Those Poor Fans!

[Judge Smails]

I'm so upset thinking about what these poor fans have been going through...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5818473

[DarrellZero]

Faking injuries is weak.

I hope we would never do it.

[Rocko]

Gah, Chip Kelly is such an arrogant prick. I hope his team gets stomped again in a whichever bowl they attend.

[CowboyMRW]

The comments are pretty funny. Some are proclaiming dynasty already

[MamaMia]

The comments are pretty funny. Some are proclaiming dynasty already

whatever

[Leroy Lizard]

If teams are faking injuries it's essentially an admission that they can't beat the Ducks straight up and have to resort to schemes to have a chance, kind of like a kid tripping the race leader because he can't keep up.

No more than calling a timeout.

I hate to bring up the middle school play again (actually, I don't), but faking injuries is not illegal. So if it is allowed, does that make it a legitimate strategy?

I say no, that it's Busch League. But, there is nothing we can do about it for the time being, so just consider it a weapon in the defense's arsenal that we have to overcome.

There are a few things that could take place in the rules book during the off-season.

1. If you stop the clock on account of an injury three times, you're finished for the day. (Gotta' protect the players, so consider this the three knockdown rule).

2. Your stay on the sidelines increases the more you get injured (brought up by someone else in here a few days ago).

3. On your third injury, your team plays with 10 men, not 11. (Not gonna' happen.)

4. If officials have to stop the clock on account of your injury, you're not coming in until the next series. (This would be the easiest to implement and most fair. It would also be the most effective.

[Collier11]

its simply a thing that teams do that there is no way to police, no point in getting up n arms about it

[Leroy Lizard]

Is it any different then getting up slowly from a pile when milking the clock?

[Collier11]

Can you imagine the 1st time a ref were to call a flag on it and the guy was really hurt

[Crucifax Autumn]

Kelly or Stoops or someone will find a way to counter the azzholes who use this tactic.

[Leroy Lizard]

Kelly or Stoops or someone will find a way to counter the azzholes who use this tactic.

Without any changes to the rules, what can they do?

[Crucifax Autumn]

If I knew that I'd be a million dollar coach!

[Mongo]

No more than calling a timeout.

I hate to bring up the middle school play again (actually, I don't), but faking injuries is not illegal. So if it is allowed, does that make it a legitimate strategy?

I say no, that it's Busch League. But, there is nothing we can do about it for the time being, so just consider it a weapon in the defense's arsenal that we have to overcome.

There are a few things that could take place in the rules book during the off-season.

1. If you stop the clock on account of an injury three times, you're finished for the day. (Gotta' protect the players, so consider this the three knockdown rule).

2. Your stay on the sidelines increases the more you get injured (brought up by someone else in here a few days ago).

3. On your third injury, your team plays with 10 men, not 11. (Not gonna' happen.)

4. If officials have to stop the clock on account of your injury, you're not coming in until the next series. (This would be the easiest to implement and most fair. It would also be the most effective.

Holy **** you over analyze everything.

Quick: what's the square root of soonerfans.com?

[Turd_Ferguson]

Holy **** you over analyze everything.

Quick: what's the square root of soonerfans.com?Bacon!! What I win??

[Mongo]

Bacon!! What I win??

Correct, but you do not get credit because you didn't show your work on how you came up with the answer.

[tcrb]

If you really take a step back and be honest about it, the no huddle hurry-up offense itself is sort of a gimmick in itself. Nothing illegal about it at all, but it has been a successful strategy for the teams that have used it because it messes with the rhythm of the defense and limits substitutions. Faking injuries is the strategy that teams have come up with to counter the fast pace of the no-huddle. Nothing illegal about that either and it's difficult to refute. Short of the NCAA implementing some kind of rule change to ensure that injuries are legit (I'm not sure how they could do this with certainty), there's not much that can be done about it. Teams that run the no-huddle will just have to line up and play.

[sooner518]

I dont remember any ESPN articles when Florida did this to us in the national title game. It logically makes sense to make the "injured" player sit out a certain number of plays, but that would almost require the NCAA admit that this is a problem and I dont really see them doing that

[badger]

Get the Neffel rule going (even though it would only apply at the end of a game). For the rest of the game, perhaps make players sit out more than one play?

[Landthief 1972]

4. If officials have to stop the clock on account of your injury, you're not coming in until the next series. (This would be the easiest to implement and most fair. It would also be the most effective.

I was just going to say this. My dad has been calling for that for years, especially after the Mizzou DE got "injured" so many times in our game that we thought he was going to have to have an amputation and blood transfusion. If you keep cramping that badly that often, your butt should be on the sidelines with an IV.

[Landthief 1972]

If you really take a step back and be honest about it, the no huddle hurry-up offense itself is sort of a gimmick in itself. Nothing illegal about it at all, but it has been a successful strategy for the teams that have used it because it messes with the rhythm of the defense and limits substitutions. Faking injuries is the strategy that teams have come up with to counter the fast pace of the no-huddle. Nothing illegal about that either and it's difficult to refute. Short of the NCAA implementing some kind of rule change to ensure that injuries are legit (I'm not sure how they could do this with certainty), there's not much that can be done about it. Teams that run the no-huddle will just have to line up and play.

Doesn't compute. The no-huddle is not a sham, or "pretending" to be a regular offensive set. It works within the parameters of time allotment. In fact, it's the antithesis of why the play clock was put in place - to keep teams from sitting on the ball too long when they have possession. Faking injuries is using deception based on a player's well-being, which many of the rules are in place to protect.

However, the NCAA is never going to make a rule on this because - imagine this - of money. The no-huddle has kept networks from cutting to commercial breaks as often. Phony injuries give the networks an excuse to cut to said commercials. The NCAA is in the back pocket of the networks because they are complete whores, and they will keep their network pimps happy.

[yermom]

seems about the same as fouling at the end of a basketball game

the NCAA already did make a rule about this, didn't they? they have to sit out a play, right?

maybe they should charge you with a timeout like in the NFL

[SoonerNutt]

If you really take a step back and be honest about it, the no huddle hurry-up offense itself is sort of a gimmick in itself. Nothing illegal about it at all, but it has been a successful strategy for the teams that have used it because it messes with the rhythm of the defense and limits substitutions. Faking injuries is the strategy that teams have come up with to counter the fast pace of the no-huddle. Nothing illegal about that either and it's difficult to refute. Short of the NCAA implementing some kind of rule change to ensure that injuries are legit (I'm not sure how they could do this with certainty), there's not much that can be done about it. Teams that run the no-huddle will just have to line up and play.

I don't really see no-huddle as a gimmick, but more as a logical progression of the game.

Used to, QBs called the plays. Now, it's rare for that to happen. Everybody can look to the sideline and get the call now, so why even have a huddle?

There isn't anything dishonest about it either. That's the big difference between faking an injury and using a no-huddle.

I do think it would be a good idea to put some sort of rule in place. Sitting out the rest of a series rather than just one play would be a good start.

[aero]

I didn't know Oregon played Texas A&M this year.

[unbiasedtruth]

Pokes faked injuries, cramps, in the 2008 game in Stillwater.

[CowboyMRW]

Pokes faked injuries, cramps, in the 2008 game in Stillwater.

Well damn. We was tired :D and your offense was sick.

Many heads up to Sam as the flip got me into Sports Illustrated photo of the year :D

[soonerbrat]

Pokes faked injuries, cramps, in the 2008 game in Stillwater.

i think some defenses have done that this year too to try to slow down the hurry up offense and be able to sub players.

[KantoSooner]

Two quick points:
First, kickers faking contact is vaguely legit...because they're kickers, after all, and because it's been going on so long it's become part of the game.
Second, you can't really control the other players, so the refs will treat it more like punting out of bounds. Ever notice how the spot of said ball is 5-10 yards further up the field than the actual point at which it crossed the sideline? Kind of a little unofficial action to discourage being a pansy.
I foresee much the same thing on flopping. The refs just won't be able to 'see' the next several fouls committed against you. Not pretty, but that would pretty well handle the situation.

[Leroy Lizard]

I foresee much the same thing on flopping. The refs just won't be able to 'see' the next several fouls committed against you. Not pretty, but that would pretty well handle the situation.

That would not handle the situation. No player is going to risk a 15-yard penalty on his team because he thinks the refs might not care if he gouges the opposing players' eyes. (And you have to hope that all the refs feel the same way.) And if he did, the refs will simply throw the flag on him anyway. How many times does the second cheap shot get penalized rather than the initial cheap shot? And the same thing will happen here.

If this is truly a problem, then there needs to be a solution. If it isn't a problem, ignore it. But to hope that there will be some sort of divine retribution down the road for those faking injuries is like hoping that a mass murderer is tormented by his actions. "Sure, we never punished him, but that's okay because I am sure he feels really, really feels bad about what he's done." :rolleyes:

[Dan Thompson]

OMG I've never heard of such a thing!

[Leroy Lizard]

OMG I've never heard of such a thing!

:confused:

[KantoSooner]

If this is truly a problem, then there needs to be a solution. If it isn't a problem, ignore it.

And here we reach the crux of the biscuit, so to speak. Leroy, posing as the latter day love child of Cotton Mather.
I think we can all agree that faking injury is a problem. Maybe not a big one, but one need only watch the Italians play soccer to realize what it easily could become.
Soooooo, a rule, we need a rule. Hmmmm. We've already got one - you're injured you have to sit out a play before coming back. Somehow doesn't seem to be enough. Okay, we'll up it and suspend you for a quarter or whatever. Hmmm, maybe that's too much for each and every guy who gets the wind knocked out of him for real.
The problem is not in 'the crime' or 'the punishment' but in knowing when an injury is legit and when it's not. The answer? You don't, can't and won't ever know for sure. Pain is invisible. Result? No rule and no punishment is ever going to really work. Like much of life, it's in that fuzzy logic/gray zone.
And thus, I prefer fuzzy logic/grey work-arounds. I like your example. You're right, nobody would eye gouge later in the game thinking he had a freebie. And that's a good thing; because, among other reasons, eye gouging is a very bad thing to do. But could the ref overlook an offsides? Could he award a pass completion to a pass that might otherwise have been waved off incomplete (thus creating the 'on the field ruling' against which a replay would have to be conclusive, if a replay was called.)? In the words of Mr. Roberts, 'Sure he could'.
Most of life works far, far better without over-legalizing things.

[oudavid1]

Oregon, shut up.

[Leroy Lizard]

The problem is not in 'the crime' or 'the punishment' but in knowing when an injury is legit and when it's not. The answer? You don't, can't and won't ever know for sure. Pain is invisible. Result? No rule and no punishment is ever going to really work. Like much of life, it's in that fuzzy logic/gray zone.
And thus, I prefer fuzzy logic/grey work-arounds. I like your example. You're right, nobody would eye gouge later in the game thinking he had a freebie. And that's a good thing; because, among other reasons, eye gouging is a very bad thing to do. But could the ref overlook an offsides? Could he award a pass completion to a pass that might otherwise have been waved off incomplete (thus creating the 'on the field ruling' against which a replay would have to be conclusive, if a replay was called.)? In the words of Mr. Roberts, 'Sure he could'.
Most of life works far, far better without over-legalizing things.

How in the Hell you can equate "overlooking an off-sides penalty" with "life working" is beyond me.

If it's a problem, we need a solution so that we DON'T have refs overlooking penalties.

If there is no solution, it just becomes a part of the game and ignored, much like the play-acting performed by punters (which IS unethical). Yes, players will feign injury to slow down a fast-paced offense. Tough ****. If a coach doesn't like it, he can simply install a slower paced offense, much like the 90% of the teams in the country.

Frankly, having a player sit out a series WOULD work and would NOT be overly severe. So why not just adopt it? Otherwise, ignore it and consider it part of defensive strategy.

[osucowboy344]

Did any of you guys catch the Oregon/Stanford game earlier this year? Chip Kelly whined like the biggest ***** I have ever seen. I hate OREGON.....they are the biggest bunch of babies when they are losing. Their coach is a big excuse maker too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh6OKGOtDf4

[fdubzou]

Oregon Duck cheating irks Oklahoma fans.

[osucowboy344]

Oregon Duck cheating irks Oklahoma fans.

Not an OU fan but I agree with this.

[KantoSooner]

How in the Hell you can equate "overlooking an off-sides penalty" with "life working" is beyond me. .

God, how I enjoy this.

Follow closely (reference to the original is permitted).

When you immediately leapt to the conclusion that allowing the officiating staff leeway to redress unethical (but otherwise unpenalizeable <which word I hereby patent>) behaviour by suggesting that flopping must be repaid by allowing someone to get a free maiming of his opponent, I pointed out that such was neither demanded nor ineluctably implied. Instead, the crew could simply, so to speak, exercise positive bias against the guilty party for a while until the lad 'got the message' and stopped his nonsense.

I then compared such a 'system' to daily life, in which, mostly, legal codes, technical regulations and such play a, happily, small part. Mostly societies get along quite well through the use of extra-legal solutions such as avoiding *******s or negative situations. Thus crappy, but not legally fraudulent, businesses tend to go out of business, for instance. And *******s tend to drink alone. Life is a series of work arounds, mostly, rather than dramatic police car chases or court cases.

Dots connected?

[Leroy Lizard]

God, how I enjoy this.

Follow closely (reference to the original is permitted).

When you immediately leapt to the conclusion that allowing the officiating staff leeway to redress unethical (but otherwise unpenalizeable <which word I hereby patent>) behaviour by suggesting that flopping must be repaid by allowing someone to get a free maiming of his opponent, I pointed out that such was neither demanded nor ineluctably implied. Instead, the crew could simply, so to speak, exercise positive bias against the guilty party for a while until the lad 'got the message' and stopped his nonsense.

How would the lad get the message if no one informs him that the totally bull**** calls being laid out are on account of his behavior?

Besides, refs are not going to call make-up calls on account of a perceived faked injury. I certainly wouldn't as a ref, and I doubt many others would either. Why would I take a chance on ruining my reputation as a good referee? How would I even know for sure that the player wasn't really injured?

Finally, consider this point: Teams have been faking injuries to slow the clock down since football was invented, especially at the pro level on offense when the clock is winding down. Bogus penalties have done nothing to stop it because refs don't engage in such behavior.

Ergo, your argument is nothing more than wishful thinking.


I then compared such a 'system' to daily life, in which, mostly, legal codes, technical regulations and such play a, happily, small part. Mostly societies get along quite well through the use of extra-legal solutions such as avoiding *******s or negative situations. Thus crappy, but not legally fraudulent, businesses tend to go out of business, for instance.

I will leave it up to other posters to indicate whether they think that most big businesses like Microsoft act ethically. You will probably get challenged on that point.

[KantoSooner]

I'll stick with the key ponts here 'Roy:

1. Flopping is a problem. Watch Premier League soccer if you want to see what it can turn into.
2. You can't regulate it successfully through hard and fast rules.
3. You can control it to some degree through creative reffing, and at least in most other sports refs have an ambit of discretion without any damage to their reps.
4. Life is grey rather than bright lines. Your indirect slagging of corporate America makes my point for me: is every actor an angel? of course not. And neither are an army of D.A.'s running around with whistles required. People more or less know what's going on; and dickheads tend to get treated like dickheads, whether rules are invoked or cops are called. Life kind of mushes on.

[Leroy Lizard]

I'll stick with the key ponts here 'Roy:

1. Flopping is a problem. Watch Premier League soccer if you want to see what it can turn into.
2. You can't regulate it successfully through hard and fast rules.
3. You can control it to some degree through creative reffing, and at least in most other sports refs have an ambit of discretion without any damage to their reps.
4. Life is grey rather than bright lines. Your indirect slagging of corporate America makes my point for me: is every actor an angel? of course not. And neither are an army of D.A.'s running around with whistles required. People more or less know what's going on; and dickheads tend to get treated like dickheads, whether rules are invoked or cops are called. Life kind of mushes on.

Point by point:

1. Is flopping a problem? If it is, it has been a problem for a very long time with no solution. Yet we haven't turned into Italians.

2. Your statement that you can't regulate flopping through hard and fast rules is unsupported. As I said before, make a flopper leave the game for an entire series and that would curtail the activity a whole bunch.

3. The notion that a ref will throw a bogus flag is popular among fans, but it is totally a fantasy. Refs' calls are reviewed each week and they're not going to compromise their ability to work future games (their livelihood) to avenge a fake injury. These are professionals who make good money and have families to support. They don't give a **** if a player is flopping. Put a rule in and they will care.

4. Your last point contains a lot of words but is completely irrelevant because of the prior three points above.

To summarize: "Don't worry, they'll get their comeuppance someday" is not a strategy and not a solution.

[badger]

My beloved aunt and uncle are Oregon resident hippies. While my aunt is a UO grad (for any Pokes lurking - that's University of Oregon, not your pet name for us!), she never has struck me as a football fan... till these past few seasons. I sent them roses last year for Christmas... bout a week before Ohio State finally won the Rose Bowl :D

[rainiersooner]

Faking injuries is weak.

I hope we would never do it.

I agree.

BUT...on the other hand, I find everything about Oregon, including their bandwagon fans, to be so offensive, that I must ask myself which is the lesser of two evils: Oregon in toto or faking injuries. And if the latter is done to defeat the former, is it not morally justified in much the same way as dropping the bomb on Hiroshima? ;)

[rainiersooner]

Can Leroy and Kanto get their own room??

[Leroy Lizard]

Can Leroy and Kanto get their own room??

I wouldn't worry about it. It looks like Kanto is no longer enjoying arguing with Leroy Lizard.

[GKeeper316]

you guys keep comparing faking an injury in college football to "flopping" in soccer. the correct term in soccer is "diving" by the way...

in football, if you fake an injury to intentionally slow play, the only penalty is that you have to sit out a play before you can return to the field. in soccer, if the ref thinks you took a dive to intentionally slow the play of the game, you get a yellow card. a dive in your own penalty box gets you thrown out of the game.

these are 2 very very different games, and comparing the rules of each, isnt at all fair.

also, in soccer, the ref awards additional time to be played at the end of the game based on how much play stoppage actually occurred during regulation time.

[Leroy Lizard]

you guys keep comparing faking an injury in college football to "flopping" in soccer. the correct term in soccer is "diving" by the way...

in football, if you fake an injury to intentionally slow play, the only penalty is that you have to sit out a play before you can return to the field. in soccer, if the ref thinks you took a dive to intentionally slow the play of the game, you get a yellow card. a dive in your own penalty box gets you thrown out of the game.

these are 2 very very different games, and comparing the rules of each, isnt at all fair.

also, in soccer, the ref awards additional time to be played at the end of the game based on how much play stoppage actually occurred during regulation time.

Stop.

That's as much as I want to know about soccer.

[yermom]

the problem is, you can't prove they are faking, really.

if a player is having enough trouble walking that they have to stop play more than once, they probably shouldn't be on the field for their safety, IMO

it's not that flopped players are penalized by having to sit out a play, "injured" players have to sit out to discourage flopping

if your defender is gassed and needs to sub out, what does it hurt to have him take a dive and fake cramps in the mechanics of the game? if the rule doesn't discourage flopping enough, it probably should be tweaked if it's abused. the new clock rules that spawned the recent offensive changes are just now making this more of an issue than it used to be.

[CincySooner]

Correct, but you do not get credit because you didn't show your work on how you came up with the answer.

No work required... bacon is always the answer.

[KantoSooner]

I wouldn't worry about it. It looks like Kanto is no longer enjoying arguing with Leroy Lizard.

Sorry, had to go eat dinner, watch teevee, paddle my tadge, sleep. Now back at the screen.

Rightee, 'Roy, I give in. You're right on all counts. There should be rules for all things and for all things a judge. I would favor instant replay on every event in life.

I take it from previous posts that you are in academia?

Enjoy your victory.

[delhalew]

Does anybody remember the "fainting" Irish? Apparently, they were excoriated and the NCAA only held off on making a rule because coaches made a gentlemans agreement not to fake injury that held up til recent times.

[Leroy Lizard]

Sorry, had to go eat dinner, watch teevee, paddle my tadge, sleep. Now back at the screen.

Rightee, 'Roy, I give in. You're right on all counts. There should be rules for all things and for all things a judge. I would favor instant replay on every event in life.

I take it from previous posts that you are in academia?

Enjoy your victory.

This is the guy who enjoys arguing with me. :rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

Does anybody remember the "fainting" Irish? Apparently, they were excoriated and the NCAA only held off on making a rule because coaches made a gentlemans agreement not to fake injury that held up til recent times.

That was back in the 1950s? Something like that. No, I don't remember it.

[KantoSooner]

This is the guy who enjoys arguing with me. :rolleyes:

You I love to argue with. It was apparent, however, that the rest of the sentient world had tired of our little games. Next time I'm through Normal, America, I'll get in touch and we can go bore a bar somewhere in town.

[Leroy Lizard]

You I love to argue with. It was apparent, however, that the rest of the sentient world had tired of our little games.

Sure. :rolleyes: Whatever you say.

[soonerchk]

Make em walk it off unless there's a bone sticking out!!!

[sooneron]

Correct, but you do not get credit because you didn't show your work on how you came up with the answer.

He ^ used to send me durty spek!:D

[osucowboy344]

leroy...you seem like a cool OU fan. What is wrong with people?:D

[Leroy Lizard]

leroy...you seem like a cool OU fan. What is wrong with people?:D

You see, everyone? Told ya' I was cool. And this is coming from an OSU fan.

Crap, that doesn't exactly strengthen my case. That's okay, I'll just delete it before Collier sees it. Usually late at night I don't have to worry about olevet or StoopTroup, but that SOB is probably still up. Let's see, where is the delete key... oh, no! What did I do?!?!