So ONE Fed Judge Trumps 70% of the Okie voters

[olevetonahill]

Personaly I DGARA I dint vote for this bill, But if 70 % of the Voters say they want it , then a Fed, Judge needs to STFU

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101108/ap_on_re_us/us_islamic_law_lawsuit

[saucysoonergal]

It just means it can't be certified until a full hearing vet, gotta make sure it meets with Constitutional muster.

The good citizens of Oklahoma at this point would probably vote for lynch mobs, but that would probably need a TRO too. ;)

[SicEmBaylor]

Personaly I DGARA I dint vote for this bill, But if 70 % of the Voters say they want it , then a Fed, Judge needs to STFU

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101108/ap_on_re_us/us_islamic_law_lawsuit

100% right.

[SicEmBaylor]

The Federal courts shouldn't have ANY role in the social policy of the states.

Repeal the 14th Amendment.

[3rdgensooner]

So, if 70% of voters say they want to bring back school segregation, we should by gawd do it!

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

It is a shame that the state will have to spend money to defend this poor excuse of a bill.

I am glad the constitutionality is being challenged.

[virginiasooner]

So, if 70% of voters say they want to bring back school segregation, we should by gawd do it!

Not to mention no rights for all them homeosexeuals! That should make Sally Kern happy as a pig in slop!

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

Not to mention no rights for all them homeosexeuals! That should make Sally Kern happy as a pig in slop!

California requires only a simple majority to amend the constitution of their state. We should decide human rights based on what 50% of the populous thinks.

[olevetonahill]

So, if 70% of voters say they want to bring back school segregation, we should by gawd do it!

Like I said I dint vote fer it. So I dont Give a rats *** one way or the other.
While we all know there are some Racist bigoted red necks here I dont think 70% of the voters would go for the Racist carp

[Oldnslo]

Rex did a crappy jorb of writing that issue. Cutting out the whole of international law was a gaffe of the highest order.

[StoopTroup]

I'll vote for the lynch mobs but I'm thinking it will make going to Road Games a bit more dangerous.

[OKLA21FAN]

Let's see, this also rules out the Napoleonic code, so they can't adopt Louisiana law (not that that is an improvement) and everything else is based on English common law. Seeing as all the laws are now invalid, they may have inadvertently approved gay marriage, legalized pot, and made it perfectly legal to be here illegally. Oops!

and oh yeah... dem there ten commandments dealio is kaput! :pop:

[My Opinion Matters]

I'm by no means a law expert, but isn't the issue here that the bill is unconsitutional?

[Boarder]

Don't be mad at the judge. Be mad at Rep Rex Duncan, Rep Lewis Moore, and Sen Anthony Sykes who wrote such a ridiculous bill, knowing full well that it was probably going to be challenged.

[OKLA21FAN]

I'm by no means a law expert, but isn't the issue here that the bill is unconsitutional?

70% say 'no'

Dean the dream sez it has a 80-30 chance of being over turned.

[OhU1]

Don't be mad at the judge. Be mad at Rep Rex Duncan, Rep Lewis Moore, and Sen Anthony Sykes who wrote such a ridiculous bill, knowing full well that it was probably going to be challenged.

Yep. And expect more such silliness in the name of symbolic battles with Washington and keeping us safe from boogeymen out to take away the Oklahoma way of life.

[SicEmBaylor]

So, if 70% of voters say they want to bring back school segregation, we should by gawd do it!

Actually, yes.

[texaspokieokie]

California requires only a simple majority to amend the constitution of their state. We should decide human rights based on what 50% of the populous thinks.

some of their stuff gets overturned by fed judges,also.

[The]

Actually, yes.

You just want another Civil War, don't ya?

[SicEmBaylor]

The only Constitution that should matter in this case is the Constitution of the state of Oklahoma.

[Frozen Sooner]

Nah, he just wants to pretend the first one didn't actually happen. Without federal civil rights laws, we'd all be happy and discrimination would have just withered away.

[SicEmBaylor]

You just want another Civil War, don't ya?

We've never had a Civil War.

In any case, I'm a firm believer that the US Constitution should only apply to Federal law which was the case until the 14th Amendment extended it to the states.

[Frozen Sooner]

The only Constitution that should matter in this case is the Constitution of the state of Oklahoma.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

[Frozen Sooner]

We've never had a Civil War.

In any case, I'm a firm believer that the US Constitution should only apply to Federal law which was the case until the 14th Amendment extended it to the states.

Really? States were free to make treaties with foreign governments before the 14th Amendment? Make laws in restraint of interstate commerce?

[The]

We've never had a Civil War.

In any case, I'm a firm believer that the US Constitution should only apply to Federal law which was the case until the 14th Amendment extended it to the states.

Just a War of Northern Aggression, eh?

[Frozen Sooner]

Just a War of Northern Aggression, eh?

It's semantics. Technically it was a war of secession, not a Civil War. The South had no desire to take over governance of the whole nation.

Just a desire to keep owning other humans.

[virginiasooner]

Just a War of Northern Aggression, eh?

And it wasn't over slavery!

[The]

It's semantics. Technically it was a war of secession, not a Civil War. The South had no desire to take over governance of the whole nation.

Just a desire to keep owning other humans.

Good lord that's dense.

The World Wars didn't involve the entire world. It's just what we call it. Canadian bacon is just ham. It's the mother****ing Civil War. That's what it's called.

[SicEmBaylor]

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

I can't see how the Supremacy Clause would apply in this case. What reserved power of the Federal government is the state of Oklahoma trying to supersede?

The act seems more a violation of the 14th Amendment than the Supremacy clause...

[SicEmBaylor]

And it wasn't over slavery!

Yes, it was, but it's much more complex than that. It truly was about States' Rights -- slavery of which was the biggest issue under the umbrella of states' rights but it was by no means the only issue. But, yes, slavery is the straw that broke the camel's back for the South.

HOWEVER, the Union did not go to war over Slavery.

It's much more historically correct to say that the south left the Union over a series of violations of states' rights the most egregious of which (for them) was slavery while the North made the decision to go to war in order to preserve the Union which eventually included (but did not start as) the effort to eliminate slavery.

[SicEmBaylor]

Good lord that's dense.

The World Wars didn't involve the entire world. It's just what we call it. Canadian bacon is just ham. It's the mother****ing Civil War. That's what it's called.

It's not dense -- it's nuance.

[The]

Yes, it was, but it's much more complex than that. It truly was about States' Rights -- slavery of which was the biggest issue under the umbrella of states' rights but it was by no means the only issue. But, yes, slavery is the straw that broke the camel's back for the South.

HOWEVER, the Union did not go to war over Slavery.

It's much more historically correct to say that the south left the Union over a series of violations of states' rights the most egregious of which (for them) was slavery while the North made the decision to go to war in order to preserve the Union which eventually included (but did not start as) the effort to eliminate slavery.

SO, since the south got their pansy, treacherous, terrorist butts whipped, the issue of State's Rights is pretty much solved, right?

[The]

It's not dense -- it's nuance.

No, it is effete intellectualism.

[Frozen Sooner]

I can't see how the Supremacy Clause would apply in this case. What reserved power of the Federal government is the state of Oklahoma trying to supersede?

The act seems more a violation of the 14th Amendment than the Supremacy clause...

The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, and thus superior to the Oklahoma Constitution. The 14th Amendment is part of the Constitution. Recognizing you don't LIKE the 14th Amendment, you don't get to just wish it away and say that only the Oklahoma Constitution is involved here. In fact, were the Oklahoma Constitution the only one involved here, the District Court likely wouldn't have jurisdiction.

Breaking it down:

You claim only the Oklahoma Constitution should be implicated.
The Establishment clause of the First Amendment was made applicable to the states through the Due Process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment (save the Privileges and Immunities/Substantive Due Process debate for another day)
Therefore, even though the act involves Oklahoma only, the statute may be prohibited by the Constitution, which is supreme over the Oklahoma Constitution. You can amend the Oklahoma Constitution to say that 9lb8oz Baby Jesus is the sole temporal power if you want, but a Federal Court can still declare that act unconstitutional.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, and thus superior to the Oklahoma Constitution. The 14th Amendment is part of the Constitution. Recognizing you don't LIKE the 14th Amendment, you don't get to just wish it away and say that only the Oklahoma Constitution is involved here. In fact, were the Oklahoma Constitution the only one involved here, the District Court likely wouldn't have jurisdiction.

Soo...AM I supposed to scream everytime someone posts the word "constitution"? Because you just made me scream...a lot

[SicEmBaylor]

SO, since the south got their pansy, treacherous, terrorist butts whipped, the issue of State's Rights is pretty much solved, right?

Pansy? The south's troops fought with old equipment, often barefoot, they froze to death, starved to death, and were outnumbered more than 2-1 and still whipped the Union's *** for 4 years. You can say all you want about their cause and you can make whatever asinine and stupid little insulting bull**** quips you want but they were anything but "pansy."

When was the last time your p***y *** fought for four years barefoot with little food and no shelter for 4 years against superior numbers with superior equipment? Yeah...STFU.

And there was absolutely nothing treasonous about their actions. From the moment the first colony was founded until after the war, most Americans considered themselves first and foremost a citizen of their state. The states created this country and this government -- not the other way around. The principles of citizenship were very different at the time. Again, just another ignorant statement.

And if you want to consider an illegal and unconstitutional war to have "settled" an issue like states' rights then that's simply your opinion and not worth much in my book.

[The]

Pansy? The south's troops fought with old equipment, often barefoot, they froze to death, starved to death, and were outnumbered more than 2-1 and still whipped the Union's *** for 4 years. You can say all you want about their cause and you can make whatever asinine and stupid little insulting bull**** quips you want but they were anything but "pansy."

When was the last time your p***y *** fought for four years barefoot with little food and no shelter for 4 years against superior numbers with superior equipment? Yeah...STFU.

And there was absolutely nothing treasonous about their actions. From the moment the first colony was founded until after the war, most Americans considered themselves first and foremost a citizen of their state. The states created this country and this government -- not the other way around. The principles of citizenship were very different at the time. Again, just another ignorant statement.

And if you want to consider an illegal and unconstitutional war to have "settled" an issue like states' rights then that's simply your opinion and not worth much in my book.
http://www.wired.com/images/article/full/2007/11/gen_sherman_250x.jpg

I burnt your *** up and you liked it...

[The]

Face it, the Confederates were pansy boys that got served by a force that had Almighty God on their side.

That would probably make the South agents of Satan, as well.

[SicEmBaylor]

The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, and thus superior to the Oklahoma Constitution. The 14th Amendment is part of the Constitution. Recognizing you don't LIKE the 14th Amendment, you don't get to just wish it away and say that only the Oklahoma Constitution is involved here. In fact, were the Oklahoma Constitution the only one involved here, the District Court likely wouldn't have jurisdiction.

Breaking it down:

You claim only the Oklahoma Constitution should be implicated.
The Establishment clause of the First Amendment was made applicable to the states through the Due Process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment (save the Privileges and Immunities/Substantive Due Process debate for another day)
Therefore, even though the act involves Oklahoma only, the statute may be prohibited by the Constitution, which is supreme over the Oklahoma Constitution. You can amend the Oklahoma Constitution to say that 9lb8oz Baby Jesus is the sole temporal power if you want, but a Federal Court can still declare that act unconstitutional.

Yes, I know and you're technically correct. As usual, I'm simply arguing for the way I think the Constitution ought to be applied sans the 14th Amendment.

[The]

Yes, I know and you're technically correct. As usual, I'm simply arguing for the way I think the Constitution ought to be applied sans the 14th Amendment.


Dude, your side LOST. I mean, lost bad, worse than the French in WWII. God Chose AMERICA. Why don't you jump on the winning side, come in for the Big Score, and let those LOSERS rot in history next to The Third Reich and The Soviet Union?

[JohnnyMack]

The South was the crack ho who kept lying about giving up the rock (the rock being slavery). The North finally took it to rehab.

[JohnnyMack]

Dude, your side LOST. I mean, lost bad, worse than the French in WWII. God Chose AMERICA. Why don't you jump on the winning side, come in for the Big Score, and let those LOSERS rot in history next to The Third Reich and The Soviet Union?

America. **** yeah!

[Frozen Sooner]

Well, yeah, but arguing like that is an exercise in mental masturbation. I know you think that the 14th SHOULD be repealed, but the District Court has to apply the law as it stands now and has to respect the fact that the 14th Amendment does, in fact, exist. Were he to simply ignore the 14th Amendment, his judgment would be vacated by the Circuit Court pretty quickly and he'd just have to go through the whole process again.

[Frozen Sooner]

If you think violence never solves anything, just ask the Carthaginians.
--Robert A. Heinlein.

[The]

If you think violence never solves anything, just ask the Carthaginians.
--Robert A. Heinlein.


Grok.
--Robert A. Heinlein.

[Frozen Sooner]

Grok.
--Robert A. Heinlein.

Grok.

=w=

[KC//CRIMSON]

The South was the crack ho who kept lying about giving up the rock (the rock being slavery). The North finally took it to rehab.

The best explanation you're ever going to hear, ladies and gentlemen.

[My Opinion Matters]

That's some mighty fine trolling in this thread.

[The]

That's some mighty fine trolling in this thread.

http://paradoxdgn.com/junk/avatars/trollface.jpg

Problem?

[Soonerus]

It is/was a crappy state question that should have never been sent to the voters and it is very likely unconstitutional...

[Okla-homey]

Sic, you better watch yourself. You need to keep in mind that Mississippi still allows involuntary sterilization of imbeciles. It's one of only five states that do.

Or don't. On second thought, go ahead on. It's not like you're liable to impregnate anyone anyway. ;)

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

It is/was a crappy state question that should have never been sent to the voters and it is very likely unconstitutional...

Same with the health care question.

*Shakes Fist*
*Goes to Writing Table*
*Writes bill that subverts the Supremacy Clause*
*Barfs/Sh*ts all overself*

*Talks about cutting spending*

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

Also, I don't think I have ever heard anyone disagree with the 14th. It is probably the best amendment post bill of rights, it protects us all ffs.

[sooner ngintunr]

ffs for the 14th? ****in lib.;)

[GottaHavePride]

No, it is effete intellectualism.



OK, if you think intellectualism is only for sissies, why are you still on the internet? Nerds built your computer, dorks dreamed up the internet, and geeks made your cell phone small enough that it doesn't take an assistant named Winthorp to carry it around for you.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Olevet, one time California voters passed a proposition requiring all auto insurance companies to cut premiums so that effectively all of them would be operating at a loss. The courts tossed it farther than Neptune's left nut.

[Ike]

OK, if you think intellectualism is only for sissies, why are you still on the internet? Nerds built your computer, dorks dreamed up the internet, and geeks made your cell phone small enough that it doesn't take an assistant named Winthorp to carry it around for you.

Humans are the nerds of the animal kingdom...

[GottaHavePride]

Olevet, one time California voters passed a proposition requiring all auto companies to cut premiums so that effectively all of them would be operating at a loss. The courts tossed it farther than Neptune's left nut.


And keep in mind, the left one dangles farther.

[Okla-homey]

fought for four years barefoot with little food and no shelter for 4 years against superior numbers with superior equipment?

Myth.

Cooked up by Confederate apologists in the early 20th century to help explain the defeat. Said apologists would have folks believe the Rebs were fighting with slingshots against the Yankee Goliath.

The fact is, as late as the war's last winter, Confederate troops were well-armed and equipped. As to the North's superior numbers, that is true in terms of total population of men capable military service, but in the vast majority of battles, in both the eastern and western theaters, there was no great disparity in the numbers engaged on each side.

The advantage southern forces enjoyed was in the quality of leadership in the eastern theater. That held true until Grant was given overall command in the east in 1864. In the west, the Rebs only won one battle of consequence; Chickamauga in September 1863. The rest of the time, they had their butts handed to them.

[The]

OK, if you think intellectualism is only for sissies, why are you still on the internet? Nerds built your computer, dorks dreamed up the internet, and geeks made your cell phone small enough that it doesn't take an assistant named Winthorp to carry it around for you.

I have an assistant. Named Katy. She has large breasts.

And 'effete' in this case is an adjective to describe our Terrorist Loving friend's particular brand of intellectualism. As a member of America's Cultural Elite, I praise intellectualism above all virtues except obedience.

I suggest for you gentle sir, a dictionary, also provided 'dorks' and 'geeks'.

[Oldnslo]

Note to self: don't show The the big red button.

[StoopTroup]

No, it is effete intellectualism.

PbAoXw_DqvM

[The]

Note to self: don't show The the big red button.

Show me the big red button.

[StoopTroup]

2OexRCTazEk

[The]

2OexRCTazEk
I never did trust the Japanese.

[StoopTroup]

ESv55r4emPY&feature=fvw

[LosAngelesSooner]

Personaly I DGARA I dint vote for this bill, But if 70 % of the Voters say they want it , then a Fed, Judge needs to STFU

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101108/ap_on_re_us/us_islamic_law_lawsuit
Yes.

That's how our country was set up to run by our Founding Fathers.

What? You don't love your country? :pop:

[LosAngelesSooner]

Pansy? The south's troops fought with old equipment, often barefoot, they froze to death, starved to death, and were outnumbered more than 2-1 and still whipped the Union's *** for 4 years. You can say all you want about their cause and you can make whatever asinine and stupid little insulting bull**** quips you want but they were anything but "pansy."

When was the last time your p***y *** fought for four years barefoot with little food and no shelter for 4 years against superior numbers with superior equipment? Yeah...STFU.

And there was absolutely nothing treasonous about their actions. From the moment the first colony was founded until after the war, most Americans considered themselves first and foremost a citizen of their state. The states created this country and this government -- not the other way around. The principles of citizenship were very different at the time. Again, just another ignorant statement.

And if you want to consider an illegal and unconstitutional war to have "settled" an issue like states' rights then that's simply your opinion and not worth much in my book.
When was the last time you got into a hissy scratchy catfight with some dude (or chick) in a bar, barefoot OR shod?

Well, tough guy? :D

The Southerners were treasonous, no honor possessing, slave owning, sinful, un-Christian, inhumane terrorist bastards. And they got what they deserved. :hot:

[Frozen Sooner]

Yes.

That's how our country was set up to run by our Founding Fathers.

What? You don't love your country? :pop:

To be totally accurate, the Founders didn't speak to this in the Constitution.

However, the Post-war amendments, particularly the Fourteenth, did.

[LosAngelesSooner]

And it's a living document which corrects itself and evolves to accommodate our society.

Which it does.

So racist amendments, no matter how "approved by the people" can be shot down.

[NormanPride]

I want to see The argue with skull. I think it would be epic.

[Frozen Sooner]

You don't even really need the "living document" deal on this. The document was amended to cover state laws of this nature.

[The]

And it's a living document which corrects itself and evolves to accommodate our society.

Which it does.

So racist amendments, no matter how "approved by the people" can be shot down.

http://i521.photobucket.com/albums/w336/logieal/lukeinfridge.jpg

[Frozen Sooner]

I don't know what that's supposed to mean, but it's awesome.

[The]

I don't know what that's supposed to mean, but it's awesome.


Waffles. The answer is always waffles.

[3rdgensooner]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/gen3sooner/MiscPictures/465765298_0bbb4a1821.jpg

[NormanPride]

Needs more chicken.

[The]

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f201/fatalvenom13/1271853647202.jpg

[LosAngelesSooner]

That is SO wrong...and awesome.

[soonerchk]

All it means to me is that 70% of the voters in OK are idiots. I personally would have bet it would be closer to 80%. :pop:

[tommieharris91]

Waffles. The answer is always waffles.

Nah. The answer is always Hitler.

Or Kevin Wilson.

[3rdgensooner]

Paprikash!

[soonerchk]

I like waffles.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Okay, in my opinion Vickie Miles-LaGrange is a nut job and where in the hell was Edmondson? Why didn't he file a brief? That seems as if sour grapes or dereliction of duty.

[saucysoonergal]

Anybody you disagree with is a nut-job?



Must be a lot of those around then. ;)

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Does Awad have standing? He is not from Oklahoma and he flew in to file the challenge. He is not an OK Bar member, does that mean anything in this case?

[The]

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/northavebeachbum/random%20pics%20to%20post/MichaelJFox-ShakenNotStirred.gif

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Anybody you disagree with is a nut-job?



Must be a lot of those around then. ;)

;) No, she just has been one for some time, out there...IMO

[dwarthog]

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/northavebeachbum/random%20pics%20to%20post/MichaelJFox-ShakenNotStirred.gif


That's just not right. Funny though.....

[3rdgensooner]

The's just not right. Funny though.....True

[Frozen Sooner]

Does Awad have standing? He is not from Oklahoma and he flew in to file the challenge. He is not an OK Bar member, does that mean anything in this case?

He's not from Oklahoma? He's the Oklahoma director for CAIR. Even if he doesn't live in Oklahoma itself, he could likely file the suit in the name of CAIR, and they'd likely be able to get around the general bar on third-party standing.

How would whether or not he's an Oklahoma bar member doesn't affect whether he has standing? The injury alleged has nothing to do with the practice of law, but that the state has singled out his faith for disapproval.

[Viking Kitten]

Muneer Awad has been a resident of Oklahoma for a month and is representing himself pro se (without an attorney).

The Attorney General's office staff attorney who argued against Awad's lawsuit Monday did not bring up residency. He said Awad lacked standing to sue because he has not suffered an injury in fact and that no injury is imminent or possible. The AG's office also argued that for a federal court to enjoin the results of a state election is virtually unprecedented. The lawsuit was filed late last week and the staff attorney said he had no time to prepare a written brief but would do so by the Nov. 22 hearing.

[StoopTroup]

A wad. LOL :pop:

http://turbo.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2010/07/Beavis-Butthead-Returns.jpg

[Frozen Sooner]

The AG's claim that he's alleged no injury-in-fact seems specious. Again, he's alleged that the state has singled out his religion for disapprobation. That's sufficed in any number of suits for injury.

As for the claim that a federal court has rarely enjoined the results of a state election...so? I can't think of a time since the enactment of the 14th Amendment where a state referendum has condemned a suspect class.

[Viking Kitten]

Well. It took Judge VML roughly one hour in recess to come to apparently the same conclusion. You're faster than she is. :P