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SicEmBaylor
10/14/2010, 06:15 PM
Folks, it seems some of you are under the mistaken impression that (assuming a GOP takeover of either the House and/or Senate) there will be a real fundamental difference between the 110th/111th Congress and the 112th. Let me just stop you right there -- any change, at best, will be marginal. Let me tell you just a few things that are not going to happen if and when the GOP retakes control of one or both bodies of Congress:

1. The GOP will not repeal ObamaCare. It isn't going to happen -- plain and simple. Sure, they may tweak the health care bill here and there and reform parts and then go to the public and tout it as a major revision, but the health care bill and its major tenants are here to stay. For one thing, Obama himself is never ever going to sign legislation that guts the marquee legislation of his first-term. Secondly, by the time a Republican President comes to office (and let me tell you it is most definitely NOT a sure thing that Obama will lose in '12) the health care bill will be well established in American law.

2. The GOP will not cut the budget. You aren't going to see huge and much needed budget cuts under a Republican congress even when they're trying to stick it to a Democrat President. It has almost never happened, and the new Congress will be absolutely no different. You can put away any thoughts that the new Congress will be fiscally responsible right now. Sure, programs here and there may see some cuts but Congress will still spend far far far more than the revenue it brings in. And what will happen when we have a Republican President? Well, they'll go back to the sort of spending we saw with a GOP Congress and President Bush. There's absolutely no question that the Republican Party is as fiscally irresponsible as the Democrats -- we need only look at 8 years of Republican rule to see the truth.

3. The GOP will not reduce the deficit. The Republican Party has shown that it's far more interested in tax-cuts without reciprocal cuts in spending. For years, GOP policy makers and economists told us the deficit was nothing to be concerned about so long as the economy continued to grow. Well, now the economy isn't growing and our national deficit has reached a level that is almost impossible to even conceptualize. According to the US National Debt Clock, our national debt stands at a staggering 13.6 TRILLION dollars which amounts to a debt of $43,000 per American. The consequences of this debt are so dire that it astounds me that people aren't in the street with torches and pitchforks. Perhaps most Americans are waiting for the day when the floor truly drops from under our feet and the situation becomes virtually un-fixable. ANY politician who votes for a single new cent of government spending should be tarred and feathered on Constitution ave.

4. The GOP will not protect our civil liberties. Another thing the GOP is not going to do is stop the encroachment on our civil liberties under the auspices of our protection and fighting un-winnable "wars" against drugs, terrorism, and other boogey men. Rarely does a single day go by that we don't read a new story about a Federal law-enforcement agency harassing or arresting citizens that pose NO threat to society-at-large. Combined with new technology and creative ways to track citizens, Big Brother isn't coming...he's already here. Sadly, you won't see "law and order" Republicans do a thing to protect our individual rights that become fewer and fewer every day and go well beyond 2nd Amendment issues.

5. The GOP will not remove us from disastrous foreign treaties and organizations. If you're sure of nothing else, be sure that the GOP will do little or nothing to remove us from the United Nations or NATO. Despite the fact that Republicans love to use hatred of the UN to rally grass-roots supporters, when it comes time to put up or shut up, the GOP will put up. You will never see a serious Republican effort to withdraw our support from the UN even if we had 50 years of continual-GOP power. Likewise, more than 60 years after WWII and almost 20 years since the fall of the Soviet Union, we continue to pledge our support to NATO long after it has outlived its purpose. There is absolutely no compelling reason that we should continue to spend money to support vast numbers of troops and equipment overseas in places like Europe and Cold War hotspots like Korea. Bringing these troops home would save money and send a clear message that our Republic was not created to be the world's policeman, to spend billions of dollars nation-building, to build new shacks replacing old shacks in useless 3rd world pit-holes, or to "protect" allies that are perfectly capable of protecting themselves.

6. The GOP will not remove us from our NAFTA and CAFTA treaty obligations. Free trade is great when trade is between two equitable economies. For example, these United States and Canada have very similar economies with very similar tax systems and regulator obligations. When promoting NAFTA during the 90s, President Clinton told Americans workers and industry that they had to learn to "compete" on the world stage. The problem is that American labor can not compete with the kind of cheap labor found in Mexico and Latin America. American industry is saddled with taxes, minimum wage requirements, regulations, etc. that are often missing south of the border. There is no question that American workers are among the finest if not the finest in the entire world, but there is simply nothing their respective industries can do to compete against Mexican workers that are paid in a month what one American worker has to get paid in a day. The result is that our manufacturing industries are vanishing, Americans are losing their jobs, and those jobs are going south of the border where Mexican industry isn't saddled with the same the level of restrictions their American counterparts have been. I absolutely support free-trade with a nation that we can truly compete against on a level playing field, but I have a huge problem with expecting American workers to compete with two hands tied behind their back and hopping on one leg. The problem with free-trade agreements is that it limits our nation's sovereign right to craft and change trade policy based on changing the changing economy.

7. The GOP will not eliminate or reduce massive unconstitutional Federal agencies, departments, and bureaucracies. For decades, the GOP talked about eliminating Federal agencies that were either unconstitutional, unnecessary, inefficient, or (likely) all 3 combined. The GOP dropped this plank from their platform but, under President Bush, did a complete 180 creating one of the largest new entitlement programs since the Great Society (Medicare prescription drugs) while giving the much-hated Department of Education a wide range of new powers that encroached on the rights of states and local government to control education policy. Worse yet, a Republican Congress and Republican President created a multitude of new government agencies with an untold number of new levels of bureaucracies to "stream line" the process of gathering and sharing intelligence related to national security. All of this time, and I thought only Democrats were stupid enough to believe that you could make a system more efficient by creating more government. The 112th Congress under the Republicans will likely have much of the same leadership that was responsible for these massive failures during the Bush years.

8. The GOP will not reform. If you're expecting the GOP to reform itself from the massive failures its accumulated since 1998/2000 then who they pick as their national leaders will be very telling. Boehner will almost certainly become Speaker of the House, unfortunately. Who the GOP chooses as its Majority Leader is going to tell the degree to which the GOP is interested in reform. If they pick from the same old cabal that was responsible for running GOP House operations from the last time they were in power then they have learned nothing. There are some good young reformers in the House and they need to be put into positions of leadership.

Finally, this should be the very last chance for the GOP as a national party. If they get this wrong, which I expect them to do, then true grass-roots conservatives need to burn the GOP house down and start anew. The party is barely worth supporting (on a national level) as it is, but one more massive failure like their last 8-10 years in power should be met with universal scorn and derision by all conservatives. Some of you may continue to parrot that ridiculous line about supporting the "lesser of two evils." That may be good enough for you, but for a Republic as great as ours was supposed to be and under a governmental framework that is the greatest in all human history...I demand a little bit better.

pphilfran
10/14/2010, 06:18 PM
Odds are you are correct...

49r
10/14/2010, 06:36 PM
I'm 49r and I approve this message.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
10/14/2010, 06:59 PM
Brought to you by the Libertarian(Democrat) Party. You GO, 3rd partyites. You'll show 'em. haha.

Soonerman82
10/14/2010, 07:27 PM
Meh both parties suck.

OUinFLA
10/14/2010, 07:49 PM
SicEm, I think your post is very well thought out, and after several decades of observing political promises disolve into personal advantages, I believe your post has lots of merit.

Unfortunately, I also do not perceive a 3rd party ever commanding power in the executive branch, or the legislative branch in the remaining years of my life time, and perhaps not in my children's lifetime.

Realistically, the "lessor of two evils" appears the only choice for many years to come.

I lean towards a legislative branch controled by the party of opposition to the executive branch. It seems to be the only form of balance of power available.

Chuck Bao
10/14/2010, 08:30 PM
Very good and well-thought out post, SicEm. I think you are right on all points. Major spek.

If I would add anything is that it is more about the commitments under WTO and APEC (Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation) than NAFTA, in my opinion.

You are very right in that no Republican controlled-congress or future Republican White House will do anything about it, especially with large US corporations having spent many billions of dollars over the last 15 years investing in manufacturing plants in China and elsewhere in Asia. Or, they now so heavily rely on the supply of goods coming from Asia that they can't operate without it. Besides that, the US can't turn its back on free trade unless it wants to spark a global depression.

Think what happened at the end of the Bush administration when almost all US major banks were considered credit risks and their letters of credit were being refused by overseas banks - global trade and manufacturing output immediately shrank by half. This lasted for 3-4 months until it was clear that the financial bail-out scheme would succeed in restoring confidence.

Also, I think you are very right in stating that it will have to take Americans angry enough and with torches and pitchforks to change it. I really don't see unemployment declining anytime in the next 10 years and the strain on society will be pretty tough to take.

Besides politics, I would very much like to see consumers become more active in a "Buy American-produced products Only" campaign. Okay, that is not going to do much at first, but at least it is a start. Washington is not going to help. We have to help ourselves.

SicEmBaylor
10/14/2010, 09:00 PM
SicEm, I think your post is very well thought out, and after several decades of observing political promises disolve into personal advantages, I believe your post has lots of merit.

Unfortunately, I also do not perceive a 3rd party ever commanding power in the executive branch, or the legislative branch in the remaining years of my life time, and perhaps not in my children's lifetime.

Realistically, the "lessor of two evils" appears the only choice for many years to come.

I lean towards a legislative branch controled by the party of opposition to the executive branch. It seems to be the only form of balance of power available.

It's not so much that I want multi-party system (more than 2) -- it would be pretty hard to work that out since House and Senate rules on the Federal level to all 50 states are designed for a two-party system. No, what I really want to see is a 3rd partly supplant the GOP as one of the dominant two parties...preferably the Libertarian Party but I'd just be happy to see a party that offers a true choice between liberty and government.

OUthunder
10/14/2010, 09:07 PM
Good post, both parties are the reason for our problems. Obama just took the ball and ran around the world with it once or twice.

I hope that one day we have a three party system. Until then, I'll vote my conscience.

landrun
10/14/2010, 09:27 PM
Folks, it seems some of you are under the mistaken impression that (assuming a GOP takeover of either the House and/or Senate) there will be a real fundamental difference between the 110th/111th Congress and the 112th. Let me just stop you right there -- any change, at best, will be marginal. Let me tell you just a few things that are not going to happen if and when the GOP retakes control of one or both bodies of Congress:

1. The GOP will not repeal ObamaCare. It isn't going to happen -- plain and simple. Sure, they may tweak the health care bill here and there and reform parts and then go to the public and tout it as a major revision, but the health care bill and its major tenants are here to stay. For one thing, Obama himself is never ever going to sign legislation that guts the marquee legislation of his first-term. Secondly, by the time a Republican President comes to office (and let me tell you it is most definitely NOT a sure thing that Obama will lose in '12) the health care bill will be well established in American law.

2. The GOP will not cut the budget. You aren't going to see huge and much needed budget cuts under a Republican congress even when they're trying to stick it to a Democrat President. It has almost never happened, and the new Congress will be absolutely no different. You can put away any thoughts that the new Congress will be fiscally responsible right now. Sure, programs here and there may see some cuts but Congress will still spend far far far more than the revenue it brings in. And what will happen when we have a Republican President? Well, they'll go back to the sort of spending we saw with a GOP Congress and President Bush. There's absolutely no question that the Republican Party is as fiscally irresponsible as the Democrats -- we need only look at 8 years of Republican rule to see the truth.

3. The GOP will not reduce the deficit. The Republican Party has shown that it's far more interested in tax-cuts without reciprocal cuts in spending. For years, GOP policy makers and economists told us the deficit was nothing to be concerned about so long as the economy continued to grow. Well, now the economy isn't growing and our national deficit has reached a level that is almost impossible to even conceptualize. According to the US National Debt Clock, our national debt stands at a staggering 13.6 TRILLION dollars which amounts to a debt of $43,000 per American. The consequences of this debt are so dire that it astounds me that people aren't in the street with torches and pitchforks. Perhaps most Americans are waiting for the day when the floor truly drops from under our feet and the situation becomes virtually un-fixable. ANY politician who votes for a single new cent of government spending should be tarred and feathered on Constitution ave.

4. The GOP will not protect our civil liberties. Another thing the GOP is not going to do is stop the encroachment on our civil liberties under the auspices of our protection and fighting un-winnable "wars" against drugs, terrorism, and other boogey men. Rarely does a single day go by that we don't read a new story about a Federal law-enforcement agency harassing or arresting citizens that pose NO threat to society-at-large. Combined with new technology and creative ways to track citizens, Big Brother isn't coming...he's already here. Sadly, you won't see "law and order" Republicans do a thing to protect our individual rights that become fewer and fewer every day and go well beyond 2nd Amendment issues.

5. The GOP will not remove us from disastrous foreign treaties and organizations. If you're sure of nothing else, be sure that the GOP will do little or nothing to remove us from the United Nations or NATO. Despite the fact that Republicans love to use hatred of the UN to rally grass-roots supporters, when it comes time to put up or shut up, the GOP will put up. You will never see a serious Republican effort to withdraw our support from the UN even if we had 50 years of continual-GOP power. Likewise, more than 60 years after WWII and almost 20 years since the fall of the Soviet Union, we continue to pledge our support to NATO long after it has outlived its purpose. There is absolutely no compelling reason that we should continue to spend money to support vast numbers of troops and equipment overseas in places like Europe and Cold War hotspots like Korea. Bringing these troops home would save money and send a clear message that our Republic was not created to be the world's policeman, to spend billions of dollars nation-building, to build new shacks replacing old shacks in useless 3rd world pit-holes, or to "protect" allies that are perfectly capable of protecting themselves.

6. The GOP will not remove us from our NAFTA and CAFTA treaty obligations. Free trade is great when trade is between two equitable economies. For example, these United States and Canada have very similar economies with very similar tax systems and regulator obligations. When promoting NAFTA during the 90s, President Clinton told Americans workers and industry that they had to learn to "compete" on the world stage. The problem is that American labor can not compete with the kind of cheap labor found in Mexico and Latin America. American industry is saddled with taxes, minimum wage requirements, regulations, etc. that are often missing south of the border. There is no question that American workers are among the finest if not the finest in the entire world, but there is simply nothing their respective industries can do to compete against Mexican workers that are paid in a month what one American worker has to get paid in a day. The result is that our manufacturing industries are vanishing, Americans are losing their jobs, and those jobs are going south of the border where Mexican industry isn't saddled with the same the level of restrictions their American counterparts have been. I absolutely support free-trade with a nation that we can truly compete against on a level playing field, but I have a huge problem with expecting American workers to compete with two hands tied behind their back and hopping on one leg. The problem with free-trade agreements is that it limits our nation's sovereign right to craft and change trade policy based on changing the changing economy.

7. The GOP will not eliminate or reduce massive unconstitutional Federal agencies, departments, and bureaucracies. For decades, the GOP talked about eliminating Federal agencies that were either unconstitutional, unnecessary, inefficient, or (likely) all 3 combined. The GOP dropped this plank from their platform but, under President Bush, did a complete 180 creating one of the largest new entitlement programs since the Great Society (Medicare prescription drugs) while giving the much-hated Department of Education a wide range of new powers that encroached on the rights of states and local government to control education policy. Worse yet, a Republican Congress and Republican President created a multitude of new government agencies with an untold number of new levels of bureaucracies to "stream line" the process of gathering and sharing intelligence related to national security. All of this time, and I thought only Democrats were stupid enough to believe that you could make a system more efficient by creating more government. The 112th Congress under the Republicans will likely have much of the same leadership that was responsible for these massive failures during the Bush years.

8. The GOP will not reform. If you're expecting the GOP to reform itself from the massive failures its accumulated since 1998/2000 then who they pick as their national leaders will be very telling. Boehner will almost certainly become Speaker of the House, unfortunately. Who the GOP chooses as its Majority Leader is going to tell the degree to which the GOP is interested in reform. If they pick from the same old cabal that was responsible for running GOP House operations from the last time they were in power then they have learned nothing. There are some good young reformers in the House and they need to be put into positions of leadership.

Finally, this should be the very last chance for the GOP as a national party. If they get this wrong, which I expect them to do, then true grass-roots conservatives need to burn the GOP house down and start anew. The party is barely worth supporting (on a national level) as it is, but one more massive failure like their last 8-10 years in power should be met with universal scorn and derision by all conservatives. Some of you may continue to parrot that ridiculous line about supporting the "lesser of two evils." That may be good enough for you, but for a Republic as great as ours was supposed to be and under a governmental framework that is the greatest in all human history...I demand a little bit better.

All true. But I think the hope (at least mine) is that they can at least slow it down and hope that over the next 2 years Americans get together and vote in a president and law makers who will do the majority of what you've mentioned above.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
10/15/2010, 12:35 AM
All true. But I think the hope (at least mine) is that they can at least slow it down and hope that over the next 2 years Americans get together and vote in a president and law makers who will do the majority of what you've mentioned above.Yours is the only logical action. To vote Democrat, 3rd party, or not vote, is to give up on the country as America, Land of the Free, and Home of the Brave.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
10/15/2010, 12:39 AM
It's not so much that I want multi-party system (more than 2) -- it would be pretty hard to work that out since House and Senate rules on the Federal level to all 50 states are designed for a two-party system. No, what I really want to see is a 3rd partly supplant the GOP as one of the dominant two parties...preferably the Libertarian Party but I'd just be happy to see a party that offers a true choice between liberty and government.The best, most peaceful thing to do is strengthen the Republican Party, to make it more like what we want, the party of freedom. The Democrats are a lost entity.

SicEmBaylor
10/15/2010, 01:15 AM
The best, most peaceful thing to do is strengthen the Republican Party, to make it more like what we want, the party of freedom. The Democrats are a lost entity.

Yeah....that hasn't and will not work. Change from within doesn't work. The only time the GOP shapes up and changes is when it suffers massive defeats at the ballot box.

TIMB0B
10/15/2010, 01:17 AM
1. The GOP will not repeal ObamaCare. It isn't going to happen -- plain and simple. Sure, they may tweak the health care bill here and there and reform parts and then go to the public and tout it as a major revision, but the health care bill and its major tenants are here to stay. For one thing, Obama himself is never ever going to sign legislation that guts the marquee legislation of his first-term. Secondly, by the time a Republican President comes to office (and let me tell you it is most definitely NOT a sure thing that Obama will lose in '12) the health care bill will be well established in American law.

What about this, SicEm?


PENSACOLA, Fla. (AP) -- A federal judge ruled Thursday that parts of a lawsuit by 20 states seeking to void the Obama administration's health care overhaul can go to trial, saying he wants hear additional arguments from both sides over whether the law is unconstitutional.

In a written ruling, U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson said it needs to be decided whether the plan violates the Constitution by requiring individuals to have health insurance or be penalized through taxes and by overburdening the states by expanding their Medicaid programs. Another federal judge in Michigan threw out a similar lawsuit last week.

Vinson set a hearing for Dec. 16. The lawsuits will likely wind up before the U.S. Supreme Court.

Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum issued a statement praising the ruling as a victory.

"It is the first step to having the individual mandate declared unconstitutional and upholding state sovereignty in our federal system," McCollum said.

He filed the lawsuit just minutes after President Barack Obama signed the 10-year, $938 billion health care bill into law in March. He chose a court in Pensacola, one of Florida's most conservative cities.

The Obama administration has argued the federal government can require that citizens buy health insurance or face tax penalties under its constitutional power to regulate interstate commerce.

The administration's attorneys had told Vinson last month that without the regulatory power to ensure young and healthy people buy health insurance, the health care plan will not survive. They also argued it's up to an individual taxpayer - not the states - to challenge the section requiring health insurance when it takes effect in 2015.

But David Rivkin, an attorney representing the states, argued the law will destroy the states' constitutional sovereignty by burdening them with uncontrolled Medicaid costs. The federal government is overreaching its taxing authority by penalizing people for not taking an action - not buying health insurance, he said.

Vinson's ruling comes a week after District Judge George Caram Steeh in Detroit said the mandate to get insurance by 2014 and the financial penalty for skipping coverage are legal. He said Congress was trying to lower the overall cost of insurance by requiring participation.

There is also a lawsuit pending in Virginia. A federal judge there has allowed the lawsuit to continue, ruling the overhaul raises complex constitutional issues.

The other states involved in the lawsuit Vinson is hearing are Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Indiana, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington.

SicEmBaylor
10/15/2010, 01:25 AM
What about this, SicEm?

Completely different. I wholeheartedly support those states. What they're doing is tantamount to nullification which is fantastic, and I wholeheartedly support it.

If the individual states can either opt themselves out of the law or get it ruled unconstitutional then great, but what I'm talking about is the ZERO possibility that a GOP led Congress will outright repeal the law. It isn't going to happen.

I also doubt that the Supreme Court will overturn the law. I think the best hope for the states that want to opt out is to simply ignore the law and then let the Feds try to enforce it.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
10/15/2010, 01:49 AM
Yeah....that hasn't and will not work. Change from within doesn't work. The only time the GOP shapes up and changes is when it suffers massive defeats at the ballot box.'06 and '08 results, and the Tea Parties, to lead the fight. Best hope America has, for now, anyway.

SicEmBaylor
10/15/2010, 02:03 AM
'06, '08, '10, and the Tea Parties, to lead the fight. Best hope America has, for now, anyway.

That's scary.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
10/15/2010, 02:18 AM
Yes, we are in scary times. Couldn't agree more.

TIMB0B
10/15/2010, 03:15 AM
Completely different. I wholeheartedly support those states. What they're doing is tantamount to nullification which is fantastic, and I wholeheartedly support it.

If the individual states can either opt themselves out of the law or get it ruled unconstitutional then great, but what I'm talking about is the ZERO possibility that a GOP led Congress will outright repeal the law. It isn't going to happen.

I also doubt that the Supreme Court will overturn the law. I think the best hope for the states that want to opt out is to simply ignore the law and then let the Feds try to enforce it.

Yeah, I see what you mean. And I'm also wondering why the hell there aren't more red states on that list. Where's Oklahoma?

SicEmBaylor
10/15/2010, 03:26 AM
Yeah, I see what you mean. And I'm also wondering why the hell there aren't more red states on that list. Where's Oklahoma?

Ask Drew Edmondson.

Midtowner
10/15/2010, 07:07 AM
Yeah, I see what you mean. And I'm also wondering why the hell there aren't more red states on that list. Where's Oklahoma?

Edmondson decided not to get involved because it would have cost the state man power hours and would have gotten us nothing. No need to duplicate the work someone else is going to perform for you for free.