Driscoll Middle School Trick Play

[KC//CRIMSON]

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Meanwhile, Kevin Wilson just called 10 more bubble screens in a row.

[C&CDean]

Dude, don't do it.

[mehip]

You know those coaches are having words after the game.

[jumperstop]

Similar to the "Hey coach, wrong ball!!" play.

[jumperstop]

Well I just googled to look for the one I was talking about and there seems to be about 50 videos of this play. Popular tactic for highschool games I guess, try this at the college level and you'll get the **** hit out of you.

[picasso]

Reminds me of a JV game when I was a sophomore. The other team kicked and on sides kick.
Our coach yelled across the field, "we surrender!"

[Mad Dog Madsen]

Dude, don't do it.

Ban him! He mentioned Kevin Wilson! :D

[SoonerPr8r]

This vid has been all over the internets this weekend. There is a vid of a powder puff game where the girls do this same play. Saw it about a week ago. Apparently so did the Driscoll coach.

[jiminy]

So a bunch of football Dads get together over a few beers and figure out a way to trick 13 year old kids... what's wrong with this picture

[SoonerPr8r]

So a bunch of football Dads get together over a few beers and figure out a way to trick 13 year old kids... what's wrong with this picture

Absolutely nothing. You just wished you had thought of it first:D

[DarrellZero]

Doesn't a snap have to go through the center's legs?

[edit] Apparently not.

[oudavid1]

Yeah, A JV team tried this against us my SO year, our big JR safety (6'2, 210) laid out the kid as he was walking to the sideline. The ref on there sideline knew the play so didnt throw a flag and our coaches where just amazed. There QB didnt play the rest of the season. That'll teach him. Im pretty sure the QB's cletes touched the sky on that hit.

[soonerinkaty]

Really his cletes did? Wow.

[sooner518]

How long til those jackwads at Boise state try this?

[OU Engineer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQbAP-K28J8&feature=player_embedded

Still not sure how to embed

[soonercastor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQbAP-K28J8&feature=player_embedded

Still not sure how to embed

kQbAP-K28J8

[cccasooner2]

Really his cletes did? Wow. :)

Probably the cletes of Cletus.

http://www.simpsonstrivia.com.ar/simpsons-photos/wallpapers/cletus.gif

[reflector]

I thought it was neat.

[Leroy Lizard]

Football at this level is designed to teach the game, not to win at all costs, unless you really think that a middle school trophy is important to have on your shelf.

[oudavid1]

Football at this level is designed to teach the game, not to win at all costs, unless you really think that a middle school trophy is important to have on your shelf.

it is for some freaking losers. Like the coach my 8th grade year (i didnt play, i heard this story) got so mad at our biggest player when that player said he hated this team cause he was upset and the coach, a huge buff man ripped off his shirt and said he could find him in his office. Other coaches had to restrain him. The kid that started it is a very good Christan and never even curses. The coach was later fired.

[soonercastor]

Football at this level is designed to teach the game, not to win at all costs, unless you really think that a middle school trophy is important to have on your shelf.

This trick won't be pulled on any of the other team's kids EVER again. The lesson here is always BE AWARE, and that's a pretty big lesson.

[Leroy Lizard]

This trick won't be pulled on any of the other team's kids EVER again. The lesson here is always BE AWARE, and that's a pretty big lesson.

Adults use this excuse to rationalize why they spend valuable practice time on a play that teaches no fundamentals. No one on the field learned anything on that play whatsoever.

[starclassic tama]

yeah that was pretty weak. especially since kids are taught not to hit players during a dead ball, for fear of getting penalized.

[Leroy Lizard]

So who won?

[SOONER44EVER]

We played against Driscoll in middle school. They never did that to us. :)

[Leroy Lizard]

We played against Driscoll in middle school. They never did that to us. :)

You went to middle school in Corpus Christi?

[SOONER44EVER]

You went to middle school in Corpus Christi?

No.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Glad to see we got that cleared up.

[texaspokieokie]

Yeah, A JV team tried this against us my SO year, our big JR safety (6'2, 210) laid out the kid as he was walking to the sideline. The ref on there sideline knew the play so didnt throw a flag and our coaches where just amazed. There QB didnt play the rest of the season. That'll teach him. Im pretty sure the QB's cletes touched the sky on that hit.

the safety shoulda been suspended for rest of season.

[TUSooner]

How long til those jackwads at Boise state try this?

They're saving it for the next time they play us.

[TUSooner]

So a bunch of football Dads get together over a few beers and figure out a way to trick 13 year old kids... what's wrong with this picture

Precisely. Whoop de doo. I bet they're so proud of themselves!

[texaspokieokie]

Yeah, A JV team tried this against us my SO year, our big JR safety (6'2, 210) laid out the kid as he was walking to the sideline. The ref on there sideline knew the play so didnt throw a flag and our coaches where just amazed. There QB didnt play the rest of the season. That'll teach him. Im pretty sure the QB's cletes touched the sky on that hit.

on the JV you had a kid that was 6'-2" & 210 ??

how big were the lineman ???

[AggieGirl2005]

Football at this level is designed to teach the game, not to win at all costs, unless you really think that a middle school trophy is important to have on your shelf.

That's a good point. I liked the video, but in that context, "BOOOOO!"

[Landthief 1972]

Adults use this excuse to rationalize why they spend valuable practice time on a play that teaches no fundamentals. No one on the field learned anything on that play whatsoever.

THIS.

[Oldnslo]

Football at this level is designed to teach the game, not to win at all costs, unless you really think that a middle school trophy is important to have on your shelf.

my kid, almost 13, plays hard and is pretty interested in getting a trophy.

[BigTime1]

yes it is the level to TEACH the game it is also the level to let them know that it is fun and not just work...these type plays (trick plays) in general are fun for players and coachs at all levels

[SOONER44EVER]

yes it is the level to TEACH the game it is also the level to let them know that it is fun and not just work...these type plays (trick plays) in general are fun for players and coachs at all levels

Unless you're the one who got tricked. :)

[BigTime1]

Adults use this excuse to rationalize why they spend valuable practice time on a play that teaches no fundamentals. No one on the field learned anything on that play whatsoever.


valuable practice time???you obviously have never coached much...practicing trick plays gives the practice a great atmosphere and gets the team pumped up about the whole weeks scheme...not to mention while you are working on that specific play you will never have their attention more

and sooner44ever your right for sure but they can learn from it on monday watching film

[SOONER44EVER]

valuable practice time???you obviously have never coached much...practicing trick plays gives the practice a great atmosphere and gets the team pumped up about the whole weeks scheme...not to mention while you are working on that specific play you will never have their attention more

and sooner44ever your right for sure but they can learn from it on monday watching film

I remember we always went through the trick stuff on Thursdays when we were just in helmets and shorts. We actually looked forward to it...............unlike regular practices.

[Leroy Lizard]

my kid, almost 13, plays hard and is pretty interested in getting a trophy.

And as a mature adult you need to temper that desire by teaching good sportsmanship.

[BigTime1]

I remember we always went through the trick stuff on Thursdays when we were just in helmets and shorts. We actually looked forward to it...............unlike regular practices.

EXACTLY...thats when we do it with our guys too and theyre always excited

[Leroy Lizard]

valuable practice time???you obviously have never coached much...practicing trick plays gives the practice a great atmosphere and gets the team pumped up about the whole weeks scheme...not to mention while you are working on that specific play you will never have their attention more

Sure, you have your attention, but on crap. As soon as you mention "trick play" that's all they'll be thinking about. It's a huge distraction.

[SOONER44EVER]

EXACTLY...thats when we do it with our guys too and theyre always excited

I think it had more to do with no full contact practice than with the trick plays but it was still cool. It gets awfully hot and humid down in that part of Texas in August and September.

[BigTime1]

yes it does without a doubt get crazy hot sometimes about then...and Leroy its actually no distraction at all actually they give energy and excitement to the team...also it takes maybe a 10 min segment in practice to install them and are only crap to those who want to run their team in the ground and burn them out...you have to throw em a bone ever now and then

[Leroy Lizard]

yes it does without a doubt get crazy hot sometimes about then...and Leroy its actually no distraction at all actually they give energy and excitement to the team...also it takes maybe a 10 min segment in practice to install them and are only crap to those who want to run their team in the ground and burn them out...you have to throw em a bone ever now and then

I think you're good at coming up with excuses to defend your own decisions. But it flies in the face of the middle school mindset. These are young kids, and if they have a trick play to run that's all they'll be thinking about. "When do we run the trick play? When do we run the trick play?"

Teach them the fundamentals and leave the trick plays in the dumpster, where they belong.

[SOONER44EVER]

yes it does without a doubt get crazy hot sometimes about then...and Leroy its actually no distraction at all actually they give energy and excitement to the team...also it takes maybe a 10 min segment in practice to install them and are only crap to those who want to run their team in the ground and burn them out...you have to throw em a bone ever now and then

Ya, back then football was fun. It started being more about work in high school. Anything you can do to make it fun is a plus IMO.

[Caboose]

Adults use this excuse to rationalize why they spend valuable practice time on a play that teaches no fundamentals. No one on the field learned anything on that play whatsoever.

So you think if another team tried to run that play on the defensive team in the future the results would be the same?
I bet they learned what constitutes a legal snap on that play... and they will likely never forget it.

[BigTime1]

actually I dont need excuses and they dont keep asking...mine are high school but they have the same positive effect for the teams at all levels...again they take like 10 mins and remember after a while "fundamentals" get really really boring no matter how you present them you have to have these things to mix it up and create excitement

[Oldnslo]

oopsie

[Leroy Lizard]

So you think if another team tried to run that play on the defensive team in the future the results would be the same?

No team should be running it.


I bet they learned what constitutes a legal snap on that play... and they will likely never forget it.

You're reaching. The play was designed for the adults, not the kids. The coaches want to pull the wool over the eyes of the opposing coaches. That's what this is really about.

[SOONER44EVER]

That play was designed to get an easy score. Nothing more, nothing less.

[StoopTroup]

This story is up next on CNN again....

[OU Engineer]

why is this in the sooner football thread?

[Harry Beanbag]

They're saving it for the next time they play us.


And it'll work. :O

[SOONER44EVER]

why is this in the sooner football thread?

The same reason posts about Dallas, osu and texas are.

[Leroy Lizard]

That play was designed to get an easy score. Nothing more, nothing less.

We won't disagree there. Now who's ego does it satisfy to get that score?

[BigTime1]

Both the coachs AND players for design, slyness, and execution...if it works great everybody gets pumped up and it was fun something that can really be a game or momentum changer...if not you get up and go back to the game plan...no big thing

[SOONER44EVER]

We won't disagree there. Now who's ego does it satisfy to get that score?

Why does it matter?

[TUSooner]

why is this in the sooner football thread?

To be seen, because nobody hardly ever looks in other sports threads. :O

[Caboose]

No team should be running it.

Debatable/opinion




You're reaching. The play was designed for the adults, not the kids. The coaches want to pull the wool over the eyes of the opposing coaches. That's what this is really about.

You said no one learned anything from the play. I said the opposing defense learned what constituted a snap in the game of football. Are you disagreeing with this?

[Jacie]

Kinda reminded me of the fumblerewski. Of course, the NCAA outlawed that play but it was fun to watch when we ran it against the nebbish.

As for this one, my only reservation is that part of the "trick" involved a coach yelling from the sidelines. If there is one thing every kid learns in any organized sport, pay attention to the coach. The defense could hear him and had to have thought that as a coach, he knew what he was talking about. If it had only been the kids on the field having to pull it off, I wouldn't feel like there was any foul here, even though it was by-the-book legal. I would not be surprised to hear of junior high leagues banning stuff like this, however.

[Oldnslo]

Unless you're 14, Herm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNooFZPfmgE)

[Leroy Lizard]

You said no one learned anything from the play. I said the opposing defense learned what constituted a snap in the game of football. Are you disagreeing with this?

Yes. The opposing team simply got humiliated. They're not going to critically reflect back on the lesson.

Suppose I pull a dirty con on you and bilk you out of your money. To you, that would be a low-down dirty trick. To me, I was just teaching you a lesson on always being prepared. If I tried that excuse on you, though, you wouldn't appreciate the lesson because you would know damn well that wasn't my intention. I was just out to take your money.

It's a crappy excuse for a bush-league play. Coaches who pull this crap are only interested in the final score, and they can shove their excuses up their ***. At the upper levels of sports where the final score is mostly what matters, okay. But not at this level.

These kids are just learning the rules; you can't expect them to stay up all night reading the books and being prepared for every eventuality. Embarrassing kids is not an effective teaching tool.

[Caboose]

Yes. The opposing team simply got humiliated. They're not going to critically reflect back on the lesson.

Suppose I pull a dirty con on you and bilk you out of your money. To you, that would be a low-down dirty trick. To me, I was just teaching you a lesson on always being prepared. If I tried that excuse on you, though, you wouldn't appreciate the lesson because you would know damn well that wasn't my intention. I was just out to take your money.

It's a crappy excuse for a bush-league play. Coaches who pull this crap are only interested in the final score, and they can shove their excuses up their ***. At the upper levels of sports where the final score is mostly what matters, okay. But not at this level.

These kids are just learning the rules; you can't expect them to stay up all night reading the books and being prepared for every eventuality. Embarrassing kids is not an effective teaching tool.

So again, to simplify, you are saying the kids on defense know nothing more about what constitutes snap in football after that experience than they did before it?

Your overarching point can still be correct if you are wrong on some minor detail, ya know?

[Leroy Lizard]

So again, to simplify, you are saying the kids on defense know nothing more about what constitutes snap in football after that experience than they did before it?

Suppose it did (and I don't really think it did). If I con you out of money, did you learn a lesson? Does that make it right? Would you be upset if I conned you out of money? Suppose I swindled your mother or your kids. It's all good because they learned a lesson, right?

The purpose of the play was not to teach, and everyone knows it. It was just a trick perpetrated on young kids who could not have been expected to know better.

[Caboose]

Suppose it did (and I don't really think it did). If I con you out of money, did you learn a lesson? Does that make it right? Would you be upset if I conned you out of money? Suppose I swindled your mother or your kids. It's all good because they learned a lesson, right?

The purpose of the play was not to teach, and everyone knows it. It was just a trick perpetrated on young kids who could not have been expected to know better.

Did the kids on defense learn something about the rules of the game that they did not know before? It is a simple yes or no question.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Middle school kids having fun, dont see the problem :confused:

[Leroy Lizard]

Middle school kids having fun, dont see the problem :confused:

Well, half of them are.


Did the kids on defense learn something about the rules of the game that they did not know before? It is a simple yes or no question.

First of all, I doubt they did, and it wouldn't matter even if they did. There is a concept in sports called sportsmanship -- that even if something is legal it still may not be a good idea to do it.

We are complaining like Hell that our opponents are faking injuries to slow down the clock because we think that's bush league. At the same time we see no problem with a middle school team faking a live ball as a dead one. The reason the NCAA rules book is a mile thick is largely because some team decided that it could find a hole in the rules they could exploit. Okay, at the big-time levels I can understand that to a point. But at the middle school level?

[texaspokieokie]

much ado about (next to) nothing.

[Leroy Lizard]

much ado about (next to) nothing.

That's SoonerFans.com

[texaspokieokie]

very true !!!!

[ashley]

valuable practice time???you obviously have never coached much...practicing trick plays gives the practice a great atmosphere and gets the team pumped up about the whole weeks scheme...not to mention while you are working on that specific play you will never have their attention more

and sooner44ever your right for sure but they can learn from it on monday watching film

You are correct. I did this all the time.

[ashley]

I think you're good at coming up with excuses to defend your own decisions. But it flies in the face of the middle school mindset. These are young kids, and if they have a trick play to run that's all they'll be thinking about. "When do we run the trick play? When do we run the trick play?"

Teach them the fundamentals and leave the trick plays in the dumpster, where they belong.

I agree with you a lot, but I can tell that you never coached.

[ashley]

That play was designed to get an easy score. Nothing more, nothing less.

Very true.

[ashley]

I am a little surprise that no one has mentioned what makes the play work. Come on, there are so many football experts on here and no one gives a full explanition of what makes the play work.

[jumperstop]

Well, half of them are.



First of all, I doubt they did, and it wouldn't matter even if they did. There is a concept in sports called sportsmanship -- that even if something is legal it still may not be a good idea to do it.

We are complaining like Hell that our opponents are faking injuries to slow down the clock because we think that's bush league. At the same time we see no problem with a middle school team faking a live ball as a dead one. The reason the NCAA rules book is a mile thick is largely because some team decided that it could find a hole in the rules they could exploit. Okay, at the big-time levels I can understand that to a point. But at the middle school level?

Kinda like if you go for two up 44-0. It's legal, but it's not true sportsmanship and the other teams learns nothing from it.

That said I don't have any problem with this play, kinda funny but WAY over done. A quick google search reveals thats there are a lot of little league teams that try this. It'll probably just **** the other coach off more than the kids.

[Ground_Attack]

That's SoonerFans.com

no, that's Leroy. Have you already set up their ceremony where everyone gets a trophy and a hug?

[Leroy Lizard]

I agree with you a lot, but I can tell that you never coached.

Actually I have. Junior league basketball. Players were about the same age. We had similar issues, mostly revolving around certain teams use of the full court press against young kids with limited dribbling and passing skills.

You have design the rules to allow kids the most opportunity to learn fundamentals. Sooner or later, though, some ***-wipe will come in and scheme cheap ways of hauling off a trophy, and so you have to constantly modify the rules.

Anyone that has coached little league will tell you about the adults. They're the worst.

[Leroy Lizard]

I am a little surprise that no one has mentioned what makes the play work. Come on, there are so many football experts on here and no one gives a full explanition of what makes the play work.

Not hard. You fool the defense into thinking a live ball is dead. You do that by having the coach and QB yell at each other so that the defense thinks that the ball is simply being moved to a new location.

[Leroy Lizard]

no, that's Leroy. Have you already set up their ceremony where everyone gets a trophy and a hug?

That makes no sense.

[Collier11]

And as a mature adult you need to temper that desire by teaching good sportsmanship.

Disagree to an extent...at that age you are supposed to learn fundamentals and playing hard and all that but when I was in middle school I played to win as well.

Now little league I can understand a little more

[Leroy Lizard]

Kinda like if you go for two up 44-0. It's legal, but it's not true sportsmanship and the other teams learns nothing from it.

That said I don't have any problem with this play, kinda funny but WAY over done. A quick google search reveals thats there are a lot of little league teams that try this. It'll probably just **** the other coach off more than the kids.

Another example that is closer to the one in the vid is the fake kneel, where a QB makes it appear that he is kneeling but instead throws a pass. Banned in the NCAA and pros I think.

The problem with many of these plays is that it exploits the other players' lack of familiarity with the rules. That can be defended at the higher levels, but middle schoolers can't be expected to know every nuance of the game rules.

[ashley]

Not hard. You fool the defense into thinking a live ball is dead. You do that by having the coach and QB yell at each other so that the defense thinks that the ball is simply being moved to a new location.

The QB tells the center that that is a penalty, give me the ball. He starts to march off five yards and then takes off running.

[Jacie]

I am a little surprise that no one has mentioned what makes the play work. Come on, there are so many football experts on here and no one gives a full explanition of what makes the play work.

That's because you didn't read my post . . .

[sozo]

How long til those jackwads at Boise state try this?

That's what I was thinking!

[ashley]

That's because you didn't read my post . . .

You did not give the explanation that I did. Read my post.

[Caboose]

Suppose it did (and I don't really think it did). If I con you out of money, did you learn a lesson? Does that make it right? Would you be upset if I conned you out of money? Suppose I swindled your mother or your kids. It's all good because they learned a lesson, right?

The purpose of the play was not to teach, and everyone knows it. It was just a trick perpetrated on young kids who could not have been expected to know better.

Gawd, the lengths you will go through to avoid just saying you were wrong on a minor point that doesn't even invalidate your major point.

You are honestly going to sit there and pretend that you don't think the kids on defense now know that center can just hand the ball to the QB and it is a live play. Unreal. You are going to sit there and pretend to be so obtuse that you honestly think that if the offensive team tried the same play on the next possession the defense would just stand there again and watch him walk by them.

[BigTime1]

Leroy you do have one very valid pt. the parents at the little league ages are the worst and usually worse than that are the coachs at these levels. That being said there are a few exceptions. But when these kids hit JH its time to start playin to win and that the game is not all high fives and pats on the butt no matter how you play or if your team wins or loses. You have to push their competitve natures if you dont they will accept losing at all levels and not just in football games but life as well. At some point an all out FEAR of losing has to be put in place and the realization brought forward its not accepted.

[Sooner_Bob]

And as a mature adult you need to temper that desire by teaching good sportsmanship.

Running a trick play = poor sportsmanship?

[Sooner_Bob]

Yes. The opposing team simply got humiliated. They're not going to critically reflect back on the lesson.

Suppose I pull a dirty con on you and bilk you out of your money. To you, that would be a low-down dirty trick. To me, I was just teaching you a lesson on always being prepared. If I tried that excuse on you, though, you wouldn't appreciate the lesson because you would know damn well that wasn't my intention. I was just out to take your money.


In this case you'd be breaking the law . . . these middle school coaches did nothing of the sort.




It's a crappy excuse for a bush-league play. Coaches who pull this crap are only interested in the final score, and they can shove their excuses up their ***. At the upper levels of sports where the final score is mostly what matters, okay. But not at this level.

These kids are just learning the rules; you can't expect them to stay up all night reading the books and being prepared for every eventuality. Embarrassing kids is not an effective teaching tool.

You got embarrassed in middle school didn't you?

[Leroy Lizard]

Gawd, the lengths you will go through to avoid just saying you were wrong on a minor point that doesn't even invalidate your major point.

Look who's talking. :rolleyes:


You are honestly going to sit there and pretend that you don't think the kids on defense now know that center can just hand the ball to the QB and it is a live play.

How often will that ever happen in their entire lives? How stupid. It's a stupid argument and an even worse excuse. Why are you even bothering to lean on it?

[Leroy Lizard]

Leroy you do have one very valid pt. the parents at the little league ages are the worst and usually worse than that are the coachs at these levels. That being said there are a few exceptions. But when these kids hit JH its time to start playin to win and that the game is not all high fives and pats on the butt no matter how you play or if your team wins or loses. You have to push their competitve natures if you dont they will accept losing at all levels and not just in football games but life as well. At some point an all out FEAR of losing has to be put in place and the realization brought forward its not accepted.

I know you may find this hard to believe, but you can be highly competitive and still exhibit good sportsmanship.

It is possible. I've seen it done.

It comes down to one question: How important is it to win? At the pro level... its the only thing. At the college level... it's pretty damn important, but not crucial. At the junior high school level... give me a freakin' break!

No one is saying don't keep score. No one is saying that teams shouldn't try hard to win. But to exploit little kids' lack of knowledge of the rule book to score a cheap TD is ridiculous, and I cannot understand why you can't see that.

[Leroy Lizard]

Running a trick play = poor sportsmanship?

Yes, depending on the play. A reverse (which is really not a trick play) is not poor sportsmanship because the defense knows that it's a legal play and that they have to be on guard for it. Faking a dead ball as live is not in the same category, because little kids cannot be expected to be on guard for it.

Even at the college level the NCAA will ban plays that garner cheap TDs. A lot of our rules are attempts to prevent players from employing out-of-the-ordinary shenanigans.

[Leroy Lizard]

In this case you'd be breaking the law . . . these middle school coaches did nothing of the sort.

Not necessarily. I can take advantage of the elderly in a business deal and not be breaking the law.

So would that be okay with you? After all, didn't I teach them a lesson?


You got embarrassed in middle school didn't you?

Even if I did, totally irrelevant.

[Sooner_Bob]

Not necessarily. I can take advantage of the elderly in a business deal and not be breaking the law.

How very sportsmanlike of you.



So would that be okay with you? After all, didn't I teach them a lesson?


Comparing this trick play to bilking someone out of their cash is crazy. Implying stealing is ok when discussing this trick play is even worse.



Even if I did, totally irrelevant.

Dude, we all got embarrassed in middle school . . . on probably a much different level than this trick play. I doubt the defensive guys felt bad for very long.

[Sooner_Bob]

Yes, depending on the play. A reverse (which is really not a trick play) is not poor sportsmanship because the defense knows that it's a legal play and that they have to be on guard for it. Faking a dead ball as live is not in the same category, because little kids cannot be expected to be on guard for it.

Even at the college level the NCAA will ban plays that garner cheap TDs. A lot of our rules are attempts to prevent players from employing out-of-the-ordinary shenanigans.

Ok . . . well enjoy your boring football. I think you've made a mountain out of this molehill.

[Leroy Lizard]

How very sportsmanlike of you.

Exactly.



Comparing this trick play to bilking someone out of their cash is crazy. Implying stealing is ok when discussing this trick play is even worse.

The point is that you can't rationalize actions simply because you think the victim (opposing players) learns something from it. Nothing more.


Ok . . . well enjoy your boring football.

Dude, I just said that you can run trick plays like reverses. WTF?


I think you've made a mountain out of this molehill.

Takes two to tango. You're not exactly STFU'ing either.

[ashley]

Yes, depending on the play. A reverse (which is really not a trick play) is not poor sportsmanship because the defense knows that it's a legal play and that they have to be on guard for it. Faking a dead ball as live is not in the same category, because little kids cannot be expected to be on guard for it.

Even at the college level the NCAA will ban plays that garner cheap TDs. A lot of our rules are attempts to prevent players from employing out-of-the-ordinary shenanigans.

That is not true. Out of the ordinary plays are ok as long as some part of the play is not prohibited by rule. It is also not deemed unethical. All rules were followed. The defensive kids will now recognize it if they ever see it again.

[Leroy Lizard]

That is not true. Out of the ordinary plays are ok as long as some part of the play is not prohibited by rule.

You misread my post.

Fake a knee toward the end of the game, score a cheap TD, and watch what the refs do. At one time it was legal. No more.

[rainiersooner]

This trick won't be pulled on any of the other team's kids EVER again. The lesson here is always BE AWARE, and that's a pretty big lesson.

that was my thought.

[rainiersooner]

You're not exactly STFU'ing either.

STFU'ing...that's a funny expression.

You know what, I like Leroy. He's a cantankerous pain in the ***, but it's better than listening to people who agree with me. Spek your way Sooner brethren.

[Leroy Lizard]

STFU'ing...that's a funny expression.

You know what, I like Leroy. He's a cantankerous pain in the ***, but it's better than listening to people who agree with me. Spek your way Sooner brethren.

Give me a few minutes. I'm scanning your post for spelling errors.

[Soonerwake]

I nominate this thread for the annual "Funny Clip Turned Into a Big Fat Discussion of Crap" award...

[SanJoaquinSooner]

It's interesting that one major tool of the offense in football is deception.

e.g., faking a handoff to the tailback and throwing a pass instead.... or generally making the defense believe you are going to do one thing and then do something quite different.

This trick play is a different type of deception and I wouldn't object as a fan of football if it was banned. As long as it's within the rules you gotta live with it.

One of the great deceptions is the naked bootleg. Mark Sanchez does a nice one:

_XPbMpma_-w

[Caboose]

Look who's talking. :rolleyes:



How often will that ever happen in their entire lives? How stupid. It's a stupid argument and an even worse excuse. Why are you even bothering to lean on it?

Good gawd, the weasel-speak continues. YOU are the one that said they didnt learn anything, not me. And yes, it was a stupid argument. Why are you bothering defending it?

[Leroy Lizard]

I nominate this thread for the annual "Funny Clip Turned Into a Big Fat Discussion of Crap" award...

Stiff competition.

[Leroy Lizard]

Good gawd, the weasel-speak continues. YOU are the one that said they didnt learn anything, not me.

Okay, I admit they learned something. They learned that the opposing coach is a jackass. If in the future they ever have to deal with him on any financial matters, they will know better than to trust him.

You happy now?

[Oldnslo]

it was in this thread that I discovered why some folks think LL is a tool.

[Caboose]

Okay, I admit they learned something. They learned that the opposing coach is a jackass. If in the future they ever have to deal with him on any financial matters, they will know better than to trust him.

You happy now?

No. The play had nothing to do with the character of the opposing coach or future finances.

The kids know something about the rules of football that they did not know prior to that play. It isnt hard to understand and its even easier to admit. To think, someone that doesn't have the character to just admit they were wrong on a simple ancillary point has spent the better part of this thread attacking the character of the offensive coach in that video.

[yermom]

it was in this thread that I discovered why some folks think LL is a tool.

a little slow, aren't you?

i hope you never play poker Leroy

[SoonerAtKU]

The flip side of this are those people who think bluffing at poker is not sporting. Also, there was a quote somewhere from Texas' OC that said a pump-fake wasn't "sound football".

Those two things are pants-on-head retarded.

[Leroy Lizard]

No. The play had nothing to do with the character of the opposing coach...

That's the whole basis of this argument.

Look, the opposing coach knows he's dealing with young kids who are just learning the rules of the game. He also knows that kids look to the coaches on the sidelines as authority figures and would likely never suspect that a coach would be in on a trick. So he schemed a play that would take advantage of their ignorance and respect for authority.

These are just young kids. At this level, teaching good sportsmanship is vital. If we teach kids that anything goes as long as the rules don't specifically forbid it, then we are teaching them a really bad lesson.

[Leroy Lizard]

The flip side of this are those people who think bluffing at poker is not sporting. Also, there was a quote somewhere from Texas' OC that said a pump-fake wasn't "sound football".

Those two things are pants-on-head retarded.

True. But we're not talking about the same thing here. A reverse is like bluffing in poker, and a reverse is perfectly acceptable.

And if you're playing poker with young kids, the rules on what is acceptable might change.

[SoonerAtKU]

Indeed, I'm saying that's the other extreme to those who say "anything within the rules is fine."

[Leroy Lizard]

Indeed, I'm saying that's the other extreme to those who say "anything within the rules is fine."

You would think the true answer lies somewhere in the middle, but not when you're dealing with sports meatheads.

[Leroy Lizard]

a little slow, aren't you?

i hope you never play poker Leroy

Not with you. I would have to be on the lookout for a marked deck, or creative positioning of mirrors. :D

[yermom]

my problem with that play is that it only works like once, and you can't count on it

does anyone know what the situation in the game was? were they behind? getting blown out? doing the blowing out?

if it's legal, i don't see why they shouldn't do it. it's like complaining about play action passes or something

[yermom]

Not with you. I would have to be on the lookout for a marked deck, or creative positioning of mirrors. :D

i was thinking more like check-raising ;)

[Oldnslo]

my problem with that play is that it only works like once, and you can't count on it

does anyone know what the situation in the game was? were they behind? getting blown out? doing the blowing out?

if it's legal, i don't see why they shouldn't do it. it's like complaining about play action passes or something

lots of plays only work once. Hell, you've got to work half a game to set up a reverse, and then it's only good for one go. For that matter, if a lineman has most of his brain, you can't run screens at him more than a few times.

The key for me is having the card to play when you need or want it.

I was thrilled that we attempted a fake field goal. Sure, we came up short, but I like that we put in a wild card. I can only hope that a fake field goal is universally accepted as sportsmanlike.

[Leroy Lizard]

if it's legal, i don't see why they shouldn't do it. it's like complaining about play action passes or something

Not even close.

[yermom]

i knew that fake was coming

there was no way our kicker had enough leg for that kick after seeing the last one :(

[Caboose]

That's the whole basis of this argument.

Look, the opposing coach knows he's dealing with young kids who are just learning the rules of the game. He also knows that kids look to the coaches on the sidelines as authority figures and would likely never suspect that a coach would be in on a trick. So he schemed a play that would take advantage of their ignorance and respect for authority.

These are just young kids. At this level, teaching good sportsmanship is vital. If we teach kids that anything goes as long as the rules don't specifically forbid it, then we are teaching them a really bad lesson.

Leroy: The players learned nothing from that play

Me: They learned what constitutes a legal snap according to the rules.

Leroy: wharggrble... character...whaurrrgrrrble.... sportsmanship. whrrrgrbble.

Me: So did they or didnt they learn about the snap?

Leroy: whhrrrgrrrble.... doent matter.... wherrrr gahrble.. NO.... wherrrgble... I doubt it..... hwooerergrble... finances...

Me: So, you dont think they learned anything about the rules?

Leroy: whrrrgrrrble... character...whuuurrrgggg... I CAN NEVER ADMIT I WAS WRONG EVEN ABOUT SOMETHING MINOR....whrrrgrrrble...I am all about character though....whrrrruuuuggg.

Our conversation in a nutshell.

Dude, I am not disagreeing with your overall argument... I am disagreeing with your minor assertion that the kids didnt learn anything from the play. They obviously did. Pull your head out. You are making it hard for people who agree with you to agree with you. Stop being such a boor.

[Leroy Lizard]

Leroy: The players learned nothing from that play

Me: They learned what constitutes a legal snap according to the rules.

You haven't established that.

They probably went home confused as to what actually happened. "The other team ran some sort of trick play and we didn't know what to do." Tell me, does that not sound typical of a young kid?

These are middle schoolers. Don't assume that they will critically reflect on what took place.


Dude, I am not disagreeing with your overall argument...

So even by your own account it's a pointless argument. So why are you even bothering with it? It's seems as if you have picked up on a minor point in the discussion and trying to score some sort of meaningless points. Kinda' like that coach.

[Caboose]

You haven't established that.

They probably went home confused as to what actually happened. "The other team ran some sort of trick play and we didn't know what to do." Tell me, does that not sound typical of a young kid?

These are middle schoolers. Don't assume that they will critically reflect on what took place.

Right, you think their coach just never addressed it with them afterward? Never explained to them why that was a legal play? They just went home and forgot about it? Have you ever played a sport in your life? Surely you know that isn't how it works. Yeah, every player who has ever had a trick play run against them is still wandering around today clueless as to how it happened.




So even by your own account it's a pointless argument. So why are you even bothering with it? It's seems as if you have picked up on a minor point in the discussion and trying to score some sort of meaningless points. Kinda' like that coach.

By my account your assertion was wrong and you still dont have the character to admit. And if it is such a minor point why are still bothering to defend it? To score some sort of meaningless points? Kinda like that coach whose character you are showing yourself to be on par with?

[madillsoonerfan5353]

Adults use this excuse to rationalize why they spend valuable practice time on a play that teaches no fundamentals. No one on the field learned anything on that play whatsoever.

I think your wrong, they learned that is called a side snap and is perfectly legal. Some one on this board didn't know that there was such a thing as a side snap. :cool: :D

[Leroy Lizard]

Right, you think their coach just never addressed it with them afterward? Never explained to them why that was a legal play?

Doubt it.

Even if they did, the side snap is so extraordinarily rare that the lesson won't really benefit them. The side snap wouldn't work at the college level despite the fact that almost none of the players have actually been burned by it. How do explain that?

Again, with young kids you have to portion out what they can learn, because they can't learn it all at one time. If learning that the side snap is legal is important at this level, most coaches would teach it. They don't.


By my account your assertion was wrong and you still dont have the character to admit.

Try to get this through your skull: I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. When are you going to figure that out?

[Sooner_Bob]

You're not exactly STFU'ing either.

How many posts do you have in this thread?

How many posts do I have in this thread?


That's what I thought.


/Al Eshbach/

Seeeee yaaaaaa . . .

/Al Eshbach/

[Leroy Lizard]

How many posts do you have in this thread?

Not enough.


How many posts do I have in this thread?

Too many.

[agoo758]

If I con you out of money, did you learn a lesson?.

Are you seriously comparing getting scored on in a game to getting your money stolen?


If the opposing players were as embarrassed about what happened on that play as you speculate, then they are taking it WAY to personally.

[SOONER44EVER]

Not enough.



Too many.

LOL @ not enough.

[Leroy Lizard]

Are you seriously comparing getting scored on in a game to getting your money stolen?

Context. Go back and look at the context of the discussion.

Besides, I already answered that question: Not all schemes that take advantage of the elderly are illegal, but that doesn't make them ethical.

[Caboose]

Doubt it.

Even if they did, the side snap is so extraordinarily rare that the lesson won't really benefit them. The side snap wouldn't work at the college level despite the fact that almost none of the players have actually been burned by it. How do explain that?

Again, with young kids you have to portion out what they can learn, because they can't learn it all at one time. If learning that the side snap is legal is important at this level, most coaches would teach it. They don't.



Try to get this through your skull: I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. When are you going to figure that out?

Try to get this through your skull. It isnt a matter of opinion that can agreed with or disagreed with. You have taken the unfavorable position of having to deny reality to defend an indefensible and ultimately inconsequential statement rather than simply admit mistake or modify your statement. Truly tragic for one who is lecturing on character as the basis for your argument.

[Leroy Lizard]

Try to get this through your skull. It isnt a matter of opinion that can agreed with or disagreed with. You have taken the unfavorable position of having to deny reality to defend an indefensible and ultimately inconsequential statement...

You still haven't demonstrated any evidence to suggest that these kids actually learned something from the play. You've got nothing other than your opinion. Nothing at all.

And to say that it is inconsequential but then to go on and on and on about it demonstrates that you are obsessing. If it is so inconsequential, then STFU about it.

[texaspokieokie]

yeah, everyone.

[Statalyzer]

You still haven't demonstrated any evidence to suggest that these kids actually learned something from the play.

That's a ridiculous standard. There's no way he can demonstrate it unless he tracks them down and talks to them.

His argument is that, regardless of proof, it is reasonable to assume that they learned something. And he's right.

[jumperstop]

I'm sure the kids didn't even worry about it this much....

[Crucifax Autumn]

This thread needs an enema.

[Leroy Lizard]

That's a ridiculous standard. There's no way he can demonstrate it unless he tracks them down and talks to them.

That's not my problem. That's his problem.


His argument is that, regardless of proof, it is reasonable to assume that they learned something. And he's right.

Proof? I just asked for any evidence. None forthcoming. Instead, you just assumed.

[texaspokieokie]

this whole thread is only assumption & other forms of crap !!!!

[Sooner_Bob]

Maybe if I have just one more post in this thread it will help . . .

[Sooner_Bob]

Nope . . .

[Leroy Lizard]

Nope . . .

:confused:

[Eielson]

Let's keep kids from having fun so that they can learn the fundamentals of the game...as if elementary school coaches can even teach them that.