Give credit to Stoops...

[Soonermagik]

He called the perfect fake field goal and Hanna dropped a likely game winner. He then made the smart call to kick a field goal and then the next TD wins the game. We all know that O'hara missed. However, earlier in the game he made one, so Stoops thought he could replicate it. Folks, in order to win big games you have to make 40 yard field goals.

This isn't all on the coaching staff. In fact, the players lost this game. I'm the 1st to admit when this team has been out coached. Trust me, last night they weren't out-coached. The same could be said in the Missouri game. Jones tossed 2 picks and Madu fumbled or they likely win that game. When do we stop blaming Stoops and staff and start looking at the players???

[Soonermagik]

Well crap... I just saw the this one is on the players thread.

[OU-HSV]

He called the perfect fake field goal and Hanna dropped a likely game winner. He then made the smart call to kick a field goal and then the next TD wins the game. We all know that O'hara missed. However, earlier in the game he made one, so Stoops thought he could replicate it. Folks, in order to win big games you have to make 40 yard field goals.

This isn't all on the coaching staff. In fact, the players lost this game. I'm the 1st to admit when this team has been out coached. Trust me, last night they weren't out-coached. The same could be said in the Missouri game. Jones tossed 2 picks and Madu fumbled or they likely win that game. When do we stop blaming Stoops and staff and start looking at the players???

In regards to these couple of specific play calls, the fake fg and then the playcall of the fg (which Ohara badly missed), those were good calls. Point wise they seemed to make since. And since O'hara nailed the 45 yarder, you like to think he would've nailed the 35 or 36 yarder. I loved the fake fg, it's just too bad Hanna couldn't catch it. Props to Nimmo for an absolutely perfect throw.

So I'll agree that this loss is also on the players for multiple reasons, but the coaching was questionable at times. Mostly it seemed to me that we got away from the ground attack too early in the first half. And then the big problems at the goal line. No creativity/no play action pass on that last series (not that we had a good chance of making that miracle comeback at that point of the game, BUT there's no reason with zero timeouts left to be running THREE times in a row after it's gotten nowhere once or twice before against their run D). That situation was pathetic coaching IMO.

And one thing to keep in mind is the coaches are the ones who ultimately place these players on the field, so it of course in a way still does trail back to the coaches after all. I mean maybe Hannah wasn't the best option to throw that fake fg to, maybe someone with better hands should've been playing that role. It seems he has dropped some passes throughout the year. (I'm just using him for an example, not trying to bust his balls)

[Soonermagik]

In regards to these couple of specific play calls, the fake fg and then the playcall of the fg (which Ohara badly missed), those were good calls. Point wise they seemed to make since. And since O'hara nailed the 45 yarder, you like to think he would've nailed the 35 or 36 yarder. I loved the fake fg, it's just too bad Hanna couldn't catch it. Props to Nimmo for an absolutely perfect throw.

So I'll agree that this loss is also on the players for multiple reasons, but the coaching was questionable at times. Mostly it seemed to me that we got away from the ground attack too early in the first half. And then the big problems at the goal line. No creativity/no play action pass on that last series (not that we had a good chance of making that miracle comeback at that point of the game, BUT there's no reason with zero timeouts left to be running THREE times in a row after it's gotten nowhere once or twice before against their run D). That situation was pathetic coaching IMO.

And one thing to keep in mind is the coaches are the ones who ultimately place these players on the field, so it of course in a way still does trail back to the coaches after all. I mean maybe Hannah wasn't the best option to throw that fake fg to, maybe someone with better hands should've been playing that role. It seems he has dropped some passes throughout the year. (I'm just using him for an example, not trying to bust his balls)

Didn't Hanna make some nice catches against FSU and *? I think he just dropped the ball, which happens. However, it couldn't have happened at a worse time. I don't think they had a lot of options to throw the ball to other players, because they were in a FG formation. If they had put Broyles, Stills etc in people would have known it was a fake.

I think they were trying to establish the run and Murray was just bottled up. The O-line didn't get much push and that hurt us. I think the coaches have to find a way to win on the road and quickly. Still have several big road games that must convert to wins.

[UteSooner]

I thought the fake was a good play. If that catch is made I don't think A&M recovers the momentum ever again. However, we shouldn't have needed that one play so badly. Why did we abandon the run so quickly in the second half? I thought we were just trying to get the big play and put the game away at the expense of what was working. We keep grinding it out like we were and I bet we win. That is not on the players (even though I know you could make the argument about no execution of the plays called).

[HolaKyle]

It hard not to blame the coaches for the goaline situations.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

[tcrb]

I liked the calls that Stoops made. But there's plenty of blame to spread around on this one. Players failing to execute and Wilson being his stubborn self. We lost. Stoops needs to figure out how to fix the mental errors and how to pull Kevin's head outta his a$$ when the game is on the line. The D wasn't stellar, but they played good enough to win this one if OUr offense hadn't left 38 points on the field last night. Score shoulda been 57-33.

[badger]

And unlike Hook em and :mack:, Stoops still has his players motivated and on board for his program. Alas, it wasn't meant to be this week. NP and I will be in attendance next week regardless though, so hope you'll all join us too :)

[SoonerMustang]

"Everybody has their opinion on how you ought to run your team. When they get theirs, they can run it how they want, and we'll run ours how we like. It's seems to be OK. It's worked out all right for us." Bob Stoops



Things that make you go HMMMMMM.....

[East Coast Bias]

The goal line calls definetely exposed our poor coaching/coachs. Credit to them for making half time adjustments(which they usually don't) but it was frustrating to see them once again move away from what was working. The run strategy seemed to be easier for the line to execute and took a of of pressure off Landry. The play calling was not good and did not give our players the best chance to win. Did anyone notice the shovel-pass they ran in the second half? Where was that call when they were rushing everyone in the first half?

[OU-HSV]

Didn't Hanna make some nice catches against FSU and *? I think he just dropped the ball, which happens. However, it couldn't have happened at a worse time. I don't think they had a lot of options to throw the ball to other players, because they were in a FG formation. If they had put Broyles, Stills etc in people would have known it was a fake.

I think they were trying to establish the run and Murray was just bottled up. The O-line didn't get much push and that hurt us. I think the coaches have to find a way to win on the road and quickly. Still have several big road games that must convert to wins.

You're probably right about the FSU game, but seems I've seen him drop some balls, even for td's. Anyways, like you said, we couldn't have put a WR in the fg formation, we needed someone that looked less suspicious. And since Hanna is probably taller than our other t.e. options, like ratteree..it was probably the only choice. Anyway, I was just using that for an example.

I agree they need to figure out whats wrong and get it fixed. I recall typing that very same thing after multiple bowl losses as well. So that dates back several years now (aside from the Sun Bowl of course).

[StoopTroup]

I mean maybe Hannah wasn't the best option to throw that fake fg to, maybe someone with better hands should've been playing that role. It seems he has dropped some passes throughout the year. (I'm just using him for an example, not trying to bust his balls)

I figured I'd let a few of you calm down a bit before trying to talk again as the folks who had consumed their weight in beer were more in the mood to kill Dr. Frankenstien (Bob) and draw and quarter his assistants BV and KW.

The folks who want to fire someone are out again in full force. Bob had turned the game around and was fighting his way back to taking the lead in the game. He put all the players in the best spots he could in order to win. The fake FG is obviously not a "Genius" call....it's just the best call he could make because his FG kicker is awful. Remember when Bobby Bowden had an awful FG kicker a few years back? He got made fun of Nationally. That was ugly and this is ugly. The Coaches are 100% responsible for our failed kicking game. The loss of Matt Moreland for kickoffs seemed like something we could overcome as many people though he sucked anyway. I felt he wasn't the best we'd ever had but he had gotten much better than when he walked on to Campus and he understood what the Special Teams Coaches wanted from him. He's gone and we struggle on kickoffs. Imagine that. Paddy is awful. Whether it's in his head or a lack of practice...you can't depend on him. I'm not sure firing a Coach will fix that unless the Coach you hire knows someone he can bring to Campus to be our new kicker.

Hanna....

He was right where he was supposed to be...he didn't make the catch and the momentum of the game changed again. We were then pressed by the clock to make a miracle happen and miracles don't always happen on the road when you make as many mistakes as we did last night.

Yeah Coaches suck when they can't get players to make miracles....but when players make mistakes they make the need for miracles a must. We ran ourselves into more than one corner last night. We deserved to lose and lose we did.

You can go back over the replay which I have done now and see 20 ways we could have won that game and the Coaches put our guys in the position to win it. Fire someone? I think that's crazy...The players lost that one

[StoopTroup]

It hard not to blame the coaches for the goaline situations.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

Catch phrases are fun when you can make them mean something.

Let's face it...if you knew we'd be unable to punch it in we would have called a different play. But...We've got Demarco Murray! He's gotten the damn ball in the EZ so many times that you make the call to send him. On top of that...do you think DM thought he couldn't get in the EZ? Not a chance. TAMU's D was on fire. They stopped us. Should we work on our Red Zone scoring? I'd say you might be right in that KW might want to think about what old Albert wrote....but I still can't blame him for believing in his players executing. They got beat...plain and simple. Those plays work when you're executing. We looked awful and they looked like they'd been shooting steroids all week.

[rainiersooner]

You can go back over the replay which I have done now and see 20 ways we could have won that game and the Coaches put our guys in the position to win it. Fire someone? I think that's crazy...The players lost that one

Isn't that the biggest evidence that the coaches, for the whole part, put the players in a position to win? In a 14 point loss, I can think of 17 points that the players should have - and would normally have - executed: (1) Landry overshooting a wide open Stills, (2) Hanna catching the ball that hit him in his hands, and (3) O'hara...need I say more?

Losing sucks - but firing Venables is not always the answer.

[OUHOMER]

I agree ST, they ( players) had every opportunity to win this game. Dropped passes, bad passes, bad decision making for the QB.

I still think Landry has upside, but man, seems like he Mr Jeckle and Mr Hide sometimes.

[DenverSooner751]

I agree with the observation that this one falls on the players. There was some play calling that I would question some in the 4th quarter but that is all moot if the other peices would've fallen in place the way they were set up to.

[ictsooner7]

Seriously??? Did you not see the four plays from inside the 3, all right up the middle that we didn’t score on? Who runs up the middle on 4th down when you can’t get it over on the three previous plays? Whose fault is it that the most prestigious program in the country does not have a kicker that can kick a 40 yr field goal?

[OU-HSV]

I figured I'd let a few of you calm down a bit before trying to talk again as the folks who had consumed their weight in beer were more in the mood to kill Dr. Frankenstien (Bob) and draw and quarter his assistants BV and KW.

The folks who want to fire someone are out again in full force. Bob had turned the game around and was fighting his way back to taking the lead in the game. He put all the players in the best spots he could in order to win. The fake FG is obviously not a "Genius" call....it's just the best call he could make because his FG kicker is awful. Remember when Bobby Bowden had an awful FG kicker a few years back? He got made fun of Nationally. That was ugly and this is ugly. The Coaches are 100% responsible for our failed kicking game. The loss of Matt Moreland for kickoffs seemed like something we could overcome as many people though he sucked anyway. I felt he wasn't the best we'd ever had but he had gotten much better than when he walked on to Campus and he understood what the Special Teams Coaches wanted from him. He's gone and we struggle on kickoffs. Imagine that. Paddy is awful. Whether it's in his head or a lack of practice...you can't depend on him. I'm not sure firing a Coach will fix that unless the Coach you hire knows someone he can bring to Campus to be our new kicker.

Hanna....

He was right where he was supposed to be...he didn't make the catch and the momentum of the game changed again. We were then pressed by the clock to make a miracle happen and miracles don't always happen on the road when you make as many mistakes as we did last night.

Yeah Coaches suck when they can't get players to make miracles....but when players make mistakes they make the need for miracles a must. We ran ourselves into more than one corner last night. We deserved to lose and lose we did.

You can go back over the replay which I have done now and see 20 ways we could have won that game and the Coaches put our guys in the position to win it. Fire someone? I think that's crazy...The players lost that one

I think you were quoting me specifically to talk about Hanna. I wasn't saying to fire the coaches so I hope I didn't give that impression. But I still say, aside from the multiple mistakes the players made, the coaching staff has had some suspect playcalling in certain situations. I'm not just talking about this game, but games in the past as well, including multiple bowl losses.
To me last night's loss can be spread around among mostly the players' mistakes (I agree with you there), but coaching was suspect at times too so I'm not letting the coaches off the hook completely.
Ultimately it doesn't matter. People (including myself at times) can bitch about BV and KW all they/we want. The bottom line is that Stoops is either sold on them that they are full of "greatness" or he is too stubborn and/or respectful to force them out. And IMO with inconsistent performances as we've seen this season and previous seasons, those guys probably haven't been hired as head coaches for that reason.

[Soonerite]

That dropped pass in the endzone will haunt me for years to come.

[StoopTroup]

That dropped pass in the endzone will haunt me for years to come.

Imagine how hanna feels

[soonercastor]

NO you can't say the COACHES put the players in a position to WIN then say the PLAYERS didn't execute, so when is it ever the coach's fault? The DEFENSE put the OFFENSE in a position to win and they failed.

How someone defends running the ball OVER and OVER at the goal line baffles me, it's like KW took it personally and was trying to prove a point there.

[budbarrybob]

Catch phrases are fun when you can make them mean something.

Let's face it...if you knew we'd be unable to punch it in we would have called a different play. But...We've got Demarco Murray! He's gotten the damn ball in the EZ so many times that you make the call to send him. On top of that...do you think DM thought he couldn't get in the EZ? Not a chance. TAMU's D was on fire. They stopped us. Should we work on our Red Zone scoring? I'd say you might be right in that KW might want to think about what old Albert wrote....but I still can't blame him for believing in his players executing. They got beat...plain and simple. Those plays work when you're executing. We looked awful and they looked like they'd been shooting steroids all week.

ST is a Wilson apologist? who knew. I'm not in the fire anyone camp. But lets face it, Wilson deserves to be ridiculed and seriously questioned - even nationally. He single handedly made our GL offense look like a Pop Warner team, yah know the one's who are too young to attempt a forward pass?
Sad thing is, TAM's defense is not That good. They have 1 outstanding player who for nearly the entire second half spent his *** on the turf nursing cramps. But... Wilson made them into the "Wrecking Crew" - congratulations.

And yes Albert was right. And "if at first you don't succeed, try, try, again" doesn't apply at the goal line...

[SouthFortySooner]

I liked the calls that Stoops made. But there's plenty of blame to spread around on this one. Players failing to execute and Wilson being his stubborn self. We lost. Stoops needs to figure out how to fix the mental errors and how to pull Kevin's head outta his a$$ when the game is on the line. The D wasn't stellar, but they played good enough to win this one if OUr offense hadn't left 38 points on the field last night. Score shoulda been 57-33.

You are as I expect, one of 'those' kind of fans who feel you are sitting in a place to blame. I watch the games and am simply moved by the outcome.

[StoopTroup]

If folks want to label me as an apologist...they can feel whatever way they want about it. I could care less. I just live a life anymore that there is The way we want it to be, The way it should be and The way it really is.

The way it really is usually wins and in this case I don't get to fire a Coach and neither does the Monster. IMO...remember...this is an opinion....it might not be the way it really is...:D....

As long as Switzer and Boren are around to support Bob and Joe Castiglione...Bob might get some opnions thrown at him but the pressure that Barry and Gary Gibbs endured won't happen again and anyone that thinks crying around on a message board or a Sports Writer lobbing hard ball questions at a Head Coach in a press conference is gonna get them to fire a Coach or maybe even make changes...well....they are delusional.

I'm not sure how many folks on here have actually been to one of the Press Conferences either. I've been lucky to attend a few of them over the years. Hardball Questions do get asked but they usually aren't on the air. Also...Wilson and Venables do interviews after games with the sports writers. Folks that think they get a pass are wrong. They might get a pass on the on air stuff but the writers have always had the ability to ask anything they want as long as they show some respect....however...that doesn't always happen either.

[boomermagic]

Imagine how hanna feels

ST ole buddy I agree with some of what you said but I also gotta agree with some others here.. The team as a whole are not motivated and not ready to play many times That my friend falls back to coaching and you can say what ya want about Wilson or Venables but the responsible man is Bob.. Now, nowhere here am I saying fire Bob I'm just telling ya the way it is.. Think back, We can go all the way back to the usc bowl game and see lack of motivation Our players have to be motivated by the coaching staff they have to be ready to play so many times they aren't ready I know you can see that.. I'm not claiming to have all the amswers but it's not as simple as the players blew it either.. Why did they blow it ? They many times are not prepared/motivated to play lights out football. Just my opinion..

[boomermagic]

ST is a Wilson apologist? who knew. I'm not in the fire anyone camp. But lets face it, Wilson deserves to be ridiculed and seriously questioned - even nationally. He single handedly made our GL offense look like a Pop Warner team, yah know the one's who are too young to attempt a forward pass?
Sad thing is, TAM's defense is not That good. They have 1 outstanding player who for nearly the entire second half spent his *** on the turf nursing cramps. But... Wilson made them into the "Wrecking Crew" - congratulations.

And yes Albert was right. And "if at first you don't succeed, try, try, again" doesn't apply at the goal line...

Hey, The running game was working early in the 3rd quarter then we went away from the run for some reason.. Wilson has said BOB favors the pass more I'm sure Bob wanted to throw the ball but either way let's not try to judge Wilson he's not responsible BOB IS..