How wrong is this? Girl becomes guy but stays on girls' team.

[TUSooner]

I can barely fathom the whole gender switching thing, but I can deal with it, However, it seems to me that if you want to be a boy, you have to play with the boys. you can't have it both ways. This is trying to have your... uh.... and.....umm. Well, it's cheating! The male-to-female Renee Richards played women's tennis, right? GWU has exceeded the boundaries of the absurd, which in the 21st Century is quite a score.


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/news/story?id=5758450


Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- A female-to-male transgender member of the George Washington women's basketball team wants to be identified as a man this season.

Junior Kye Allums -- who used to be known as Kay-Kay -- is referred to on the school's website as a "male member of George Washington's women's basketball team."

“

I didn't choose to be born in this body and feel the way I do. I decided to transition ... I am trying to help myself and others to be who they are.
” -- Kye Allums

"GW has been supportive during this transition. This means a lot. I didn't choose to be born in this body and feel the way I do. I decided to transition -- that is, change my name and pronouns -- because it bothered me to hide who I am, and I am trying to help myself and others to be who they are," Allums said in a statement posted Tuesday on the website.

"I told my teammates first, and they, including my coaches, have supported me. My teammates have embraced me as the big brother of the team," continued Allums, who turned 21 last month. "They have been my family, and I love them all."

A story posted Monday on outsports.com reported that "Allums will be the first publicly transgender person" to play NCAA Division I college basketball. NCAA spokesman Rick Nixon did not immediately reply to a request for comment Tuesday from the AP.

GW senior vice provost Robert Chernak, who is the school's senior vice president for student academic and support services, said Allums "has informed the university that he will not begin any medical or drug protocols while a student-athlete. The university consulted the NCAA regarding his competitive status. Kye will continue to be a member of the women's basketball team."

Chernak also said the university "supports Kye and his right to make this decision."

Allums started 20 games for George Washington last season, averaging 7.4 points and 4.6 rebounds in 24.9 minutes. Allums scored a career-high 21 points in a 58-50 victory over La Salle on Jan. 24.

According to GW's website, Allums was honored as the 2008 Minnesota Miss Basketball.

"The George Washington University women's basketball program, including myself, support Kye's right to make this decision," head coach Mike Bozeman said in a statement on the school's website.

George Washington opens its 2010-11 season on Nov. 13 against Green Bay in a tournament at Minneapolis.

[olevetonahill]

Bro , If He/She wants to have a dick , he/she should have the balls to swing it .:rolleyes:

[royalfan5]

Well, she hasn't actually had any hormone therapy so she is still a woman. If she/he is a good player, I'd assume they would want to keep her around. I don't see any reason to get up in arms about this.

[TUSooner]

Well, she hasn't actually had any hormone therapy so she is still a woman. If she/he is a good player, I'd assume they would want to keep her around. I don't see any reason to get up in arms about this.

In fact, I couldn't care less about basketball. Period. And I'm not really "up in arms." I just am repelled by the dishonesty of the whole scene. This person wants to be a man and to be known as a man. And I suspect he would be very upset if you called him a her. So how can he seriously make any claims to be treated as a man while still playing women's sports?

As an aside: People that age frequently make bad decisions which they regret later in life. Maybe she should have just gotten a tattoo.

[royalfan5]

In fact, I couldn't care less about basketball. Period. And I'm not really "up in arms." I just am repelled by the dishonesty of the whole scene. This person wants to be a man and to be known as a man. And I suspect he would be very upset if you called him a her. So how can he seriously make any claims to be treated as a man while still playing women's sports?

As an aside: People that age frequently make bad decisions which they regret later in life. Maybe she should have just gotten a tattoo.

Probably because the playyers teammates want to keep their teammate more than they are worried about other stuff.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

A female-to-male transgender member of the George Washington women's basketball team wants to be identified as a man this season.


Seems to me the best way to do this is get off the women's basketball team

[Frozen Sooner]

In fact, I couldn't care less about basketball. Period. And I'm not really "up in arms." I just am repelled by the dishonesty of the whole scene. This person wants to be a man and to be known as a man. And I suspect he would be very upset if you called him a her. So how can he seriously make any claims to be treated as a man while still playing women's sports?

As an aside: People that age frequently make bad decisions which they regret later in life. Maybe she should have just gotten a tattoo.

I think the relevant comparison is that a man changing to woman is generally denied access to play on the women's teams. In international competition, at least, they check the chromosomes. So I guess it cuts both ways.

From the standpoint of what SHOULD be, though, I'm with you. You've undergone gender reassignment surgery, you're a different sex.

[Ike]

I honestly don't have any problem with it. Physiologically, she/he/he/she is still a woman, and no hormones or drugs are being administered (yet), so from a competitive standpoint, there are no issues at all. she/he/he/she wants to stay on the team with the teammates she/he/he/she has grown to call family. Teammates and coaches want her/him/him/her to stay too (or at least thats what I infer from the article). So really all thats changed are the words she/he/he/she wants used to describe her/him/him/her, and possibly her/his/his/her appearance. Which, IMO, means that the only people in a position to judge whether that justifies a move from the womens team to the mens team are her coaches and teammates. Seems that those people have made their decision.


So as to "how wrong is that?" I am inclined to say "not wrong in the slightest".

[Leroy Lizard]

If she is female, she is female. It is wrong to refer her as a male member of the basketball team, because she's not a male. She is not transgender, and it is incorrect to refer her as a he or him.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/11/03/alg_kay%20allums.jpg

Suppose she wanted to be white. Would it be correct for the media to report her as a white athlete?

[soonerchk]

I can declare myself the Boss of the World, and it still doesn't make it so.


Until surgery/hormone therapy, she's still a she. Let her play if she wants.

[TUSooner]

If she is female, she is female. It is wrong to refer her as a male member of the basketball team, because she's not a male. She is not transgender, and it is incorrect to refer her as a he or him.

That's my point. Language means nothing at all when you can say she - I mean he -- is a male member of the women's basketball team. That linguistic and logical nonsense would make George Orwell chortle in his grave. Talk about Newspeak! If she's still a female, then let her play, but for the sake of simple common sense and reason, don't call her a man while she's playing.

I guess I should have phrased the thread title with "absurd" instead of "wrong."

Or maybe Humpty Dumpty was right...



"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all."

[olevetonahill]

Instead of calling her a Guy why not just call her what she is , One ****ed up individual :pop:

Heres a Pic of her
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Transgender-George-Washington-player-a-fascinati?urn=ncaab-282180

[Leroy Lizard]

That's my point. Language means nothing at all when you can say she - I mean he -- is a male member of the women's basketball team. That linguistic and logical nonsense would make George Orwell chortle in his grave. Talk about Newspeak! If she's still a female, then let her play, but for the sake of simple common sense and reason, don't call her a man while she's playing.

I guess I should have phrased the thread title with "absurd" instead of "wrong."

Or maybe Humpty Dumpty was right...

What's next?

"An unidentified black/white male fled in a late-model Ford/Chevrolet..."

Sometimes I wonder if the media has any standards at all.

[TUSooner]

Instead of calling her a Guy why not just call her what she is , One ****ed up individual :pop:

Heres a Pic of her
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Transgender-George-Washington-player-a-fascinati?urn=ncaab-282180

As I said, people that age have been known to make decisions that they come to regret. But I wasn't trying to start a referendum on her wisdom.

Still, I was reminded of Mike Penner / Christine Daniels, the trans-transgendered sportswriter who went from male to female (without surgery) in 2007 -- at the age of 50, not 20 -- then back to being a male, then to suicide in 2009. That must have been one troubled life. Mike's case brought attentiion to the issue of "transgender regret." This is just the surface story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Penner Here's something about the regret thing. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-02-24-transgender-penner_N.htm

[Leroy Lizard]

Still, I was reminded of Mike Penner / Christine Daniels, the trans-transgendered sportswriter who went from male to female (without surgery) in 2007 -- at the age of 50, not 20 -- then back to being a male, then to suicide in 2009.

"In ancient Rome
there was a poem
about a dog
who had two bones.
He picked at one,
he licked the other,
he went in circles
'till he dropped dead."

[kbsooner21]

Seems to me the best way to do this is get off the women's basketball team

Bingo!

[StoopTroup]

I think the real question here is....is she/he an organ donor?

[TUSooner]

"In ancient Rome
there was a poem
about a dog
who had two bones.
He picked at one,
he licked the other,
he went in circles
'till he dropped dead."

Somewhat ironically, the article on transgender regret was writen 9 months before Penner's suicide and ended with this from Claire Winter, a transsexual who mentored Penner :

"I would say give (Penner) some time," Winter says. "We have to wait for him to let us know when he figures it out."

I guess he got tired of figuring. :(

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I think the real question here is....is she/he an organ donor?



or who will donate her their organ?!

BAZINGA!

[Leroy Lizard]

Somewhat ironically, the article on transgender regret was writen 9 months before Penner's suicide and ended with this from Claire Winter, a transsexual who mentored Penner :

"I would say give (Penner) some time," Winter says. "We have to wait for him to let us know when he figures it out."

I guess he got tired of figuring. :(

Or maybe he did figure it out.

No cool comments about my Devo lyrics. :mad:

[3rdgensooner]

If she were playing softball no one would notice.

[Jacie]

Does he still use the same lockerroom as the rest of the team?

On a related note, my youngest daughter was on her college soccer team during her freshman year. One evening, about midway through the season, the girls were returning to the dorms after a night of partying. A couple of the girls began to kiss each other out in the parking lot. My daughter was surprised and one of her teammates told her, "Oh yeah, one of them is gay and the other is bi." Home for dinner one evening she related the story to us and then in a somewhat disgusted manner said, "In the lockerroom she (the gay one) was next to me when I was naked!" The idea that her teammate would look at her the same way a boy would was a little unsettling to her.

[royalfan5]

Does he still use the same lockerroom as the rest of the team?

On a related note, my youngest daughter was on her college soccer team during her freshman year. One evening, about midway through the season, the girls were returning to the dorms after a night of partying. A couple of the girls began to kiss each other out in the parking lot. My daughter was surprised and one of her teammates told her, "Oh yeah, one of them is gay and the other is bi." Home for dinner one evening she related the story to us and then in a somewhat disgusted manner said, "In the lockerroom she (the gay one) was next to me when I was naked!" The idea that her teammate would look at her the same way a boy would was a little unsettling to her.

It's high level women's baskeball. She probably ain't the only one on the team that likes chicks.