Christians, your views on Demons/Devil/Occult

[MR2-Sooner86]

Since it's Halloween I figured I'd bring up a subject in the spirit of the holiday. I went to go see Paranormal Activity 2 last night and on the way home I got to thinking about things I've heard throughout the years and stories I've heard from church members, preachers, and religious people on the subject of demons/devil/ouiji boards/occult/etc.

Question, as a Christian, what are your views on demons, the devil, ouiji boards, occult, devil worship, etc? If you believe in Jesus and the Bible, then you believe there is a Satan and his followers who were thrown from Heaven and roam the Earth until the end times, correct? If there is a God and Jesus with their good, then their must be a bad in Satan, the anti-Christ, and demons, correct? If God and Jesus has the power to work in people's lives, then Satan and demons have the power to as well, correct?

I'm just curious what believers believe in regards to...well evil. If Jesus is the light, then there is a darkness with Satan. If there are places in the world the light shines, there has to be places where there is darkness. Right?

Do you believe there are places on this Earth that you'd fear to go because there could be evil spirits there? For example I know there's an old building some people were telling me about that use to be a place where Satan worshipers met. I've heard it's now a store or something but people get this feeling when they go in there that there's something "bad" with that place, they feel very uncomfortable, and they want to leave. I've heard a preacher talk at our church I use to go to talk about a house where a pentagram was on the floor underneath the rug. The people had apparently been having all sorts of bad things happening in their house. They ripped the boards up and replaced it and he said he went into the house and commanded, "In the name of Jesus Christ I order all followers of Satan to leave!" or something like that. The folks never had a problem after that, he says.

My father talked to a missionary one time who swears he was trying to preach to a type of person of some Satanic church. The guy didn't want to hear about Jesus. The missionary kept trying and finally the guy looked at him and pushed his hands at him. The missionary claims he was lifted off the ground and thrown into the wall. The missionary quickly left after that.

I know several people who would turn white if I walked into their house with a ouiji board. These people swear it's a magnet for demons and some say, Satan himself. I heard of another preacher who said his son was in college and his roommates channeled a demon with a ouiji board and all the electronics in the dorm wouldn't work. Weird things were happening and anyway the preacher's son left the room not wanting to be in there and moved out because he didn't want to be around that. I've heard similar stories with ouiji boards the list goes on and on. Some people say it's stupid while others won't go near one again due to what happened to them when they "messed around with it" only to have something serious happen.

There are a couple of people I know of that swear members of their family were possessed by a demon. A couple of preachers that preached at the church I use to go to claim that they performed an exorcism.

I'm just curious what the Christians on this board have to say. Do you personally have experiences with this? Know of anybody? What are your views on this? As a Christian do you believe Satan, demons, and evil spirts our out in the world? If not, why? I'm just curious what everybody has to say and what you think. I know most people probably never think about this but if Christianity is true, there is bad with the good. What is your view on the bad or do you ignore it and pretend it isn't there?

Happy Halloween :pop:

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLW8as22M_8

[Okla-homey]

I'm just curious what the Christians on this board have to say. Do you personally have experiences with this? Know of anybody? What are your views on this? As a Christian do you believe Satan, demons, and evil spirts our out in the world? If not, why? I'm just curious what everybody has to say and what you think. I know most people probably never think about this but if Christianity is true, there is bad with the good. What is your view on the bad or do you ignore it and pretend it isn't there?



OK. I'll bite. I'm a Christian. I also believe there is evil in the world and that some people are controlled by it. I also believe in the incarnation of that evil in the form of Satan. I also believe Satan has helpers in the form of demons/demonic forces. I don't think folks should mess around with occultic stuff because frankly, I think it could very possibly be far more dangerous than anyone fully understands. That said, this is America and you have a First Amendment right to revere Satan if you want, just as you have a right to worship Baal, a tree, or your cat. But I wouldn't recommend Satan worship. Satan is the "Father of Lies," and therefore any perceived "benefit" derived from such reverance will lead ultimately to the Satanist's undoing.

[LosAngelesSooner]

As a Christian I believe there certainly are some things that we don't yet understand, and we don't know or understand everything, but I also believe that most of those stories are complete hysterical bunk or outright lies.

And I don't believe that there are "evil places" that are somehow truly evil. Evil people? For sure. Evil places? Nope.

[StoopTroup]

Anyone who's watched Southpark should understand what a loser Satan is.

[Partial Qualifier]

I consider myself a christian, admittedly a half-assed christian but I don't believe in ghosts, evil spirits, or any of that nonsense. Those things exist only inside the minds of certain people. All the stories like the missionary who got pushed up against the wall with the magic Satan forcefield, and the people who had the pentagram on their floor.. haunted houses...it is all either a coincidental set of circumstances or a simple case of b.s. that gets changed & refined as the story gets passed along by the people who want to believe it.

Satan as a "bad force" which tricks people into thinking evil is good? Sure. Satan, directly manifested in the physical world? No.

[picasso]

Any place void of God is evil.

That place would be hell.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Thanks to all for the responses. I'd like to state real quick that I am NOT mocking or making fun of anybody's beliefs with this thread. I'm NOT trying to make sarcastic remarks or anything of that nature. I'm NOT aiming to offend or upset anybody with this subject, make them uncomfortable, or try to make them say something and turn it against them.

The thing is this subject has always interested me. Halloween is my favorite holiday and I can't tell you how many books I have on ghost, bigfoot, the occult, etc. The thing is back in the days when I went to church, this was the thing that scared me more than anything. The idea of harmful evil demonic forces out there literally had me terrified at an early age. While I no longer go to church and my beliefs have changed, the subject still interests me and it still gives me a chill.

I know around here in my home town some guys were hunting out in the woods. They went way, way, way out there and they came upon a clearing. There was a pentagram burnt into the ground and at each point of the pentagram was a hole. Over each hole was a cement cover. Now, I don't care who you are, that scarey knowing there's people who do...whatever out in the woods all over the place. Even if you're not a believer, it's creepy. If you are a believer, it's even creepier and scarier.

Anyway, back to my point, I'm not trying to offend, make fun of, or mock anybody or their beliefs with this thread. As I said, I find the subject interesting and the stories I've heard throughout the years are very interesting. I just want to hear what others have to say in regards to the subject.

Thanks. Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread.


I don't think folks should mess around with occultic stuff because frankly, I think it could very possibly be far more dangerous than anyone fully understands.

Just curious homey, you mind going a little further with this? As I said, I know Christians who laugh at ouiji boards and think they're a hoax while others will run if they see one. What is it people could mess with that's dangerous and how can it be dangerous?

Thanks again for your response and views.

[Okla-homey]

Just curious homey, you mind going a little further with this? As I said, I know Christians who laugh at ouiji boards and think they're a hoax while others will run if they see one. What is it people could mess with that's dangerous and how can it be dangerous?

Thanks again for your response and views.

Mainly because Scripture is pretty clear and adamant that Jews, and also Christians, shouldn't mess with any of it. I don't run from Ouiji boards if I see one, but they have no allure for me because I can find all the answers I need within the covers of a very cool Book that has been a source of comfort, direction and hope for me and my people for centuries.

[Collier11]

OK. I'll bite. I'm a Christian. I also believe there is evil in the world and that some people are controlled by it. I also believe in the incarnation of that evil in the form of Satan. I also believe Satan has helpers in the form of demons/demonic forces. I don't think folks should mess around with occultic stuff because frankly, I think it could very possibly be far more dangerous than anyone fully understands. That said, this is America and you have a First Amendment right to revere Satan if you want, just as you have a right to worship Baal, a tree, or your cat. But I wouldn't recommend Satan worship. Satan is the "Father of Lies," and therefore any perceived "benefit" derived from such reverance will lead ultimately to the Satanist's undoing.

All of this

[Leroy Lizard]

Intent is everything. Whatever the roots of Halloween, those who trick-or-treat or wear costumes are not engaging in anything anti-Christian, so I find it mostly harmless fun.

I believe in evil, but I also don't waste time trying to root it out. I'm not playing my records backwards and I'm not trying to find dark messages in movies. Those who have their focus on the right path don't need to poke around in the alleys.

OTOH, my kids are dead-set against Halloween because of its pagan roots and worry about evil messages more than I do.

[AggieTool]

As a Deist, we understand that Demons/Devil/Occult are as much of a human construct as angels, Easter Bunnies, and old bearded white guys that live in the sky and don't want us to touch ourselves.:O

Wanna see a demon or devil? Just leave some dirty dishes in the sink at my house.

[AggieTool]

OTOH, my kids are dead-set against Halloween because of its pagan roots and worry about evil messages more than I do.

How old are they?:confused:

[GottaHavePride]

Intent is everything. Whatever the roots of Halloween, those who trick-or-treat or wear costumes are not engaging in anything anti-Christian, so I find it mostly harmless fun.

I believe in evil, but I also don't waste time trying to root it out. I'm not playing my records backwards and I'm not trying to find dark messages in movies. Those who have their focus on the right path don't need to poke around in the alleys.

OTOH, my kids are dead-set against Halloween because of its pagan roots and worry about evil messages more than I do.


Why do your kids hate candy?

And if they're like that, they're missing out on all the GOOD bands. ;)

[SicEmBaylor]

Increasingly, I can't stand Christians. At least the sort that partake in organized Christian activities and are evangelicals.

I almost started a thread like this myself last night, but I was in too good a mood after our win against UTerus.

Let me tell you all a story....

My hometown, God bless it, used to have a truly great Halloween atmosphere. Virtually every house was decorated, the downtown businesses all dressed up, kids wore their costumes to school...there were parties everywhere and then on Halloween night the Fire Department did this really neat thing with mist and had this scary guy on top of one of the engines yelling scary things to the kids that came by. It was truly spooky.

BUT....Fort Gibson also had about 1 church for every 10 residents and eventually the churches started having their own Halloween parties called "Fall Festivals." They basically pu**ified Halloween. Pretty soon, kids started going to church for these asinine programs instead of trick-or-treating. Pretty soon, the school stopped having Halloween parties and the Fire Department stopped their program. Trick-or-treating seriously dried up.

There are still trick or treaters today, but not nearly the number there used to be even though the population has increased.

Christians can't help themselves -- they have to interject themselves into every little thing that gives someone fun or pleasure. It's a freaking kids holiday...it gives kids a chance to scare themselves a little, dress up in costumes, and get some candy. There's nothing more to it than that.

And don't get me started on how "demonic" the origins of Halloween are. 99% of evangelicals believe that pagans are satanic devil worshipers. There's a huge huge difference between a pagan/Wiccan and a devil worshiper. The two aren't the least bit connected to one another.

I inadvertently went to a Wiccan festival on Gallows Hill in Salem on Halloween a few years ago. I was freaked a bit out, but as it turns out they were all friendly people and nothing the least bit evil was going on in their ceremony.

Look, I'm not saying every Christian is a fundamentalist retard, but the fundamentalist retards are in the driver's seat of the Jesus Express and someone needs to kick them to the curb. And I have absolutely no problem with religion or Christianity in and of itself. I think religion is a great thing when someone needs that sort of thing in their life. It can make men better men, but it can also make them *********s.

They already ruined the Republican Party -- now they're ruining Halloween.

/soapbox

[Leroy Lizard]

And if they're like that, they're missing out on all the GOOD bands.

Definitely not metal heads.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Funny that a bunch of us have kids rebelling against us and refusing to listen to metal.

I am finally getting my daughter indoctrinated into my devil worshipping metal ways though, so just one more to go. Maybe with him I'll just perform a ritual to make him love metal and then go sacrifice a goat.

[Collier11]

I heard that your son was going to be a Buble fan :D

[Leroy Lizard]

BUT....Fort Gibson also had about 1 church for every 10 residents and eventually the churches started having their own Halloween parties called "Fall Festivals." They basically pu**ified Halloween. Pretty soon, kids started going to church for these asinine programs instead of trick-or-treating. Pretty soon, the school stopped having Halloween parties and the Fire Department stopped their program. Trick-or-treating seriously dried up.

Why must your community have Halloween? Because you want it? If the people want to go to church instead of doing Halloween stuff, who are you to say otherwise? It's freedom of choice.

You blast Christians for imposing their view on others, but then cry when they decide not to partake in your favorite festivity.


And don't get me started on how "demonic" the origins of Halloween are. 99% of evangelicals believe that pagans are satanic devil worshipers. There's a huge huge difference between a pagan/Wiccan and a devil worshiper.

Not to Christians. In their vew, paganism/Wiccan is a faith that tends to pull people away from the teachings of the Lord. From that view, it is a source of evil, as are all non-Christian faiths.

God is not pc.

And don't blame me; I'm just the messenger.


Look, I'm not saying every Christian is a fundamentalist retard, but the fundamentalist retards are in the driver's seat of the Jesus Express and someone needs to kick them to the curb. And I have absolutely no problem with religion or Christianity in and of itself.

No, you just don't like it when people take the Gospel seriously and actually do what they think Jesus commands them to do. If you believe in the Gospel, you must make it a part of your life. Otherwise, you're just going through the motions to fit in with the crowd.

How many times do people say "But... but... I go to church every Sunday." Yeah, so what?

[Leroy Lizard]

Funny that a bunch of us have kids rebelling against us and refusing to listen to metal.

I am finally getting my daughter indoctrinated into my devil worshipping metal ways though, so just one more to go. Maybe with him I'll just perform a ritual to make him love metal and then go sacrifice a goat.

Just as a note: My kids are not rebelling against me. They're just serious in their faith.

That was a cool trying to rattle my cage with the indoctrination story, but it won't work. I simply don't give a rat's **** about your kids.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I was just being a wiseass anyway.

[GKeeper316]

its all just a big pile of fiction. god, the debil, vampires, santa clause, the easter bunny and freddy kruger.

just the crazy **** one dude thinks up and writes down in a way to make it seem almost plausible.

[SicEmBaylor]

Why must your community have Halloween? Because you want it? If the people want to go to church instead of doing Halloween stuff, who are you to say otherwise? It's freedom of choice.

You blast Christians for imposing their view on others, but then cry when they decide not to partake in your favorite festivity.



Not to Christians. In their vew, paganism/Wiccan is a faith that tends to pull people away from the teachings of the Lord. From that view, it is a source of evil, as are all non-Christian faiths.

God is not pc.

And don't blame me; I'm just the messenger.



No, you just don't like it when people take the Gospel seriously and actually do what they think Jesus commands them to do. If you believe in the Gospel, you must make it a part of your life. Otherwise, you're just going through the motions to fit in with the crowd.

How many times do people say "But... but... I go to church every Sunday." Yeah, so what?

This is nonsense. I never said everyone should conform to my world view that kids ought to enjoy Halloween for what it is. I've never gone up to someone and lectured them on the virtues of trick-or-treating; for that matter, I've never ever heard anyone else do so either.

I'll tell you what I have heard, I have been subjected to bible-thumping nitwits try to get me to conform to their world view more times than I can count.

Hell, getting people to conform to their world view is the modus-operendi of the evangelical movement. The only people worse than evangelicals at trying to get people to believe as they do is the militant-left.

[SicEmBaylor]

As a Deist, we understand that Demons/Devil/Occult are as much of a human construct as angels, Easter Bunnies, and old bearded white guys that live in the sky and don't want us to touch ourselves.:O

Wanna see a demon or devil? Just leave some dirty dishes in the sink at my house.

I'm a Deist as well. However, I do believe in ghosts. I don't normally buy into any of that ****, but living in the house that I grew up in changes your perspective of things.

[GKeeper316]

I'm a Deist as well. However, I do believe in ghosts. I don't normally buy into any of that ****, but living in the house that I grew up in changes your perspective of things.

the first house we lived in in england was older than columbus' voyage... had a hearthstone dated at 1490.

huge old manor type house that had been vacant for decades before we moved in. all those horror movies about the deserted house and the young family and whatnot? based on that ****ing house. that place was haunted and terrifying. and im not just saying that because i was 5 when we lived there. fer serious.

[SicEmBaylor]

the first house we lived in in england was older than columbus' voyage... had a hearthstone dated at 1490.

huge old manor type house that had been vacant for decades before we moved in. all those horror movies about the deserted house and the young family and whatnot? based on that ****ing house. that place was haunted and terrifying. and im not just saying that because i was 5 when we lived there. fer serious.

Not that I'm trying to shamelessly sell my mother's book or anything, but she did write a book on the subject of the ghosts in our house.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Ghosts-of-the-Mcbride-House/Cecilia-Back/e/9780738715056/?itm=1&USRI=ghosts+of+the+mcbride+house

Google preview: http://books.google.com/books?id=Dr3lWXwJotsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=ghosts+of+the+mcbride+house&hl=en&ei=XozOTNP2DoaglAfz07XnCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

[SunnySooner]

As a Christian, I believe in The Dark Side as well--similar to what Homey stated. I was also taught that people who mess around with the occult, ouija boards, seances, etc. are willingly opening themselves up to "demon possession", in the sense that they are letting their lives and actions be influenced by evil forces. In other words, a demon cannot posses you while you're cruising down I-35 in your pickup blaring Ozzy, but if you invite those forces into your life, thru "worship" of Satan, mind-altering drug use, participation in deviant behaviors, etc., then those are the forces that will start to rule every aspect of your life, and you may find yourself up **** creek in a hurry.

My only experience with something like that is an old Sunday school teacher of mine. She was a perfectly normal woman, late 30's, had been married to a man everyone really loved because he was just one of those sweet, big-hearted, gentle, kind, give-you-the-shirt-off-his-back type of guy. They seemed very happy, 2 kids, etc. However, as she got older, she fell into a depression, and wasn't able to shake it with the treatments available at the time (early 80's). She started dabbling in drugs, and then went into a full downward spiral--they stopped coming to church, etc. Pretty soon, she was having her teenage daughter shoplift for her so she could pawn the stuff for $$, that kind of thing. She also began an affair with the 16 yr. old boy who lived next door. They finally decided to kill her husband so they could be together (gag), and so the kid took a baseball bat to the husband's head while he was sleeping. He tried to fight, but they think he was somehow drugged, and was killed. A neighbor saw the wife and the kid carrying what looked like a rolled up rug, but was obviously heavy (husband was big guy), to the trunk of her car. The husband's boat was then hooked up and they drove off. Well, the neighbor knew they'd had problems, so she called the cops, and the deputy who pulled her over was our next door neighbor. He said he asked her to open the trunk, and she replied calmly, "Well, I guess I've been had." The cop found her husband's body, dressed in fishing clothes. Their plan was to weight him down and dump him in the lake, and make it appear to be some sort of boating accident. She had even packed him a cooler with sandwiches and drinks. So, the kid got a lighter sentence (he turned on her pretty quick and testified against her), she got murder 1 for the premeditation, and is now rotting in prison. I guess she's still alive, she'd be close to 70 now. The court gave the kids to--yep--HER parents. The ones that did so well with their daughter, even though the husband's parents--the ones that had raised a wonderful man--wanted them desperately. Last I heard, they didn't turn out too well, duh.

Anyway, my story kind of illustrates what I mean by "demon possession"--she went from a kind, loving wife and mom to a murderess after she got heavily into drugs and turned away from God. She was a cold one, too. She wrote my mom a letter from prison, claiming her innocence, and asking my mom to pray for her, because "after all, I've lost a husband in all of this". NO regrets, just a play for sympathy. Scary.

[AlbqSooner]

Halloween is a derivation of the phrase "All Hallows Evening". November 1 is referred to as All Saints Day. The evening before, due to the coiming of all saints day, was believed to be a time that demons and so forth were fleeing their ordinary hiding places in order not to be found by the forces of good which naturally accompanied the saints.

I am a Christian, but I believe that those Christians who condemn Halloween fail to realize that it represents a purging of all things demonic. Hence, as Christians, we should celebrate it.

Those who say that the minons of Satan are simply the mind construct of impressionable people cannot seem to explain the Hitlers, Pol Pots, Roger Staffords and such who definitely do populate this world.

[virginiasooner]

Practicing Christian here. I have an understanding the Celtic background of Halloween. In Celtic belief, All Hallows eve was the point in the year where the realm of the dead and living were closest. People would don disguises in order to confuse the spirits who crossed over. People would also place an offering outside their home so the spirits wouldn't bother the residents.

And I don't believe in the Devil, Satan, or witches (which was just a convenient way for ancient/medieval society to get rid of troublesome women, old women, and crazy women). I am not denying that people are evil. All you have to do is watch cable tee vee news to see evil all around.

[Collier11]

Question Virginia, how can you be a Christian and not believe in the Devil? I can understand witches and all that stuff but it clearly talks about the Devil in the Bible. Just curious?

[Blue]

And there is also many references in the Bible about Jesus casting out demons or evil spirits. I definitely believe there is a spiritual battle going on all around us that we can't see.

1 Peter 5:8 “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” ...

Most know I'm not the best example of the faith, but I have no problem with halloween. I don't celebrate it at all bc i have no interest in it anymore, but I don't have a problem with those that do.

[picasso]

its all just a big pile of fiction. god, the debil, vampires, santa clause, the easter bunny and freddy kruger.

just the crazy **** one dude thinks up and writes down in a way to make it seem almost plausible.

You're an idiot and would get smoked by a theologian.

Just sayin'.

[soonerchk]

I'm against demons/devil/occult.

I'm also against middle school girls dressed as slutty nuns for Halloween.

[IB4OU2]

I think Baylor being on top in the South right now is the Devils work. :mad:

[Veritas]

Hauntings and ghosts are the results of the human body's response to infrasound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound). Basically, your senses lose their **** when exposed to frequencies around 18Hz.

[JohnnyMack]

aZ9MUycYD6Y

[Oldnslo]

Jewish.

The idea of satan has a being with dominion over a metaphysical realm never caught on in Judaism.

[JohnnyMack]

Jewish.

The idea of satan has a being with dominion over a metaphysical realm never caught on in Judaism.

How do Jews deal with vampires? I mean, beyond the standard stake through the heart.

[picasso]

Hauntings and ghosts are the results of the human body's response to infrasound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound). Basically, your senses lose their **** when exposed to frequencies around 18Hz.

There was a ghost going through our things on our honeymoon at this old B&B in Taos.
Middle of the night and it sounds like the cleaning lady is in our flat. But alas, nobody there but us.

Meh.

[Collier11]

gas?

[StoopTroup]

You're an idiot and would get smoked by a theologian.

Just sayin'.

You and I agreed on something again. What should we do now? :D

[HBick]

I don't believe in ghosts, evil spirits, or any of that nonsense. Those things exist only inside the minds of certain people.

You sir, have never been to the Haunted Mansion in OKC for dinner.

[Howzit]

Just as a note: My kids are not rebelling against me. They're just serious in their faith.

That was a cool trying to rattle my cage with the indoctrination story, but it won't work. I simply don't give a rat's **** about your kids.

Your sarcasm meter sucks.

What makes you think we give a rat's *** about your kids? Maybe we should start a pole.

[soonerchk]

You and I agreed on something again. What should we do now? :D

Make out. Post pics.

[virginiasooner]

Question Virginia, how can you be a Christian and not believe in the Devil? I can understand witches and all that stuff but it clearly talks about the Devil in the Bible. Just curious?

I just don't. It's a position I've come to after a lot of reading on the subject, along with spiritual reflection. Jews don't believe in the Devil or Satan either. I'm not saying there's no such thing as evil -- there's plenty of evidence that evil is all around us. I don't blame an evil entity for when bad things happen. There's a lot in the Bible I don't believe (because it doesn't hold up in the archeological record).

[Blue]

I just don't. It's a position I've come to after a lot of reading on the subject, along with spiritual reflection. Jews don't believe in the Devil or Satan either. I'm not saying there's no such thing as evil -- there's plenty of evidence that evil is all around us. I don't blame an evil entity for when bad things happen. There's a lot in the Bible I don't believe (because it doesn't hold up in the archeological record).

So your not buying satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness, Jesus casting out evil spirits, and basically the entire New Testament? OK.

[Collier11]

I just don't. It's a position I've come to after a lot of reading on the subject, along with spiritual reflection. Jews don't believe in the Devil or Satan either. I'm not saying there's no such thing as evil -- there's plenty of evidence that evil is all around us. I don't blame an evil entity for when bad things happen. There's a lot in the Bible I don't believe (because it doesn't hold up in the archeological record).

Jews and Christians dont carry the same beliefs on alot of things

[virginiasooner]

So your not buying satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness, Jesus casting out evil spirits, and basically the entire New Testament? OK.

Medicine has advanced a lot in the past 2000 years. Lots of illnesses were called "demonic possession", like epilepsy. As to what happened in the wilderness, I don't know. I wasn't there.

[OhU1]

So your not buying satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness, Jesus casting out evil spirits, and basically the entire New Testament? OK.

(a lot of us don't ;) )

[Blue]

Medicine has advanced a lot in the past 2000 years. Lots of illnesses were called "demonic possession", like epilepsy. As to what happened in the wilderness, I don't know. I wasn't there.

Jesus and the apostles called it demonic posession. He raised Lazarus from the dead. I'm sure you don't believe that either. He himself died and rose from the dead. I'm sure you don't believe that either.

I'm not trying to judge or argue with you. It just doesn't seem to me that you believe at all.

[Blue]

(a lot of us don't ;) )

You didn't claim to be a Christian.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

As to what happened in the wilderness, I don't know. I wasn't there.

So.....Was you there for the crucifixition and resurrection?

[Blue]

Many times Jesus talked about childlike faith. "Blessed are those that believe, who have not seen." Basically there's no way to rationalize it all. You either believe in the miraculous, the spiritual realm, and Gods sacrifice of his son to cover our sins, or you don't.

Not trying to preach here, so I'll back off.

[Partial Qualifier]

You sir, have never been to the Haunted Mansion in OKC for dinner.

:D actually, I have several times.

this place, right? http://www.hauntedhouserestaurant.com/history.nxg

[stoops the eternal pimp]

STOP PREACHING!

[Blue]

STOP PREACHING!

Heh. I should know better. :D

[StoopTroup]

So.....Was you there for the crucifixition and resurrection?

How much were tickets? Did Ticketmaster hold the good seats back?

[3rdgensooner]

Please allow me to introduce myself
...

[stoops the eternal pimp]

How much were tickets? Did Ticketmaster hold the good seats back?

Well let me tell ya...


I don't believe this part of the Bible because I wasn't there, but for this part!.....man, best time I've ever had!

[virginiasooner]

Jesus and the apostles called it demonic posession. He raised Lazarus from the dead. I'm sure you don't believe that either. He himself died and rose from the dead. I'm sure you don't believe that either.

I'm not trying to judge or argue with you. It just doesn't seem to me that you believe at all.

I'll be succinct on what I believe: There is one Lord Jesus Christ. The rest is a dispute over trifles. Do you know who said it? Elizabeth I. And I learned it in Tudor History back in 1980, taught by Dr. Robert Spurgeon.

I also don't believe that bats are birds or dolphins are fish (as stated in the Bible). But waffles are delicious!

[Howzit]

I'm against demons/devil/occult.

I'm also against middle school girls dressed as slutty nuns for Halloween.


You and I agreed on something again. What should we do now? :D

It's like you're soulmates or something.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Alright I figure I'll clear a few things up. When I posted this I wasn't talking about Halloween. Since it was Halloween I figured this would be a good subject. For some reason demon possession doesn't make good Christmas dinner conversation. I wasn't trying to link Halloween as being a "satanic holiday" or anything like that in case anybody was wondering.

Anyway, I guess what I'm asking is taking ideas and turning them a different direction.

For instance a couple people said they don't believe in demon possession. Alright that's fine but what about people who talk in tongues?

I mean if somebody can be "overcome with the spirit of God" can they also be overcome with the spirit or Satan or a demon? If you believe in one but not the other, why?

People on here I'm assuming pray to God. Things happen in people's lives and they say it's God acting. What I want to ask is if God can hear your prayers and act in your life, can Satan?

I remember reading in the Bible that when God threw Satan out of Heaven he was banished to roam the Earth until the end times. When the end times come Satan, the demons that are his followers (the angels who sided with him), and all those who didn't accept Jesus will be cast into the Lake of Fire/Hell. Until that time comes Satan is on Earth and has control over it. For instance when Satan tempted Jesus, he took him to the mountain and showed him the kingdoms of the Earth and told him he could have all of it if he just worshiped him.

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is if you go by the Bible, the Earth is Satan's domain and he and his demons run around it. So, if God can act in people lives, can't Satan as well? Are films like The Exorcist really that far off from reality? I guess that's what I'm trying to ask and hear your guy's stories if you have any. I told some of mine and some people think they were exaggerated and that's fine. I want to hear what you guys thinks.

Thanks again to all who have posted on here and contributed.

[Howzit]

I'm here to help.

[StoopTroup]

Finding God's Publisher is key to making sure you find what you need...

http://www.jesuschrist.co.uk/tongues/images/tonguessmallsignupbox.gif

He went on sabbatical in the UK once and wrote the manual for us.

[GKeeper316]

You're an idiot and would get smoked by a theologian.

Just sayin'.

you're a dick and no i wouldn't.

just sayin'.

[soonerchk]

you're a dick and no i wouldn't.

just sayin'.

Wait just one minute here. It's okay to say dick, but not pi$$?

****

[Scott D]

Deism ftw. That is all.

Personally I think the Devil was a creation just to express how excessive pride and vanity aren't good things for a person.

Besides, if there's a hell how do you know that your physical existence isn't in that hell, and you're forever working your entire life to rise up out of that existence?

[Cornfed]

Just curious, to the deists. Which deity do you beleive in?

[hellogoodbye]

Question, as a Christian, what are your views on demons, the devil, ouiji boards, occult, devil worship, etc?

Personification of the abstract (its all there in your head [good\bad\beauty\ugly]). The Greeks had the best take :)


but what about people who talk in tongues?
attention seekers?

[Oldnslo]

I'll be succinct on what I believe: There is one Lord Jesus Christ. The rest is a dispute over trifles. Do you know who said it? Elizabeth I. And I learned it in Tudor History back in 1980, taught by Dr. Robert Spurgeon.

I also don't believe that bats are birds or dolphins are fish (as stated in the Bible). But waffles are delicious!

Dr. Spurgeon was The Man. Best. Prof. Ever. Was the single reason I ended up with a minor in History.

[Scott D]

Just curious, to the deists. Which deity do you beleive in?

Generally speaking Deism is believing in God, but that God doesn't "meddle" in the day to day affairs of humanity.

[IB4OU2]

Deism ftw. That is all.

Personally I think the Devil was a creation just to express how excessive pride and vanity aren't good things for a person.

Besides, if there's a hell how do you know that your physical existence isn't in that hell, and you're forever working your entire life to rise up out of that existence?

I think you're confusing hell with Stillwater.

[Cornfed]

Generally speaking Deism is believing in God, but that God doesn't "meddle" in the day to day affairs of humanity.

That doesnt answer the question.

What or whom do you consider to be the supreme being?

Hiding behind a catch all definition leads me to lean towards blatant indecision.

[Scott D]

I wasn't aware that the supreme being had to have a specific name.

There were a great deal of founding fathers of this country who were Deists. It's not like it's something that is a new wave of beliefs.

[Cornfed]

So because some believe that "founding fathers" were deists lends credibility to it?

Most of the early 17th century "deists" I feel were simply running from being associated with Cathoisizm....lol but thats anothe rdiscussion.

I can look in the dictionary to get the definition of Deism, But doesnt a person that latches onto the beleifs of another writer lend himself to the same thing he refuses to believe in?

[Scott D]

Wouldn't that be an atheist?

[Cornfed]

But ansering the OPs question for myself personnally... Been there done that.

[SicEmBaylor]

Just curious, to the deists. Which deity do you beleive in?

I firmly believe in God -- a "great architect" of the universe, if you will. I think God created man and gave us the gift of logic, reason, and free-will.

I believe the Bible is a fantastic book filled with excellent parables. I think the stories in the bible are meant to impart lessons in morality and ethics and how we should treat our fellow man. I do not, however, believe it should be taken in an absolute literal sense especially considering that it was written by man and man, after all, is fallible. Not to mention the number of times its been translated from one language to another.

[SicEmBaylor]

So because some believe that "founding fathers" were deists lends credibility to it?

Most of the early 17th century "deists" I feel were simply running from being associated with Cathoisizm....lol but thats anothe rdiscussion.

I can look in the dictionary to get the definition of Deism, But doesnt a person that latches onto the beleifs of another writer lend himself to the same thing he refuses to believe in?

Everything you just wrote is so completely and utterly wrong. There's no doubt many (not all) of the Founding Fathers were deists. This country was created as the national embodiment of the Enlightenment principles.

Also, it's the 18th century -- not the 17th century. The 17th century refers to the 1600s, the 18th century is the 1700s, etc. etc.

[Cornfed]

I firmly believe in God -- a "great architect" of the universe, if you will. I think God created man and gave us the gift of logic, reason, and free-will.

I believe the Bible is a fantastic book filled with excellent parables. I think the stories in the bible are meant to impart lessons in morality and ethics and how we should treat our fellow man. I do not, however, believe it should be taken in an absolute literal sense especially considering that it was written by man and man, after all, is fallible. Not to mention the number of times its been translated from one language to another.

I see your reasoning for your personnal self, but what do YOU think?

Man truly is falable, but do you not believe that a "supreme" being would have the capablity to get his words to us? I mean create a complex ecosystem yes.. get your thoughts to mankind no?

[Ike]

Just curious, to the deists. Which deity do you beleive in?

All of them. The entire infinite spectrum of dieties.

[Cornfed]

Everything you just wrote is so completely and utterly wrong. There's no doubt many (not all) of the Founding Fathers were deists. This country was created as the national embodiment of the Enlightenment principles.

Also, it's the 18th century -- not the 17th century. The 17th century refers to the 1600s, the 18th century is the 1700s, etc. etc.

I see where my statement lended to confusion, I should have seperated the two subject of 17th century Deists and founding fathers.

I beleive the modern deist lends his beleifs to 17th century french writers. Sorry for the mix-up.

[Cornfed]

I believe the Bible is a fantastic book filled with excellent parables. I think the stories in the bible are meant to impart lessons in morality and ethics and how we should treat our fellow man. I do not, however, believe it should be taken in an absolute literal sense especially considering that it was written by man and man, after all, is fallible. Not to mention the number of times its been translated from one language to another.

Thanks again for taking the time..

My personnal feelings on the bible are that God transferred this to man and not in the letter, but the action has man failed.

[Cornfed]

All of them. The entire infinite spectrum of dieties.

My head would explode....lol

[Ike]

My head would explode....lol

It's actually quite liberating, as all dogmatic practices demanded by any deity are exactly canceled by anothers.

[Cornfed]

It's actually quite liberating, as all dogmatic practices demanded by any deity are exactly canceled by anothers.

I hate dogmatic practices.

[TUSooner]

Increasingly, I can't stand Christians. At least the sort that partake in organized Christian activities and are evangelicals.

I almost started a thread like this myself last night, but I was in too good a mood after our win against UTerus.

Let me tell you all a story....

My hometown, God bless it, used to have a truly great Halloween atmosphere. Virtually every house was decorated, the downtown businesses all dressed up, kids wore their costumes to school...there were parties everywhere and then on Halloween night the Fire Department did this really neat thing with mist and had this scary guy on top of one of the engines yelling scary things to the kids that came by. It was truly spooky.

BUT....Fort Gibson also had about 1 church for every 10 residents and eventually the churches started having their own Halloween parties called "Fall Festivals." They basically pu**ified Halloween. Pretty soon, kids started going to church for these asinine programs instead of trick-or-treating. Pretty soon, the school stopped having Halloween parties and the Fire Department stopped their program. Trick-or-treating seriously dried up.

There are still trick or treaters today, but not nearly the number there used to be even though the population has increased.

Christians can't help themselves -- they have to interject themselves into every little thing that gives someone fun or pleasure. It's a freaking kids holiday...it gives kids a chance to scare themselves a little, dress up in costumes, and get some candy. There's nothing more to it than that.

And don't get me started on how "demonic" the origins of Halloween are. 99% of evangelicals believe that pagans are satanic devil worshipers. There's a huge huge difference between a pagan/Wiccan and a devil worshiper. The two aren't the least bit connected to one another.

I inadvertently went to a Wiccan festival on Gallows Hill in Salem on Halloween a few years ago. I was freaked a bit out, but as it turns out they were all friendly people and nothing the least bit evil was going on in their ceremony.

Look, I'm not saying every Christian is a fundamentalist retard, but the fundamentalist retards are in the driver's seat of the Jesus Express and someone needs to kick them to the curb. And I have absolutely no problem with religion or Christianity in and of itself. I think religion is a great thing when someone needs that sort of thing in their life. It can make men better men, but it can also make them *********s.

They already ruined the Republican Party -- now they're ruining Halloween.

/soapbox

I enjoyed reading that. :D
Some of Christendom's most dangerous enemies are well-meaning, zealous, and ignorant Christians, like "the fundamentalist retards... in the driver's seat of the Jesus Express." And the ones who believe the bogus "scholarship" about Obama being a Muslim antichrist and so on (don't get me started on those bozos - they're gonna start the "nucular holycaust" just to try to force Jesus's hand.)

As for the original post: I am not a Bible literalisto, but evil exists for sure. And whether Satan is an actual being (like Jesus Christ) or a mythical personification of cosmic evil, lies, etc., those who worship will him/it reap what they sow, and it ain't peace and joy.

As for Halloween, the only evil about it is what is injected into it by diptards, like "the fundamentalist retards... in the driver's seat of the Jesus Express." I guarantee we never gave the devil half a thought when we went trick-or-treating... until the diptard baptists in our town started bringing it up an ruining our harmless fun.

[Blue]

I enjoyed reading that. :D
Some of Christendom's most dangerous enemies are well-meaning, zealous, and ignorant Christians, like "the fundamentalist retards... in the driver's seat of the Jesus Express." And the ones who believe the bogus "scholarship" about Obama being a Muslim antichrist and so on (don't get me started on those bozos - they're gonna start the "nucular holycaust" just to try to force Jesus's hand.)

As for the original post: I am not a Bible literalisto, but evil exists for sure. And whether Satan is an actual being (like Jesus Christ) or a mythical personification of cosmic evil, lies, etc., those who worship will him/it reap what they sow, and it ain't peace and joy.

As for Halloween, the only evil about it is what is injected into it by diptards, like "the fundamentalist retards... in the driver's seat of the Jesus Express." I guarantee we never gave the devil half a thought when we went trick-or-treating... until the diptard baptists in our town started bringing it up an ruining our harmless fun.

For real. Be a good Christian. be a catholic. Use that bible for a coaster and do whatever you want. ;)

[picasso]

you're a dick and no i wouldn't.

just sayin'.

Fair enough. But you should check yourself before you post something so broadly stupid and offensive to so many folks who post here.

And yes you would get smoked by the fairest theologian. My older brother has a masters on said subject and religion, ALL religions are far more complex than your silly statement.

[SicEmBaylor]

I enjoyed reading that. :D
Some of Christendom's most dangerous enemies are well-meaning, zealous, and ignorant Christians, like "the fundamentalist retards... in the driver's seat of the Jesus Express." And the ones who believe the bogus "scholarship" about Obama being a Muslim antichrist and so on (don't get me started on those bozos - they're gonna start the "nucular holycaust" just to try to force Jesus's hand.)

As for the original post: I am not a Bible literalisto, but evil exists for sure. And whether Satan is an actual being (like Jesus Christ) or a mythical personification of cosmic evil, lies, etc., those who worship will him/it reap what they sow, and it ain't peace and joy.

As for Halloween, the only evil about it is what is injected into it by diptards, like "the fundamentalist retards... in the driver's seat of the Jesus Express." I guarantee we never gave the devil half a thought when we went trick-or-treating... until the diptard baptists in our town started bringing it up an ruining our harmless fun.

Satan is just a boogeyman used to scare Christians into compliance. I think the idea of some red-skinned giant with horns sitting on a throne in some cave with smoke billowing about is just cartoonish nonsense. I also think one of the worst aspects of Christianity is the idea that a good moral and ethical person who treats his fellow man with kindness and respect is damned to hell simply because he didn't accept Jesus as his lord and savior. I think that's yet another way for churches to increase their membership.

I do believe in hell, but not a literal hell. I think when someone truly evil dies, they're tormented by their deeds/behavior. It's more of an inner hell than some fiery place. I think the hereafter is a direct reflection on how we lived our lives on Earth.

But you'll never ever convince me that God damns non-Christians to hell.

[Blue]

Satan is just a boogeyman used to scare Christians into compliance. I think the idea of some red-skinned giant with horns sitting on a throne in some cave with smoke billowing about is just cartoonish nonsense. I also think one of the worst aspects of Christianity is the idea that a good moral and ethical person who treats his fellow man with kindness and respect is damned to hell simply because he didn't accept Jesus as his lord and savior. I think that's yet another way for churches to increase their membership.

I do believe in hell, but not a literal hell. I think when someone truly evil dies, they're tormented by their deeds/behavior. It's more of an inner hell than some fiery place. I think the hereafter is a direct reflection on how we lived our lives on Earth.

But you'll never ever convince me that God damns non-Christians to hell.

Lol. I don't think the scriptures came with pictures.

I go by what the Bible tells me about who God is. I try not to make him into what I think he should be. Mans ways are not gods ways and our thoughts are not his thoughts.

What I know about god from what I've read in the Bible (which i beleive to be divinely inspired so save that) is that he's perfectly holy. For us to be in his precence (sp? dang I cant spell anymore) we must be perfect. hence Jesus Christ and a perfect sacrifice. It also tells me he loves every single one of us and doesn't want anyone to suffer. Even Johnny Mack. ;)

[soonerinkaty]

Speaking of supernatural entities, a good friend of mine told me a story the other day.

Her ex husband collected artifacts. Not the knock off **** either. He went to Mexico for some godforsaken reason and returned with a Mayan bloodletting bowl or something like that. She didn't think anything of it at first, then she started feeling cold spots in the house and smelling a foul odor. Her youngest daughter (five at the time) began refusing to sleep in her bed because, and I quote, "There are dark people with no faces standing at the end of my bed." No **** fellas.

Her other daughters started getting freaked out by random light flickering and doors opening and closing and whatnot. So she called a "White witch" (wtf?) to come diagnose the situation. The witch comes to the house but refuses to come inside because something very evil was inside.

So as a last resort she finds some voodoo bitch in Tecumseh or some **** to get rid of what is causing the hauntings. When the woman showed up she walked straight upstairs, to where my friend's ex had left this bowl. She points and says "Its the bowl, go ahead and touch it." She retorted with a "Hell no". Well she did and the bowl was warm to the touch. Yeah wtf for reals. Anyways the lady got rid of the bowl for her. There is your paranormal story for the day. I believe my friend was telling the truth, fwiw.

[Chuck Bao]

I have to admit that I am fascinated by the ancient pagan gods and belief systems. It's not like I want to worship any of them, but sort of get into the mindset of our very ancient ancestors. Human existence dates back how far? 100,000 or 1 mlllon years? So, the Christian faith has been around for only the last 2,000 years or somewhere between 2% or 0.2% of our existence.

The ancient Hebrew scripture doesn't really date much earlier that 1500 BC, as archeologists can pretty much date the text by the city names used.

Okay, how many of you know that Jerusalem was named after the Ugaritic (Canaanite) god of dusk, Shalem. It literally means "Foundation Of Shalem". The Hebrews coming out of Eygpt didn't even bother to change the name for some reason even though they built the tabernacle and the Holy of Holies and God's residence on Earth in the city.

I also wonder how much of the Christian idea of satan is from Milton's Paradise Lost and not scriptural. How much is from the early Christian church trying to tie in the much more ancient pagan gods as satan worship.

I find it interesting during the Enlightment and Renaissance era that some of the more forward thinkers didn't see it that way. They called Lucifer by his translated name of "Bringer of Light". He was considered, by a select few, to be a Prometheus giving fire to humans and then suffering for it.

I would never think of worshipping any of that. I do have enough books about the subject that would get my Baptist family in a proper tizzy fit.

I don't believe in malevolent spirits and demons. Those allegories still pretty neatly describe some of the personal demons that we all have to face day-by-day.

I don't believe in any of that New Age Wiccan bullcrap that is being pulled on some really gullible kids these days. It is just that - a whole load of bullcrap. I would never, ever consider using a Ouija Board or holding a senance.

I don't really believe in ghosts either. I believe that our memories and feelings do influence our perceptions. There are several times that I swore that I saw my murdered friend in my apartment. In the two years after his death, I also saw him on the street a lot too, so maybe it was all just subconscience and wishing him back.

[HBick]

:D actually, I have several times.

this place, right? http://www.hauntedhouserestaurant.com/history.nxg

haha yes, thanks for picking up on the light heartedness

[Cornfed]

Satan as the bible tells it.

Satan is not in hell, and even in the book of Job he came and spoke with God IN "heaven".

In Christian beliefs (which are mine) Satan was the most beautiful angel created. He was expelled from heaven with 1/3 of the angels for believing himself "as" God. He is jealous of man because we were created with 3 parts, just as God (body,soul,and spirit), and were put above the angels.
In the bible satan is not omnicient nor omnipresent as God is. God promised all the angels eternal life hence why he has not just destroyed him.

Most of the hoaky beliefs that are refferenced to and continually laughed at were initiated by ignorant people and though some had good intentions , they were poorly thought out.
It amazes me the damage that was done by ignorant people over the last 1900 years. People still hold themselves back on thier decisions based on what some stupid preist or group of people did hundreds or even a thousand years ago. If anyone was doing the "devils" work it was these greedy, selfserving idiots.

[GKeeper316]

Fair enough. But you should check yourself before you post something so broadly stupid and offensive to so many folks who post here.

And yes you would get smoked by the fairest theologian. My older brother has a masters on said subject and religion, ALL religions are far more complex than your silly statement.

dude im smarter than 95% of the population of he planet earth (sounds arrogant, but just a statement of statistical fact) and ive spent more time studying people, cultures, belief systems and whatnot to know that all religion does is enslave the masses. all organized religion is, is a control system to keep the masses in line. "do this or you'll displease the abstract ideal we've forced upon you"...

god, the devil, santa claus, the easter bunny, vampires and godzilla are all just constructs of human imagination.

the oldest "profession" on the planet isnt prostitution... pretty much every anthropological scholar who has done any research into this particular field will tell you that the oldest profession on earth is witch-doctor (spiritiual head of a localized populace).

you can believe what the **** ever you want, but as long as logic and reason dictate my thought process, i'll hold to my belief that god is the creation of man, and not the other way around.

[Blue]

Just a few verses that confirm he is real and active in this world for believers.

And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life.”


2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.


Jude 1:6
And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—


Mark 1:21-28
And they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath he entered the synagogue and was teaching. And they were astonished at his teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as the scribes. And immediately there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit. And he cried out, “What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God.” But Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be silent, and come out of him!” ...

Hebrews 2:14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,



1 John 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

[Blue]

dude im smarter than 95% of the population


"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."-Psalms 14-1.

Not according to David. :P ;)

[Cornfed]

dude im smarter than 95% of the population of he planet earth (sounds arrogant, but just a statement of statistical fact) and ive spent more time studying people, cultures, belief systems and whatnot to know that all religion does is enslave the masses. all organized religion is, is a control system to keep the masses in line. "do this or you'll displease the abstract ideal we've forced upon you"...



Key word...religeon.

[GKeeper316]

"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."-Psalms 14-1.

Not according to David. :P ;)

which was put into the bible as directed by a bunch of crusty old men about a hundred years after constantine converted...

if it was recorded by man, especially in the days before scientific methodology had been established, its highly suspect in its accuracy.

[GKeeper316]

Key word...religeon.

faith in something without a dogma to determine where your faith should lead you isnt really faith at all.

[Cornfed]

which was put into the bible as directed by a bunch of crusty old men about a hundred years after constantine converted...

if it was recorded by man, especially in the days before scientific methodology had been established, its highly suspect in its accuracy.

Answered like a "true" thinker.

[Cornfed]

faith in something without a dogma to determine where your faith should lead you isnt really faith at all.

True since dogma is held by religeon an assortment of dogmas would initiate a seperate religeon.

I guess the real problem i have with the "lump" of the statement is the traditions portion of most organized christian religeons.

[soonerinkaty]

Neither one of you will convince the other of your point of view. So, you're wasting your breath. Er, something like that.

[Cornfed]

Neither one of you will convince the other of your point of view. So, you're wasting your breath. Er, something like that.

I have no wish to convince anyone, if you havent noticed 99.9 percent of the people who have posted have their minds made up.
what i have problems with are blanket statements, and I was truly wondering what some people thought.

[Leroy Lizard]

Jews and Christians dont carry the same beliefs on alot of things

I can think of one big one. :D

[SicEmBaylor]

I worship Aqua Buddha.

[GKeeper316]

I worship Aqua Buddha.

is he an Aqua Velva god?

[Cornfed]

is he an Aqua Velva god?

Theres something about an aqua velva god.

[Eielson]

dude im smarter than 95% of the population of he planet earth

http://stromkopf.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/roflcopter-anim.gif

[soonerscuba]

Frankly, I think that 99.99% of the evil in this world is a result of responding to incentive, chemical imbalance and jealousy. I will leave the .001% chance open to the idea of the supernatural play, but I can't say I believe in ghosts, angels, imps, fairies or aliens (at least not the redneck anal probing kind). The mind is a powerful thing, and thousands of years of having every good reason to fear the unknown isn't going to evolve out of the human mind anytime soon.

FWIW, I don't think people who believe in these things are stupid, it's just not my cup of joe.

[Cornfed]

I don't think people who believe in these things are stupid.

I think sometimes they can be.........(over-reative and ignorant as well).

There i saved you from it.

[soonerscuba]

I think sometimes they can be.Sure, I just don't think that simply because you believe in those things you are automatically stupid. If you believe in them, and also think they are guiding the president to raise your taxes, then yes, I will go ahead and think you are stupid.

[Blue]

I think sometimes they can be.........(over-reative and ignorant as well).

There i saved you from it.

What is your definition of a good christian then, Cornfed? I'm interested to hear it.

[SicEmBaylor]

I submit that more misery has plagued this Earth in the name of organized religion than any other force. The Catholic Church, for example, still scares the bejesus out of me (pun intended).

I'm not saying religion is bad, quite the contrary, it provides a moral guide for life. But, I have a really really big problem with organized religion. So much of the faith's doctrine is more about perpetuating the church itself and trying to persecute those who believe otherwise than it is about trying to create a better man.

If you really want to live a Godly life then work on improving YOURSELF. Live the best life that you can. Take care of your family, be a good neighbor, and try to make your community or environment better than you found it. Do those things, and I think you're truly living up to what God intended when he bless you with free-will.

The rest of the crap about having to be saved or baptized is just nonsense. It isn't going to get you any closer to God then an atheist who lives a virtuous life.

Organized religion has made faith so much more difficult and complex than it ought to be. Live a good life -- that's all that can be asked of anyone.

[Cornfed]

What is your definition of a good christian then, Cornfed? I'm interested to hear it.

"good" is very subjective.

There is no man that is "good"

For we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God...
We all like sheep have gone astray...

He who is without sin cast the first stone....

A "good" christian is one that after realizing their sin and asking God to forgive them, turns then from their sins.
It is the RESPONSIBILITY of the christian to then study the word of God (with prayer for understanding) so he is not fooled by false teachings. The majority of christians do not know even 10 percent of what is written in the bible.

[Cornfed]

I submit that more misery has plagued this Earth in the name of organized religion than any other force. The Catholic Church, for example, still scares the bejesus out of me (pun intended).

I'm not saying religion is bad, quite the contrary, it provides a moral guide for life. But, I have a really really big problem with organized religion. So much of the faith's doctrine is more about perpetuating the church itself and trying to persecute those who believe otherwise than it is about trying to create a better man.

If you really want to live a Godly life then work on improving YOURSELF. Live the best life that you can. Take care of your family, be a good neighbor, and try to make your community or environment better than you found it. Do those things, and I think you're truly living up to what God intended when he bless you with free-will.

The rest of the crap about having to be saved or baptized is just nonsense. It isn't going to get you any closer to God then an atheist who lives a virtuous life.

Organized religion has made faith so much more difficult and complex than it ought to be. Live a good life -- that's all that can be asked of anyone.

Did I not believe in Christ I would agree with you here, but , well you know the differences.

[Blue]

If you really want to live a Godly life then work on improving YOURSELF. Live the best life that you can. Take care of your family, be a good neighbor, and try to make your community or environment better than you found it. Do those things, and I think you're truly living up to what God intended when he bless you with free-will.



Couldn't agree more.

[Blue]

The rest of the crap about having to be saved or baptized is just nonsense. It isn't going to get you any closer to God then an atheist who lives a virtuous life.



Couldn't disagree more.

As Christians we are saved by grace. Being the most perfect guy in town is not going to cut it. we all fall short of the glory of God. Thats why we need a savior. None of us is good enough to stand in front of a Holy, Just God. We need to be perfect in his eyes. Thus the Cross. An ultimate act of Love and sacrifice.

As much as you study other things, maybe study the Bible. It would help you seeing a Christians point of view.

[Blue]

"good" is very subjective.

There is no man that is "good"

For we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God...
We all like sheep have gone astray...

He who is without sin cast the first stone....

A "good" christian is one that after realizing their sin and asking God to forgive them, turns then from their sins.
It is the RESPONSIBILITY of the christian to then study the word of God (with prayer for understanding) so he is not fooled by false teachings. The majority of christians do not know even 10 percent of what is written in the bible.

Absolutely.

[AlbqSooner]

Bham - sent you a peem.

[Blue]

Bham - sent you a peem.
Hit ya back, bro.

[Collier11]

lovers

[Blue]

lovers

You better be worried about JLew creepin up on you with schaub and foster. He's about to send you to 1-7. lol.

[Collier11]

gettin close

[stoopified]

I as a Christian I don't think you can believe in God and Jesus without believing in Satan and evil. As for places of evil,I can't think of any outside of Stillwater and Austin. :)

[Eielson]

I think the Indians should be more offended by Halloween than Christians. I saw far more cowboys than demons. What kind of parent lets their kid dress up like a demon?

[GottaHavePride]

What kind of parent lets their kid dress up like a demon?

A parent that has mad costume-making skillz.

[batonrougesooner]

I was just wanting to read more ghost stories...