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View Full Version : Breaking down Front 6 on TT two big run plays


Sam.England
11/15/2010, 12:55 PM
Im not JKM, but people loved his breakdown of plays, so decided to focus on TT two big run plays up the gut.

First I broke a nice QB run up the middle play up to set up the score....

TT go big with 6 Linemen and 1 TE, bring the motion guy across to look like he is taking the hand off.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/1-1.jpg

However, Nelson sticks to his man, and Jefferson has outside contain which would blow that up... QB is going to keep it and run middle

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/2-1.jpg

Changed view to show closer in. As you can see this is where the ball is when the first person reacts to the snap.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/3-1.jpg

The D line is very slow to get off the mark. As you can see we only have 1 D-line engaged with the other 3 still having hand on the floor by the time the QB almost has the ball.. In contrast the 3 linemen on the left hand side are all flowing across to the middle

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/4-1.jpg

Jefferson and Lewis are going full steam ahead to stop the run, Box is still on his heels reading the play. All D line engaged now. (As the red lines show, doesnt matter who Box or Wort there is lineman to take away both LB's on most plays)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/5-1.jpg

Does not look a lot of room. (Notice double team on Beal at the bottom). Nelson is still following his man, which then takes him away from a position to stop the play. Box gets an O-lineman in his face and pushing him away from the play

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/6-1.jpg

Pretty blanket blocking from TT, noone can get off a block. Only 1 double team, and thats on Beal still... everyone else is 1 on 1

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/7-1.jpg

Jefferson seems to get flat footed and almost stops, Nelson is still getting dragged out, before he tries to change direction to come back to the middle. All the circled guys are getting well and truely beaten by their men.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/8.jpg

Still, we have 3 guys in the secondary all who look like they can make the stop.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/9.jpg

Nope, he finally gets taken down to at the 3 yard line for a BIG gain right up the gut!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/10.jpg





Second Play - Trips Left, Read by the QB

The RB comes in from the right hand side, and will run the white line route up the middle.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/Untitled-1copy.jpg

Travis starts to move towards LOS, Box is looking off the QB.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/Untitled-2copy.jpg

T.Lewis reads run, and goes charging at the Centre...all lineman 1 on 1 with the Oline. Box focus changes to his assignment, the WR.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/Untitled-3copy.jpg

Watching the video, the Oline really blew up T.Lewis here, as you can see he is being stood up. Chose this as this is the time Box's head goes back to the QB/RB and the ball has already been handed off, RB charging.

D line has really been moved into the positions the Oline wanted to create a running lane.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/Untitled-4copy.jpg

Noone is shaking a block, leaving a lane. Box is starting to make way to middle, but in hindsight, maybe should have taken a different angle more along the line than the lines added showing his path.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/Untitled-5copy.jpg

The blur in the picture is Carter.... he comes in and could make the play.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/Untitled-6copy.jpg

However, a combination of the blocker driving Lewis into him, and him running into the back of T.Lewis, takes both of them out the play.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/Untitled-7copy.jpg

Carter, T & R Lewis & Box all behind the play, leaving a foot race down the middle, with their RB in full stride and our guys cathcing up

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/Untitled-8copy.jpg

We catch him up, but 30 yards down the field!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/OCC/Untitled-9copy.jpg


I'm sure people will have different ideas on the plays than I have, but its all good to discuss as this is something, esp against OSU that could come to haunt us!
AlboSooner
11/15/2010, 01:09 PM
Nice breakdown. We need some help in the D-Line, especially at the tackle position. D-ends have played well for the most part, but the tackle position and LB position have been the weak links of this D, imo.
Okie35
11/15/2010, 01:50 PM
1st play Nelson took a bad angle, it happens. The 2nd play Lewis got held. The lineman's hands aren't inside. I know the refs won't call it all the time. Travis didn't engage w/ him first though which he should've. Carter also took a bad angle. They're human it happens, you can't be sound on every play.
schoonerdriver
11/15/2010, 02:17 PM
My problem with the first play is with Frank. He allows one man to get into his legs. If he uses his hands, he could have squeezed the whole and stopped the play or the ball is handed off and Jefferson and Nelson are in position to stretch the play to the sideline. Go back to the A&M game inthe first quarter we have them backed up inside the 5, they runa zone read and he gets cut by one man leaving a huge whole that the rb found.
SouthFortySooner
11/15/2010, 02:40 PM
45-7
kbsooner21
11/15/2010, 02:46 PM
45-7

Thanks for the contribution to the thread. Excellent insight.
LittleElmSooner
11/15/2010, 02:51 PM
The thing to notice on the first play is that it is the "Wildcat" formation. You have about a 95% chance that it will be a run in 2 areas: handoff to the motion man or a zone read by the running back.

In the Wildcat, the D should be aware of the formation type and really ratchet down on the run....
oudavid1
11/15/2010, 03:14 PM
As an aspiring coach, i wouldnt have expected a hand-off for the jet sweep on 3rd and 1. I figured they would run right at us.
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
11/15/2010, 04:37 PM
the line looks pretty good in both of those series. they give no ground and for the most part hold their rush lanes. the problem is pretty much all on our linebackers. who are being met in the defensive backfield and then chicken fight with the OL.
SoonerAtKU
11/15/2010, 04:51 PM
As an aspiring coach, i wouldnt have expected a hand-off for the jet sweep on 3rd and 1. I figured they would run right at us.

Then it seems like once in a while, it might be a good idea to run that jet sweep against a coach like yourself. This is the problem that Texas fans have with Greg Davis. He runs the "appropriate" play at the "appropriate" down and distance. God forbid he run a pump-fake or play-action the lead or iso on 2nd and 1 or 2. You might put yourself in GASP...3rd and 2!!! Horror of horrors.
NormanPride
11/15/2010, 05:01 PM
Box looks like he's out of practice in game situations, which is what you'd expect since he's missed so much. Hopefully the next couple of games will get him ready for OSU in case Wort is out a long time.

So jkm, in your opinion is it the talent or coaching that makes our LBs much less able to fight in the muck?
cvsooner
11/15/2010, 05:07 PM
I'm not JKM, but my opinion is it's mostly talent. I can't imagine the coaches haven't been over and over and OVER this with these guys. Plus, look at the successes, like Calmus, Marshall, Lofton...even Reynolds. Those guys made it work.
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
11/15/2010, 05:21 PM
I'm not JKM, but my opinion is it's mostly talent. I can't imagine the coaches haven't been over and over and OVER this with these guys. Plus, look at the successes, like Calmus, Marshall, Lofton...even Reynolds. Those guys made it work.

i agree and disagree. what we've seen over stoops' tenure is that players tend to play to the level of the talent on the other side of the ball in spring practice. it has never turned out well for us when the defensive front 7 is "strong" and the OL is weak. if, however, the OL has been strong our defensive front 7 has been generally stronger than expected. so from that standpoint, our lack of OL talent has caused some of this.

and then there is the disagreement part -> have you ever been around a guy who just would not listen? travis lewis strikes me as that type of player. if you went up and asked him how he graded himself against tech it would be 110%.

[as an aside, reynolds was pretty bad his first 3 years. while it may be the first time i've broken these plays down for the board, i've done this before]
proudsoonergal
11/15/2010, 06:00 PM
Sam, thanks for diagramming the plays!
NormanPride
11/15/2010, 06:02 PM
Did you go back and look at that "perfect" game he had? I was curious about what made it so perfect.
OUthunder
11/15/2010, 06:05 PM
I was sitting in the North endzone when they broke that 1st long run and Lewis got owned by the OL. Holding or not, a great LB (like Lewis thinks he is) finds a way to shed that block or at worst disrupt the play for a lesser gain.

On the first run play, Box didn't react and took a bad angle, so did the other guy though.

Without a really good DL like we had last year, it really shows our weakness at the LB spot.
toast
11/15/2010, 06:48 PM
The thing to notice on the first play is that it is the "Wildcat" formation. You have about a 95% chance that it will be a run in 2 areas: handoff to the motion man or a zone read by the running back.

In the Wildcat, the D should be aware of the formation type and really ratchet down on the run....

On the first play above (wildcat formation) we had 9 guys in the box, can't commit any more...T.Lewis once again lost gap integrity and got pushed inside.
BoulderSooner79
11/15/2010, 07:25 PM
The other team schemes and executes too - they are going to get some plays. You could find a few plays each game against the best defense in the country where they get gashed for a big gain. I'm not saying it's not instructive to break down what happens, but there is no way to stop it 100% of the time if the OC calls the right play sequence and the offense executes.
Sam.England
11/15/2010, 08:46 PM
The other team schemes and executes too - they are going to get some plays. You could find a few plays each game against the best defense in the country where they get gashed for a big gain. I'm not saying it's not instructive to break down what happens, but there is no way to stop it 100% of the time if the OC calls the right play sequence and the offense executes.

I agree totally. Every game, every team gets beaten badly on a few plays, if thats just by one player messing up, a superior scheme or luck. But when you stop looking and accept that, its when we get plonked down on our asses again.

TT executed well on these plays for the most part, got in the key blocks and got fotunate on a couple of things, but for the most post, we executed better or well enough to limit the big plays, which we have struggled to do at times in the season!

Its more for a discussion than anything else :)
oudavid1
11/15/2010, 08:50 PM
Then it seems like once in a while, it might be a good idea to run that jet sweep against a coach like yourself. This is the problem that Texas fans have with Greg Davis. He runs the "appropriate" play at the "appropriate" down and distance. God forbid he run a pump-fake or play-action the lead or iso on 2nd and 1 or 2. You might put yourself in GASP...3rd and 2!!! Horror of horrors.

haha bring it on!
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
11/15/2010, 09:42 PM
The other team schemes and executes too - they are going to get some plays. You could find a few plays each game against the best defense in the country where they get gashed for a big gain. I'm not saying it's not instructive to break down what happens, but there is no way to stop it 100% of the time if the OC calls the right play sequence and the offense executes.

generally, what makes a great defense is that at any point the offense can attack there are 1-2 guys who can beat the man in front of them. our problem is that we have some positions where players get beat by the player in front of them 90% of the time. i'm being serious when i say that i don't think i've ever seen an OU defense this porous in the middle of the field.
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
11/15/2010, 09:43 PM
Did you go back and look at that "perfect" game he had? I was curious about what made it so perfect.

that game spoke more for tyrone willingham than it did for ryan reynolds. they never blocked him the entire game and 1/2 the time ran right at him. he got a perfect score because he was playing against air the entire game.
BoulderSooner79
11/16/2010, 12:06 AM
generally, what makes a great defense is that at any point the offense can attack there are 1-2 guys who can beat the man in front of them. our problem is that we have some positions where players get beat by the player in front of them 90% of the time. i'm being serious when i say that i don't think i've ever seen an OU defense this porous in the middle of the field.

90% doesn't seem a reasonable claim - at least for the game in question. If that were so, TT would have attacked where they were having 90% success and managed more than 7 points. Now if you want to replay the 2nd half of the Cincy game...
dwarthog
11/16/2010, 08:36 AM
Wonderful stuff! Thanks for sharing.
SoonerAtKU
11/16/2010, 10:22 AM
Well, if you have a DT getting beaten 75-80% of the time, there's enough talent around him to cover that up a bit. If a CB was getting beaten like some of our DTs are, we'd be giving up 40 pts. a game, all through the air.
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
11/16/2010, 11:45 AM
Well, if you have a DT getting beaten 75-80% of the time, there's enough talent around him to cover that up a bit. If a CB was getting beaten like some of our DTs are, we'd be giving up 40 pts. a game, all through the air.

this is what i keep trying to say - our DTs aren't getting beat, its our linebackers. lewis when he is blocked loses 80-90% of the time when he is on the road, around 50% of the time when he is at home.

neither one of these screenshots shows DTs being beat, it shows DTs that can be semi-neutralized 1 on 1. now, if we are going to get into "our DTs should be so talented they demand a double team on every down". i guess i can agree with you, but i'm more realistic about our chances to keep those guys on the roster. we've only had one such DT last more than 3 years - dvoracek.
SoonerAtKU
11/16/2010, 12:18 PM
I can see your point, certainly. I guess we're just used to having at least one of the two DTs that can command a double-team. The reality is that if neither one can, then that is an extra hat unaccounted for directly up the middle, or a pulling guard who gets out to the second level with no trouble.

Couple that with LBs who can't get free of a guard when they engage and...
NormanPride
11/16/2010, 12:24 PM
DTs that draw double teams every play don't stick around. Their timelines are so short as it is they have to get paid.

And I really wish Lewis would shut the hell up and work hard these last couple games. It's the last few he's going to be playing in the Crimson and Cream, so show some damn pride.