So who here still thinks our coaches...

[OU_Sooners75]

are great?

I have been going to bat for our coaches, especially Venables and Wilson....well....that has now changed, for Wilson at least.


This guy is a ****ing clown!

3 times against a very mediocre defense, we got a first and goal inside the 5 yard line. We come away with ZERO POINTS? Really?

I went to bat for this guy?

I was here after losing to Florida saying Wilson caused that loss. Everyone here was like no way. It was execution. Well, I still stand by that.

Since then, I have got off the hate wagon. I have gone to bat for Wilson, even going so far as saying I would rather have him than any other OC.

Folks, there is a reason no university has come knocking down his door wanting him as a Head Coach.

The same can be said of Venables, but I think he just needs to fix our 4th quarter Defensive let downs.

Anyway, back to Wilson.

We had ****ty play calling against Florida, Missouri, and by far the worst against a crappy A&M team.

A team that lost to Missouri 30-9 in college station.

I know OU has a much bigger target on their uniforms. But you cannot pin this on execution or the players. When you run just 1 pass play out of 12 plays, inside the 5 yard line and you come away with ZERO POINTS...that is play calling.

No play action. Just hand off to murray or millard up the middle and hope that our 5 front can block 8 and get a push.

LOL

no sweeps. No playaction passes. Nothing but iso's up the damn gut!

Yeah, Wilson...You suck!

If Stoops cannot see this, then he is just as bad!

And to think he just got a $200,000 raise....for what?

Hire Mangino or Leach back! I know they would love to get back into coaching.

[landrun]

Mangino and Long both sucked too.

I'd rather see us replace Venables than Wilson. At least Wilson had a good year in 08'. Venables has consistently been average, at best.

[soonervegas]

Good, not great. It will take a very unusual circumstance for Bob to hold up another crystal ball.....

He is just collecting a fat paycheck at this point....

[cccasooner2]

Mangino and Long both sucked too.

I'd rather see us replace Venables than Wilson. At least Bradford had a good year in 08'. Venables has consistently been average, at best.

Fixed.

[MyT Oklahoma]

Can anyone think of any other program in the country who has our level of talent but wastes that talent better than us?

[OUthunder]

My Kansas family won't even trade Turner Gill straight up for Wilson or Venables.

[jumperstop]

Can anyone think of any other program in the country who has our level of talent but wastes that talent better than us?

Texas?

[MyT Oklahoma]

^^ Okay.. then we'll just have to beat *'s "you can call the plays from the Golden Corrall" offer to Mangino.

[MyT Oklahoma]

Texas?

Well.. okay.. but we did beat these guys this year didn't we? And on a neutral field. LOL

[fadada1]

Can anyone think of any other program in the country who has our level of talent but wastes that talent better than us?
yup. and they're smack dab in the middle of austin, tx.

[Leroy Lizard]

Can anyone think of any other program in the country who has our level of talent but wastes that talent better than us?

Uhhhhh, YEAH!!

They're stadium is south of Norman.

[OU_Sooners75]

Mangino and Long both sucked too.

I'd rather see us replace Venables than Wilson. At least Wilson had a good year in 08'. Venables has consistently been average, at best.


I dont recall mangino being shut out of the endzone on three separate drives when given first and goal from inside the 5!

I cannot recall the same from Chuck Long either.

[OU_Sooners75]

Can anyone think of any other program in the country who has our level of talent but wastes that talent better than us?


Greg Davis and Texas!!!

[Veritas]

You're missing a good man in the most important position on the field, QB. You've got a good D but Landry Jones is just...dumb. If OU had a competent QB, this would be an undefeated season.

So...take heart. I guarandamntee you that Stoops & Co are going to bring in a QB.

[delhalew]

Yeah you win. I'm tired of trying defend his ***.

[Denver_Sooner]

If Stoops lost to Fla St in 2000, and the rest of history played out as it has, his job would not be as safe today as it is. For now, he is still invincible.

[Leroy Lizard]

You're missing a good man in the most important position on the field, QB. You've got a good D but Landry Jones is just...dumb.

Totally un****ing called for! WTF is wrong with you?!?! Seriously!

[Gilligan]

Bring back Leach

[delhalew]

You're missing a good man in the most important position on the field, QB. You've got a good D but Landry Jones is just...dumb. If OU had a competent QB, this would be an undefeated season.

So...take heart. I guarandamntee you that Stoops & Co are going to bring in a QB.

Well. If your QB has a tendency to get all ****tarded, do you abandon the run...repeatedly? Except of course on the goal line. Then you only run.

I think it is foolish to criticize play calling, but everybody knows you need some balance.
Somebody in the game thread said it best. I think Wilson is just the most stubborn ******* on the planet. Well, except for Bob.

[Curly Bill]

Both KW and BV are mediocre...

...been saying it forever now...

...glad to see more of you are catching on...

...well not really because it takes a pathetic performance like tonight for some of ya to see it...

...oh well...

...at least Bob is still surrounded by his friends, and I guess that's what's important...

[Leroy Lizard]

Both KW and BV are mediocre...

...been saying it forever now...

There's a sparkling revelation.

[oumartin]

NO NO NO, Curly Bill and I are about the only ones consistantly sayin' somethings gotta change. You guys all went to bat for your boys. You need to keep defending all the way to the OSU cowboy big 12 championship.

[Curly Bill]

There's a sparkling revelation.

...and it's still the truth dumas. :D

[StoopTroup]

If Stoops lost to Fla St in 2000, and the rest of history played out as it has, his job would not be as safe today as it is. For now, he is still invincible.

Well maybe you can go talk Boren into giving it back.

[rainiersooner]

I've run out of excuses...especially the ISOs up the middle inside the five yard line again and again and again.

[Leroy Lizard]

...and it's still the truth dumas. :D

I would respect your opinion more if you didn't play your typical disappearing act when OU wins.

[Curly Bill]

I would respect your opinion more if you didn't play your typical disappearing act when OU wins.

I'm hardly ever on here anymore win, lose, or draw.

It may be because of the presence of clueless f*cks such as yourself. ;)

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm hardly ever on here anymore win, lose, or draw.


We lost, and here you are. As always. Just like clockwork.

[Curly Bill]

We lost, and here you are. As always. Just like clockwork.

I just wanted to see if you were still sniffing the collective sack of the coaching staff, and here you are - just like clockwork.

[SOONER44EVER]

Mangino and Long both sucked too.

I'd rather see us replace Venables than Wilson. At least Wilson had a good year in 08'. Venables has consistently been average, at best.

Long sucked. Mangino was pretty good.

[CarolinaSoonerFan]

Both KW and BV are mediocre...

...been saying it forever now...

...glad to see more of you are catching on...

...well not really because it takes a pathetic performance like tonight for some of ya to see it...

...oh well...

...at least Bob is still surrounded by his friends, and I guess that's what's important...


I've seen this for awhile now ......just wish the one guy who can make the change would see it and soon

[SOONER44EVER]

I just wanted to see if you were still sniffing the collective sack of the coaching staff, and here you are - just like clockwork.

Heh!!!

[Leroy Lizard]

I just wanted to see if you were still sniffing the collective sack of the coaching staff, and here you are - just like clockwork.

:rolleyes:

[StoopTroup]

I think Bob is gonna pack it in.

[SOONER44EVER]

NO NO NO, Curly Bill and I are about the only ones consistantly sayin' somethings gotta change. You guys all went to bat for your boys. You need to keep defending all the way to the OSU cowboy big 12 championship. I've been saying it for 4 years. I just get tired of repeating myself after every road game.

[silverwheels]

Our coaches are great...



















...in Norman. Average or maybe barely above elsewhere.

[cyclonesooner]

I think it's pretty obvious that the coordinating we are seeing now is not working. Pretty darn clear after last nite. No way we lose to the Aggies, but you could see it coming from a mile away. No way we deserve to win.

[SoonerMustang]

“We clawed our way back and missed some opportunities on three different occasions down on the 1-yard line,” Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops said. “I'm proud of the way we fought back. We played hard, A&M just played better.”

You fought back in ONE QUARTER! The rest of the 45 minutes was spent looking for our a$$!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

and as i've said every single time you've posted this. there is also a downside to moving coaches.

right now, we lose 2 recruiting classes at the position the new coach comes in at. it has happened every time we've brought someone in to coach a position.

anyone we bring in has to be considered a flight risk. are we willing to get one good year out of someone for what has happened at florida state? miami? usc?

[StoopTroup]

“We clawed our way back and missed some opportunities on three different occasions down on the 1-yard line,” Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops said. “I'm proud of the way we fought back. We played hard, A&M just played better.”

You fought back in ONE QUARTER! The rest of the 45 minutes was spent looking for our a$$!

Good post. You didn't even fire anyone. WTH? :D

[mightysooner]

I think Bob is gonna pack it in.

He packed it in years ago. He's just on cruise control.

[TahoeSOONER]

We're a finesse offense that want's to put it's big boy pants on when it counts and we continue to fail at the goalline.

I'll admit that the KW put his creative pencil down on a few plays but he's a fine coordinator and deserves better than this thread.

It's a team game and our special teams are not so special again. Landry isn't dumb and if you had a offensive tackle getting owned every other play, if the DE ins't cramping up, you'd get happy feet too. The middle of our defensive line should have a hump on its back because it looks like it belongs in a cellar shocking frankenstien with a limp. The dudes a warrior but were not getting a push up the middle and they are getting into the second level of our defense with their Oline.

This is all before we get to turnovers.

All I know is KW and BV deserve better than this thread in my opinion.

[StoopTroup]

and as i've said every single time you've posted this. there is also a downside to moving coaches.

right now, we lose 2 recruiting classes at the position the new coach comes in at. it has happened every time we've brought someone in to coach a position.

anyone we bring in has to be considered a flight risk. are we willing to get one good year out of someone for what has happened at florida state? miami? usc?

Bingo.

We are still a pretty damn good team every year. Folks forget that the 7 National Championships we have are wrapped around quite a few years of football where we didn't always win every game. This team we have this year is still better than last years team with one exception. Sam Bradford and Jermaine Gresham getting hurt early last year would have made us contenders instead of rebuilding and ending up 8-5 with a win in the Sun Bowl against a pretty damn good Stanford Team. Landry knows he's not Sam and maybe that's starting to get to him. I think he plays pretty good 80% of the time out there but he's not as Strong a QB as we expect. QB's we've had since Josh won it all have been tough SOBs. Landry just doesn't seem like the chizeled out kind of "I'll take your best shot" kind of guy. That being said...I think he's become a much better passer than last year but he still makes mistakes.

Baylor here we come. They'll be chomping at the bit just like tamu. We better get ready.

[cdlbdd]

And to think he just got a $200,000 raise....for what?



You are wrong. $45,000 raise.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OU/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20101028_92_B7_TheUni77527

[mightysooner]

Give Vulnerables and Wilson a raise!

[SouthFortySooner]

I like our coaches because they are, 'our', coaches. I like our Sooners because they are 'our' Sooners.

I am comfortable enough to know pantie wringing on a message board doesn't help us win any more than your suggestions would.

[Leroy Lizard]

I like our coaches because they are, 'our', coaches. I like our Sooners because they are 'our' Sooners.

I am comfortable enough to know pantie wringing on a message board doesn't help us win any more than your suggestions would.

This.

[MyT Oklahoma]

I can appreciate everybody's viewpoints.. however.. nothing is gonna change before next Saturday. Let's get ready for Baylor.

[StoopTroup]

I can appreciate everybody's viewpoints.. however.. nothing is gonna change before next Saturday. Let's get ready for Baylor.

I'm gonna change my Gameday Shirt. Last nights is in the garage sale pile.

[East Coast Bias]

Doesn't seem like any of our guys are a "flight risk"...........

[Scott D]

See here is the problem I have with a thread like this.

in 2001 Mark Mangino was the problem...he's off to Kansas and replaced with Chuck Long.

in 2005 Chuck Long was the problem....he's off to San Diego State and replaced with Kevin Wilson

now in 2010 Kevin Wilson is the problem...he may be gone, he may not. But I'm sure he'd be replaced with Josh Heupel.

So the question becomes, will it be 2012, 13 or 14 before it's time to run Heupel out of town because he's as much of a failure to fickle fans as the Offensive Coordinators before him?

[boomermagic]

You're missing a good man in the most important position on the field, QB. You've got a good D but Landry Jones is just...dumb. If OU had a competent QB, this would be an undefeated season.

So...take heart. I guarandamntee you that Stoops & Co are going to bring in a QB.

I will guarantee they already have a qb..:rolleyes:

[OU_Sooners75]

We're a finesse offense that want's to put it's big boy pants on when it counts and we continue to fail at the goalline.

I'll admit that the KW put his creative pencil down on a few plays but he's a fine coordinator and deserves better than this thread.

It's a team game and our special teams are not so special again. Landry isn't dumb and if you had a offensive tackle getting owned every other play, if the DE ins't cramping up, you'd get happy feet too. The middle of our defensive line should have a hump on its back because it looks like it belongs in a cellar shocking frankenstien with a limp. The dudes a warrior but were not getting a push up the middle and they are getting into the second level of our defense with their Oline.

This is all before we get to turnovers.

All I know is KW and BV deserve better than this thread in my opinion.

OK...since you say he is a fine coordinator...and he is when we are in Norman....But lets look at away record since becoming the OC (2006), shall we?

Yeah, not so great....OU is 18-16 away from Norman with him as our OC.

But lets be fair, since 2004 (first year of BV as DC) OU is 24-20 away from Norman.

Im sorry, but these records do not indicate being fine coordinators.

Do I think they are total crap? No. But we should have a better road record than we do when you compare our home record under Stoops is 71-2 and his away record is 53-29.

[Jdog]

What do we expect - BV and Kdub came from Kansas State and Northwestern. really, what should we expect?

[OU_Sooners75]

See here is the problem I have with a thread like this.

in 2001 Mark Mangino was the problem...he's off to Kansas and replaced with Chuck Long.

in 2005 Chuck Long was the problem....he's off to San Diego State and replaced with Kevin Wilson

now in 2010 Kevin Wilson is the problem...he may be gone, he may not. But I'm sure he'd be replaced with Josh Heupel.

So the question becomes, will it be 2012, 13 or 14 before it's time to run Heupel out of town because he's as much of a failure to fickle fans as the Offensive Coordinators before him?

Here is the other problem I see with your comment:

Mangino was our OC for just 2 seasons, 2000-01, before a major university came along and hired him as their head coach.

Chuck Long was our OC for just 4 seasons, 2002-05, before a FBS school came along and hired him as their head coach.

Kevin Wilson is in his 5th season and not once as a FBS team came long and offered him a head coaching job. You do know before coming to OU, Kevin Wilson was the OC at Northwestern for 3 seasons (1999-2001) and the OC at Miami (OH) for 7 seasons (1992-1998).

For Wilson this states a lot when he has had 15 years experience as a Coordinator and he has not been hired as a Head Coach.

There are worse out there, but there are also better that a program like OU should be able to pull in.

And what is bad Scott...up until watching the game last night, I had a lot of faith in Wilson...not so much anymore when he proved that he is completely incompetent inside the 5 yard line, not one time, but three times!

[OU_Sooners75]

What do we expect - BV and Kdub came from Kansas State and Northwestern. really, what should we expect?


BV has done a good enough job to put us in position to win (except for two games). Kevin Wilson has done a good enough job at showing us how to have brain farts when on the road.

[TahoeSOONER]

OK...since you say he is a fine coordinator...and he is when we are in Norman....But lets look at away record since becoming the OC (2006), shall we?

Yeah, not so great....OU is 18-16 away from Norman with him as our OC.

But lets be fair, since 2004 (first year of BV as DC) OU is 24-20 away from Norman.

Im sorry, but these records do not indicate being fine coordinators.

Do I think they are total crap? No. But we should have a better road record than we do when you compare our home record under Stoops is 71-2 and his away record is 53-29.

No doubt it's tougher to win on the road. It's tough to sit and point at these coaches when they are Sooners through and through for years. I like BV although he has trouble adjusting in certain situations. Wilson is a stubborn SOB sometimes and you can see certain frustrations through his playcalling. However, they're OUr generals and you can call me hardheaded but these are my coaches through the good and bad.

They are kind of like my coaches version of George Bush. They are gonna do some good and bad things but dammit I respect the position and the loyalty so I'm gonna go to war with them. I might scratch my head a few times but they both have been great loyal Sooner coaches for a long time and won a lot of championships.

[OU_Sooners75]

No doubt it's tougher to win on the road. It's tough to sit and point at these coaches when they are Sooners through and through for years. I like BV although he has trouble adjusting in certain situations. Wilson is a stubborn SOB sometimes and you can see certain frustrations through his playcalling. However, they're OUr generals and you can call me hardheaded but these are my coaches through the good and bad.

They are kind of like my coaches version of George Bush. They are gonna do some good and bad things but dammit I respect the position and the loyalty so I'm gonna go to war with them. I might scratch my head a few times but they both have been great loyal Sooner coaches for a long time and won a lot of championships.


They may be our Generals, but even Bush forced Generals out when they are were not performing to what he thought they should be.

I am not calling for their heads...but something needs to change. It is easier to change philosphy than it is to change personnel.

I think it is time for Wilson to go back to a more traditional offense and stop trying to do this zone read bull**** when you do not have the personnel to do so.

I love Murray, but he has lost a step or two since arriving in Norman, and that is because of his injuries. Landry Jones is not a runner...he does tend to get happy feet and does not trust his protection after the first time he gets hurried of sacked in a game.

Line us up in a 2 back backfield 3 wide out set. Line us up in a traditional I with a TE. But do something different. Get away from this finess bull****!

[hawaii 5-0]

Texas?


Just what I was thinking.


5-0

[OU_Sooners75]

Okay, I will try to stop the griping now...

I love our Sooners and I think we are a lot better than what we are...I just wish we could be a very consistent. There is a problem, even in Norman when it comes to our 4th quarter play.

Things need to be fixed. Things need to be changed...philosphy or something.

That is my opinion and I am sticking to it.

Anyway, bring on Tech!!!!!

[Always_Sooner]

I am a firm believer that you are only as good as your assistants are. The proof is in the pudding, and it happened in the earlier part of the decade everyone was hiring off OU's assistant tree. Mangino, Leach, Mike Stoops, Sumlin, Chuck Long, Darrel Wyatt, and Jonathan Hayes etc....

[Leroy Lizard]

I think it is time for Wilson to go back to a more traditional offense and stop trying to do this zone read bull**** when you do not have the personnel to do so.


Armchair quarterbacks. You gotta love em! :D

[OU_Sooners75]

Armchair quarterbacks. You gotta love em! :D


I suppose you thought last night's game was called perfectly, right?

STFU and go back to sucking your mom's teat!;)

[pappy]

I am a firm believer that you are only as good as your assistants are. The proof is in the pudding, and it happened in the earlier part of the decade everyone was hiring off OU's assistant tree. Mangino, Leach, Mike Stoops, Sumlin, Chuck Long, Darrel Wyatt, and Jonathan Hayes etc....

yep and the reason KW and BV are still here is not (don't care what they say) because they are choosing to be coordinators instead of head coaches. Its b/c neither 1 of them are deserving of a hc job. They both suck. Stoops should fire both of them at the end of the year and *not* promote from within but go hire someone else (don't ask me who else, not my job to find someone who can win, that's stoops job and he's failing).

I don't care if we luck into winning the rest of our games and by a miracle win a bcs bowl and finish 12-2 this year. If stoops is dumb enough keep both bv and kw as oc and dc then its time for him to go also.

hate me cause I'm right, hate yourself for disagreeing.

[Leroy Lizard]

yep and the reason KW and BV are still here is not (don't care what they say) because they are choosing to be coordinators instead of head coaches. Its b/c neither 1 of them are deserving of a hc job. They both suck. Stoops should fire both of them at the end of the year and *not* promote from within but go hire someone else (don't ask me who else, not my job to find someone who can win, that's stoops job and he's failing).

I don't care if we luck into winning the rest of our games and by a miracle win a bcs bowl and finish 12-2 this year. If stoops is dumb enough keep both bv and kw as oc and dc then its time for him to go also.

hate me cause I'm right, hate yourself for disagreeing.

Let's look back in our crystal ball. It's 1983... and there's pappy! Hi, pappy! He doesn't see us, but we can see that he's writing a letter to the OU athletic department.

"DEAR OU,

CAN'T YOU SEE THAT OUR COACHING STAFF IS A BUNCH OF MORONS? THAT STARTS WITH THE HEAD MORON, SWITZER. WE LOST FOUR GAMES THIS YEAR. FOUR!! JUST LIKE THE LAST TWO YEARS. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO WAKE UP AND REALIZE THAT THE WISHBONE IS DEAD AND THAT ANYONE STUPID ENOUGH TO RUN IT IS A MORON. I WANT NATIONAL TITLES AND WE WILL NEVER WIN ONE WITH THAT MORON, SWITZER. HE'S A MORON.

SINCERELY,

PAPPY

[pappy]

Let's look back in our crystal ball. It's 1983... and there's pappy! Hi, pappy! He doesn't see us, but we can see that he's writing a letter to the OU athletic department.

"DEAR OU,

CAN'T YOU SEE THAT OUR COACHING STAFF IS A BUNCH OF MORONS? THAT STARTS WITH THE HEAD MORON, SWITZER. WE LOST FOUR GAMES THIS YEAR. FOUR!! JUST LIKE THE LAST TWO YEARS. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO WAKE UP AND REALIZE THAT THE WISHBONE IS DEAD AND THAT ANYONE STUPID ENOUGH TO RUN IT IS A MORON. I WANT NATIONAL TITLES AND WE WILL NEVER WIN ONE WITH THAT MORON, SWITZER. HE'S A MORON.

SINCERELY,

PAPPY

thank you for the insight on 1983. I wish I could've been there. Unfortunately I wasn't alive then. I'm more like the guy who was saying we should get rid of john blake. you were probably the guy on here begging for john blake to be able to keep his job.

you were weren't you...you don't have to deny it, we all know its true.

[Leroy Lizard]

I suppose you thought last night's game was called perfectly, right?

It was called better than if you had been involved.

[Leroy Lizard]

thank you for the insight on 1983. I wish I could've been there. Unfortunately I wasn't alive then. [Wow. There's a real shock.] I'm more like the guy who was saying we should get rid of john blake. you were probably the guy on here begging for john blake to be able to keep his job.

Nope. I said that was a bad hire from Day One.

Blake hasn't succeeded like Switzer or Stoops.

[Tigeman]

I say we go throw some cash at Dick Bumpas, and beg him to come be a Co-DC. Venables is fine but needs a little help!

As for KW, eh, Stoops just needs to be willing to step on him and say "Run this play". He does fine most the time.... but we all know when his butthole is bout to pucker up, and that's the time for Stoops to step in and take over for a play or 2.

[Crimson Kid]

Stoops is. the others i can live without.

[SOONER44EVER]

Stoops is. the others i can live without.

Stoops is the reason they're never going to leave.

[OU_Sooners75]

It was called better than if you had been involved.


You are probably right, but I know one damn thing....I would not call 11, out of 12 plays, 22 or 21 isos when inside the five yard line...without trying different play.

It is called basic knowledge Leetard. I would not expect you to really know much about this game when it comes to the x's and o's.

Let me give you a hint:

If there are 8-9 defenders within 5-7 yards of the LOS and 1-2 yards within the outside of the tackles (or tight ends), they are considered to be in the "box."

Now, let me ask this: with those 8-9 defenders within 2 yards of the Line of scrimmage and inside the tackles, which team has the advantage in the middle?

The defense.

What? The defense? Yes, you're right.

So how can the offense give themselves the advantage once again?

Play action pass? Yes. QB Bootleg? Yes. By god, you are smart Leetard.

Some other ways to give yourself the advantage, run a toss sweep. Run a waggle pass (a short play action pass to the TE). Spread the field and make the defense spread out as well. Then run up the middle.

There are many different plays designed for goalline offense that could have worked....KW decided to run 1 pass play and 11 iso run plays.

Extra Credit Question #1:

Where does a 22 or 21 ISO run play go to?
A: Off a tackle or TE
B: Between a TE and tackle or Tackle and Guard.
C: Between a Guard and Center

Extra Credit Question #2:

What is an ISO run play?
A: Hand off to a back without a lead blocker.
B: hand off to a back with a lead blocker.

[SOONER44EVER]

You are probably right, but I know one damn thing....I would not call 11, out of 12 plays, 22 or 23 isos when inside the five yard line...without trying different play.

It is called basic knowledge Leetard. I would not expect you to really know much about this game when it comes to the x's and o's.

Let me give you a hint:

If there are 8-9 defenders within 5-7 yards of the LOS and 1-2 yards within the outside of the tackles (or tight ends), they are considered to be in the "box."

Now, let me ask this: with those 8-9 defenders within 2 yards of the Line of scrimmage and inside the tackles, which team has the advantage in the middle?

The defense.

What? The defense? Yes, you're right.

So how can the offense give themselves the advantage once again?

Play action pass? Yes. QB Bootleg? Yes. By god, you are smart Leetard.

Some other ways to give yourself the advantage, run a toss sweep. Run a waggle pass (a short play action pass to the TE). Spread the field and make the defense spread out as well. Then run up the middle.

There are many different plays designed for goalline offense that could have worked....KW decided to run 1 pass play and 11 iso run plays.

Extra Credit Question #1:

Where does a 22 or 21 ISO run play go to?
A: Off a tackle or TE
B: Between a TE and tackle or Tackle and Guard.
C: Between a Guard and Center

Extra Credit Question #2:

What is an ISO run play?
A: Hand off to a back without a lead blocker.
B: hand off to a back with a lead blocker.

Excellent explanation. I bet some people still defend his calls though.

[OU_Sooners75]

Excellent explanation. I bet some people still defend his calls though.


I know they will.

there is nothing wrong with defending a coach. Every coach has a bad game...but it seems to be a pattern with Wilson.

4-7 in that last two seasons (without Bradford) when OU travels away from Norman.

18-16 since 2006 when OU is away from Norman. 2006 is Wilson's first season.

I wonder how many people realize that Stoops has only lost some 30 games away from Norman....yeah, 53.33% of those losses came with our current offensive coordinator!

[SOONER44EVER]

I know they will.

there is nothing wrong with defending a coach. Every coach has a bad game...but it seems to be a pattern with Wilson.

4-7 in that last two seasons (without Bradford) when OU travels away from Norman.

18-16 since 2006 when OU is away from Norman. 2006 is Wilson's first season.

I wonder how many people realize that Stoops has only lost some 30 games away from Norman....yeah, 53.33% of those losses came with our current offensive coordinator!

I keep saying it and I'll say it again...............this team just doesn't have the talent to overcome the bad coaching like we used to.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

You are probably right, but I know one damn thing....I would not call 11, out of 12 plays, 22 or 21 isos when inside the five yard line...without trying different play.

its funny. does anyone remember the colorado/notre dame national championship game where eric bienemy was turned away at the goal line twice? on the 3rd play, they tried a play action pass that was intercepted. it ended up being the difference in the game and afterwards everyone was like "holy crap, there is no way they stop him a 3rd time".

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I keep saying it and I'll say it again...............this team just doesn't have the talent to overcome the bad coaching like we used to.

spin this a different way. what is the variance in talent between the freshman and the seniors. then ask yourself if the superstars that graduated last year weren't covering up how bad the coaches had let our talent base get.

[Leroy Lizard]

I keep saying it and I'll say it again...............this team just doesn't have the talent to overcome the bad coaching like we used to.

And I will ask you once again who developed that talent.

[Leroy Lizard]

You are probably right, but I know one damn thing....I would not call 11, out of 12 plays, 22 or 21 isos when inside the five yard line...without trying different play.

You're right. You would have called different plays. And afterward everyone in here would be calling for your head and calling you a dumbass and wanting to know why no team wants you as a head coach.

[SOONER44EVER]

And I will ask you once again who developed that talent.

I dunno man. I give up. Keep KW forever. There. Happy?

[Collier11]

spin this a different way. what is the variance in talent between the freshman and the seniors. then ask yourself if the superstars that graduated last year weren't covering up how bad the coaches had let our talent base get.

You think the talent level of our Fresh and Soph is that much greater than our JRs and SRs?

[Leroy Lizard]

I know they will.

there is nothing wrong with defending a coach. Every coach has a bad game...but it seems to be a pattern with Wilson.

4-7 in that last two seasons (without Bradford) when OU travels away from Norman.

18-16 since 2006 when OU is away from Norman. 2006 is Wilson's first season.


Let's not mention that OU went 3-3 on the road in 2005.

The year after, KW's first year, we went 5-3 on the road.

Your stats are misleading anyway. Every year we play Texas (typically a top-10 team) on the road, whereas most teams play their top conference rival on a home-home series.

And if an OC was calling all the wrong plays on the road, how does that same OC call the right plays at home? The field is the same size. Same players.

[Leroy Lizard]

I dunno man.

We already knew that.

[SOONER44EVER]

We already knew that.

Who is the "we" you continuously speak of?

[OU_Sooners75]

Let's not mention that OU went 3-3 on the road in 2005.

The year after, KW's first year, we went 5-3 on the road.

Your stats are misleading anyway. Every year we play Texas (typically a top-10 team) on the road, whereas most teams play their top conference rival on a home-home series.

And if an OC was calling all the wrong plays on the road, how does that same OC call the right plays at home? The field is the same size. Same players.

Wins and loss record when he has been OC. YAY.....we had a great team in 2008, his 3rd season. They lost just 2 games away from norman that season.

2006 (his first year as OC): 5-3
2007: 5-3
2008: 6-2
2009: 2-5
2010: 2-2

20-15 not 18-16. My mistake.

32 losses for Bob Stoops.
30 Losses on the road.
exactly 50% of those road losses came as Wilson as the OC.

Stoops 12th season. Wilson's 5th season in charge of the offense.
That means, it took just 5 seasons for Wilson to double the amount of road losses Stoops had in his first 7 seasons.

:eek:

[OU_Sooners75]

And as for your home and away play calling question.
I cannot really answer that.

I am not saying every single game is solely the fault of Wilson. But anyone can see the difference...except you apparently.

Why stop running the ball when it has been the aspect of the game got you back into the game?

Why run the same play 11 out of 12 times inside the 5 yard that makes you comes away with zero points?

Why continue to run bubble screens and flares when the defense is clearly reading those plays?

A lot of people want to blame player execution....and that is right....there is a problem there as well....however, the play calling can stump the lack of proper execution when you run the plays right into the meat of their defense, or you cannot change up the play calling, which makes you predictable.


I remember going through Monday practices....just helmets...no pads on. They were walk through practices.

What did we do? Well, the defense would go through tendancies of the offense. The offense would study the defense.

We would go watch film and the coaching staff had statisticians to break down the %ages when it comes to tendancies.

And I can tell you with almost 100% certainty, that all coaching staffs have something similar to that. They study what the opponent does in certain situations.

Well, when you cannot deviate from your tendancies, then the opponent has the edge and advantage.

[Leroy Lizard]

Wins and loss record when he has been OC. YAY.....we had a great team in 2008, his 3rd season. They lost just 2 games away from norman that season.

Yeah, to the BCS ranked #1 and #3 teams.



2006 (his first year as OC): 5-3
2007: 5-3
2008: 6-2
2009: 2-5
2010: 2-2

We lost five games last season on the road, but two occurred when our starting QB was knocked out during the game. (And we still came within an eyelash of winning.) Two more came against Top-20 teams without our starting QB.

Besides, he's the same OC that is undefeated at home. Again, the field is the same size in Norman as it is in Dallas. We don't switch players for home and away games. So if the OC is truly so bad as you say he is, why hasn't our team folded at home? After all, Texas certainly has found ways to lose at home. Why not OU?

In other words, if you are going to criticize him for our lack of success on the road, are you willing to praise him for our outstanding success at home? Or is this one of those deals where you get to cherry pick the examples for your demonstrations?

[Leroy Lizard]

And as for your home and away play calling question.

I cannot really answer that.

Gee, that's kind of a serious problem in your analysis. In fact, it's a pretty obvious problem and one you should have accounted for.

As for the rest of your post, let me state once again that playcalling is only ONE aspect of being an offensive coordinator. Furthermore, none of us have the coaching expertise to say exactly what play should have been called.

For example, we may have been running the ball because ATM's defense initially was designed to stop the pass. We may have started throwing the ball because ATM adjusted to stop the run.

I'm not saying that's the reason, but unless we have the football knowledge of a coach it's difficult to say otherwise.

Again, fans do this to their teams after every loss. No matter what play was called, it was the wrong one if it doesn't work. It's that way everywhere, and coaches have complained about it for eons. They didn't come up with the term armchair quarterback for nothing.

Besides, you cry in one instance that we "got away from the rush" and then in the next complain that we rushed too much in the red zone. And this just highlights how difficult it is for an OC to keep fans happy. If you throw the ball, you're getting away from your bread-and-butter. If you rush, you're going too conservative and playing "not to lose."

And if you win, well that was because the players had all the talent to overcome the coaching.


I remember going through Monday practices....just helmets...no pads on. They were walk through practices.

What did we do? Well, the defense would go through tendancies of the offense. The offense would study the defense.

We would go watch film and the coaching staff had statisticians to break down the %ages when it comes to tendancies.

And I can tell you with almost 100% certainty, that all coaching staffs have something similar to that. They study what the opponent does in certain situations.

Well, when you cannot deviate from your tendancies, then the opponent has the edge and advantage.

You should go up to our coaches and share your wisdom. But you won't. Because deep down you know damn well that they would look at you in the eye and say, "Are you ****ing kidding me? Do you really think that this has got by us?"

Coaches like KW have been at this game for years and have made it a life. You're not privy to some revelation about the game that they don't know about. So quit talking as if our coaches were born yesterday.

Coaches since Knute Rockne have complained about the fans that think they know more than anyone else about how to coach a team. Those that have some experience playing are the worst. In truth, most of those guys would actually be coaching if only they knew their *** from a hole in the ground.

[SoonerWarMachine#1]

Yeah, to the BCS ranked #1 and #3 teams.



We lost five games last season on the road, but two occurred when our starting QB was knocked out during the game. (And we still came within an eyelash of winning.) Two more came against Top-20 teams without our starting QB.

Besides, he's the same OC that is undefeated at home. Again, the field is the same size in Norman as it is in Dallas. We don't switch players for home and away games. So if the OC is truly so bad as you say he is, why hasn't our team folded at home? After all, Texas certainly has found ways to lose at home. Why not OU?

In other words, if you are going to criticize him for our lack of success on the road, are you willing to praise him for our outstanding success at home? Or is this one of those deals where you get to cherry pick the examples for your demonstrations?

Too many fine quotes to note, just more of Leroy's drive-by brilliance

[Leroy Lizard]

Too many fine quotes to note, just more of Leroy's drive-by brilliance

You must really like that word "brilliance."

[SoonerWarMachine#1]

You must really like that word "brilliance."

it does the best job in describing your wisdom and intellect

[Leroy Lizard]

it does the best job in describing your wisdom and intellect

Prepare for a whole grapeshot of neg spek.

[TUSooner]

I do not intent to be flippant:
Who do you balme for our O-Line getting abused in unspeakable ways for 80% of that game? I mean, really, they looked like SicEm being smacked around by Dean (not that that would ever happen).

[TUSooner]

Too many fine quotes to note, just more of Leroy's drive-by brilliance

Hey, smarty-pants, Leroy has earned all those red squares honestly over time. Give credit where it's due!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I do not intent to be flippant:
Who do you balme for our O-Line getting abused in unspeakable ways for 80% of that game? I mean, really, they looked like SicEm being smacked around by Dean (not that that would ever happen).

heh, look at my post.

wilson comes in and makes our OL look crazy good in 2002, 2003, 2004 with mangino's players (and some DT converts).

in 2005, our OL then looks horrible because wilson's first 2 recruiting classes were duds (most of them were run off).

in 2006, 2007. 2008 patton starts to make our OL look a lot better with wilson's recruits.

in 2009, 2010 we are struggling because patton's first 2 recruiting classes blew chunks

next year we see if patton is a good recruiter/coach.

[TUSooner]

heh, look at my post.

wilson comes in and makes our OL look crazy good in 2002, 2003, 2004 with mangino's players (and some DT converts).

in 2005, our OL then looks horrible because wilson's first 2 recruiting classes were duds (most of them were run off).

in 2006, 2007. 2008 patton starts to make our OL look a lot better with wilson's recruits.

in 2009, 2010 we are struggling because patton's first 2 recruiting classes blew chunks

next year we see if patton is a good recruiter/coach.

That's an answer. I do recall recruits reportedly being run off a few years ago and was wondering what's been happening since then. THANKS.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

That's an answer. I do recall recruits reportedly being run off a few years ago and was wondering what's been happening since then. THANKS.

the funny part is that you are starting to see the same crap at texas with muschamp.

finding someone who is a great teacher/disciplinarian/motivator/evaluater/recruiter/strategist/tactician is almost frickin impossible. its why i think stoops needs to innovate again.

[OULenexaman]

maybe Bob has fallen into his comfort zone...

[SoonerMarkVA]

Mangino and Long both sucked too.

I'd rather see us replace Venables than Wilson. At least Wilson had a good year in 08'. Venables has consistently been average, at best.

I'm not sure how you can see what he did at OU and KU and say that. Yes, 2001 was a dismal year, in no small part because the coaches rewarded the seniority of Hybl over the more talented White until half-way through the season (and then White's injury). Also, the O-line was so young, and so freakin' inexperienced.

But, if you look at what Mangino did with KU, with players practically no one wanted, and the offense he and Heupel put together in 2000, I don't see how anyone could conclude he sucked.

I'd sure like to see Mangino back at OU. He and Heupel made one heck of a team.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I'm not sure how you can see what he did at OU and KU and say that. Yes, 2001 was a dismal year, in no small part because the coaches rewarded the seniority of Hybl over the more talented White until half-way through the season (and then White's injury). Also, the O-line was so young, and so freakin' inexperienced.

But, if you look at what Mangino did with KU, with players practically no one wanted, and the offense he and Heupel put together in 2000, I don't see how anyone could conclude he sucked.

I'd sure like to see Mangino back at OU. He and Heupel made one heck of a team.

and IF you look at the 4 OL he ran off in the offseason that complained of the abuse. AND THEN you look at what happened at kansas that got him canned, well you see that letting him go was the RIGHT MOVE

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Can anyone think of any other program in the country who has our level of talent but wastes that talent better than us?

^^^ This!

[TheHumanAlphabet]

maybe Bob has fallen into his comfort zone...
^^^^ This too!

[SoonerAtKU]

its why i think stoops needs to innovate again.

I'm intrigued by what you might mean by "innovate". I'm assuming you don't mean to dump Wilson. Is this a reference to a new philosophy in some aspect, or a different coaching change?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

So what would we new innovate into - the Wishbone?? Split-T?? is there something else on the horizon that people are doing? The Air Force version?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I'm intrigued by what you might mean by "innovate". I'm assuming you don't mean to dump Wilson. Is this a reference to a new philosophy in some aspect, or a different coaching change?

traditionally, coaches have their own kingdoms that work within the framework of hte head coach

stoops -> our offense should be able to do X, Y, Z
coordinator -> we are going to use this style of offense to accomplish X, Y, Z
position coach -> i'm going to recruit this type of guy, train him this way, and put the best player on the field

the problem is that the coordinator is also a position coach. so instead of spending time with each position coach ramming the offensive/defensive philosophy down their throats, he has to teach his own position.

what we need to do is tone down the skillsets required so that you don't need jack of all trades, you need very specialized individuals.

[Always_Sooner]

I was telling a good friend of mine I remember the 90's when we were getting destroyed by Nebraska 73-21. I remember the terrible seasons. My tail was at Owen field win or lose, shoot the best game of the John Blake era was when OU beat Syracuse with Mcnabb. I remember when OU fans were stoked for a 7-4 season and a trip to the Independence bowl. Let's face it, OU just was under everyone's radar. Now, once complacency sets in, as it has bestowed upon the program you are more vulnerable than ever. Schemes and wrinkles need to be added; because when there is many seasons of film available opponents know you inside and out, and something that I learned from the insurance industry that is applicable to Football. It's called a trend analysis.

[Soonermagik]

No doubt the coaching staff has made errors. However, this season they have put the team in position to win every game and that's all they can do. At Missouri Jones threw 2 picks and Madu fumbled or they likely win.

During the A&M game they called a perfect fake FG and hit Hanna right in the hands. If he catches the ball they likely win. Then they give O'hara a chance to make a reasonable field goal and he totally shanks it. He hit one earlier in the night, so Bob had reason to give him another go.

When do we blame the players???? Oh wait.. this isn't the NFL and we can't swap or just dump guys. The next reasonable thing is to fire everyone else as it's the only "solution".

[Collier11]

traditionally, coaches have their own kingdoms that work within the framework of hte head coach

stoops -> our offense should be able to do X, Y, Z
coordinator -> we are going to use this style of offense to accomplish X, Y, Z
position coach -> i'm going to recruit this type of guy, train him this way, and put the best player on the field

the problem is that the coordinator is also a position coach. so instead of spending time with each position coach ramming the offensive/defensive philosophy down their throats, he has to teach his own position.

what we need to do is tone down the skillsets required so that you don't need jack of all trades, you need very specialized individuals.

I just heard the other day how one team (cant remember which one) had a lot of young players on D and they were calling too complex of schemes which wasnt allowing the players to play, they were thinking too much. The head coach went in and oversimplified the package for the following game and the D lit it up...maybe thats what we need to do?

[Pigface1]

It doesn't matter if Bill Walsh is calling plays when the o-line can't get an inch of push.

[Pigface1]

I do think it's time to get back to fundamentals and forget this ho huddle crap. Line up in the I or a pro set, and control the clock and temp of the game that way.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

What ever happened to the day when you had a responsibilty. ;)

The line would rush like hell trying to get the guy with the ball.

The linebackers would wait a bit and then try to get the guy with the ball.

The back field would run with the receivers and then try to get the guy with the ball.

Simple ;)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I just heard the other day how one team (cant remember which one) had a lot of young players on D and they were calling too complex of schemes which wasnt allowing the players to play, they were thinking too much. The head coach went in and oversimplified the package for the following game and the D lit it up...maybe thats what we need to do?

this isn't our problem. our problem is a void in talent at certain positions that crop up EVERY YEAR. honestly, there is only 1 position where we should see any kind of growing pains -> quarterback. yet we see them all over the field year in and year out.

we have to standardize evaluation into a proven individual that does it full time. they don't even have to coach, but they need to make sure that we are continuously meeting our bar with incoming players. basically, they act as an objective pre-screen for recruits to allow the coaches more time on the other aspects of the game.

we pull coordinators off of position coach duty. venables is no longer in charge of linebackers, he's in charge of the defense. thus, he moves between the DL the LBs and the Secondary teaching them the philosophy of the D.

[btb916]

We're a finesse offense that want's to put it's big boy pants on when it counts and we continue to fail at the goalline.


This is very true and I think this is a valid criticism of Wilson. Other than that, I don't know what everyone's problem is. The game is won and lost in the trenches. Our d-line is hobbled and can't get pressure (and one LB is lazy, apparently) and our o-line is just a bit more respectable than last year.

Can't make a pretty marble statue out of sh!t in the middle of the season.

[goingoneight]

The calls were once again that of a staff that threw their hands up and just picked plays at random. However, once again you look at the game and see that you played ball for four hours and there's only like a hundred things you could do better. That's football. Nobody ever reads a message board full of rational fans after a loss. It was time after the game against Air Force to admit the defense is not great. They miss GK and all of the veterans too much to simply just "adjust." OU's defense is going to get torched this year no matter who they play a time or two simply because they're lacking in areas they're usually dominant (like DT for example). Combine shaky defense with missed opportunities offensively. Yes, playcalling struck out numerous times, but equal to the task were the players. James Hanna anyone? A guy who we thought might be coming on as maybe OUr next big receiving TE dropped the ball literally and proverbially on the fake field goal. We reeled off 17 unanswered points and that would-be TD would have meant EVERYTHING in a different outcome, win or lose. Everything... period.
Instead, the momentum died and A&M regained control. It was the exact opposite of the 2000 OU/A&M game, where the defense got torched, the offense struggled, but when it came time to make plays (Hanna versus Marshall), we didn't.
Don't mistake me for completely blowing smoke at tge coaching situation. In a way, you could say both the 2000 and the 2010 games, OU was affected by the dreaded road game woes. The differences are many, but the foundation is similar. Heupel was surgical in the fourth quarter, Landry shaky. Mangino's not some genius OC when Torrance Marshall gets a pick-6, the players just made plays. In 2010, we're not making the plays.

Again, the foundation of the game was a dreadful gameplan. KW and BV both have the dunce cap in this one. However, it's unfair to say they should just go when players are the difference between genius coordinator and failure. We're better this year, and good enough to win these games, but still just not good enough when it matter. WHEN it matters.

Name how the following is KW or BV's fault:

Patrick O'Hara's horrid attempt at a FG.
A&M's kickoff return touchdown.
James Hanna drops a perfect pass in the endzone.
Demotre Hurst drops a sure pick-6.

All around a bad game that would have a very different look if guys made plays. All around a bad game that was spelled by a bad gameplan. They've got to learn how to channel that Owen Field energy when they leave Norman. Plain and simple.

[Scott D]

Here is the other problem I see with your comment:

Mangino was our OC for just 2 seasons, 2000-01, before a major university came along and hired him as their head coach.

Chuck Long was our OC for just 4 seasons, 2002-05, before a FBS school came along and hired him as their head coach.

Kevin Wilson is in his 5th season and not once as a FBS team came long and offered him a head coaching job. You do know before coming to OU, Kevin Wilson was the OC at Northwestern for 3 seasons (1999-2001) and the OC at Miami (OH) for 7 seasons (1992-1998).

For Wilson this states a lot when he has had 15 years experience as a Coordinator and he has not been hired as a Head Coach.

There are worse out there, but there are also better that a program like OU should be able to pull in.

And what is bad Scott...up until watching the game last night, I had a lot of faith in Wilson...not so much anymore when he proved that he is completely incompetent inside the 5 yard line, not one time, but three times!

keep in mind 75... Mangino was gone because it was made pretty certain that it was in his best interest to interview for head coaching gigs. Long was gone because it was made pretty certain that it was in his best interest to interview for head coaching gigs.

Those guys may or may not have (rumored to be in the haves) had the opportunities for head coaching gigs before they took them. We don't know for certain that Wilson hasn't interviewed for a head coaching gig or that he was ever in the running for one other than the random rumors that cropped up after the 2008 season.

I've always been indifferent with Wilson, I knew the background he came from and I knew that background dealt with coaching a team of guys who were arguably less talented but usually smarter than the guys lined up across them on the field in the Big 10 when he was at Northwestern.

The only absolute certainty that I will deal with in regards to the offensive coordinator of this team while Bob Stoops is the head coach is that he'll have a 2-3 play window before the complaining starts and a 2-3 season window before the complaining becomes a crescendo.

Truthfully, I think jkm's suggestion of removing the position coaching from the coordinators would be the right step to take. The only step to take if it's a case where either Wilson or Venables decides that this offseason might just be the right time for one or both of them to move on to take over a different program would be to bring in someone who isn't in the Youngstown/Kansas State/Iowa/OU web, and be similar in regards to the idea behind why Stoops brought Leach in. Bring in someone that either we've had trouble moving the ball on or someone we had a lot of trouble stopping to fill a coordinator position.

Question is, are fans really willing to put up with the kind of growing pains that learning entirely new schemes would create when the alternative is a lot easier to deal with.

[Scott D]

Oh and don't kid yourselves people, this has been a finesse offense since 1999. The abilities of Adrian Peterson being the notable exception.

[...sooner]

anyone read this article...

"I probably should have thrown it in the last two drives," Wilson said. "When it doesn't work, you probably should have called something else."

Read more: http://www.newsok.com/plenty-of-blame-to-go-around-for-ous-goal-line-failures/article/3512321?custom_click=email_lead_story_title#ixzz14 isaxAxE

..sorry if its already been posted.

[Leroy Lizard]

anyone read this article...

"I probably should have thrown it in the last two drives," Wilson said. "When it doesn't work, you probably should have called something else."

Read more: http://www.newsok.com/plenty-of-blame-to-go-around-for-ous-goal-line-failures/article/3512321?custom_click=email_lead_story_title#ixzz14 isaxAxE

..sorry if its already been posted.

In other words, hindsight is 20/20.

[jumperstop]

In other words, hindsight is 20/20.

Some people have a hard time understanding that around here. Although after the third goal line stand, you think the hindsight would have kicked in by then...:P

[SoonerAtKU]

What are the limits on # of coaches on staff allowed? I thought it was something like 11, from when USC got wrist-slapped for having "consultants" at practices.

[jumperstop]

What are the limits on # of coaches on staff allowed? I thought it was something like 11, from when USC got wrist-slapped for having "consultants" at practices.

So when we had Mangino, did he count as two assistants?

[Scott D]

if you're going to ask questions about how many...the question is...Do we really need DE and DT coaches? Do we really need WR and TE coaches? Shouldn't the TE's spend time with both the WR and OL coaches instead?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

What are the limits on # of coaches on staff allowed? I thought it was something like 11, from when USC got wrist-slapped for having "consultants" at practices.

the rule is mainly about how many people you can PAY to have interaction with players and recruits. there is no rule about people who either have no interaction with the players/recruits or that are unpaid assistants at practice.

[soonervegas]

keep in mind 75... Mangino was gone because it was made pretty certain that it was in his best interest to interview for head coaching gigs.

Mangino went 24-2 as Offensive Coordinator. I think you might be confusing him and Long.

Fact is V and KW are a huge downgrade from Mangino and Stoops. A HUGE downgrade (no pun intended)

[Scott D]

I'm not confusing Mangino with anyone. Just because that team went 24-2 doesn't mean there wasn't heavy criticism. Especially with the offensive performances down the stretch that second year in addition to the offensive linemen complaints and defections.

[SoonerAtKU]

the rule is mainly about how many people you can PAY to have interaction with players and recruits. there is no rule about people who either have no interaction with the players/recruits or that are unpaid assistants at practice.

Well, sure. I'm just wondering how we would be able to pay a new position coach. Do you think there would be any way that we could have the OC and DC designated as "consultants" who don't coach directly and don't call any plays directly? That can all be done via position coaches, right? The downside is that it would pretty severely limit their job opportunities elsewhere, since they wouldn't be doing the job that every other coordinator does at every other program. The upside is that we have more staff space and all of our position coaches get more experience in other areas than they might normally.

[Pigface1]

if you're going to ask questions about how many...the question is...Do we really need DE and DT coaches? Do we really need WR and TE coaches? Shouldn't the TE's spend time with both the WR and OL coaches instead?

We need our DE and DT coaches for recruiting, unfortunately.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Mangino went 24-2 as Offensive Coordinator. I think you might be confusing him and Long.

Fact is V and KW are a huge downgrade from Mangino and Stoops. A HUGE downgrade (no pun intended)

bullcrap. 16-13 loss at home to pokey state.

[Collier11]

I'm not confusing Mangino with anyone. Just because that team went 24-2 doesn't mean there wasn't heavy criticism. Especially with the offensive performances down the stretch that second year in addition to the offensive linemen complaints and defections.

OU fans are spoiled babies, its amazing how they seem to have selective memory huh? LOL

OU fans bitched about Mangino profusely, then Long, and now KW

[Scott D]

We need our DE and DT coaches for recruiting, unfortunately.

I'm not saying we don't need both guys....but surely one could coach linebackers and one defensive linemen freeing our defensive coordinator to be a defensive coordinator.

[soonerbub]

bullcrap. 16-13 loss at home to pokey state.


accomplished with 0 yards rushing
of course we've had worse outings since :(

[Leroy Lizard]

Well, sure. I'm just wondering how we would be able to pay a new position coach. Do you think there would be any way that we could have the OC and DC designated as "consultants" who don't coach directly and don't call any plays directly?

The problem is payment. If you pay them as independent contractors, the IRS gets involved. Hire them as employees, and the NCAA gets involved.

[sane]

‎"http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fire-Coach-Kevin-Wilson/164123543619715

[Leroy Lizard]

‎"http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fire-Coach-Kevin-Wilson/164123543619715

OMG, we've become Horn fans. :(

[ashley]

Very good.

[G8trGr8t]

Can anyone think of any other program in the country who has our level of talent but wastes that talent better than us?

Florida

trade you Addazio for Wilson straight up

[rainiersooner]

Florida

Lol - so I guess what I'm hearing is that great programs are always in the hunt, but can't win all of the games all of the time.

[G8trGr8t]

I guess there is a difference between losing because you got beat and losing because you weren't prepared to win. Too many losses from teams this year that weren't properly prepared to win. We lost our kicker which hurt but with our talent, it shouldn't come down to that

[starclassic tama]

Mangino went 24-2 as Offensive Coordinator. I think you might be confusing him and Long.

Fact is V and KW are a huge downgrade from Mangino and Stoops. A HUGE downgrade (no pun intended)

think about what you just said. mike stoops and mangino both went on to be very succesful HEAD COACHES. how many teams across the country have 2 legitimate good head coaches as coordinators? not very many. so yeah, our current coordinators are probably downgrades. doesn't mean they aren't good coaches though.

[Leroy Lizard]

head coach =/= assistant coach

Different jobs. Some assistants are excellent technicians that are not adept at heading a large staff.

And some of it is just salesmanship. Some are just better at the marketing side when it comes to getting their names out.

[MamaMia]

I would just like to hear some truth from Bob Stoops as to what the heck went wrong again. All the excuses of how hard it is to play in 'insert the name of any stadium here, I'm tired of all the half truths, all the spin and all the repetitive sugar coating. That would at least give me some peace in knowing that he's not in denial and that he still gives a darn enough to make some changes.

[Leroy Lizard]

I would just like to hear some truth from Bob Stoops as to what the heck went wrong again. All the excuses of how hard it is to play in 'insert the name of any stadium here, I'm tired of all the half truths, all the spin and all the repetitive sugar coating. That would at least give me some peace in knowing that he's not in denial and that he still gives a darn enough to make some changes.

Let's do this one more time:

1. Stoops sees the same game we do.

2. He knows football just as much as we do. Maybe even more.

3. Ergo, there is no reason to think that the problems with the team, whatever they may be, has slipped by him.

So rest assured that Stoops realizes we lost last weekend. I guarantee you he knows it. I would bet he even knows we struggle on the road.

[MamaMia]

Let's do this one more time:

1. Stoops sees the same game we do.

2. He knows football just as much as we do. Maybe even more.

3. Ergo, there is no reason to think that the problems with the team, whatever they may be, has slipped by him.

So rest assured that Stoops realizes we lost last weekend. I guarantee you he knows it. I would bet he even knows we struggle on the road.Let me do this one more time:

During the presser I would just like to hear some truth from Bob Stoops as to what the heck went wrong again on the road. All the excuses of how hard it is to play at 'insert the name of any stadium we lose at here is getting so old. I'm tired of all the half truths, all the spin and all the repetitive sugar coating. Sometimes I feel as though hes insulting our intelligence. It would at least give me some peace in knowing that he's not in denial and that he still gives a darn enough to point out some real problems, which when done is usually followed by having to make some changes to correct 'said' problems. :)

[soonerborn30]

I'm with you on that. I heard his presser last Tuesday before the A&M game and he didn't see the road game issue as a problem. He tried saying that other teams probably have similar records. He's wrong of course, no team that's in the stratosphere of OU is even remotely as bad on the road as we are. So yeah. I wish Bob would just call a spade a spade. Call out the coaches if they need it. Tell everybody the players didn't get it done. Because hell, if they don't know they sucked after a loss they're too stupid to be here in the first place.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Let me do this one more time:

During the presser I would just like to hear some truth from Bob Stoops as to what the heck went wrong again on the road. All the excuses of how hard it is to play at 'insert the name of any stadium we lose at here is getting so old. I'm tired of all the half truths, all the spin and all the repetitive sugar coating. Sometimes I feel as though hes insulting our intelligence. It would at least give me some peace in knowing that he's not in denial and that he still gives a darn enough to point out some real problems, which when done is usually followed by having to make some changes to correct 'said' problems. :)

i don't want this to come off as being flippant but i'm at a loss as to how else to explain it.

lets say that you yell at your daughter for 2 hours and then tell one of your friends about everything you got into it about, in front of her. the daughter may be mad/embarassed, but the nature of the relationship is that most likely she forgives you.

now change the situation and its your boss giving you a review. they critique all of your weaknesses, most of which they made up 2 hours before the review. they then hold a news conference and share everything about you on to the entire city. your reaction would be much different than your daughters because there is no family bond.

a football team is somewhere in between these two situations. stoops believes that any issues with the team be addressed behind closed doors and discussion with the media be in coach speak. when you say "he should own up to being a bad road team" he doesn't want that to get in the players heads. they may know it, he may know it, but no one admits it. very similar to how the coach of east popcorn state gets his team up to play an OU.

[Leroy Lizard]

Let me do this one more time:

During the presser I would just like to hear some truth from Bob Stoops as to what the heck went wrong again on the road. All the excuses of how hard it is to play at 'insert the name of any stadium we lose at here is getting so old. I'm tired of all the half truths, all the spin and all the repetitive sugar coating. Sometimes I feel as though hes insulting our intelligence. It would at least give me some peace in knowing that he's not in denial and that he still gives a darn enough to point out some real problems, which when done is usually followed by having to make some changes to correct 'said' problems. :)

Whether or not he expresses the problems on the team to YOU is irrelevant to whether he acknowledges the problems to himself. If you think you see a problem with the team and the problem is real, he knows about it too and will work hard to fix it, if it is fixable.


Call out the coaches if they need it. Tell everybody the players didn't get it done. Because hell, if they don't know they sucked after a loss they're too stupid to be here in the first place.

Publicly calling out staff members is stupid and solves nothing.

Don't believe me? Mack called out his staff after the Iowa State game, telling the fans that he had put the staff on notice. They promptly went out and chumped it against KSU.

[Leroy Lizard]

i don't want this to come off as being flippant but i'm at a loss as to how else to explain it.

lets say that you yell at your daughter for 2 hours and then tell one of your friends about everything you got into it about, in front of her. the daughter may be mad/embarassed, but the nature of the relationship is that most likely she forgives you.

now change the situation and its your boss giving you a review. they critique all of your weaknesses, most of which they made up 2 hours before the review. they then hold a news conference and share everything about you on to the entire city. your reaction would be much different than your daughters because there is no family bond.

a football team is somewhere in between these two situations. stoops believes that any issues with the team be addressed behind closed doors and discussion with the media be in coach speak. when you say "he should own up to being a bad road team" he doesn't want that to get in the players heads. they may know it, he may know it, but no one admits it. very similar to how the coach of east popcorn state gets his team up to play an OU.

Airing out dirty laundry to the public is just flat unprofessional.

[MamaMia]

I'm not so sure he knows what the problems are because some of them are ongoing, and therefore I'm not so sure they will get fixed.

[soonerborn30]

Airing out dirty laundry to the public is just flat unprofessional.

Is it really still "airing out dirty laundry" if everyone already knows it? I know that at some point in that game, every single unit failed miserably, yet you'll never hear Bob say it. I just don't think it does any good to pretend there isn't a problem.

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm not so sure he knows what the problems are because some of them are ongoing, and therefore I'm not so sure they will get fixed.

If Stoops doesn't know the problems, then no one does.

If Stoops cannot fix it, then it probably can't be fixed.


Is it really still "airing out dirty laundry" if everyone already knows it?

If everyone already knows it, then why bother asking Stoops about it? A stupid question is one in which you already know the answer.

[SoonerKnight]

are great?

I have been going to bat for our coaches, especially Venables and Wilson....well....that has now changed, for Wilson at least.


I think Stoops is a great coach and you suck!

[soonervegas]

think about what you just said. mike stoops and mangino both went on to be very succesful HEAD COACHES. how many teams across the country have 2 legitimate good head coaches as coordinators? not very many. so yeah, our current coordinators are probably downgrades. doesn't mean they aren't good coaches though.

I never said they weren't good coaches. Just that they won't get it done at the level many fans want (i.e. national title). I think you may need two head coach level coordinators these days to pull it off.

Hopefully, they prove me and others on here wrong. I'll be the first to give it up to Stoop Troop and co. (for sticking to their guns) if they do....

[Scott D]

Is it really still "airing out dirty laundry" if everyone already knows it? I know that at some point in that game, every single unit failed miserably, yet you'll never hear Bob say it. I just don't think it does any good to pretend there isn't a problem.

He won't say it to the media, he may very well say it to the players in closed door meetings. He may say it in coaching meetings, but he damn sure shouldn't say it to the media.

The problem is if you come out and go "we suck" where's the motivation for those kids to either care or get better? Don't give me the "they should have pride in wearing the Oklahoma uniform" bit either. I mean look at the beloved Cowboys that so many here are fans of. You'd probably see a team that resembled those Cowboys of this season if Bob came out in a presser and ripped his team.

It's like the Gundy situation a few years back. The media and fans were on Gundy's case for his comments about Jenni Carlson's article. Coaches loved it because he was standing up for his players. His team loved it because they felt like their coach was standing up for them. Honestly, the only one who didn't love it was Bobby Reid but by that point the rift had grown between player and coach in his eyes as it was.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I'm not so sure he knows what the problems are because some of them are ongoing, and therefore I'm not so sure they will get fixed.

i don't agree with this statement at all. the problems we had in 2002 or 2006 are not the same problems we have now. its just that it takes YEARS to fix a problem in college football.

i mean if you recruit player A who turns out to be an idiot. you change your recruiting criteria from that point on to look for the qualities that showed themselves. but how long did it take to manifest those qualities?

for jarboe it probably only cost them 9 months of time (from dec to aug) and they probably only had 4 recruits to reevaluate. but bomar? i mean that was 3 years after they recruited him.

now one point you do have may be valid -> i have no idea how much time the coaches spend on old film in self-critique. they have plenty of time to do it, but i'm not sure how much they actually face the music.

[Leroy Lizard]

It's like the Gundy situation a few years back. The media and fans were on Gundy's case for his comments about Jenni Carlson's article. Coaches loved it because he was standing up for his players. His team loved it because they felt like their coach was standing up for them. Honestly, the only one who didn't love it was Bobby Reid but by that point the rift had grown between player and coach in his eyes as it was.

Good example. Many in here called him an idiot. The media called him an idiot. But all that matters is what the players think. And judging by their recent play, that locker room explosion didn't hurt the team at all.

Mack, on the other hand, gave the fans what they wanted. He threw his assistants under the bus, and they promptly went out and lost their next game and looked horrible doing it.

Screw the fans. When in a presser, say what you think you need to say to keep your team from imploding. And if that looks like "denial," so be it.

BTW, I was one in here that defended him. I think I was right.

[NormanPride]

Wilson doesn't do much because he made the same goalline mistake against Florida in 2008.

[SoonerAtKU]

Well, recent is sort of a relative term here, that was three years ago. The players contributing now were only peripherally involved in that situation.

That being said, I agree that Bob has no responsibility to the media other than to answer questions and be available for contracted interviews and tv appearances. He can say whatever he wants to reporters when they ask. He can answer in Tagalog or Esperanto if he wants. What the hell good does it do the team if he goes on tv and says "we can't win on the road, and our players just aren't mentally sound enough to get over that hump"?

[OUmillenium]

I like our coaches because they are, 'our', coaches. I like our Sooners because they are 'our' Sooners.

I am comfortable enough to know pantie wringing on a message board doesn't help us win any more than your suggestions would.

I'm of German decent but I don't like 'our' Hitler.

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm of German decent but I don't like 'our' Hitler.

:eek:

[ExtraBedlamTix]

I realize this doesn't go with this thread either but I have 2 Bedlam tickets for sale and I can't create a thread without a certain number of posts.....Thanks!

[Collier11]

post them in the marketplace forum

[ExtraBedlamTix]

It won't let me without a minimum number of posts...I'm not sure what that number is either

[C&CDean]

It won't let me without a minimum number of posts...I'm not sure what that number is either

Who are you? Why are you selling these tickets? Where are they? Why did you join this board?

The answers to the above questions will determine how long you stay before I ban you.

[MamaMia]

i don't agree with this statement at all. the problems we had in 2002 or 2006 are not the same problems we have now. its just that it takes YEARS to fix a problem in college football.

i mean if you recruit player A who turns out to be an idiot. you change your recruiting criteria from that point on to look for the qualities that showed themselves. but how long did it take to manifest those qualities?

for jarboe it probably only cost them 9 months of time (from dec to aug) and they probably only had 4 recruits to reevaluate. but bomar? i mean that was 3 years after they recruited him.

now one point you do have may be valid -> i have no idea how much time the coaches spend on old film in self-critique. they have plenty of time to do it, but i'm not sure how much they actually face the music.I don't agree with that statement. It should not take years to fix a problem if you're aware of what the problem is.

[OKLA21FAN]

I realize this doesn't go with this thread either but I have 2 OU-OSU tickets for sale and I can't create a thread without a certain number of posts.....Thanks!

you are doing it wrong!

[Leroy Lizard]

I don't agree with that statement. It should not take years to fix a problem if you're aware of what the problem is.

Depends on the problem. Some are tougher than others. And some problems elude explanation.

[Leroy Lizard]

Why did you join this board?

Since his handle is ExtraOU-OSUTix I think we know why he joined the board.

[ExtraBedlamTix]

Who are you? Why are you selling these tickets? Where are they? Why did you join this board?

The answers to the above questions will determine how long you stay before I ban you.

My name is Lindsey...I have 4 season tickets but my 4 year old and 2 year old will be with their dad for Thanksgiving, so I have 2 extra ones...They are on the South West side on the 20 yard line...2 reasons - 1) my brother-in-law gets on here and told me to because he likes this place and 2) curious to see the thoughts on the Texas meltdown....and again, I'm sorry if I'm not supposed to be here :O

[SOONER44EVER]

My name is Lindsey...I have 4 season tickets but my 4 year old and 2 year old will be with their dad for Thanksgiving, so I have 2 extra ones...They are on the South West side on the 20 yard line...2 reasons - 1) my brother-in-law gets on here and told me to because he likes this place and 2) curious to see the thoughts on the Texas meltdown....and again, I'm sorry if I'm not supposed to be here :O

How much are you asking?

[ExtraBedlamTix]

How much are you asking?

I'll consider any offer...but in keeping with others in my section, I'd like to get around $700 for the pair...but I think I might get the boot from the board so I may not be able to sell them here anyway :O

[SOONER44EVER]

I'll consider any offer...but in keeping with others in my section, I'd like to get around $700 for the pair...but I think I might get the boot from the board so I may not be able to sell them here anyway :O
I'll give you $75 and 3 cans of Starkist tuna.

[OKLA21FAN]

They are on the South West side on the 20 yard line
now thats funny right there! :pop:

[OKLA21FAN]

I'll give you $75 and 3 cans of Starkist tuna.
throw in a dying relative (thats always good for saving a few bucks)

[Mad Dog Madsen]

I still think our coaches are great...

[SOONER44EVER]

throw in a dying relative (thats always good for saving a few bucks)

I thought the tuna was a nice touch. I'd go as high as 5 cans but the extra 2 would be a few days past the expiration date.

[MamaMia]

Depends on the problem. Some are tougher than others. And some problems elude explanation.

Name one on field problem at OU, which is what I was referring to, that would take years to fix.

[Mad Dog Madsen]

:pop:

[starclassic tama]

I'd like to get around $700 for the pair..

i think there is your answer with regards to whether or not to ban her dean

[SOONER44EVER]

i think there is your answer with regards to whether or not to ban her dean

Don't ban her yet. Let her mull over my offer. :D

[BoomerJack]

I'll give you $75 and 3 cans of Starkist tuna.

I'd be very suprised if we see Miss Lindsey back here anytime soon.

[Pigface1]

OU fans are spoiled babies, its amazing how they seem to have selective memory huh? LOL

OU fans bitched about Mangino profusely, then Long, and now KW

No doubt. At some point you have to put it on the players.

[mhackl]

I agree Wilson sucks! You can talk about coach V or any of the players, but everyone I know that was screaming at the TV last Saturday was screaming about play calling.

No matter your opinion, it was HORRIBLE!

Deep thoughts by Kevin Wilson....
If you find something that works... abandon it!
If it's not... repeat and repeat again!

[Mad Dog Madsen]

Everybody was lovin' K-Dub in '08!

[ExtraBedlamTix]

I'd be very suprised if we see Miss Lindsey back here anytime soon.

Still here..... ;)

[Scott D]

Name one on field problem at OU, which is what I was referring to, that would take years to fix.

recruiting mis-evaluations.

[BoomerJack]

Still here..... ;)

And I'm very surprised!!! I just thought the "cans of tuna" comment might run you off. Good to have you; stick around.

[MamaMia]

recruiting mis-evaluations.

Are you saying that we wouldn't have one player already on the team to fix an on field problem? Even if that were the case, we have scholarships available and juco players are out there. A season, maybe... but "years", no way.

[Scott D]

The offensive line is absolute proof of those mis-evaluations.

[ExtraBedlamTix]

And I'm very surprised!!! I just thought the "cans of tuna" comment might run you off. Good to have you; stick around.

It's very interesting...I've never been on a message board before....plus, I am exceptionally bored at work today!

[OKLA21FAN]

It's very interesting...I've never been on a message board before....plus, I am exceptionally bored at work today!
well then, this begs the question.....




what are you wearing? :pop:

[adoniijahsooner]

Everybody was lovin' K-Dub in '08!

No. Everyone was loving Sam, Gresh, two 4 year starters at wr, and a offensive line that sent all 5 starters to the NFL.

[Mad Dog Madsen]

Ok, so blame the players now...

[Scott D]

No. Everyone was loving Sam, Gresh, two 4 year starters at wr, and a offensive line that sent all 5 starters to the NFL.

even then it was a finesse offensive line btw.

[adoniijahsooner]

Ok, so blame the players now...

I really dont "blame" anyone. I enjoy football, but an oklahoma loss has never hurt me enough that i need to cast blame. They are 7-2, which is a pretty decent season with all the fr and sophmores on it.

[adoniijahsooner]

Ok, so blame the players now...

To continue the discussion, I do believe this offense was created for that 08 squad, and should have been tweaked coming into this year.

[Okie35]

Everybody was lovin' K-Dub in '08!

Yea, right now he's just going through the motions. I have no problem w/ him I just wish he would make up his mind. He likes to be balanced well I'd like to come out running instead of passing like we have during the last two road games. When we started running we scored and controlled the game. Look at the 3rd quarters against Mizzery and A&M. I don't want KW fired and I think we still have arguably the best collective coaching staff. We need to come out hitting ppl in the mouth instead of being finesse w/ the passing game.

[adoniijahsooner]

Yea, right now he's just going through the motions. I have no problem w/ him I just wish he would make up his mind. He likes to be balanced well I'd like to come out running instead of passing like we have during the last two road games. When we started running we scored and controlled the game. Look at the 3rd quarters against Mizzery and A&M. I don't want KW fired and I think we still have arguably the best collective coaching staff. We need to come out hitting ppl in the mouth instead of being finesse w/ the passing game.

My favorite KW year was 06. I just love when teams line up and run the football.

[Scott D]

I'm just curious..those of you who complained that he called too many running plays at the end of the game? Were you complaining because it appeared that in the first quarter his idea of getting Landry Jones into a rhythm was to not run the ball at all?

[Okie35]

My favorite KW year was 06. I just love when teams line up and run the football.

We need to go back to that mindset and even if DM/Finch get 4 yards per carry thats fine. I just want the offense to abuse the opposing defense.

[Okie35]

I'm just curious..those of you who complained that he called too many running plays at the end of the game? Were you complaining because it appeared that in the first quarter his idea of getting Landry Jones into a rhythm was to not run the ball at all?

Landry was off in the beginning missing easy throws but looked more comfortable when we ran the ball in the 3rd. I like that approach more than passing to open up the run. This isn't Texas Tech.

[Scott D]

I was just curious, because I know my first thought was not remembering a running play in the first four possessions. That's when I knew that it was an on the fly gameplan. Granted, the idea was to exploit A&M's secondary since they were stout against the run.

one of those situations where if it works, then great it opens up the run. but, if the blocking is off, or the passes aren't crisp then it makes everyone involved look a lot worse than they are.

[stoopified]

I do

[goingoneight]

No. Everyone was loving Sam, Gresh, two 4 year starters at wr, and a offensive line that sent all 5 starters to the NFL.

Those players are nothing more than talented, young athletes til they get to Norman, just like the kids currently seeing REAL coaching problems down in Austin. Like you said though, it's mostly just a hard pill to swallow given that it's Sooner football and the guys we're expecting so much out of right now just aren't there yet, though many are very good for their age and time in the system. Big Gresham was practically nonexistent his freshman year, as was Manny Johnson and Juaquin Iglesias.
That said, there are many aspects of a coordinator's position, and the one you might think is the easiest (playcalling) isn't Kevin Wilson's strength. I know this isn't you I'm talking about, but some people amaze me at how they think all KW's job is to draw up a play. There's eleven guys to "coordinate" on each play, timing, individual development and what you're up against always affects things. Mike Leach wouldn't win the game when the whole team fails to execute the way we did. He might have had a flashy gameplan, but dropping a potential game-winner is on the guy who dropped the ball, whether the gameplan was terrible or genius. And getting whipped on the OL is a recipe for disaster no matter what the call, too. Any number of things change Saturday night and you could say OU has a chance to win, it's just convenient to blame the OC. He had some lashes to take Saturday night, but so did literally everybody else.

[adoniijahsooner]

I'm just curious..those of you who complained that he called too many running plays at the end of the game? Were you complaining because it appeared that in the first quarter his idea of getting Landry Jones into a rhythm was to not run the ball at all?

I actually havent really chimed in about the game. I always believe a team should stick with the running game, but I grew up on walter payton and barry switzer.

[MyT Oklahoma]

Let's move on to Texas Tech and then discuss this at the end of the year.

[cyclonesooner]

I've got a good friend who has been an OU fanatic for 50 years and he just informed me that he officially "off the OU bandwagon" until they do something regarding the offensive coordinator. Pretty hard to argue with after the A@M fiasco. Worst playcalling exhibition I've ever witnessed in over 30 years of coaching and watching football.

[Scott D]

if he thinks that was bad, he should find film on Greg Robinson as the head coach of Syracuse.

[Collier11]

I've got a good friend who has been an OU fanatic for 50 years and he just informed me that he officially "off the OU bandwagon" until they do something regarding the offensive coordinator. Pretty hard to argue with after the A@M fiasco. Worst playcalling exhibition I've ever witnessed in over 30 years of coaching and watching football.

Good, we dont need b*tch fans

[SoonerAtKU]

I've got a good friend who has been an OU fanatic for 50 years and he just informed me that he officially "off the OU bandwagon" until they do something regarding the offensive coordinator. Pretty hard to argue with after the A@M fiasco. Worst playcalling exhibition I've ever witnessed in over 30 years of coaching and watching football.

Good, have him send me any cool memorabilia he collected over 50 years of his life.

[C&CDean]

I've got a good friend who has been an OU fanatic for 50 years and he just informed me that he officially "off the OU bandwagon" until they do something regarding the offensive coordinator. Pretty hard to argue with after the A@M fiasco. Worst playcalling exhibition I've ever witnessed in over 30 years of coaching and watching football.

So what you're saying is that you hang out with ****ing idiots, right?

You should choose your friends more wisely.

[OULenexaman]

if he thinks that was bad, he should find film on Greg Robinson as the head coach of Syracuse.

or as the D coord for the Chiefs.......and now a D coord for Michigan..:eek: :eek:

[Scott D]

or as the D coord for the Chiefs.......and now a D coord for Michigan..:eek: :eek:

we're covering that in another thread ;)

[Leroy Lizard]

UT fans thought Robinson was the cat's meow when he was there. Wha' happened?

[texaspokieokie]

I've got a good friend who has been an OU fanatic for 50 years and he just informed me that he officially "off the OU bandwagon" until they do something regarding the offensive coordinator. Pretty hard to argue with after the A@M fiasco. Worst playcalling exhibition I've ever witnessed in over 30 years of coaching and watching football.

he's probly been "off the bandwagon" 20 to 30 times before. then they win a couple & he's back.

[Leroy Lizard]

he's probly been "off the bandwagon" 20 to 30 times before. then they win a couple & he's back.

My gut feeling is that this friend is cyclonesooner.

[Collier11]

UT fans thought Robinson was the cat's meow when he was there. Wha' happened?

NO they didnt, he sucked there too

[Leroy Lizard]

NO they didnt, he sucked there too

Not my recollection.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

he was at texas 1 year..18th ranked in scoring D, 23rd overall...

only loss was 12-0 loss to OU...

Most of his body of work has been unimpressive though...not sure how he keeps getting those kind of jobs

[Scott D]

Texas fans were upset that his defense was "shredded" by Michigan in the Rose Bowl, that they needed Radio to be superman in the second half to beat the Pokes at home, that they barely escaped Mizzou at home, and that they needed some favorable calls to beat Kansas in Lawrence.

He was Manginoed out of Austin, and Akina didn't have to worry about the blame as the co-coordinator. FWIW Robinson was only in Austin for one year.

[Collier11]

he was at texas 1 year..18th ranked in scoring D, 23rd overall...

only loss was 12-0 loss to OU...

Most of his body of work has been unimpressive though...not sure how he keeps getting those kind of jobs

was he not a co-def coord that year?

[Scott D]

with still on staff Duane Akina

[OU_Sooners75]

keep in mind 75... Mangino was gone because it was made pretty certain that it was in his best interest to interview for head coaching gigs. Long was gone because it was made pretty certain that it was in his best interest to interview for head coaching gigs.

Those guys may or may not have (rumored to be in the haves) had the opportunities for head coaching gigs before they took them. We don't know for certain that Wilson hasn't interviewed for a head coaching gig or that he was ever in the running for one other than the random rumors that cropped up after the 2008 season.

I've always been indifferent with Wilson, I knew the background he came from and I knew that background dealt with coaching a team of guys who were arguably less talented but usually smarter than the guys lined up across them on the field in the Big 10 when he was at Northwestern.

The only absolute certainty that I will deal with in regards to the offensive coordinator of this team while Bob Stoops is the head coach is that he'll have a 2-3 play window before the complaining starts and a 2-3 season window before the complaining becomes a crescendo.

Truthfully, I think jkm's suggestion of removing the position coaching from the coordinators would be the right step to take. The only step to take if it's a case where either Wilson or Venables decides that this offseason might just be the right time for one or both of them to move on to take over a different program would be to bring in someone who isn't in the Youngstown/Kansas State/Iowa/OU web, and be similar in regards to the idea behind why Stoops brought Leach in. Bring in someone that either we've had trouble moving the ball on or someone we had a lot of trouble stopping to fill a coordinator position.

Question is, are fans really willing to put up with the kind of growing pains that learning entirely new schemes would create when the alternative is a lot easier to deal with.


I agree....unless either get a HC job, I do not think we necessarily have to get rid of them. I like what JKM suggested.

I think a change in philosphy from our coaches, our coaches being able to change would be great. I do not think it necessarily has to come to a complete coaching change.

We have a very young team, yet we are still playing an offensive scheme that is really geared for an experienced oline and skilled players. Wilson should know this!

Why do we have to run 100 plays a game to outscore our opponents? I think it is actually wearing our own team down. Because we either move so fast and score or we have 3 and outs so fast, our defense does not really have the time to rest and go over what type of adjustments are needed.

Slow the game game, ball control, and time control on offense.

On defense, I do not think we can really do much...maybe do away from the 4-2-5 defense. Go back to a fundamental 4-3, unless it is 3rd and long. Maybe even change to a 3-4 defense? I don't know. I think it would be easier on the DL rotation if we had a more traditional nose guard. I do know our DL is fast and smaller than most years, why not utilize it on a 3-4 front? We can then use 4 linebackers and have our NB in as the 4th linebacker if that works better for us.

I don't know to be honest. I am not really a defensive minded type of guy. Grew up playing offense and coaching offense.

All I know is, something needs to change, mainly slow the game down and make it fun for our guys.

[OU_Sooners75]

if you're going to ask questions about how many...the question is...Do we really need DE and DT coaches? Do we really need WR and TE coaches? Shouldn't the TE's spend time with both the WR and OL coaches instead?

Exactly!!!

When I was in college, we had:

Offense:
1 Coordinator
1 OL coach
1 WR coach (was also our S&C coach)
1 RB coach (usually a GA)
1 QB coach

Defense:
1 DL coach
1 LB coach
1 DB coach
1 Defensive Coordinator

Our other GA was the Special teams and scouting team coach.

Our Coordinators spent equal time at each position making sure we knew what we were doing.
Our Head coach would bounce to every off and def position to make sure we would bre learning what our duties were.

We had a total of 11 coaches...I think that is the same as it is now.

[OU_Sooners75]

I think Stoops is a great coach and you suck!


reading is not your strong point is it?

The post was mainly about our coordinators...but dont let that get in your way.

:rolleyes:

[proudsoonergal]

I've got a good friend who has been an OU fanatic for 50 years and he just informed me that he officially "off the OU bandwagon" until they do something regarding the offensive coordinator. Pretty hard to argue with after the A@M fiasco. Worst playcalling exhibition I've ever witnessed in over 30 years of coaching and watching football.

Wait a minute. Did you sleep through the 1990's????

[proudsoonergal]

was he not a co-def coord that year?

I think he was co-def coordinator with Dick Tomey that year. Who also left, to screw up San Jose State.

[AlboSooner]

While I cant say there are no problems, to me personally I can't come to terms with the fact that these coaches win a lot, and played for a NC in 2008.

This is not to say people don't have the right to be frustrated, and I don't think you can play for a NC and not have a good coaching staff.

[Leroy Lizard]

Wait a minute. Did you sleep through the 1990's????

No, his parents woke up him every morning to go to elementary school.