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oldkoot
11/11/2010, 12:46 PM
Standing Up for Coaches Patton and Wilson

Dear fellow Sooners, some of us old timers have been watching the greatness of OU football for many, many years. I have been a Sooner since 1954, and I am certain there are more like me, and others who have been Sooners longer than I have.

Right now, in my opinion James Patton is the best O Line Coach we have ever had. Bar none, and I go back to the Gomer Jones - Bud Wilkinson days. By this I mean that he is placing more linemen into the NFL than any other O line Coach we have ever had. This should help with our Recruiting as well, but for some reason it does not seem to be doing so, but that is a different story.

I can all too well remember WHEN WE DID NOT HAVE AN O LINEMAN IN THE NFL. That really made it hard when we tried to recruit big time O Linemen. That has all changed, but it is still hard to recruit big time linemen on a consistent basis. Why? Until we are able to recruit the top notch type of O Linemen on a constant basis and have not only great starters but great back up players, we should not be too critical. Ask yourselves why we have had a major problem the past 10 or so years in bringing capable O Linemen as starters and backups? Why cannot a program like OU bring in the proper O linemen so as to have not only great starters but back ups as well? We must realize this, the KICKING CAME IS NOT OUR ONLY MAJOR PROBLEM. This O line problem goes further back than before Coaches Hayes left.

Let us remember that is very difficult with the limited time for coaches to work with their players, to have outstanding pass blockers and run blockers at the same time. I do not know why we are going with more athletic linemen this year, this would seem to favor more and better run blocking than pass blocking. I think the line coach is developing linemen for future run blocking that is not being taken full advantage of this season, and that is another story.

Patton has more than proved his value as our O line Coach. Before anyone should condemn him, they need to find out why he is not able to do all the recruiting for the O line position? Who is in charge of this part of the OU way of recruiting? In my opinion this needs to change. Until Patton can recruit his own players, the ones he wants, until that happens, he is not fully responsible for the O line. It is just like asking a chief to prepare a delicious stake supper using lips and a-h….s rather than steak. I am not downgrading any of our players, just using that as an illustration. Coach Patton needs to be in total charge of the O Line. Right now it seems he is not. Once he is in charge of the entire line, not only coaching it but recruiting for it, then someone else needs to be the target of why we are in the position we are in on the O line. Who is responsible for not allowing the position coaches to recruit their own recruits? Find that person and you have the answer.

Concerning coach Wilson, let me be one of the first to admit that I have called for his firing many times, but let me also admit that I may have been wrong in doing this. UNTIL COACH WILSON HAS THE TYPE OF QB IN THE GAME THAT HE NEEDS AND LIKES THEN HE IS LIMITED IN HIS TYPE OF GAME PLANING AND CALLING PLAYS IN THE ACTUAL GAME. I know he is taking the heat for the terrible showing against TAM inside the red zone. I understand, but why is this? I know because it did not work. Okay, what about if we had a mobile QB in the game during those times and other coming times? Did we not see what Allen did against Colorado? Why was not Allen in the game after the first set of failed attempts? Who kept Allen out of the game under those conditions? Remember the way that Florida used Tebow his first year? Who is keeping us from having a two QB system?

What I am saying is that Coach Wilson is not given the freedom to use the type of QB that he wants to use in his system. In the Big 10 Coach Wilson was very successful with what he had, when he was allowed to use his own type of QB. He should be given that chance here at OU. Right now someone is forcing us to have a mutant Big 10 system in place and it is not Coach Wilson.

Yes, we do certainly need coaching changes and quickly as well, but I really don’t think it needs to be either Patton or Wilson. I am not against Coach Josh either. He has IT as proven by his leading us to the NC. He has IT and should be our next HC very soon.

diegosooner
11/11/2010, 12:54 PM
The offensive coordinator doesn't choose who plays on offense? I honestly did not know that.

Leroy Lizard
11/11/2010, 01:02 PM
The offensive coordinator doesn't choose who plays on offense? I honestly did not know that.

KW told the press just a few days ago that he doesn't determine who comes in at RB. I assume the same holds for the other positions.

oldkoot
11/11/2010, 02:13 PM
The offensive coordinator doesn't choose who plays on offense? I honestly did not know that.

Yes, this was shocking to me also. It seems like that Coach Wilson does not know who is in at any time, so he just calls plays, might show why some of his calls are way off. There seems to be a large communications gap going on and our present problems may be magnifying these problems even more. Sad.

Yes, I think this is for the other positions as well. I think that Allen might have been much better inside the 5 yard line that what we had, but cannot be sure until that happens. I like the idea of the 2 QB system for such times.

StoopTroup
11/11/2010, 02:16 PM
http://images.memegenerator.net/Wise-Confucius/ImageMacro/2576855/Man-who-jump-off-cliff-JUMP-TO-CONCLUSION.jpg

StoopTroup
11/11/2010, 02:19 PM
That stake supper got me drooling for some lunch.

oldkoot
11/11/2010, 02:22 PM
That stake supper got me drooling for some lunch.

I know, those lips and ahs are really looking good now.....

PalmBeachSooner
11/11/2010, 02:45 PM
KW told the press just a few days ago that he doesn't determine who comes in at RB. I assume the same holds for the other positions.

Maybe he should wait until he knows what personnel he has to work with before he calls a stinking play.

PalmBeachSooner
11/11/2010, 02:46 PM
The offensive coordinator doesn't choose who plays on offense? I honestly did not know that.

...or not.

StoopTroup
11/11/2010, 02:53 PM
Does determining who is in equal to how he calls the play. Does KW not have eyes or know who's out there? I damn sure didn't get that from this thread.

Take easy on those melons of your's fellas.

http://www.advicesisters.com/Features/stress.gif

Leroy Lizard
11/11/2010, 03:02 PM
Yes, this was shocking to me also. It seems like that Coach Wilson does not know who is in at any time, so he just calls plays, might show why some of his calls are way off. There seems to be a large communications gap going on and our present problems may be magnifying these problems even more. Sad.

Back up a second here. I imagine that on most teams when the OC sits up a mile above the field that he doesn't choose which players come in. I would think that you would garner a million illegal substitution penalties if he did.

BS designed the system and he's been around a while. If he wants the coaches on the sidelines determining who comes in and out, I am sure that is a wise move and probably the norm.

Leroy Lizard
11/11/2010, 03:04 PM
Maybe he should wait until he knows what personnel he has to work with before he calls a stinking play.

That would work if QBs had microphones in their helmets. Or do you like delay of game flags?

Scott D
11/11/2010, 03:08 PM
One could legitimately argue that from the press box he should be able to see what personnel are on the field. Another could argue that the problem with calling the offense from the press box is running a no huddle offense. Maybe the solution should be for John Nimmo to stand on the sideline holding goofy four part signs as to what the play calls are rather than having the coaches run 3 sets of hand signals like they're 3rd base coaches.

Leroy Lizard
11/11/2010, 03:11 PM
One could legitimately argue that from the press box he should be able to see what personnel are on the field. Another could argue that the problem with calling the offense from the press box is running a no huddle offense. Maybe the solution should be for John Nimmo to stand on the sideline holding goofy four part signs as to what the play calls are rather than having the coaches run 3 sets of hand signals like they're 3rd base coaches.

I don't see a problem that needs fixing. We have had a few instances where the offense got confused over the play call, but that happens to all teams. Nothing out of the ordinary.

cyclonesooner
11/11/2010, 04:17 PM
Still, in no way does all of that info excuse calling 3 straight running play with time running out and a chance to tie the game. Puh-leeeeeez

soonercastor
11/11/2010, 05:48 PM
You're flipping out even worse than the people that were calling for Wilson's head. And you do NOT have to crown someone the best of all time just to defend him.

Jdog
11/11/2010, 06:10 PM
Best O-line coach at OU was BS, other wise known as the "KING" back in 1966.
I say this because he went on to be our Head coach and won 3 national champion. It don't get no better than that!!!

oldkoot
11/11/2010, 07:10 PM
Best O-line coach at OU was BS, other wise known as the "KING" back in 1966.
I say this because he went on to be our Head coach and won 3 national champion. It don't get no better than that!!!

Very good point.

gaylordfan1
11/11/2010, 07:41 PM
Wait a second, did I read that the people are calling for Allen for the redzone? Am I the only one that thinks this is flat out stupid? Allen is not a mobile QB. I was drunk and can't remember the entire CU game, esp the 4th quarter, but didn't he just have a 4 yard TD run? Thats it? This is the argument to have Allen in within the 5? I would prefer having a running back run the ball in the redzone. Let me be specific bc I know we didn't get it in in multiple attempts the other night.... I would prefer having a RB run the ball vs. any of our QB's in that situation (maybe Bell, but who knows if he would be ready). I think we should have passed the ball or tried a little Finch to the outside. And I would especially want LJ passing the ball in the redzone over Allen. Sorry for the rant...

Leroy Lizard
11/11/2010, 08:00 PM
Wait a second, did I read that the people are calling for Allen for the redzone? Am I the only one that thinks this is flat out stupid?

Of course. But when ranting about coaching decisions, when does sanity enter the discussion?

mightysooner
11/12/2010, 07:20 PM
I have no issues with Patton. His results don't lie. He's put quite a few linemen in the league for a reason. I think the group we have now, quite simply, just aren't very good and probably never will be. It happens....which is why we need to grab a couple of JUCO tackles for next year. At least one.

As for Wilson, he isn't quite as terrible as some say he is, but he's nowhere NEAR as good as most people think he is either. I can't think of one OC anywhere in the nation that has removed all aspects of play action and misdirection from his offensive game plan, especially with a sucky O-line. He doesn't make the most of the talent he has either. Not utilizing Broyles in space on end-arounds, with Murray in the backfield, is criminally stupid. So is not using misdirection and play action when your line sucks. Getting stuffed three times in one game inside the five for calling the same play over and over isn't indicative of remarkable skill either.

AlboSooner
11/12/2010, 07:33 PM
the white knight is strong with this one.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
11/12/2010, 07:48 PM
as forWilson, he isn't quite as terrible as some say he is, but he's nowhere NEAR as good as most people think he is either. I can't think of one OC anywhere in the nation that has removed all aspects of play action and misdirection from his offensive game plan, especially with a sucky O-line.

absolutes always come back to bite you. i diagrammed one random pass play in the aTm game and it ended up being a play action pass.

Leroy Lizard
11/12/2010, 08:11 PM
absolutes always come back to bite you. i diagrammed one random pass play in the aTm game and it ended up being a play action pass.

Yeah, and didn't we run a reverse that got stuffed? Can't recall.

The Maestro
11/12/2010, 08:40 PM
Just because we have more offensive lineman going pro doesn't necessarily mean Patton is the greatest OL coach. It might be we have signed some great recruits. Hell, Joe Dickinson could have been the running back coach when AD was there and AD would still be in the NFL today.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
11/12/2010, 09:04 PM
Yeah, and didn't we run a reverse that got stuffed? Can't recall.

we run some misdirection with the slot taking the ball around the end which technically is a reverse. i diagrammed that play as well.

TXBOOMER
11/13/2010, 12:00 AM
http://images.memegenerator.net/Wise-Confucius/ImageMacro/2576855/Man-who-jump-off-cliff-JUMP-TO-CONCLUSION.jpg

Very well placed...LMAO!

TXBOOMER
11/13/2010, 12:07 AM
I like the design of our offense if we have a great defense. I hate the design of our offense with a fair defense. Look at their tired 4th quarter numbers in both losses. Whatever, if they get better and can execute it with the right players one of these years we will play for # 8. You can't play for a title every year.

gaylordfan1
11/13/2010, 01:49 AM
Well, we got what we wanted out of Wilson in the presser. He admitted he called the wrong plays at the goal line. Maybe my glasses are on but I expect to see a little bit of a variation with our offense, esp in goal line situations. I'm sure it will be a little more complicated to the defense.... it might be a little hard for us to see from the stands or on TV but I think it will happen. Now, if we do change things up and are successful, I will be crazy confused as to why we didn't make these adjustments before. We will see.

Leroy Lizard
11/13/2010, 02:21 AM
Well, we got what we wanted out of Wilson in the presser. He admitted he called the wrong plays at the goal line.

Not quite, but even if he did the admission does nothing for the team or KW. The players need the confidence that the play they are being asked to run has been chosen wisely. Public confessionals completely undermine that faith.

But, they make the fans feel good. (Actually, they don't even do that.)

IMO, never admit a mistake, confess, or apologize as a coach or politician once the public starts wanting it. (Well, the word "never" is a bit strong, admittedly.) The fans will not get off your back or forgive you anyway, and all you have done is give your enemies ammo.

I am sure a lot will disagree, but think about it for a moment.

The Maestro
11/13/2010, 09:02 AM
Just admitting you did something really stupid doesn't make it right. Ask Tiger Woods.

Leroy Lizard
11/13/2010, 10:57 AM
Just admitting you did something really stupid doesn't make it right. Ask Tiger Woods.

Beyond that, it doesn't even get the public off your back.

cjames317
11/13/2010, 12:40 PM
Well, we got what we wanted out of Wilson in the presser. He admitted he called the wrong plays at the goal line. Maybe my glasses are on but I expect to see a little bit of a variation with our offense, esp in goal line situations. I'm sure it will be a little more complicated to the defense.... it might be a little hard for us to see from the stands or on TV but I think it will happen. Now, if we do change things up and are successful, I will be crazy confused as to why we didn't make these adjustments before. We will see.

Michael Hodges (aggie LB with a career-high 19 tackles against OU last week) said that he knew what was coming on OUr goal line plays because of tendencies. "In certain sets, they'd come out with certain plays. Knowing that helped me get in the right position at the right time." Hodges made six of his tackles during those three goal-line stands. When Wilson banged his head against the wall the first time, without positive results, doesn't he have to answer for displaying the same tendencies the second and third times? Do OUr coaches get graded like the players do?