College coaches: Don't blame us for helmet hits

[Okie35]

College coaches have been watching closely as the NFL has cracked down on dangerous tackles and helmet hits. They've heard some of the league's defensive stars complain that they're just playing the way they've always played.

And they have a reply: Don't blame us.

"I only know how I've taught kids my whole life. I've never told anyone to leave their feet, lead with their head. I just never have. I've never taught anyone to do anything that's illegal, that's not in the rule book. I was never taught that, and I've been playing a long time," said Syracuse coach Doug Marrone, who was a longtime NFL assistant before taking the top job with his alma mater.

College coaches from around the country echoed Marrone's sentiment over the past week. They say players are taught to tackle with their heads up, never to use the crown of the helmet to strike an opponent, and to target an opposing player's midsection.

After a particularly scary spate of violent hits two weeks ago, the NFL imposed heavy fines on several players, including Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker James Harrison, and said it would start suspending players who inflict violent and illegal helmet hits.

Harrison's hit did not draw a penalty flag during the game.

"How can I continue to play this game the way that I've been taught to play this game since I was 10 years old?" Harrison said on Sirius/XM radio last week. "And now you're telling me that everything that they've taught me from that time on, for the last 20-plus years, is not the way you're supposed to play the game any more? If that's the case, I can't play by those rules. You're handicapping me."

Baltimore Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis said the hit Harrison made on Cleveland receiver Mohamed Massaquoi that drew a $75,000 fine is the type of contact "you're getting praised for" in defensive meetings.

The NCAA addressed the dangers of players hitting with their helmets back in 2005, when it changed the rules against spearing to remove any reference to intent. The old rule penalized players who intentionally led with their helmets, forcing officials to judge whether a dangerous, high-speed hit was deliberate. The rule change made all helmet hits penalties.

The change was made to protect the player doing the hitting as much as the player being hit. An unfortunate reminder of that came two weeks ago when Rutgers player Eric LeGrand suffered a spinal cord injury and was paralyzed making a tackle on special teams.

And just like the NFL, conferences are doling out suspensions for dangerous hits to the head.

Just this week, the Southeastern Conference suspended Mississippi State linebacker Chris Hughes one game for a flagrant, high hit away from the play on what was determined to be a defenseless UAB receiver during Saturday's game.

Earlier this season, South Carolina linebacker Rodney Paulk was suspended half a game for a helmet-to-helmet hit against Kentucky's Randall Cobb.

The Big 12 on Wednesday suspended Nebraska linebacker Eric Martin for the 14th-ranked Cornhuskers' game Saturday against No. 7 Missouri for "targeting an opponent with the crown of his helmet" in the Oklahoma State game.

The FCS Big Sky conference also suspended an Eastern Washington player for a high hit.

The NCAA gives coaches access to instructional videos on how to properly tackle. Coaches say they work on tackling fundamentals in practice, but by the time a player gets to college he's already made hundreds of tackles.

Minnesota safety Kyle Theret said he learned how to tackle in high school, when he didn't need to lay out an opponent to get him down.

"You learn the right way because you're not going up against as many big guys so you can learn the right way. Now you're going up against a lot bigger guys, so you've got to try to hit them as hard as you can so a lot of people are leading with the head," he said. "A lot of times it's just natural movement. If the running back puts his head down, you don't put your head down or you're going to get run over."

Virginia coach Mike London said he and his staff will point out improper tackling techniques when they are watching film with players.

"It's an ongoing opportunity to teach, to educate them, because heaven forbid something happens," he said. "It's happened nationally to a couple people already. You just don't want to be in that situation. We're always constantly harping on doing the right thing and keeping your head up, wrapping with your arm, more chest to chest with arms."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101029/ap_on_sp_co_ne/fbc_helmet_hits_college

[StoopTroup]

We used to call it "Spearing". Now they seem to be making a big deal likes it's something new. I just asked a ? in the Eric Martin thread about this.

[StoopTroup]

Here's my entry in the Eric Martin thread...


We now have another Referee Penalty added to the Sport we all love to argue about. Thing is the penalty on the field now includes a possible penalty that might keep a player out for as long as the guy he hurt stays out.

I think taking this seriously is a good thing but does it seem like it's being enforced on the field without much pre-season talk about Game Suspensions also being enforced? Just saying...are the Refs and the Media now making a big deal out of it as it happens or were the players informed well enough that they should have understood the consequences? Was the Pre-Season talk enough to give everyone a wake up call?

[Okie35]

Here's my entry in the Eric Martin thread...

I remember watching the Whorns vs. Rice and the commentators said the refs did talk about it. They didn't mention any coaches or leagues that did. I'm sure it was just officials around the country meeting up in the preseason. Also, I don't really think they actually enforce it a suspension unless the player is actually injured like you said. Gideon hit someone helmet to helmet and they only called "targeting" because the opposing player was fine. I don't think the players were well informed enough though. Its a weird situation to get thrown into. Now that its a big issue, they will call every little thing even if the player tries to lead w/ their shoulder and barely gets helmet. If the other player gets hurt just expect a suspension.

[badger]

The hit that Defensive-Q delivered last Saturday that forced the fumble (later ruled incomplete pass) and caused him to leave the game was a helmet hit. Hopefully it will serve as a reminder to our players to use their head by NOT using their head :(

[oumartin]

by 2020 it will be nothing more than flag football.

[OU_Sooners75]

"You learn the right way because you're not going up against as many big guys so you can learn the right way. Now you're going up against a lot bigger guys, so you've got to try to hit them as hard as you can so a lot of people are leading with the head," he said. "A lot of times it's just natural movement. If the running back puts his head down, you don't put your head down or you're going to get run over."


This is where I have a question.

Are they going to start calling it on the RBs that lower their head to run over a defender? It is leading with the head.

Why give the advantage back to the offensive player?

[OU_Sooners75]

by 2020 it will be nothing more than flag football.


What? Really?

So taking out the leading with the crown of the head (or helmet) is pussifying the sport now?

Really?

You and I have had plenty of good banter back and forth, but have you ever played this sport after high school?

Those types of hits can be very dangerous and are not taught, they are frowned upon by every coaching staff I have ever been around!

[badger]

Why give the advantage back to the offensive player?

Because high-scoring games is the ultimate goal of any pro league, amirite?

[OU_Sooners75]

Because high-scoring games is the ultimate goal of any pro league, amirite?

Well, I am talking about the sport in general, not just the NFL.

Scoring points is what the goal is, but at the same time, it is also a goal to stop the opposition from scoring points. :P

[cmoneyou]

This is where I have a question.

Are they going to start calling it on the RBs that lower their head to run over a defender? It is leading with the head.

Why give the advantage back to the offensive player?

I agree with this point. Along those lines, why are RBs allowed to stiff arm the heads of tacklers? O and D linemen are not allowed to do this, but those rules offset each other fairly. It may not be that big of a deal, but it seems like a few guys grab the facemask of the defender.

[oumartin]

I'm not arguing the intentional helmet to helmet hits. those must stop. It's the the general direction of the sport.

You can't hit a defenseless receiver, you can't sneeze on the qb, you can't celebrate a touchdown,

[OU_Sooners75]

I agree with this point. Along those lines, why are RBs allowed to stiff arm the heads of tacklers? O and D linemen are not allowed to do this, but those rules offset each other fairly. It may not be that big of a deal, but it seems like a few guys grab the facemask of the defender.


A facemask will be called on a stiff arm if the RB (or runner) grabs the fask mask and holds onto it. I have actually seen it called a few times.

[OU_Sooners75]

I'm not arguing the intentional helmet to helmet hits. those must stop. It's the the general direction of the sport.

You can't hit a defenseless receiver, you can't sneeze on the qb, you can't celebrate a touchdown,


You can hit a defenseless receiver...just not while leading with the helmet.

The QB rules are stupid...but I can see them. Why dont we go out to the yard, you throw the ball to Dean, and I will rush you from your blindside and tackle you hard about 2 or 3 seconds after you release the ball.

It can be very dangerous, because the QB is not expecting the hit, and their body is way to relaxed and not braced for the hit.

Oh and the celebration...you can celebrate a TD, just not by throwing the ball in the air or excessively. Celebrate while leaving the field of play and the penalty will never be called!

[StoopTroup]

Receivers aren't completely defenseless. A good QB should know not to send a ball into a dangerous situation too. Getting one of your Teammates killed over a 1st down isn't worth it.

[oumartin]

you cannot hit a defenseless receiver whether or not you lead with your helmet.

[OU_Sooners75]

you cannot hit a defenseless receiver whether or not you lead with your helmet.


You do realize you cannot hit any player away from the area of the play, unless you are already engaged with him right?

[cmoneyou]

A facemask will be called on a stiff arm if the RB (or runner) grabs the fask mask and holds onto it. I have actually seen it called a few times.

I know they call it, but it seems like it is a lot easier to get a defensive facemask called than offensive because the offensive player is usually pushing instead of pulling. It doesn't really come up that much. I probably shouldn't have even brought it up. The really important thing is the need to reduce head and neck injuries.

[cmoneyou]

You can hit a defenseless receiver...just not while leading with the helmet.

The QB rules are stupid...but I can see them. Why dont we go out to the yard, you throw the ball to Dean, and I will rush you from your blindside and tackle you hard about 2 or 3 seconds after you release the ball.

It can be very dangerous, because the QB is not expecting the hit, and their body is way to relaxed and not braced for the hit.

Oh and the celebration...you can celebrate a TD, just not by throwing the ball in the air or excessively. Celebrate while leaving the field of play and the penalty will never be called!

If the officials would call the other rules as tightly as they have called the qb protection rules, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

[oumartin]

You do realize you cannot hit any player away from the area of the play, unless you are already engaged with him right?



if there is a non catchable ball thrown toward a reciever who happens to leave his feet to go up for it you cannot lower your shoulder and hit him without being at risk for "hitting a defenseless receiver"

[King Barry's Back]

I remember watching the Whorns vs. Rice and the commentators said the refs did talk about it. They didn't mention any coaches or leagues that did. I'm sure it was just officials around the country meeting up in the preseason. Also, I don't really think they actually enforce it a suspension unless the player is actually injured like you said. Gideon hit someone helmet to helmet and they only called "targeting" because the opposing player was fine. I don't think the players were well informed enough though. Its a weird situation to get thrown into. Now that its a big issue, they will call every little thing even if the player tries to lead w/ their shoulder and barely gets helmet. If the other player gets hurt just expect a suspension.

What do the players need to hear? "If you don't use your helmet as a weapon, you don't get in any trouble." What else do they need to be "well informed enough"?

[Leroy Lizard]

What do the players need to hear? "If you don't use your helmet as a weapon, you don't get in any trouble." What else do they need to be "well informed enough"?

It isn't that easy. Someone with the intellect of Vince Young might take a full week just to get through the lesson on facemasking.

[King Barry's Back]

Oh and the celebration...you can celebrate a TD, just not by throwing the ball in the air or excessively. Celebrate while leaving the field of play and the penalty will never be called!

Plenty of us see those premeditated, choreographed (Sp?) and self-promotional "celebrations" as ridiculous charades that detract from the game experience and waste time.

[King Barry's Back]

It isn't that easy. Someone with the intellect of Vince Young might take a full week just to get through the lesson on facemasking.

Poor Vince. He's so helpless, I sometimes feel dirty for making fun of him.

[Scott D]

Receivers aren't completely defenseless. A good QB should know not to send a ball into a dangerous situation too. Getting one of your Teammates killed over a 1st down isn't worth it.

This should be emphasized. It's not that the receivers are doing anything wrong, it's that as a whole quarterbacking is just not very good.

[Okie35]

This is where I have a question.

Are they going to start calling it on the RBs that lower their head to run over a defender? It is leading with the head.

Why give the advantage back to the offensive player?

You know the advantage is always for the offense. Especially in pass interference situations.

[Okie35]

You do realize you cannot hit any player away from the area of the play, unless you are already engaged with him right?

Its like cut blocks they're only illegal if the defender is engaged w/ more than 1 offensive player.

[ashley]

I agree with this point. Along those lines, why are RBs allowed to stiff arm the heads of tacklers? O and D linemen are not allowed to do this, but those rules offset each other fairly. It may not be that big of a deal, but it seems like a few guys grab the facemask of the defender.

No, the rule is only to protect a defenseless player. this is almost always a receiver.

[ashley]

you cannot hit a defenseless receiver whether or not you lead with your helmet.

Yes you can.

[ashley]

Receivers aren't completely defenseless. A good QB should know not to send a ball into a dangerous situation too. Getting one of your Teammates killed over a 1st down isn't worth it.

The QB is not to be blamed. It is the defender that leads with the head that is at fault.

[Scott D]

The QB is not to be blamed. It is the defender that leads with the head that is at fault.

you have got to be effing kidding me. You're operating under the premise that every contact that is helmet to helmet was intended to be helmet to helmet.

if I the QB throw the ball too far ahead of you, too high, too low, too far behind. You the WR are going to get clobbered whether it's helmet to helmet or not. As the QB it's my responsibility to put you the WR in the best position to make the play at the least amount of excessive risk to you.

if I throw a pass that has you leaning forward to get it and you get hit helmet on helmet by a defender who was aiming their shoulder at your numbers, how am I not to blame for putting you in a risky position?

[ashley]

you have got to be effing kidding me. You're operating under the premise that every contact that is helmet to helmet was intended to be helmet to helmet.

if I the QB throw the ball too far ahead of you, too high, too low, too far behind. You the WR are going to get clobbered whether it's helmet to helmet or not. As the QB it's my responsibility to put you the WR in the best position to make the play at the least amount of excessive risk to you.

if I throw a pass that has you leaning forward to get it and you get hit helmet on helmet by a defender who was aiming their shoulder at your numbers, how am I not to blame for putting you in a risky position?

Not at all, I think most are accidents. But you still have to throw the ball to complete it. Head to head incidents seldom happen if you look at the stats.

[Scott D]

Why doesn't the QB have any fault in that situation? DeSean Jackson of the Eagles is out specifically because of a bad throw by Kevin Kolb. But yet Kolb takes no blame for putting Jackson into that situation.

What about the running back who lowers his head and shoulder because of incoming contact and ends up with helmet to helmet with the defender who was aiming at his chest/midsection to make the tackle.

[ashley]

Why doesn't the QB have any fault in that situation? DeSean Jackson of the Eagles is out specifically because of a bad throw by Kevin Kolb. But yet Kolb takes no blame for putting Jackson into that situation.

What about the running back who lowers his head and shoulder because of incoming contact and ends up with helmet to helmet with the defender who was aiming at his chest/midsection to make the tackle.

The rule does not apply to running backs with the ball.
How in the hell is a QB going to forecast what is going to happen seconds later?

[Scott D]

Perhaps by being more accurate.

[OU_Sooners75]

if there is a non catchable ball thrown toward a reciever who happens to leave his feet to go up for it you cannot lower your shoulder and hit him without being at risk for "hitting a defenseless receiver"


Yes, they would and should throw that flag. But that is also in the area of the play and it most likely wont be called if the ball arrives before the hit.

[OU_Sooners75]

Plenty of us see those premeditated, choreographed (Sp?) and self-promotional "celebrations" as ridiculous charades that detract from the game experience and waste time.


I agree. However, there is a difference to the excessive celebration penalty and a celebration for a TD.

The refs usually get it right, but there have been times when they have not.