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View Full Version : What constitutional admendments would you like to see



landrun
10/20/2010, 10:04 AM
There are two ways to change the constitution.

One, have two-thirds of the House and Senate approve an amendment and then it is sent it to the states for a vote. Three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed amendment.

Or, the other method requires a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States. That Convention can then propose as many amendments as they like. Then three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed amendment(s). This way you can completely by-pass the federal government and make a change to the constitution.

I just wonder how likely it would be to do this? It has never been done before. Every amendment to the constitution has been done by the house and senate. So, I thought I'd ask the liberals and conservatives here if there is anything we could agree on that needed to be changed.

A balanced budget amendment?
A law that says congress can't exempt themselves from any law and all laws passed apply to them.
A law that says the salary of the house/senate would be equal to the average salary of all US Citizens
A law that says no representative can take gifts from lobbyist
etc...

Is there any amendment the left and right could agree on together needs to be added to the constitution?

Veritas
10/20/2010, 10:07 AM
Only hot women can buy convertibles. No fatties, uggos, or dudes.
Only hot women can by clothing materials with form-fitting materials, e.g. spandex, lycra.

I shall be the sole arbiter of hotness. Nudity may be required.

The
10/20/2010, 10:10 AM
Repeal the 19th amendment.

Frozen Sooner
10/20/2010, 10:18 AM
There are two ways to change the constitution.

One, have two-thirds of the House and Senate approve an amendment and then it is sent it to the states for a vote. Three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed amendment.

Or, the other method requires a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States. That Convention can then propose as many amendments as they like. Then three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed amendment(s). This way you can completely by-pass the federal government and make a change to the constitution.

I just wonder how likely it would be to do this? It has never been done before. Every amendment to the constitution has been done by the house and senate. So, I thought I'd ask the liberals and conservatives here if there is anything we could agree on that needed to be changed.

A balanced budget amendment?
A law that says congress can't exempt themselves from any law and all laws passed apply to them.
A law that says the salary of the house/senate would be equal to the average salary of all US Citizens
A law that says no representative can take gifts from lobbyist
etc...

Is there any amendment the left and right could agree on together needs to be added to the constitution?

None of these require a constitutional amendment. I'm very skeptical of amending the Constitution when the same thing could be accomplished simply through legislation.

I would propose:
Institution of direct election of the President.
Repeal of the 11th Amendment and a direct abrogation of Sovereign Immunity.
Constitutional overturning of the Slaughterhouse Cases, reinstating 14th Amendment Privileges and Immunities so that they mean something.

Veritas
10/20/2010, 10:20 AM
None of these require a constitutional amendment. I'm very skeptical of amending the Constitution when the same thing could be accomplished simply through legislation.

I would propose:
Institution of direct election of the President.
Repeal of the 11th Amendment and a direct abrogation of Sovereign Immunity.
Constitutional overturning of the Slaughterhouse Cases, reinstating 14th Amendment Privileges and Immunities so that they mean something.
Froze, for what reasons?

1890MilesToNorman
10/20/2010, 10:21 AM
Why don't we start by abiding by the ones we already have?

Tulsa_Fireman
10/20/2010, 10:22 AM
A law that says congress can't exempt themselves from any law and all laws passed apply to them.


None of these require a constitutional amendment.

How? Is that not a power specifically enumerated by the Constitution itself?

Frozen Sooner
10/20/2010, 10:24 AM
1. The Electoral College is antiquated and is based on an understanding of popular democracy which really no longer holds. It also doesn't provide any meaningful brake on large-state dominance of the Presidential elections.
2. Sovereign immunity as a concept is offensive to the notion of a Constitutional republican democracy. The state should not be exempt from the laws, and if the state injures someone, that person should have the right to redress in the courts.
3. A matter of textual elegance. The Court has found a way to do what P&I would do through the Due Process clause, but it leads to annoying and confusing arguments. Reinstating P&I in a meaningful way would come to the same results, but much more elegantly.

Frozen Sooner
10/20/2010, 10:26 AM
How? Is that not a power specifically enumerated by the Constitution itself?

The power to exempt themselves from regulation? All they have to do is stop exempting themselves. That doesn't require a constitutional amendment, it requires sending people to Congress who won't vote to exempt themselves from legislation.

I don't see anything in Article I that enumerates a specific power to exempt Congress from legislation, BTW. It's certainly implied by the text, but there's definitely nothing in the Constitution that REQUIRES Congress to be exempt from legislation other than the Speech and Debate Clause, which provides them with Absolute Immunity when exercising their legislative duties.

hipsterdoofus
10/20/2010, 10:26 AM
Why don't we start by abiding by the ones we already have?

+1

landrun
10/20/2010, 10:33 AM
That doesn't require a constitutional amendment, it requires sending people to Congress who won't vote to exempt themselves from legislation.

I think you're trying to get a hog to slaughter itself. They won't. I don't have as much confidence in human nature as you seem to.

Human experience has shown that power corrupts. If we want to make substantial changes for the good of the masses, the masses will have to do it themselves. That's just what I believe.

Frozen Sooner
10/20/2010, 10:41 AM
Oh, also, you're incorrect that those are the only two ways to pass a constitutional amendment. The 21st was proposed by vote of 3/4ths of the legislatures of the states, then passed by Congress.

jaux
10/20/2010, 10:42 AM
http://usedbooksblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/the-paper-chase-john-houseman.jpg

Frozen Sooner
10/20/2010, 10:43 AM
I think you're trying to get a hog to slaughter itself. They won't. I don't have as much confidence in human nature as you seem to.

Human experience has shown that power corrupts. If we want to make substantial changes for the good of the masses, the masses will have to do it themselves. That's just what I believe.

OK.

I happen to believe that if a Constitutional Convention is called, all hell will break loose. The last time we had one, it went WAY beyond what the states intended. While I think the result was good, I don't think we have the same kind of statesmen running around we did then.

87sooner
10/20/2010, 10:44 AM
i would like to see a constitutional amendment regarding naturalized citizenship...
babies of illegals should not get automatic citizenship....

The
10/20/2010, 10:46 AM
i would like to see a constitutional amendment regarding naturalized citizenship...
babies of illegals should not get automatic citizenship....

Because THAT is the most pressing issues of our day.:bsmf:

Ike
10/20/2010, 10:47 AM
OK.

I happen to believe that if a Constitutional Convention is called, all hell will break loose. The last time we had one, it went WAY beyond what the states intended. While I think the result was good, I don't think we have the same kind of statesmen running around we did then.

Not.
Even.
Close.

Frozen Sooner
10/20/2010, 10:53 AM
i would like to see a constitutional amendment regarding naturalized citizenship...
babies of illegals should not get automatic citizenship....

That's actually the opposite of naturalization. Just as a matter of trying to be helpful so you can communicate better, not trying to call you dumb or anything. Naturalization is when a citizen of one country becomes a citizen of another. A person born inside the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof is a natural born citizen.

87sooner
10/20/2010, 11:40 AM
That's actually the opposite of naturalization. Just as a matter of trying to be helpful so you can communicate better, not trying to call you dumb or anything. Naturalization is when a citizen of one country becomes a citizen of another. A person born inside the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof is a natural born citizen.

yes...that is what i meant...
thanks for the correction...

87sooner
10/20/2010, 11:42 AM
Because THAT is the most pressing issues of our day.:bsmf:

so you support illegals having babies that are automatically us citizens?

The
10/20/2010, 11:47 AM
so you support illegals having babies that are automatically us citizens?

I support people that are born here are citizens. Even mexicans.

87sooner
10/20/2010, 11:51 AM
I support people that are born here are citizens. Even mexicans.



then i think we should reward others for violating federal law...
free health insurance for tax evaders...
a pension plan for gun smugglers....
etc...

tommieharris91
10/20/2010, 11:52 AM
so you support illegals having babies that are automatically us citizens?

Do you have a better way?

The
10/20/2010, 11:55 AM
then i think we should reward others for violating federal law...
free health insurance for tax evaders...
a pension plan for gun smugglers....
etc...


Your argument is related to citizenship for people born in America... how exactly?

Or are you just frothing again about brown people?

87sooner
10/20/2010, 11:56 AM
Do you have a better way?

yeah....don't give them citizenship....
deport them with their criminal mothers...

87sooner
10/20/2010, 11:58 AM
Your argument is related to citizenship for people born in America... how exactly?

Or are you just frothing again about brown people?

my argument is for rewarding violators of federal law....like you support...

i'm frothing about criminals being rewarded...

tommieharris91
10/20/2010, 11:59 AM
yeah....don't give them citizenship....
deport them with their criminal mothers...

Do you have a better way of determining citizenship other than by birthright?

soonerscuba
10/20/2010, 12:19 PM
Do you have a better way of determining citizenship other than by birthright?Political convenience?

The
10/20/2010, 12:36 PM
my argument is for rewarding violators of federal law....like you support...

i'm frothing about criminals being rewarded...

What did babby do?

Of course, it's always best to maximize human suffering in the name of xenophobic racism. As long as you feel OK, we should disregard over 200 years of constitutional law so we can stick it to those mean ole Mexicans that want to better their life.

/and no, you're just frothing. Not at any particular thing, just frothing like a rabid dog.

Scott D
10/20/2010, 12:37 PM
yeah....don't give them citizenship....
deport them with their criminal mothers...

perhaps, just perhaps...if there wasn't so much red tape involved in the process to become a citizen, there wouldn't be so many 'illegals' here from all over the world. The problem itself is a hell of a lot bigger than just the border south of the red river. (and yes, that last part was intentional)

87sooner
10/20/2010, 12:40 PM
What did babby do?

Of course, it's always best to maximize human suffering in the name of xenophobic racism. As long as you feel OK, we should disregard over 200 years of constitutional law so we can stick it to those mean ole Mexicans that want to better their life.

/and no, you're just frothing. Not at any particular thing, just frothing like a rabid dog.

how old is the law that says you can't cross the border into the united states without proper documentation?....and how long have we been ignoring that one?

oh....and i didn't say disregard constitutional law.....i said amend it...

87sooner
10/20/2010, 12:44 PM
perhaps, just perhaps...if there wasn't so much red tape involved in the process to become a citizen, there wouldn't be so many 'illegals' here from all over the world. The problem itself is a hell of a lot bigger than just the border south of the red river. (and yes, that last part was intentional)

i know....those pesky laws are to blame....not the people who are actually breaking them....

do you have any current statistics showing the problem is a "hell of alot bigger" than just mexicans?

The
10/20/2010, 12:47 PM
how old is the law that says you can't cross the border into the united states without proper documentation?....and how long have we been ignoring that one?

It that is germane to natural born citizenry how, exactly?

What did the American citizen born here do incorrectly? Under this assumption, children of felons should not be allowed citizenship either.

Scott D
10/20/2010, 01:15 PM
i know....those pesky laws are to blame....not the people who are actually breaking them....

do you have any current statistics showing the problem is a "hell of alot bigger" than just mexicans?

I never said anything about the laws, I said the "red tape"...the backlog of documentation, and mid level bureaucrats. If you think the illegals being here problem is strictly Mexicans jumping the border you're deluded. There are "illegal" Canadians, Chinese, Russians, Arabs, English, French, Italian, etc... in this country as well. Most of whom are still in illegal status because of the backlog of paperwork and whatnot in the system.

My problem isn't that the laws are wrong or flawed, it's that the entire Immigration and Naturalization process is a toilet that had 4-5 rolls stuffed down it then flushed and is clogged to high hell.

87sooner
10/20/2010, 01:20 PM
It that is germane to natural born citizenry how, exactly?

seriously?
it is estimated 1.5 million illegals reside in texas....
over 60,000 babies are born to these illegals every year...who receive birthright citizenship....
and you want to know how federal immigration laws is germane to this discussion?




What did the American citizen born here do incorrectly? Under this assumption, children of felons should not be allowed citizenship either.

i wasn't aware that felons lost their american citizenship....

ouwasp
10/20/2010, 01:23 PM
I would like to see an amendment that places a term limit on Supreme Court justices.

The judicial branch has virtually no checks on its power. While the above amendment does nothing to address this problem, it would prevent a small group of "untouchable" people from exercising ruling power for decades.

Does anybody else have an idea on how to check the power of the judicial branch?

The
10/20/2010, 01:25 PM
seriously?
it is estimated 1.5 million illegals reside in texas....
over 60,000 babies are born to these illegals every year...who receive birthright citizenship....
and you want to know how federal immigration laws is germane to this discussion?

What's wrong with 60k citizens? (and yes, I am aware that you pulled that number out of thin air) Is it because you don't like them?



i wasn't aware that felons lost their american citizenship....

You are trying to punish the children for the transgressions of their parents. Law says if you are born here, you are a citizen. You want to take that away from a specific ethnic group. That is... well, I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

87sooner
10/20/2010, 01:26 PM
I never said anything about the laws, I said the "red tape"...the backlog of documentation, and mid level bureaucrats. If you think the illegals being here problem is strictly Mexicans jumping the border you're deluded. There are "illegal" Canadians, Chinese, Russians, Arabs, English, French, Italian, etc... in this country as well. Most of whom are still in illegal status because of the backlog of paperwork and whatnot in the system.

My problem isn't that the laws are wrong or flawed, it's that the entire Immigration and Naturalization process is a toilet that had 4-5 rolls stuffed down it then flushed and is clogged to high hell.


the canadians/russians/chinese/arabs/french/etc numbers are a drop in the bucket of illegals.....less than 1%....

Tulsa_Fireman
10/20/2010, 01:29 PM
Does anybody else have an idea on how to check the power of the judicial branch?

Yeah.

No perpetuation of the misnomer of "legislating from the bench" and sound, constitutionally based legislation, not just trendy, playing to your constituency bullcrap.

Frozen Sooner
10/20/2010, 01:31 PM
I would like to see an amendment that places a term limit on Supreme Court justices.

The judicial branch has virtually no checks on its power. While the above amendment does nothing to address this problem, it would prevent a small group of "untouchable" people from exercising ruling power for decades.

Does anybody else have an idea on how to check the power of the judicial branch?

If your problem is with how the judiciary construes a statutes, you pass another law making the statute clearly reflect legislative intent.

If your problem is with how the judiciary interpreted the Constitution, you pass a Constitutional amendment (see 11th Amendment, which was passed specifically to overturn a particular decision of the Court).

Congress may divest the lower federal courts of jurisdiction if they feel that the District and Circuit Courts are getting it wrong.

87sooner
10/20/2010, 01:31 PM
What's wrong with 60k citizens? (and yes, I am aware that you pulled that number out of thin air) Is it because you don't like them?

i pulled it from the dallas morning news....
what's wrong with 60k citizens that don't deserve citenship?
it's not right...
but you can't seem to comprehend the concept of rewarding criminal behavior...




You are trying to punish the children for the transgressions of their parents. Law says if you are born here, you are a citizen. You want to take that away from a specific ethnic group. That is... well, I'll let you draw your own conclusions.


i know what the law says....
try to focus for one second..
this thread is about AMENDMENTS to the constitution...
that means CHANGES...

and i don't want to take it from a "specific ethnic group"...
i want to take it from EVERY ethnic group that is here illegally..

Frozen Sooner
10/20/2010, 01:35 PM
What illegal behavior are we rewarding by granting someone who was born here citizenship? They haven't done anything wrong, their parents aren't granted citizenship, and last I checked "corruption of the blood" was a principle we don't really get behind as a nation. Not saying there's no argument for not granting citizenship to children of non-citizens, but that doesn't seem like a particularly good one.

I am, for what it's worth, behind deporting the parents and if they don't feel good about leaving their kids behind, well, so be it. The kids can come back later if they wish.

The
10/20/2010, 01:42 PM
i pulled it from the dallas morning news....
what's wrong with 60k citizens that don't deserve citenship?
it's not right...
but you can't seem to comprehend the concept of rewarding criminal behavior...

No you are upset because I disagree with your draconian world view. And I ask for the third time, what has the citizen done wrong? What did babby do?






i know what the law says....
try to focus for one second..
this thread is about AMENDMENTS to the constitution...
that means CHANGES...

and i don't want to take it from a "specific ethnic group"...
i want to take it from EVERY ethnic group that is here illegally..

Yet, you freely admit that 99% of the illegal immigration is Mexican. Seems pretty specific to me.

pphilfran
10/20/2010, 01:43 PM
Once the illegals drop the legal little rug rat there is no way in hell that they will get deported...mom and dad you gotta go...rug rat you can stay...

We have laws regarding immigration...use and support them...

The
10/20/2010, 01:46 PM
Once the illegals drop the legal little rug rat there is no way in hell that they will get deported...mom and dad you gotta go...rug rat you can stay...

We have laws regarding immigration...use and support them...


Er, no. Parents get deported everyday. Teh googles are helpful.

Tulsa_Fireman
10/20/2010, 01:47 PM
I HATE MESSICANS ARRRRRRRR MOW MY LAWN

pphilfran
10/20/2010, 01:58 PM
Er, no. Parents get deported everyday. Teh googles are helpful.

Does the baby go also?

We deport "legal" citizens?

If the little chit stays who foots the bill?

The
10/20/2010, 02:03 PM
Does the baby go also?

We deport "legal" citizens?

If the little chit stays who foots the bill?


Most often, yes. Otherwise relatives look after babby.

87sooner
10/20/2010, 02:04 PM
No you are upset because I disagree with your draconian world view. And I ask for the third time, what has the citizen done wrong? What did babby do?

i'm not upset...
i'm only mildly annoyed that you have difficulty focusing on the discussion..
i never said illegals' babies did anything "wrong"...






Yet, you freely admit that 99% of the illegal immigration is Mexican. Seems pretty specific to me.


i know what it seems like to you.....hard for your type to imagine anything else...
but trust me...if it were 99% russians....or arabs....or canadians...or chinese...or indians....or etc....i would feel the same way...

Tulsa_Fireman
10/20/2010, 02:06 PM
Like you do with your vocal outcry against the Irish who are by far the 2nd largest illegal community in the US?

Or is that not convenient, hating on dem whitefolks?

The
10/20/2010, 02:13 PM
i'm not upset...
i'm only mildly annoyed that you have difficulty focusing on the discussion..
i never said illegals' babies did anything "wrong"...

And there's the "YOUR STUPID" post I was waiting for. Seems to be a pattern with you...




i know what it seems like to you.....hard for your type to imagine anything else...
but trust me...if it were 99% russians....or arabs....or canadians...or chinese...or indians....or etc....i would feel the same way...

I wouldn't trust you to mop the floor of a McDonald's on a Tuesday afternoon.

87sooner
10/20/2010, 02:16 PM
And there's the "YOUR STUPID" post I was waiting for. Seems to be a pattern with you...


you call yourself a cultural elite but you argue the current law in a thread about proposed constitutional amendments....
i don't know if it's because you're stupid or not...
nonetheless....it annoys me...




I wouldn't trust you to mop the floor of a McDonald's on a Tuesday afternoon.

i'm sure when you go thru your applications you will get plenty from illegals or children of illegals that you can trust...

i didn't realize cultural elites managed the golden arches...

The
10/20/2010, 02:21 PM
you call yourself a cultural elite but you argue the current law in a thread about proposed constitutional amendments....
i don't know if it's because you're stupid or not...
nonetheless....it annoys me...




i'm sure when you go thru your applications you will get plenty from illegals or children of illegals that you can trust...

i didn't realize cultural elites managed the golden arches...

I ♥ U.

tommieharris91
10/20/2010, 02:23 PM
Do you have a better way of determining citizenship other than by birthright?
Still waiting on an answer...

Tulsa_Fireman
10/20/2010, 02:24 PM
ANSWER: Throw them in the river. If they drown, they're citizens. If they float then they're not and should be burned at the stake.

tommieharris91
10/20/2010, 02:32 PM
ANSWER: Throw them in the river. If they drown, they're citizens. If they float then they're not and should be burned at the stake.

Ahh, the O'Donnell method...

87sooner
10/20/2010, 02:34 PM
Do you have a better way of determining citizenship other than by birthright?




Still waiting on an answer...

sorry but i don't even understand your question...
i suggested a constitutional amendment to abolish birthright citizenship for offspring of illegal immigrants....

i'll let you figure out how to "determine citizenship"....whatever that means..

tommieharris91
10/20/2010, 02:54 PM
sorry but i don't even understand your question...
i suggested a constitutional amendment to abolish birthright citizenship for offspring of illegal immigrants....

i'll let you figure out how to "determine citizenship"....whatever that means..

If citizenship by birthright were to be abolished, then some other method of gaining citizenship of the United States must be put in its place. So, once again, have you thought of another method to determine citizenship than by birthright?

87sooner
10/20/2010, 02:56 PM
If citizenship by birthright were to be abolished, then some other method of gaining citizenship of the United States must be put in its place. So, once again, have you thought of another method to determine citizenship than by birthright?

no other method/laws would be needed....
we already have laws for gaining citizenship....

Tulsa_Fireman
10/20/2010, 02:59 PM
i suggested a constitutional amendment to abolish birthright citizenship for offspring of illegal immigrants...


So, once again, have you thought of another method to determine citizenship than by birthright?

Don't forget to mention how if you eliminate the prospect of citizenship by constitutional amendment in the manner of which he suggests, it essentially eliminates said person being able to gain citizenship via legal means as well.

Secondly, I suggest we add "awesomeness" as a requirement for citizenship while eliminating all others. I am full of awesomeness, therefore I will be the first citizen, also known as "King Sh*t" or "BAD *SS MUTHAF&#$%" as is stamped on my small leather bag of dicks.

Tommie, my first order of business is you eliminate JohnnyMack with extreme prejudice.

tommieharris91
10/20/2010, 03:04 PM
Tommie, my first order of business is you eliminate JohnnyMack with extreme prejudice.

I was gonna get Collier first.

87sooner
10/20/2010, 03:05 PM
Don't forget to mention how if you eliminate the prospect of citizenship by constitutional amendment in the manner of which he suggests, it essentially eliminates said person being able to gain citizenship via legal means as well.


it may...or it may not....
is that a problem?
if so...why?
i don't see it as a problem....
nothing in the constitution i'm aware of that guarantees citizens of a foreign country....the right to become american citizens....

sooner_born_1960
10/20/2010, 03:08 PM
I give this round to 87sooner. Round two begins immediately.

OU_Sooners75
10/20/2010, 03:08 PM
Repeal the bill of rights... Wait the federal government doesn't need to amend the constitution for that!

tommieharris91
10/20/2010, 03:12 PM
Repeal the bill of rights... Wait the federal government doesn't need to amend the constitution for that!

yea they do

tommieharris91
10/20/2010, 03:25 PM
it may...or it may not....
is that a problem?
if so...why?
i don't see it as a problem....
nothing in the constitution i'm aware of that guarantees citizens of a foreign country....the right to become american citizens....

So... you like not giving your kids and grandkids US citizenship... What do you do... if a foreigner is here... legally... and has a kid? How... do your own... kids... become citizens?

I can... write like Soonerus... too...

Tulsa_Fireman
10/20/2010, 03:26 PM
You don't get it at all.

MESSICANS R ROONIN THE ****RY AMERICUH YYEEEAAAAAOOOWWW!

Frozen Sooner
10/20/2010, 03:29 PM
Repeal the bill of rights... Wait the federal government doesn't need to amend the constitution for that!

Er, yeah. They do. Unless you're Christine O'Donnell, it's pretty easy to figure out that Congress can't establish a religion without a repeal of the First Amendment.

87sooner
10/20/2010, 03:36 PM
So... you like not giving your kids and grandkids US citizenship... What do you do... if a foreigner is here... legally... and has a kid? How... do your own... kids... become citizens?

I can... write like Soonerus... too...

i would not change birthright citizenship for children of american citizens...
only for children of illegal immigrants...

Tulsa_Fireman
10/20/2010, 03:38 PM
it may...or it may not....
is that a problem?
if so...why?
i don't see it as a problem....
nothing in the constitution i'm aware of that guarantees citizens of a foreign country....the right to become american citizens....

This....is retarded. I can't help but read this like Bill Shatner is saying it.

So what you're essentially saying is that because they're illegal, we should bane their kids. They're illegal because they didn't follow the law of the land. But you want to make a CONSTITUTIONAL law that eliminates the ability for that person to legally apply for citizenship because their parents broke the law before and bore the child in the U.S. So the end result is that the child, who tries to make an effort to obtain legal citizenship now CAN'T because of your law, therefore perpetuating the illegality of their presence.

Wow. You breathe through your mouth, Kirk?

Tulsa_Fireman
10/20/2010, 03:42 PM
Short change of topic.

I'd like to have a constitutional amendment that says all women should have to show me their boobies on my personal request. This amendment applies only to me.

87sooner
10/20/2010, 03:46 PM
This....is retarded. I can't help but read this like Bill Shatner is saying it.

So what you're essentially saying is that because they're illegal, we should bane their kids. They're illegal because they didn't follow the law of the land. But you want to make a CONSTITUTIONAL law that eliminates the ability for that person to legally apply for citizenship because their parents broke the law before and bore the child in the U.S. So the end result is that the child, who tries to make an effort to obtain legal citizenship now CAN'T because of your law, therefore perpetuating the illegality of their presence.

Wow. You breathe through your mouth, Kirk?


here's what i'm essentially saying...i'm not sure what the hell you're essentially thinking...

i want to make it constitutional law that if a person is in this country illegally....and has a child...said child is NOT AUTOMATICALLY AN AMERICAN CITIZEN...
that child would be considered illegal just like its parent...
the parent and child can go back to their country of citizenship and apply for citizenship just like every other citizen of a foreign country...

The
10/20/2010, 03:50 PM
here's what i'm essentially saying...i'm not sure what the hell you're essentially thinking...

i want to make it constitutional law that if a person is in this country illegally....and has a child...said child is NOT AUTOMATICALLY AN AMERICAN CITIZEN...
that child would be considered illegal just like its parent...
the parent and child can go back to their country of citizenship and apply for citizenship just like every other citizen of a foreign country...

Why are you even concerned about this? Is there some other reason other than not wanting more brown citizens? Slowing illegal immigration is fine and dandy, but THIS is what you are concerned about?

Or, do your solutions go further? Towards finality, say...

SicEmBaylor
10/20/2010, 03:51 PM
1. A balanced budget amendment.
2. A line-item veto for the President
3. Repeal of the 14th, 17th, 23rd, 24th, and 26th Amendments.

87sooner
10/20/2010, 03:53 PM
Why are you even concerned about this? Is there some other reason other than not wanting more brown citizens? Slowing illegal immigration is fine and dandy, but THIS is what you are concerned about?

Or, do your solutions go further? Towards finality, say...


you've proven you mettle and motives in this discussion...
you can bow out now....
stop thinking.....you might hurt yourself...

(this is my "you're stupid" post)

The
10/20/2010, 03:56 PM
you've proven you mettle and motives in this discussion...
you can bow out now....
stop thinking.....you might hurt yourself...

(this is my "you're stupid" post)

Nah, I'm waiting for you to finally asplode and tell us what you really think.

/did a mexican do something bad to you once? From where dost thou hatred flow?

Frozen Sooner
10/20/2010, 03:58 PM
1. A balanced budget amendment.
2. A line-item veto for the President
3. Repeal of the 14th, 17th, 23rd, 24th, and 26th Amendments.

Surely you meant to include the 13th...:D

tommieharris91
10/20/2010, 04:01 PM
1. A balanced budget amendment.
2. A line-item veto for the President
3. Repeal of the 14th, 17th, 23rd, 24th, and 26th Amendments.

I'm shocked you didn't include the 16th.

SicEmBaylor
10/20/2010, 04:03 PM
Surely you meant to include the 13th...:D

I have a big problem with the illegal way in which the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments were ratified. HOWEVER, I have no issue with the actual written word of the 13th or 15th. Contrary to popular belief, I abhor the idea of slavery. And there's nothing more wrong than limiting the rights of a free individual based on an innate physical trait that they have no control over.

As with the ending of slavery and a lot of other things, my hangup is really over the means not the ends.

SicEmBaylor
10/20/2010, 04:07 PM
I'm shocked you didn't include the 16th.

The Feds still have to have some source of revenue and the old sources just aren't going to cut it anymore. What I don't like is a progressive income tax, and what I would like to see is it replaced by a flat-tax.

Frozen Sooner
10/20/2010, 04:07 PM
Oh, jeez. You're lifting arguments from Stormfront now?

SCOUT
10/20/2010, 04:09 PM
Like you do with your vocal outcry against the Irish who are by far the 2nd largest illegal community in the US?

Or is that not convenient, hating on dem whitefolks?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/daily/graphics/immigrants_032205.gif

Irish would fall into the European category and not Asian right?

The
10/20/2010, 04:09 PM
The Feds still have to have some source of revenue and the old sources just aren't going to cut it anymore. What I don't like is a progressive income tax, and what I would like to see is it replaced by a flat-tax.

Why a flat tax? I'm assuming you mean a "everybody pays 12%" or somesuch, right?

Frozen Sooner
10/20/2010, 04:11 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/daily/graphics/immigrants_032205.gif

Irish would fall into the European category and not Asian right?

I know that when I get sushi, they always bring me ginger.

SicEmBaylor
10/20/2010, 04:14 PM
Oh, jeez. You're lifting arguments from Stormfront now?

I don't know what Stormfront is.

Tulsa_Fireman
10/20/2010, 04:15 PM
Why a flat tax? I'm assuming you mean a "everybody pays 12%" or somesuch, right?

Hells yeah.

And Scout, I stand corrected. I've heard from a few different places that the irish are number two. Now I know.

And knowing is half the battle!

SicEmBaylor
10/20/2010, 04:16 PM
Why a flat tax? I'm assuming you mean a "everybody pays 12%" or somesuch, right?

More or less. There would be some exemptions and rebates for lower-income brackets, but essentially yes.

It would vastly simplify the tax code making it very easy for every American to understand exactly what they owe. It would be more fair. It would end corporate tax loopholes and loopholes routinely exploited by the upper income-brackets, etc.

I also like the idea of a national sales tax.

The
10/20/2010, 04:21 PM
More or less. There would be some exemptions and rebates for lower-income brackets, but essentially yes.

It would vastly simplify the tax code making it very easy for every American to understand exactly what they owe. It would be more fair. It would end corporate tax loopholes and loopholes routinely exploited by the upper income-brackets, etc.

I also like the idea of a national sales tax.

So, there would be no deductions?

SicEmBaylor
10/20/2010, 04:27 PM
So, there would be no deductions?

Not exactly, no. Like I said, the lower income brackets could get some sort of rebate but it would be a fixed rebate.

SicEmBaylor
10/20/2010, 04:28 PM
Tax deductions have always struck me as something of a scam and a means by which those who can work the system can avoid paying taxes.

They're a big part of what makes the tax code so unbelievably complicated.

The
10/20/2010, 04:33 PM
So, would all income be treated generally the same? Capital gains, wages, judgments, inheritance, etc?