Which do you perfer?

[OU_Sooners75]

A 6.0 yard average per carry or a 4.4 yard average per carry?

Look I admire and love Murray like you and the next guy, but he is not getting it done by himself.

I would like to see both Murray and Finch on the field at the same time more often.

I would also like to see Kevin Wilson stop pulling or doing what is working!

[Collier11]

4.4 if the 6.0 doesnt know the offense

[sooner_born_1960]

In the spirit of picking an option not offered, I prefer 7.2 yards per carry.

[OU_Sooners75]

4.4 if the 6.0 doesnt know the offense


I want them both. But I also want the hot hand.

I also realize that finch wouldnt have a 6.0 yard average if he had played all season.

But like I said, we need both of them. And we need a coach that will not be scared to go with the younger one if he is doing better.

[jumperstop]

4.4 if the 6.0 doesnt know the offense

Whether or not he knew the offense the other night he was still running all over them. I just don't know why we strayed from the combo of having them both on the field, seemed to be working great.

[soonersublime]

I think there is a lot more to it then yards per carry. Although I am very unhappy w/ Kevin Wilson and his play calling abilities and decision making at times. I do however feel he needs to find a way to get Finch the ball more often. He is way better suited for the type of offense KW continues to want to run then DeMarco. I would bet we will start seeing Finch in at the slot a lot and get more touches from their. They can move him into the backfield or motion him in for handoffs and really spread defenses out. If Finch isn't hurt at the beginning of the season I don't think we lose against Missouri. He has to get more comfortable in the offense but we will be a much better team when he is getting the ball 15-20 times per game.

[OU_Sooners75]

Collier, I am curious though.

What makes you think he doesn't know the offense?

They use the same hole numbers as they do with any type of offense. He obviously knows enough where the coaches are comfortable in putting him in the game.

So I don't buy your statement. Murray is a senior and a damn good Sooner. But he is slow in hitting the holes.

Finch was also punishing defenders, and that is what we need out of our backs.

[Collier11]

Stoops said so in the post game press conference, they asked him why Finch didnt play more and Stoops flat out said that he didnt know enough of the offense

[OU_Sooners75]

He doesnt know enough of the offense. So you switch to calling plays that aren't working vs. what are?

He obviously knows enough of the offense to see the field...if they are not comfortable in him knowin enough of the offense....well, I will just say it was a bad coaching move when they put him in against Iowa State and blew his chance of saving a year of eligibility.

Why would you even put someone in the game if they did not know the offense, just a few play? So you can tell the defense what you are doing with him in the game?

I'm sorry, but if this is 100% honesty from Stoops, then it was a very bad coaching decision IMO.

[aero]

While Murray's yards per run may be lower, at this point he gives the offense more options. He's a great pass option out of the backfield. Obviously he can line up as a wide out. I don't remember seeing Finch catch a pass. He may be quite good at it, just don't recall seeing that. If he's strictly runner and see's more play time, that average most likely wont stay up there that high.

[Collier11]

Cmon 75, you know how it goes. If there are only certain packages that he is familiar with, the D will be able to tell precisely what is being called if he is in the game for a prolonged period of time. It limits the type of passing game we can use as well im sure cus Stoops probably doesnt trust him in pass protection

[TUSooner]

Are we taking a vote and sending Bob a petition? Cool. Let's add a provision that says, "Don't go for 2 when you score a late touchdown that brings us within 9 points." :D

[IamJacksScreenName]

Finch caught a couple passes out of the backfield against Mizzou if i'm not mistaken. i don't see the problem with saying that Roy Finch is the best running back on the team.. it's not a knock on Demarco and what he's done over his career..

[OU_Sooners75]

Cmon 75, you know how it goes. If there are only certain packages that he is familiar with, the D will be able to tell precisely what is being called if he is in the game for a prolonged period of time. It limits the type of passing game we can use as well im sure cus Stoops probably doesnt trust him in pass protection


I know exactly how it goes. And it makes no sense to me. Why would you blow a chance for a kid to retain a full year of eligibility for just a few play packages that you are comfortable with?

It doesnt matter if they know what is about to happen if you execute.

Maybe I am not as knowledgeable as I want to think I am, but it looked like they were running the same plays with him in the game as they were with him out of the game.

[OU_Sooners75]

Are we taking a vote and sending Bob a petition? Cool. Let's add a provision that says, "Don't go for 2 when you score a late touchdown that brings us within 9 points." :D


Like he would listen to any of us drunk old bastages anyway!:O

[OU_Sooners75]

BTW collier...did you see Murray's pass blocking against Missouri?:eek:

[OU_Sooners75]

While Murray's yards per run may be lower, at this point he gives the offense more options. He's a great pass option out of the backfield. Obviously he can line up as a wide out. I don't remember seeing Finch catch a pass. He may be quite good at it, just don't recall seeing that. If he's strictly runner and see's more play time, that average most likely wont stay up there that high.


If you dont remember it, check out the boxscore.

He had 2 catches against missouri.

[...sooner]

I know exactly how it goes. And it makes no sense to me. Why would you blow a chance for a kid to retain a full year of eligibility for just a few play packages that you are comfortable with?

It doesnt matter if they know what is about to happen if you execute.

Maybe I am not as knowledgeable as I want to think I am, but it looked like they were running the same plays with him in the game as they were with him out of the game.

-this.

[TUSooner]

Like he would listen to any of us drunk old bastages anyway!:O

I thought that was the reason for this board's existence, to HELP Bob do the right thing! I'm pretty sure he reads all our posts.

[Scott D]

I perfer a non-flaky Marcus Dupree over both of them ;)

[Collier11]

I know exactly how it goes. And it makes no sense to me. Why would you blow a chance for a kid to retain a full year of eligibility for just a few play packages that you are comfortable with?

It doesnt matter if they know what is about to happen if you execute.

Maybe I am not as knowledgeable as I want to think I am, but it looked like they were running the same plays with him in the game as they were with him out of the game.

Because he gives us a chance to be a better team, thats why. He will learn as he goes on and will get more trust from the coaches. Hell, he got almost 30 touches the last two games as a True Fresh

[OU_Sooners75]

I thought that was the reason for this board's existence, to HELP Bob do the right thing! I'm pretty sure he reads all our posts.


If he does, then BV and KW wouldnt be on our coaching staff. :texan:

[delhalew]

I vote Finch gets all of the carries slotted for Madu.

[OU_Sooners75]

Because he gives us a chance to be a better team, thats why. He will learn as he goes on and will get more trust from the coaches. Hell, he got almost 30 touches the last two games as a True Fresh


Exactly...but like I said. he was unavailable for the first half of the season. IMO he is the best back we have. But why not just sit him the rest of the season and allow him to keep that year of eligibility?

That is my point. He has had what, a total of 3 weeks of practice and he is already the best back on the team?

[Collier11]

just by natural talent and instincts, just wait til he gets more of a grasp of the schemes, he will be a beast

[Cornfed]

FTW !!!! I think it's great to have such a good back to spell Demarco with, and put a fire under his tail.

[BoulderSooner79]

I thought this thread would be about snails and oysters.

[misplacedsooner]

i dunno about putting them in the same backfield all the time....once in a while ok but i like having millard on the field all the time, he brings alot. i also like having 85 on the field. demarco did good filling in for him but he aint 85.
gee, maybe we can put a bone package in with millard, murray and finch but it might be hard to see landry run an option.

[OU_Sooners75]

just by natural talent and instincts, just wait til he gets more of a grasp of the schemes, he will be a beast

yeah I know.

But you havent answered my question.

I know he makes us better. I know he doesnt know the entire playbook or is comfortable with it. But why waste a half a season of eligibility when you are doing good without him?

And when he is in and doing good, why shy away from it?

He may be limited, but how many plays does he really know? Obviously it is enough to mix it up and allow him to be on the field with Murray.

[OU_Sooners75]

i dunno about putting them in the same backfield all the time....once in a while ok but i like having millard on the field all the time, he brings alot. i also like having 85 on the field. demarco did good filling in for him but he aint 85.
gee, maybe we can put a bone package in with millard, murray and finch but it might be hard to see landry run an option.


Well think of it this way.

QB Jones (god bless this kid)
FB/TE Millard
RB/Slot Murray
RB/Slot Finch
WR Broyles
WR Stills


then of course you would have the OL.

We want out best players on the field, something that Stoops preaches, well, there ya have it!

[soonercastor]

we didn't really stray away from him; we had the ball for 2 mins + in the fourth quarter and I recall DM getting the ball ONCE (or twice, if you include that circus they were doing at the end). I'm sure if we had the ball more he would have gotten a few carries

As for the formation with DM on the slot, it was an improvisation because Broyles was out; sure it worked but you don't wanna completely change your gameplan because that was working. I'm sure we will see some of that in the future when they run it a lot in practice.

[Collier11]

yeah I know.

But you havent answered my question.

I know he makes us better. I know he doesnt know the entire playbook or is comfortable with it. But why waste a half a season of eligibility when you are doing good without him?

Well its all speculation, youd have to ask Coach Stoops that. My guess is because he felt having Finch on the field even only for 7 games gave us a better shot at a conf title and bcs game. Keep in mind, he will get 7 and maybe 8 games, not like we are putting him in with 3 games left

And when he is in and doing good, why shy away from it?

You noticed last game he got stuffed a few times towards the end of his 2nd possession, maybe Mizzou had figured out his package? I thought we shoulda went back to it in the 4th qt with him in and Murray in the slot

He may be limited, but how many plays does he really know? Obviously it is enough to mix it up and allow him to be on the field with Murray.

He probably knows one or two packages worth of plays, wouldnt you guess?

[misplacedsooner]

i believe if we already had a loss or two that he would of redshirted. seems this was a move to put us over the top that maybe backfired a bit but as bob says...it is what it is now.

[OU_Sooners75]

He probably knows one or two packages worth of plays, wouldnt you guess?

I would say more like 2 or 3.

But regardless, that is a KW downfall. Once a team stops a play once or even twice he never goes back to it.

If you are running it too much, yeah, the defense will overload it and stop it (unless your OU's defense vs. Missouri, jet sweep anyone?).

But if you are only doing that play sparingly, it works 2 of 3 times, why abandon it?

[Sooner_Tuf]

If you watched the game and were sober you could see we run about two or three basic plays with Finch. He is a great talent and was gashing them until they adjusted.

Missouri knows most of the time he is going to outrun them to the corner so they camped out there. I would have to look at the play by play but I think his last two plays went for one yard combined.

He caught a pass for one yard and was run out for no gain. I think that is probably why you didn't see much of him after that. But really who knows but the staff? Maybe his ankle was bothering him, maybe whatever.

They didn't quit using him because it was working and we were going to win if he stayed in there.

If they can teach our O-Line to run block I think will be a Heisman Contender.

[OU_Sooners75]

If you watched the game and were sober you could see we run about two or three basic plays with Finch. He is a great talent and was gashing them until they adjusted.

Missouri knows most of the time he is going to outrun them to the corner so they camped out there. I would have to look at the play by play but I think his last two plays went for one yard combined.

He caught a pass for one yard and was run out for no gain. I think that is probably why you didn't see much of him after that. But really who knows but the staff? Maybe his ankle was bothering him, maybe whatever.

They didn't quit using him because it was working and we were going to win if he stayed in there.

If they can teach our O-Line to run block I think will be a Heisman Contender.

Actually 2 yards...but that is not a bad assessment. But you cannot judge how well a kid is or what he knows by his last 2 rushes.

[Sooner_Tuf]

Add in the fact that we had the ball for something like a 1:16 in the fourth quarter so it is not like he had much opportunity in the ten or twelve plays we ran.

[C&CDean]

He doesnt know enough of the offense. So you switch to calling plays that aren't working vs. what are?

He obviously knows enough of the offense to see the field...if they are not comfortable in him knowin enough of the offense....well, I will just say it was a bad coaching move when they put him in against Iowa State and blew his chance of saving a year of eligibility.

Why would you even put someone in the game if they did not know the offense, just a few play? So you can tell the defense what you are doing with him in the game?

I'm sorry, but if this is 100% honesty from Stoops, then it was a very bad coaching decision IMO.

This is why you're swilling beer with losers like me on Saturdays and not coaching a successful D-1 football team ya big galoot.

It ain't ****ing Pop Warner out there. It ain't Gotebo High vs. Bowlegs. The defenses are smart enough to start keying if they keep seeing the same packages. Finch either ain't been around long enough, or ain't smart enough to know them all yet.

[tulsaoilerfan]

I know exactly how it goes. And it makes no sense to me. Why would you blow a chance for a kid to retain a full year of eligibility for just a few play packages that you are comfortable with?

It doesnt matter if they know what is about to happen if you execute.

Maybe I am not as knowledgeable as I want to think I am, but it looked like they were running the same plays with him in the game as they were with him out of the game.

Well hell we only run like 6 different plays anyway don't we?:D

[Dwight]

I don't want Finch to get "fatigued". Obviously, if he gets more carries, his YPC will go down. With that said, I think he should get slightly more carries per game.

The way Finch is used now, he goes in for a couple plays and gains a lot of yards. That's awesome, but if he gets significantly more carries, he'll start to lose his explosiveness a little bit. 10-12 carries per game seems right to me.

[East Coast Bias]

I say we teach Finch the playbook this week. Hehehe

[MiccoMacey]

I know he makes us better. I know he doesnt know the entire playbook or is comfortable with it. But why waste a half a season of eligibility when you are doing good without him?

Coaches routinely use freshmen for just a few plays a year, to get them some game experience and get ready for the following year when it's believed they may crack the starting lineup. Happens all the time. Not sure why the heartburn with this one kid.

And for the record, I'm with you in that he seemed to bring some excitement into the game everytime he came in. I liked his speed and elusiveness.

Doesn't happen often, but I am very giddy to see what he can bring next year and beyond (last time I said that was Sam Bradford's freshman year).

[TXBOOMER]

Finch has the talent to leave after three years regardless if he would have been redshirted or not. Get all you can out of him. Dude looks special to me.

[unbiasedtruth]

finch n at RB, Murray and Broyes slot backs. Then either Stills and a TE or Stills and another WR that gains seperation.....

I know Murray lined up at slot when Broyles tweaked his ankle in the 1st half and was out for a series. DeMarco had 2 maybe 3 catches while playng slot

[oudavid1]

I was wondering with this would come up, Finch looks good and has things to learn. Murray never has been the same since getting hurt, he still plays well.

[JRAM]

Someone tell 75 how to spell PREFER.

[stoopified]

4.4 if the 6.0 doesnt know the offense
Yup.In addition lets see what Finch 's average is after 150 carries.He has the POTENTIAL to beone of OU's great RBs BUT he ain't there yet.

[Okie35]

Put Murray at wideout and Finch in the backfield more like Sat. night. That was working and i can imagine it was scary while it lasted.


I was wondering with this would come up, Finch looks good and has things to learn. Murray never has been the same since getting hurt, he still plays well.


He's the same to me he just runs more straight up instead of being shifty. Now he engages the hits. He runs more north and south.

[sooneron]

Finch has the talent to leave after three years regardless if he would have been redshirted or not. Get all you can out of him. Dude looks special to me.

THIS ^

[Okie35]

THIS ^

I think he'll say all 4. He's a smaller back they usually have a lot to prove no matter how good they are.

[oudavid1]

Put Murray at wideout and Finch in the backfield more like Sat. night. That was working and i can imagine it was scary while it lasted.




He's the same to me he just runs more straight up instead of being shifty. Now he engages the hits. He runs more north and south.

Thats what i meant, he does look different. I feel that Finch is ultimately better right now but that could also be because opposing coaches dont have solid film on the guy either. Murray has changed, and he is still darn good, but just not were i want him to be. I say that because he kinda cost us big when he fell down with an open lane to the endzone and then LJ threw a pick on the next play. He has to come up clutch. Long way to go though, i feel that we can improve and grow as a team.

[Collier11]

I dont think Stoops cares where YOU want him David

[oudavid1]

I dont think Stoops cares where YOU want him David

ya lost me, what are you talking about?

[Collier11]

ya lost me, what are you talking about?


Murray has changed, and he is still darn good, but just not were i want him to be.

^ This

[oudavid1]

^ This

oh, well i didnt mean on the field, im talking in his career.

[King Barry's Back]

He doesnt know enough of the offense. So you switch to calling plays that aren't working vs. what are?

He obviously knows enough of the offense to see the field...if they are not comfortable in him knowin enough of the offense....well, I will just say it was a bad coaching move when they put him in against Iowa State and blew his chance of saving a year of eligibility.

Why would you even put someone in the game if they did not know the offense, just a few play? So you can tell the defense what you are doing with him in the game?

I'm sorry, but if this is 100% honesty from Stoops, then it was a very bad coaching decision IMO.



Are you serious?

Finch clearly knows how to run with the ball, and he has dramatic quickness.

But there is more to the game. At the basic skill level, there is blocking - very important in a spread offense where passing is the offensive key - running passing routes, catching the ball, selling fakes, holding on to the ball, and much more.

In terms of the overall offense -- my guess is that he is not on the field more because on any given play, he doesn't understand the roles of all the other players, and therefore can't yet fully understand his role within that larger set. He probably has trouble with the timing of plays as they unfold, particularly on the more complex passing plays where multiple recievers are running various routes, the backs are blocking then releasing and going downfield, etc.

Stoops and Kevin Wilson have probably calculated that Finch's explosive speed gives him a game changing impact, and that impact is worth the loss in efficiency from Finch's limited experience.

[King Barry's Back]

Exactly...but like I said. he was unavailable for the first half of the season. IMO he is the best back we have. But why not just sit him the rest of the season and allow him to keep that year of eligibility?

That is my point. He has had what, a total of 3 weeks of practice and he is already the best back on the team?

Is he?

[King Barry's Back]

Well hell we only run like 6 different plays anyway don't we?:D

FULLBACK UP THE MIDDLE


hahah

[BoulderSooner79]

Someone tell 75 how to spell PREFER.

That internet lingo for perforate - as in please put holes in his argument.

[btb916]

I would like to see Millard get more touches. I was really pleased when we had a third or fourth and short and ran the FB dive. Perfect play with that beast in the backfield. But I think as time moves on we'll see him become a threat in more than just short yardage situations.

I'm happy with what Finch is doing so far and disagree that he's the best back on the team. Let's let the kid develop before telling him to shoulder the load that Murray should be handling, and is handling well.

[OU_Sooners75]

This is why you're swilling beer with losers like me on Saturdays and not coaching a successful D-1 football team ya big galoot.

It ain't ****ing Pop Warner out there. It ain't Gotebo High vs. Bowlegs. The defenses are smart enough to start keying if they keep seeing the same packages. Finch either ain't been around long enough, or ain't smart enough to know them all yet.


You're just one big pile of sexy, that is why I want to drink beer with ya! :eek:

[kevpks]

Murray as a wishbone QB with Millard, Finch and Madu/Clay in the backfield.

[texaspokieokie]

I want them both. But I also want the hot hand.

I also realize that finch wouldnt have a 6.0 yard average if he had played all season.

But like I said, we need both of them. And we need a coach that will not be scared to go with the younger one if he is doing better.

average doesn't necessarily have to go down with more reps. look @ greg
pruitt. (9.35).

true frosh can play, look @ hollieway.
6.0 isn't all that high, some average more for entire career.

[85sooners]

:pop:

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

The same people screaming


PLAY FINCH!!

will be the same people saying


WHY WERE THEY PLAYING FINCH!!

as soon as he makes a freshmen mistake.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Are you serious?

Finch clearly knows how to run with the ball, and he has dramatic quickness.

But there is more to the game. At the basic skill level, there is blocking - very important in a spread offense where passing is the offensive key - running passing routes, catching the ball, selling fakes, holding on to the ball, and much more.

In terms of the overall offense -- my guess is that he is not on the field more because on any given play, he doesn't understand the roles of all the other players, and therefore can't yet fully understand his role within that larger set. He probably has trouble with the timing of plays as they unfold, particularly on the more complex passing plays where multiple recievers are running various routes, the backs are blocking then releasing and going downfield, etc.

Stoops and Kevin Wilson have probably calculated that Finch's explosive speed gives him a game changing impact, and that impact is worth the loss in efficiency from Finch's limited experience.

Finch has stated himself that learning the blocking has been tough for him.

[OUthunder]

I prefer wins over losses and a coach that doesn't waive the white flag, down by nine points with almost 3 minutes remaining while his team has the ball.

[oudavid1]

The same people screaming



will be the same people saying



as soon as he makes a freshmen mistake.

We play Millard right? I think he will be ok to go here and there.

[OU_Sooners75]

I prefer wins over losses and a coach that doesn't waive the white flag, down by nine points with almost 3 minutes remaining while his team has the ball.


LOL

I hope this is sarcasm, because the team quite well before Stoops decided to wave that so called white flag.

[CatfishSooner]

i dunno about putting them in the same backfield all the time....once in a while ok but i like having millard on the field all the time, he brings alot. i also like having 85 on the field. demarco did good filling in for him but he aint 85.
gee, maybe we can put a bone package in with millard, murray and finch but it might be hard to see landry run an option.

run the bone w/ allen runnin the option :gary: