OUr defensive trends

[Sooner5030]

I am very appreciative of our coaching staff over the last 11 years and could not be happier with their results. Just an observation below that others may have noticed.

One thing I’ve noticed in the last 3 years is our tendency to blitz less. Probably a deliberate decision made to counter the big plays we used to give up. But with that I think there is a secondary effect that we are starting to see in games.

While blitzing increases the chances of big plays it also decreases the number of plays per drive……either by causing 3rd and 15 or giving up 35 yards. But a defense that has to defend 45 pays regardless can do it averaging 5 plays per possession with 9 drives or 9 plays per possession with 5 drives. Given the same amount of plays the blitzing defense gets less tired as they get more breaks between drives.

Another thing to consider is the amount of time a defensive lineman has to push against the OL. Blitzing will hurry the QB and shave seconds off the time the DLs have to push. Again saving energy per play for the DL.

I just think while we’ve taken away big plays with our change in scheme we’ve also made it more tiring on our D-line and it has caused them to wear down by the end of the game.

[fadada1]

if you give up big plays while not blitzing, i say go full on and blitz every play. either way, you give up big plays - might as well go down swinging with a chance at turnovers or negative yardage plays.

[KantoSooner]

Whatever the reason for it, we sure didn't put much pressure on the QB or generate much in the way of penetration last Saturday.

[jumperstop]

Whatever the reason for it, we sure didn't put much pressure on the QB or generate much in the way of penetration last Saturday.

Seems like we haven't done much of this all year. I really haven't seen the sacks or pressure on the QB I would have liked to see this season.

[Crucifax Autumn]

we sure didn't generate much in the way of penetration last Saturday.

Me either, but I tried.

[NormanPride]

I think this is more a function of personnel rather than scheme.

[tcrb]

Wait....you're saying that we dont give up big plays anymore? You better go back and watch some film.

[Sooner5030]

I think this is more a function of personnel rather than scheme.

Only if personnel is driving our decision to blitz less. I may be on crack but it seems we blitz less.

[jumperstop]

We should always have to blitz to get pressure though...our DL seems to be missing the presence of a McCoy like play maker.

[madillsoonerfan5353]

I think this is more a function of personnel rather than scheme.

This^^^ I love Taylor as much as the rest of you, BUT he is either as healthy as he is going to get or not healthy at all. Same thing with Frank. I would rather put a 100 % healthy player in there that might not know the defense as well but can recover faster. If you watch these two guys run on and off the field they are not right. It might be just me but this is why we can't get after the qb and it's been the case all year. mizzOU is a better team than I expected I'm ready to see what NU can do, I think mizzOU has a pretty good chance to beat them, after the pokes put up 41 on them.

:gary:

[Howzit]

Whatever the reason for it, we sure didn't put much pressure on the QB or generate much in the way of penetration last Saturday.


Me either, but I tried.


I think this is more a function of personnel rather than scheme.

Ouch.

[Pricetag]

Are we not blitzing at all, or are the blitzes taking forever and are they getting picked up? Seems like I saw guys trying to blitz, they just never made it.

[cyclonesooner]

I didn't notice or wasn't paying attention the other night, but did Daniel Noble play any the other night ? Thought he was very impressive earlier in the season.

[NormanPride]

We sent five guys a couple times and maybe more than that once or twice. The vast majority of the time we lined up with four down and the rest back about 3-5 yards. Corners did okay, but Lewis had his worst game as a Sooner by far. The guy's still a good player, but he was guessing on the routes way too much rather than playing solid technique. I remember one play that went for a long gain on third and forever where he juked himself out of position. Basic technique there is to play inside and force the WR outside so the throw is harder. Our LBs were letting their WRs and TEs inside all night and it was driving Venables insane.

To his credit, BV changed things up at the half and ran more zone. I believe we only blitzed in the second half as well. Sadly, it didn't work and the safeties and corners then got abused in zone coverage since the blitzes took too long to execute. You can't really get there in time if the QB starts 7 yards back and then drops back further on the play.

IMO, you either rush 2-3 and drop everyone into coverage, or you blitz heavy and pray they don't burn you. I have to believe our corners were better in man than their slow WRs. Look at what the Browns did yesterday against Brees. Have 9 guys standing around the LOS, and who knows who is coming? One of our issues with our pass rush was that there was nothing to disguise or make the OL guess about. I love our players, but they're not the type of guys that will just beat an OL to the QB. Out of all their snaps, I think it happened twice, and the QB was able to side-step the rush easily since we only sent four all game.

No doubt, we went into this game with a defensive gameplan to not give up too much. We were hoping that our O would outscore theirs. It was a good gameplan, but we gave up a KO for a TD and turned over the ball three times. Without those mistakes we win, and probably comfortably.

Again IMO, but this game rests on the shoulders of Wilson almost exclusively. His play calling was the worst I've seen since he's been here. It wasn't execution as much as it was putting our players in bad positions. RB screens inside the 10? That same TE screen that got picked against USU? Long pass plays on third and short? SIX ****ING RUNS IN THE SECOND HALF? I know Landry played poorly - he does on the road and that's a known quantity. I know Lewis had a bad game - it was killer in the first half and BV responded by sending C. Nelson out to help him in the second. I know the D didn't make plays when we needed them to - they weren't asked to in the game plan. We gave Mizzou three extra possessions and a free TD on the first play of the game. The D played within the game plan and could have won us that game.

[OU_Sooners75]

We need a better push from the front 4 that is for sure.

Maybe it was me being drunk, but I do not recall any time the front four did any stunts or anything. I recall maybe just one blitz and we hurried Gabbert on that play.

If we want to contend for championships, not just big 12 championships, we are going to have to gain a defense like we had in 2000 and 2001.


Statisically speaking, this is by far the worst defense in the Bob Stoops era.

[Crucifax Autumn]

How can they stunt when 2 of them can't even walk?

[OU_Sooners75]

How can they stunt when 2 of them can't even walk?

That is a good question Crux.

:O

[ThinMan]

Besides Adrian Taylor we have only Sophmores and Freshman.

We have to pick our poison.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'd put the Freshmen in since they might be mobile enough to actually require blocking by opponent's line.

[jumperstop]

Besides Adrian Taylor we have only Sophmores and Freshman.

We have to pick our poison.

I would rather have someone who might acctually be able to make a play. It just seems if we even make it through the line, we aren't quick enough to get to the QB anyways.

[OU_Sooners75]

Besides Adrian Taylor we have only Sophmores and Freshman.

We have to pick our poison.

Those are only excuses.

I know we dont have a tommy harris or Gerald McCoy on our DL this year...but to give the excuse of these guys only being sophomores and freshmen is just that, an excuse.

These guys have all had at least 6 games under their belt. They are now veterans. Still learning, yes, but they are veterans no matter which excuse you want to use.

I remember McFarland being the next coming of Tommy Harris. I remember McGee being the next McCoy. Or at least that was the hype this kids were getting. Yet they start playing and they are very average at best.

Here is where coaching comes in.

If we are unable to get a satisfactory push from our dl, then we need to compensate with sending corners, linebackers, safeties to help get that push.

Did we do that against Missouri? No, we jsut allowed a 4 sometimes 5 man rush go gingerly against a OL that was their weakness. We got zero push. Gabbert could have pitched a tent back in the pocket, watched Braveheart, and drank a 12 pack before he had to worry abotu any pressure getting to him last Saturday.

Stoops and Venebles say they are impressed and have confidence in our DBs...well, they damn sure aren't showing it when they continue to rush 4 or 5 and drop 6 or 7 without even blitzing.

Our coaching staff seems to have lost some attitude in them, at least when we are on the road.

OU was good enough to absolutely punish Missouri. 9 out of 10 anywhere OU would win that game. I understand this. I understand Missouri played about as perfect a game as they could, but we played about as **** poor as we have seen from a Stoops led team. And it was not just the players fault!

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Of the Tigers' 486 yards, 384 were in the middle of the field. Running backs ran through huge holes, and receivers too often were wide open.

Quarterback Blaine Gabbert completed 14 of 17 passes over the middle for 231 yards.

Effectively using the jet sweep, Missouri's top running play, the Tigers gained 153 of their 178 rushing yards up the middle



.

[The_Red_Patriot]

Epic fail when you don't blitz while having 3-4 men on the line and they still get 1st downs on 3rd and 15


That happened more than once.

I have been a huge BV supporter over the years but I was very upset with the Mizzou scheme. It was a collective effort with the players and coaches.

Still though....if we don't turn the ball over multiple times in the redzone, it's a totally different game.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

12 plays of 15 or more yards for MU in that game..wow

[OU_Sooners75]

One thing BV needs to improve...and has since he took over as fulltime DC in 2004, Fill the Middle of the damn field!

Every game, we are open in the middle. And when we go against competent offenses they exploit that.

Get away from that Piece of **** defense known as a 4-2-5 and go back to our base 4-3.

Even if that means you leave the extra db in....line up traditionally and play a robber once in a damn while.

Well, play an unbrella zone or a flats zone. At least then we would have at least 2 people responsible for the middle of the field not just one and that one always being ran off thanks to wrs flooding the middle.

[NormanPride]

We knew we were going to be weak in the middle this year. First year, RS Fr MLB and a thin, untalented DT corps. Our safeties are probably covering for young players on the outsides and can't be free to make plays in the middle like they used to.

[Scott D]

clearly one of you needs to start a Fire Jackie Shipp thread, it's safe to say that the DT's have made no progress under him. ;)

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I'm gonna go with a FIRE CASTIGLIONE thread..

[Scott D]

I'm saving that for when he announces the hiring of the Pokes PBP *********.

[NormanPride]

We've had years like this before. But in 2006 when we had Pendleton as our best DT we had Lofton in the middle. BIG difference there. Lofton was money on coverage and was a freak at blowing up runs and causing fumbles. He almost single-handedly beat Mizzou twice. :D

A weak middle to the D is deadly. Our D is bad because of this. Next year it will be better hopefully. We will heal up, guys will have offseason to get better and who knows we may get a recruit that can help.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Right on...Travis Lewis and Tom Wort/Austin Box...not good in coverage...If your not getting da pressures, your LBs have to be able to stick with somebody....

[NormanPride]

Lewis talks big, but isn't great in man obviously. His technique was atrocious and was a big reason we were so horrible on third down.

[TXBOOMER]

We should have played more dime defense and cheated the safeties up and brought the LB damn near every play, mix it up by playing man and bringing a safety or a corner along with the LB every once in a while. Their QB would not have had 8 seconds to throw the ball. Watch Fu**ing Nebraska this week. Pussified game plan. We weren't even disguising it. There is no excuse for it. I'm done defending the schemes we use. Offense is to tricked up.

[OU_Sooners75]

clearly one of you needs to start a Fire Jackie Shipp thread, it's safe to say that the DT's have made no progress under him. ;)


Pointing out what you see is not saying the coach is not doing his job.

Just cause 99% of you here don't have the balls to say to others what you scream at the TV doesn't mean any of us are wanting any coaches gone.

Though I do think some improvements could be made if some coaches go to some coaching clinics.

[OU_Sooners75]

Right on...Travis Lewis and Tom Wort/Austin Box...not good in coverage...If your not getting da pressures, your LBs have to be able to stick with somebody....


You cant expect our LBs or any LB to stick with someone when we are in zone. They are responsible for an area of the field, not a particular receiver.

Now, in man to man, you couldnt expect LBs to stay with wide receivers anyway. They tend to be a bit slower and less agile.

[OU_Sooners75]

We should have played more dime defense and cheated the safeties up and brought the LB damn near every play, mix it up by playing man and bringing a safety or a corner along with the LB every once in a while. Their QB would not have had 8 seconds to throw the ball. Watch Fu**ing Nebraska this week. Pussified game plan. We weren't even disguising it. There is no excuse for it. I'm done defending the schemes we use. Offense is to tricked up.


I dont think I have ever seen a BV defense play any man to man.

[TXBOOMER]

I dont think I have ever seen a BV defense play any man to man.

We brought 7 against Florida in the NC a few times with success. I've never seen it since. Base nickel beats Iowa State, and CO etc. Struggles like a MOFO on the road and against decent teams.

[OU_Sooners75]

We brought 7 against Florida in the NC a few times with success. I've never seen it since. Base nickel beats Iowa State, and CO etc. Struggles like a MOFO on the road and against decent teams.


We still pplayed man zone type coverage though, I do believe. You locked on to the first guy passing in your zone.

Then again, I have been way too drunk since then to remember much of that game.

[Scott D]

Pointing out what you see is not saying the coach is not doing his job.

Just cause 99% of you here don't have the balls to say to others what you scream at the TV doesn't mean any of us are wanting any coaches gone.

Though I do think some improvements could be made if some coaches go to some coaching clinics.

lol, sir that was me mocking the fire vulnerables crowd.

[OU_Sooners75]

lol, sir that was me mocking the fire vulnerables crowd.


Well, I dont see anyone in this thread saying anything like that, and being sincere about it.

[Scott D]

doesn't mean they're not reading it...or that some weren't thinking it.

I'm the guy who jokingly said when will the fire wilson threads start after long was gone and wilson was praised for his Holiday Bowl play calling. I also jokingly asked when the fire heupel threads would start if wilson left and josh took over as OC.

[cvsooner]

Injuries, inexperience and inability...sounds to me like the problems are structural and it doesn't really matter if you change the scheme...or that you'll make major gains.

Injuries make it like you're playing with nine or ten instead of eleven. Inability to execute certain schemes...or out and out mismatches, which is another way of saying it...will get you beat. Inexperience is also a killer.

We did have some turnovers we covered...a couple of fumbles. We also dropped two interceptions...and the two interceptions we had were both killers, seeing as they happened on long drives, deep. The fumble was also deep. Those keep points off the board and damage a team's psyche. We moved the ball very well in the first half but not in the second. Our defense was on the field too much, which means the offense isn't controlling the game, and the D can't get a stop.

Add in our special teams woes (an ill-advised attempt at two points, a missed field goal, a TD off a kickoff return) and we lose. It's really not that complicated. We lost all three phases of the game.

Missouri played better than we did but not THAT well.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

You cant expect our LBs or any LB to stick with someone when we are in zone. They are responsible for an area of the field, not a particular receiver.

Now, in man to man, you couldnt expect LBs to stay with wide receivers anyway. They tend to be a bit slower and less agile.

They are not in zone all the time...and when they are, they can't take responsibility for their area for some reason.When a guy comes into their area, they should be able to keep up..its about angles and closing, not a foot race..

The guy is who is the 5th or 6th receiver on the Mizzou football team..I can expect a LB to be able to make a play on the ball against him.especially the undersized ones OU puts out there ..Its Travis Lewis getting a double move put on him and he is defending grass and air instead of a receiver..Or completely turning the wrong direction...

[OU_Sooners75]

They are not in zone all the time...and when they are, they can't take responsibility for their area for some reason.When a guy comes into their area, they should be able to keep up..its about angles and closing, not a foot race..

The guy is who is the 5th or 6th receiver on the Mizzou football team..I can expect a LB to be able to make a play on the ball against him.especially the undersized ones OU puts out there ..Its Travis Lewis getting a double move put on him and he is defending grass and air instead of a receiver..Or completely turning the wrong direction...


yes I am very aware of that and agree.

And when have our LBs been man to man?

[SoonerNutt]

I don't know that we blitz less than we did before, but I'm pretty sure we never blited a whole lot vs. a spread offense. We always seemed to do a pretty good job of taking away the long stuff, forcing the underneath throws and making tackles.

We didn't do that well Saturday. They routinely hit mid-range shots across the middle, and we should have been taking that away from them. I wish I knew who to blame, but somebody wasn't where they were supposed to be.

To top it off, when we did blitz, it was entirely ineffective. We rarely got through the line with a blitzer before the pass was off (which is why it's dangerous to blitz against the spread)

[Scott D]

think about why Alabama's blitzes work so well when they're not 9 of 11 green in the defense. They're good at having that clog the middle type of DT that will occupy two men consistently. When you have two guys inside that can wreak that kind of havoc it makes blitzing even that much easier. Right now we don't have 1 guy that fills that criteria.

What made Nebraska so sick last year? It wasn't just Suh being such a disrupter, it was the fact that Suh had Crick next to him being nearly as disruptive.

[Spritekid]

The biggest thing I saw on our Defense was the same thing they teach in little league. Make the tackle and quit trying to strip the ball! We were so out of position and missing assignments in this game even with Mike Stoops as the DC wouldn't have helped! The coaches can only do so much they can't play the game for them.

[OU_Sooners75]

The biggest thing I saw on our Defense was the same thing they teach in little league. Make the tackle and quit trying to strip the ball! We were so out of position and missing assignments in this game even with Mike Stoops as the DC wouldn't have helped! The coaches can only do so much they can't play the game for them.


I agree, the coaches can only do so much...but the coaches are the ones that are responsible for making the adjutments thoughout the game. Something that did not happen Saturday...and any adjustments that were made, made things worse it seemed.

But oh well. We are Oklahoma and we are used to this. We are used to losing to a team we shouldnt lose too, have been from the first game!

[stoops the eternal pimp]

yes I am very aware of that and agree.

And when have our LBs been man to man?

They've ran a zone with man underneath more than a few times...If I could access youtube at work, I'd show ya:D

[NormanPride]

yes I am very aware of that and agree.

And when have our LBs been man to man?

We ran man 90% of the time in the first half and about 60% in the second.

[OU_Sooners75]

They've ran a zone with man underneath more than a few times...If I could access youtube at work, I'd show ya:D

Well, we suck at it then....LOL :D

[OU_Sooners75]

We ran man 90% of the time in the first half and about 60% in the second.


And no blitzes?

You telling me that they had 7 eligible receivers? :eek:

[NormanPride]

And no blitzes?

You telling me that they had 7 eligible receivers? :eek:

No, we were rolling safeties over the top to prevent big plays and protect our young corners. It's a basic cover two man under out of a nickle or dime package.

[OU_Sooners75]

No, we were rolling safeties over the top to prevent big plays and protect our young corners. It's a basic cover two man under out of a nickle or dime package.

And how did that work out for us?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

well it looks like to me that they ran some cover 3 saturday night..sometimes out of the cover 3, one side will go zone, the other side will go man...

[NormanPride]

And how did that work out for us?

Sometimes it worked well and sometimes it didn't. Not every play they ran went for 18 yards. Travis got abused in the first half. I'd wager 80% of their yards in the first half came from that TE getting inside him and picking up 10-12. Other that that, there were drives where they'd get a 5 yarder, a 4 yarder, and then get stuffed on a run or miss on a pass. They punted just as much as we did.

[OU_Sooners75]

Sometimes it worked well and sometimes it didn't. Not every play they ran went for 18 yards. Travis got abused in the first half. I'd wager 80% of their yards in the first half came from that TE getting inside him and picking up 10-12. Other that that, there were drives where they'd get a 5 yarder, a 4 yarder, and then get stuffed on a run or miss on a pass. They punted just as much as we did.


Not in the second half, when it mattered most.

They ate us alive in the second half...yes, mainly from mistakes of ours.

[NormanPride]

Not in the second half, when it mattered most.

They ate us alive in the second half...yes, mainly from mistakes of ours.

Yeah, the third quarter was good. We were fresh on the DL from halftime and were keeping our place okay during run plays. They got a field goal off of a couple penalties, we forced them to punt and recovered a fumble. The fourth quarter was a disaster because our three DL that we had were all gassed. They started hitting big on runs and we couldn't get off the field. I was really hoping we'd blitz hard when they put in what's his name, #41, at the HB position. And since we never ran the damn ball our D was on the field the whole game. Almost 2-1.

Again, I blame Wilson for this loss. His absolute refusal to run the ball in the second half is criminal, and he needs to apologize to me personally. Preferably by giving me sideline passes. :D