. I know we lost to A&M (and beat Baylor) and I know each of us has 2 losses instead of 1.

[SoonerPr8r]

because 5 comes before 6

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Is that addressed to me? If so, my scenario was just a hypothetical to make a point. I know we lost to A&M (and beat Baylor) and I know each of us has 2 losses instead of 1.

In your scenario it can't happen because it looks like A&M and OU won the game against each other...

[thurman murman]

I can't tell if this thread is supposed to be serious.

[jkjsooner]

Okay, so let's break this down. Tiebreaker #1 could mean one of three things.

1. Compare the overall record against the other teams.
2. Compare the conference record against the other teams.
3. Compare the record among games played between the tied teams.

If it was #1 then rule 6 is redundant.

If it was #2 then then it's an impossible case since by definition of a tie they all have the same conference record.

Clearly this means #3 and the scenario I gave above gives an example of why it is the only one that makes sense based on our common notion of head-to-head.

[EatLeadCommie]

This conversation has nothing to do with where they rank.

but its relevant, since all would share the same conference record. The tiebreaker rules you cite specifically talk about the record in conference in the first paragraph. Scott D broke down the rest pretty well.

In short, assuming a 3 way tie, aTm is not going to miraculously jump up to be one spot after us after we beat OSU. Having 3 losses and already being 4 spots behind us assures this. There would at least be OSU between them and us, and even assuming a final BCS finish of OU, OSU, and aTm, OU goes because they beat OSU head to head and aTm is two spots behind.

[jkjsooner]

In your scenario it can't happen because it looks like A&M and OU won the game against each other...

You are correct. Duh!

Okay, so here's the (hopefully) correct hypothetical then.

OU lost to Baylor and Tech and beat both OSU and A&M.
OSU lost to OU and A&M.
A&M lost to OU and Texas.

Hopefully if I covered everything that demostrates the point I was trying to make.

All three teams have 2 losses.
All three teams have 2 losses in the division.

OU should go due to head-to-head but only if you interpret tiebreaker #1 as being games amongst the tied teams.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

That makes sense, I was misreading it.

[Leroy Lizard]

That makes sense, I was misreading it.

Never admit a mistake. Instead, dig in your heels.

[jkjsooner]

Darn it, I messed up my hypothetical again. A&M lost to OU and Baylor. Texas, sucking as they do, did not win a single game.

[jkjsooner]

That makes sense, I was misreading it.

You didn't misread anything. The sentence is ambiguous and poorly written. You guessed wrong at its meaning. ;-)

At least you didn't totally hose up your own example...

[jkjsooner]

Here's my question, if we do beat OSU (and that's hardly a given) are A&M fans going to bitch and moan about how they have the head-to-head win over us or, unlike Texas, are they able to comprehend the concept of a three way tie.

Are we going to have to be careful not to beat OSU too bad as that would "eliminate OSU from consideration" just as we did to Tech in '08?

Going back to '08, it was the height of arrogance on Texas' part to simply dismiss Tech and try to make it between OU and Texas.

[cccasooner2]

This is like playing cards with my brothers kids....

:D

[Scott D]

Here's my question, if we do beat OSU (and that's hardly a given) are A&M fans going to bitch and moan about how they have the head-to-head win over us or, unlike Texas, are they able to comprehend the concept of a three way tie.

Yes, to both parts of that


Are we going to have to be careful not to beat OSU too bad as that would "eliminate OSU from consideration" just as we did to Tech in '08?

No, because no matter if OU wins by 3 or wins by 30 or wins by 50 they won't fall out of the rankings, just behind aTm


Going back to '08, it was the height of arrogance on Texas' part to simply dismiss Tech and try to make it between OU and Texas.

It was easier for Texas to conveniently forget that they lost to Tech because the entirety of their being was focused on them having beaten us nearly two months earlier. But, that goes back to your first question.

[Scott D]

You didn't misread anything. The sentence is ambiguous and poorly written. You guessed wrong at its meaning. ;-)

At least you didn't totally hose up your own example...

I don't think it's that poorly written. the second rule makes it clear that the first rule strictly refers to games between the three tied teams.

[SoonerNutt]

I can't believe I read this whole thread.

:bsmf:

[cccasooner2]

I can't believe I read this whole thread.

:bsmf:

At least you were not having an Emily Litella moment. :)

[swardboy]

Migraine....

[MamaMia]

You never know what the human pollsters will do.

[fwsooner22]

I want that 5 minutes back.............

[sooner_born_1960]

Is that addressed to me? If so, my scenario was just a hypothetical to make a point. I know we lost to A&M (and beat Baylor) and I know each of us has 2 losses instead of 1.


In your scenario it can't happen because it looks like A&M and OU won the game against each other...
Yeah. That's what I meant.

[OU GENO]

Will we see Banners in the Sky sat?

[Breadburner]

Lol....Texas was so ****ed in 08....lol....

[1890MilesToNorman]

What about the 45-35 rule and FAA flight plan stuff?

[Mississippi Sooner]

http://greatdaneband.com/Images/lolz/dear-god-make-it-stop.jpg

[JLEW1818]

Out of conference does not matter vs the BIG 12

Please remember we play under the BCS
All it does it give us 1 and 2 to play each other. The rest is left for the conferences to pick in bowl games. (and sometimes the conferences use bcs rankings as a late tie breaker.)

Let's say OU is 8-4, but 8-0 in conference
and say texas is 11-1, but lost 1 confernce game to OU.
OU wins the South.

But OU would not be ahead of texas in the BCS rankings.
Texas very well could be 1 or 2.

Go back and look at the 2001 season. Nebraska went to the title game without winning their divison.

just some facts

[yermom]

but if in 2008 OU and Texas had lost all their non-conference games, but we beat Tech, Tech beat Texas and Texas beat us as their only conference losses, then Tech would have gone to the championship game

under either set of rules


i'm not sure why 5 is above 6

[JLEW1818]

but would tech have gone under that, because their BCS ranking would be higher? or is it not considered a tie?

[soonerbrat]

but if in 2008 OU and Texas had lost all their non-conference games, but we beat Tech, Tech beat Texas and Texas beat us as their only conference losses, then Tech would have gone to the championship game

under either set of rules


i'm not sure why 5 is above 6



because they would've been higher ranked in the BCS.

[yermom]

i can't imagine a scenario where you actually get past #5

[badger]

http://greatdaneband.com/Images/lolz/dear-god-make-it-stop.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/jgi5ht.jpg

[TheUnnamedSooner]

i can't imagine a scenario where you actually get past #5

If all three teams were ranked exactly the same :D

[yermom]

well, i guess there is that...

[OUEngr1990]

A&M has no shot. It will be the winner of Bedlam that goes to the ccg. It's pretty clear.

[STUpendOUs]

Shut up! Just shut up! He doesn't get it! He'll never get it! It's been 4 hours! The pokes even understand tiebreakers by now! Forget about it please!
:pop:

[yermom]

but would tech have gone under that, because their BCS ranking would be higher? or is it not considered a tie?

there would still be 3 South division co-champs. they are tied as far as conference records go, and to break the tie, you have to go to step 5, which may have been overall record last year, i'm not sure

[goingoneight]

Facepalm.

The BCS determines the South Champ in the event of a 3-way-tie. Whether or not aTm lost to Arkansas, or Arkansas State or Baylor is out of the question. BCS sez 2 losses are < 3 losses.

[yermom]

Unless you are Kansas in 2007

[sendbaht]

You better be sure about all this crap guys because then I can root for A&M....

if there was even a little chance of A&M getting into the Big 12 game when OU beats lil brother then I would....oh this is hard to type...root of texas.

[cccasooner2]

You better be sure about all this crap guys because then I can root for A&M....

if there was even a little chance of A&M getting into the Big 12 game when OU beats lil brother then I would....oh this is hard to type...root of texas.

You're covered. :)

[JLEW1818]

there would still be 3 South division co-champs. they are tied as far as conference records go, and to break the tie, you have to go to step 5, which may have been overall record last year, i'm not sure

Does number of Obama votes ever factor into the tie breaker? :D