HS Team Forfits Because Opponent Players Too Big

[sooner59]

I have never heard anything like this. This just seems like a pussified move to me. In high school I started at left tackle on the o-line and I was 5'9" 155lbs. I had to go up against 300lb+ guys from time to time. Just get tough, get quick, get low, and get out of the dress Sally.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/blog/prep_rally/post/Massachusetts-school-pulls-out-of-game-citing-si?urn=highschool-274799

[SoonerDomiNation]

No doubt.

[Mississippi Sooner]

Take out the knees. That'll bring any big man down.

[Leroy Lizard]

Serious question: Would you support the smaller school if it asked for (say) a continuous clock (clock always runs)?

I think canceling is a terrible idea. But I think there could be some things the two coaches agree on to keep the carnage to a minimum.

[MojoRisen]

Don't feild a team if you are going to be 2-0 and not play a game. I am sorry but if they don't care to play - they shouldn't have a team. This is ***** ****.

[GKeeper316]

bull**** line up and take your arse whoopin like men...

reminds me of our high school games vs anadarko. them big ol fat injuns made us their bitches for 48 minutes once a year.

[Leroy Lizard]

It would be funny if the coach changed his mind. What would the pre-game speech sound like then?

[TXBOOMER]

What a freaking joke. How humiliating.

[IronSooner]

Wow. I'd be ashamed to be any of the kids on that team. That is absolutely embarrassing. Way to teach kids to quit when the odds don't look good. Some of those kids need to nut up and go play LA in the parking lot if the coach is too much of a sissy to follow through with it.

[SicEmBaylor]

It reminds me of that FNL episode where Coach Taylor forfeits because his players are literally being mauled to death. Of course, at least Taylor made it to half-time!

[sooner59]

Serious question: Would you support the smaller school if it asked for (say) a continuous clock (clock always runs)?

I think canceling is a terrible idea. But I think there could be some things the two coaches agree on to keep the carnage to a minimum.

Speaking from experience, when a small lineman and a big lineman go head to head, two things are going to happen. On offense the big guys will just push the little guys around, and that is about it. On defense, the big guys fall hard when the quicker small guys get in their legs. And yeah its never fun when some big fat *** falls on you, but there is probably a greater chance of the big guy getting hurt. When they get the cut block, big guys risk knee injuries.

[Eielson]

I wouldn't even want to play for a team like that.

[Eielson]

Speaking from experience, when a small lineman and a big lineman go head to head, two things are going to happen. On offense the big guys will just push the little guys around, and that is about it. On defense, the big guys fall hard when the quicker small guys get in their legs. And yeah its never fun when some big fat *** falls on you, but there is probably a greater chance of the big guy getting hurt. When they get the cut block, big guys risk knee injuries.

The problem is that if a 350 pound tub of lard is lined up in the A-gap, and you cut him, the A-gap still isn't opened. He's just laying there making a pile, and you still can't run there. Anyway, seeing as the team that is forfeiting didn't win a game last year, and the other team won all but two games by 40+, I'm guessing that it is more than just a size difference. They would probably get outplayed in every aspect of the game. Regardless, forfeiting just because you have very little chance of winning goes against everything this great sport stands for. It's a cowardly and disgusting decision.

[sooner59]

The problem is that if a 350 pound tub of lard is lined up in the A-gap, and you cut him, the A-gap still isn't opened. He's just laying there making a pile, and you still can't run there. Anyway, seeing as the team that is forfeiting didn't win a game last year, and the other team won all but two games by 40+, I'm guessing that it is more than just a size difference. They would probably get outplayed in every aspect of the game. Regardless, forfeiting just because you have very little chance of winning goes against everything this great sport stands for. It's a cowardly and disgusting decision.

That's when you run to the outside and just avoid the lard ***es. :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

Those pussies need to just start a soccer team.

[TahoeSOONER]

If I was a parent I would be ticked off. A life lesson was just lost on these kids and it's telling them to quit when things get tough.

Everything against what football teaches kids, shame.

[Leroy Lizard]

Agreed. You can't run from your problems. And you also have to keep your commitments.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Who's to say the little guys wouldn't have run circles around the tubbies?

[Dan Thompson]

When my brother was playing HS football, and on their way to an undefeated season, one team quit right in the middle of the game and walked off the field.

[sozo]

Soft........

[CrimsonRez]

So if this was the State Championship game...do they quit then?

[MeMyself&Me]

Speaking from experience, when a small lineman and a big lineman go head to head, two things are going to happen. On offense the big guys will just push the little guys around, and that is about it. On defense, the big guys fall hard when the quicker small guys get in their legs. And yeah its never fun when some big fat *** falls on you, but there is probably a greater chance of the big guy getting hurt. When they get the cut block, big guys risk knee injuries.

I don't entirely agree. Speaking from someone that was a 160 lb guard on offense and noseguard on defense, the big guys were almost always easy. Most of those really big guys in high school are slow with poor technique. Was easy to get under their shoulderpads and pop them up, which made them easy to push around.

The hardest guys I went up against on either side of the ball were the few times that I had someone closer to my own size.

Having said that, from other posts here, it sounds like that team was actually particularly good so their fat asses were probably not like the typical fat asses I played against AND this forfeiting team was actually particularly bad. I'd bet the fear of a 100-0 slaughter had more to do with it. In any case, a ***** move for sure.

[King Barry's Back]

Agreed. You can't run from your problems. And you also have to keep your commitments.

Assumption #1: None of us on this board know anything about that story other than what we read on the page.

Assumption #2: Lawrence Academy is a big-time football factory that regularly recruits studs and sends them on to NCAA schools, and the fancy-boy school is just a fancy boy school where the "kids" play for some exercise and fresh air. And the fancy boys may have few enough players that they literally have trouble fielding a team (I once followed a team like this at a DOD school in Europe. They only 15 players, and three of them suffered season-ending injuries. If they ever got in a situation where more than one guy had to miss snaps, they would have had to play with 10 or forfeit. I believe they did forfeit two of their 6 games.)

Based on those two assumptions, I am going to say that this game was not like an OU-North TX matchup, but more like an OU-Norman High match up. And if so, it's pretty likely that some of those kids were going to suffer season ending injuries while getting beat by 60 points. And then where would the team be?

I think the problem here might be the lack of competitive match ups, rather than "cowardly-ness," but I've been wrong before.

[texaspokieokie]

if they had 300 lb linemen, possibly they have 220 lb backers & 200 lb dbs.
thse guys are probably much faster & can hit much harder.
300 lb linemen doesn't tell the whole story.

it's like when a small school comes to play OU, all OU's players are bigger,stronger & faster. the small school gets a paycheck & their players get physical punishment. one thing is tho, i've never seen a small team
(or any other team) quit.

not a good lesson for those hi school kids. they need to be in a league with parity.

only one thing, that coach knows more about their situation than anyone else.

[badger]

My high school team regularly had less than 30 players (one season we about 15) and teams would still run up the score on us and injure our players. It would utterly crush the team every time to have to go up against these 80-player schools and lose 80-0 each week... and a few more would get injured each time.

So, this situation sounds like it wasn't a fair fight to begin with. I don't see it as teaching kids to quit, but rather, preventing kids from getting hurt.

I've been there, watching my team get outmanned repeatedly (and not for a huge payout from the host school, either) and I feel terrible for those kids.

[Mad Dog Madsen]

I don't care what you guys say... Those guys are pussies!

[texaspokieokie]

Badger has it rite.

[Mad Dog Madsen]

Badger has it rite.

She could have said the total opposite and you would've agreed. :D

[texaspokieokie]

well, maybe ??

[SoCal]

http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/JCJd44beWUOr8Jbmry39hQ/lawrence-academy-spartans/football/home.htm

# Name Pos Yr Ht Wt
1 Anthony Knight RB, LB, WB Sr. 6-1 214
2 Brian Dolan QB, DB, WR Fr. 6-0 150
3 Ryan Harrington LB, TE, ILB Jr. 6-3 220
4 Ben Cerel WR, QB So. 5-9 155
6 Marcus Grant (C) WR, QB, CB Sr. 6-3 190
7 Michael Orloff (C) QB, SS, OLB Sr. 6-1 215
8 Clay Horne TE, WR Sr. 6-8 210
9 Jake Waldie DL, DE Sr. 6-2 205
10 Tyler Beede WR, DB Sr. 6-2 190
11 Kurt Briars DB, DB So. 5-10 168
12 Max Levine TE So. 6-0 182
13 Jonathon Higgins RB, DB So. 5-5 135
14 David Burke QB Sr. 5-11 182
15 Geoffrey Keane RB, DB So. 5-7 155
16 Aubrey Solomon RB, DB So. 5-10 173
17 Steve Drury DB, WR Fr. 5-8 165
18 Bryce Stocks DB, WR, RB Sr. 6-0 175
19 Simon Durkham WR, DB So. 6-0 170
21 Dan Giovacchini (C) ILB, FB, RB Sr. 6-4 210
23 Max Tishman WR, DB, DE So. 6-1 175
24 Dominik Kozlowski DB, K, WR Jr. 6-1 185
33 Ben Clark WR, DB Fr. 5-6 135
34 Jalen Myrie RB, DB So. 5-8 162
36 Peter Taylor DE, FB, RB Sr. 6-0 190
40 Matthew Harnum DB, RB Sr. 5-6 150
41 Cyrus Hamer TE, LB Jr. 5-7 155
42 Owen Moore FB, LB Jr. 6-1 220
43 Jacob Knox LB, OL Jr. 5-10 189
51 Kevin Wnukowski OLB, FB So. 6-1 209
52 Max Ricci OT, DT, OG Sr. 6-4 340
54 Tyler Beauschesne G, C, DT Jr. 6-4 250
55 Jack Michaels DT, OG So. 6-0 220
56 Jacob Riggert OL, DL So. 6-0 190
57 Matt Boone DL, OL, LB Sr. 6-4 210
58 Andrew Richardson LB, OL, TE Jr. 6-1 190
59 Eric Barnes OL, DL So. 5-10 180
60 Ryan Zapoiski DL, OL Jr. 5-11 180
61 Will Blundo OLB, DE Fr. 5-10 169
65 David Holme DL, OL Fr. 6-1 230
66 Ben Potter OL, DL So. 5-11 190
69 Michael Ferris OL, DL Jr. 5-10 189
70 Tyler Cardoze (C) OT, DL Sr. 6-3 324
71 Brendon Mannion DB, RB So. 6-0 196
72 William Wickerham ILB, DE Fr. 5-9 158
73 Sarun Paisarnsrisomsuk DL, OL Sr. 5-10 185
74 Joe Lace DE, LB, FB So. 6-3 215
75 Ryan Welch DT, G Sr. 6-3 300
77 Maurice Kraus OL, DL So. 6-1 195
81 Nevin Cyr LB, TE Sr. 6-6 220
83 Blake Whitehouse RB, WR So. 5-9 150
84 Brian Finn WR, RB So. 5-8 150
89 Sean Mullaney WR, DB So. 6-0 170

[KantoSooner]

Wow! Badger and I went to the same high school! Who knew?

Seriously, I went to a high school that had around 100 kids in a class. We just barely had enough guys go out for football to field a reasonable team. Every year, we played the military high school teams. They had classes of around 500-600. Not surprisingly, the month of October was when we were scheduled to be everyone's homecoming game.

We forfeited a couple of times, when the injuries by halftime made it impossible to field eleven guys. I even got to play QB once (from CB) when our first three QBs all had broken bones. Good hospitals on military bases, though.

Ah, the life lessons! Mostly bitterness, hatred of foes and a driving will to do whatever it takes to rig the game beforehand when there is no hope of straightforward victory. Lessons that have served me well in a business career that now spans more than three decades.

[texaspokieokie]

which team is that ???

[Leroy Lizard]

SoCal, how about filling us in?

[Soonerwake]

I think there might be something else behind all of this. It sounds to me like the schools in that conference/district might be upset over the fact that Lawrence has become a football factory. This sounds alot more like a protest thing than an actual safety thing.

[badger]

She could have said the total opposite and you would've agreed. :D

Gotta agree with the chick, especially if it concerns football.

NOW... AGREE WITH JENNI CARLSON! AGREE WITH HER NOW, or you're a SEXIST PIG! :mad:

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/5SUf1kT6CZ4c.jpg


:P

[Mississippi Sooner]

This thread just took an ugly turn.

[badger]

This thread just took an ugly turn.

:D

Back to the topic at hand, I have very little guilt at crushing a mid-major cupcake for our non-conference openers, because I know they're getting 6-7 figure payouts that will help fund their program's efforts to go from cupcake to decent (it's happened to many of our previous cupcake opponents!). Plus, the chance to showcase your program on a big stage is awesome.

But in high school, there is no nationally (or even regionally) televised stage. There are no scholarship athletes, big checks from the host school, or professional football staffs. Usually, it's a bunch of kids who are too big for cross country running and can't just wait around till wrestling/basketball season and a teacher who might have once played a little football back when he was young. Parents don't send those kids to summer football camps or even buy them Under Armour padded shirts or expensive Nike cleats.

Uggggh... most of the boys on the team were jerks, but you couldn't help but feel bad for them having to faceoff against a bigger, stronger opponent that was three-deep at each position when our team didn't even have enough guys to have offensive/defensive specialists. Thank goodness they didn't have to put in the special ed kid till the last few plays of the fourth quarter (I only wish I was kidding)

[Jacie]

While St. George's withdrawal is a clear black eye on the ISL, the other possible solutions presented to coach MacKay were equally unpalatable. Among other options, Lawrence Academy reportedly offered to play the game at "half speed" to ensure no players got hurt.

Imagine if they had done this! It would have been even worse because it would have been obvious during the game that Lawrence Academy was toyinig with St. George.

This topic is similar to the discussions that followed the 77-0 beat down of aggie. At what point does everyone admit that Team A is an order of magnitude better than Team B and for all intents and purposes the game is over?

In the instance of St. George vs. Lawrence Academy, the headmaster made the decision before kickoff, not late into the game.

[Widescreen]

How do you play a game at half speed anyway? Speed walk?

[badger]

This topic is similar to the discussions that followed the 77-0 beat down of aggie. At what point does everyone admit that Team A is an order of magnitude better than Team B and for all intents and purposes the game is over?

I think they admitted it at the start of the fourth quarter, when Fran Fran and Stoops agreed to have a running clock to make it go faster.

[picasso]

My Freshman year we beat Tulsa Metro Christian at Skelley Stadium by the score of like 42-35. We won state in Class A that season for the second year in a row.
We were loaded in '82 but still tough in '83 with future Sooner Scott Garl playing RB.
The next year Metro came to play us at home and we had lost most of our skill players.
They drove their custom buses onto our track got out and beat us around 68-0.

I luckily had a broken arm and couldn't play.:O

btw, they got a mythical high school national championship that season, '84.

Take your medicine boy.

[Widescreen]

I was at Metro at that time. Our football team was crazy good in the mid 1980's (for a school our size).

[picasso]

I was at Metro at that time. Our football team was crazy good in the mid 1980's (for a school our size).

I knew Jeff Green in college. He had a big ring that looked like it was for the super bowl.
I know you guys recruited just a wweeeee bit in '84.;)

[fadada1]

i'd rather get my *** handed to me than explain why my coach/head master thinks i'm such a nancy boy. the beating these guys take off the field will be much worse than the one they would've taken on the field.

[sooner59]

This. ^

[Eielson]

I don't entirely agree. Speaking from someone that was a 160 lb guard on offense and noseguard on defense, the big guys were almost always easy. Most of those really big guys in high school are slow with poor technique. Was easy to get under their shoulderpads and pop them up, which made them easy to push around.

The hardest guys I went up against on either side of the ball were the few times that I had someone closer to my own size.

Was this a small school? Playing 6A, this was nothing close to the experiences I had.

[toast]

"People don't understand what schools like St. George's are all about. Our students are into much more than athletics. Athletic success is so secondary in a place like this.''

Sounds like a ut fan after a loss...

[sooner59]

Probably small school. I had the same experience. Regardless, when I was at Davis, if they told us we were playing Jenks, we would have relished the chance to play with the big boys....knowing good and well we would get our *** handed to us. We would still give them everything we had to prove to them we were just a bunch of little b1tches that would roll over because we were overmatched or because it said "Jenks" on their jerseys. Probably would have been 56-0 at halftime, but we wouldn't have forfeited.

[landrun]

Why was this game even scheduled? Doesn't the AD/Football Coach who just forfeited schedule it??


While St. George's withdrawal is a clear black eye on the ISL, the other possible solutions presented to coach MacKay were equally unpalatable. Among other options, Lawrence Academy reportedly offered to play the game at "half speed" to ensure no players got hurt.

That's funny!

They could have offered to play with 8 men. To have their qb throw left handed or only get 3 downs etc...:D

[SicEmBaylor]

Even Aggie didn't forfeit when you guys laid 77 on 'em. Hell, you guys were literally just falling down on the ground after the snap to stop from scoring. :D

[sooner59]

Even Aggie didn't forfeit when you guys laid 77 on 'em. Hell, you guys were literally just falling down on the ground after the snap to stop from scoring. :D

Nuh-uh. Mikey Loopicuh done said we were da Debul. :(






:D

[Crucifax Autumn]

Luckily aggie likes having the pipe laid on 'em.

[Leroy Lizard]

I think this school's players were facing the prospect that they were'nt even going to be able to stop the other team on any plays.

I understand the coach's position a little more now. You play sports to compete. But this was no competition. These players had 0 chance of success. Sure, you can enter a Pinto in the Indy 500, but you're just going to get run over. So what's the point?

I wouldn't have canceled though. I would have forged an agreement for the clock to run throughout. You might get stomped, but it will only be for one hour.

Jump offsides and you can kill 20 seconds off the clock right there. And this way they only average 5 yards a pop, instead of 25.

[sooner59]

I see where you are coming from Leroy, and I respect the fact that you still wouldn't throw in the towel. And I have no problem with running the clock. But like someone said....why did they even schedule this game? We always had scouting reports on teams we played. I knew the names of the starters on the other team, their height, weight, year in HS, and what formations they were in. Apparently that team just shows up without knowing who the hell they are even playing. That's what jumps out at me right now. If you don't want to play them, don't schedule them.

[Leroy Lizard]

I see where you are coming from Leroy, and I respect the fact that you still wouldn't throw in the towel. And I have no problem with running the clock. But like someone said....why did they even schedule this game?

Are they in the same division? If so, they have to play each other. And if so, why are they in the same division?

[sooner59]

I'm not sure. I just know that the forfeiting team was from Rhode Island and the Big Boys were from Mass. So sounds like it was an elective course. They tried to withdraw, but it was too late, and it turned into an F.

[Leroy Lizard]

In the meantime, some Horn fans think that the Rhode Island school's strategy might make for a good Plan B for their next game in Lincoln.

http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=football&Number=6270005&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=all

I'm not sure there is a jar of KY available in Austin this week.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

She could have said the total opposite and you would've agreed. :Dfab-u-lous

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Wow! Badger and I went to the same high school! Who knew?

Seriously, I went to a high school that had around 100 kids in a class. We just barely had enough guys go out for football to field a reasonable team. Every year, we played the military high school teams. They had classes of around 500-600. Not surprisingly, the month of October was when we were scheduled to be everyone's homecoming game.

We forfeited a couple of times, when the injuries by halftime made it impossible to field eleven guys. I even got to play QB once (from CB) when our first three QBs all had broken bones. Good hospitals on military bases, though.

Ah, the life lessons! Mostly bitterness, hatred of foes and a driving will to do whatever it takes to rig the game beforehand when there is no hope of straightforward victory. Lessons that have served me well in a business career that now spans more than three decades.Wow! How did you rig the games beforehand?

[Widescreen]

I knew Jeff Green in college. He had a big ring that looked like it was for the super bowl.
I know you guys recruited just a wweeeee bit in '84.;)

Jeff was a really good athlete. Recruiting in high school? Pfft.

;)

[Eielson]

"People don't understand what schools like St. George's are all about. Our students are into much more than athletics. Athletic success is so secondary in a place like this.''

Sounds like a ut fan after a loss...

Mess up the grammar and you might be onto something.

[Eielson]

Probably small school. I had the same experience. Regardless, when I was at Davis, if they told us we were playing Jenks, we would have relished the chance to play with the big boys....knowing good and well we would get our *** handed to us. We would still give them everything we had to prove to them we were just a bunch of little b1tches that would roll over because we were overmatched or because it said "Jenks" on their jerseys. Probably would have been 56-0 at halftime, but we wouldn't have forfeited.

Oh yeah, I don't doubt it. I don't mean to disrespect the toughness of small school players. I just brought it up because 160 pounders get murdered by bigger schools. My opinion of playing 300 pounders is a little different, because the 300 pound guys I played quite often ended up D1.

[SicEmBaylor]

FTG classes are only around 140 students or so and we never had any problem whatsoever fielding a full team. We were never that great (except when we had Teddy), but I certainly don't think a 100-150 person class base means you have trouble fielding a team.

[sooner59]

Oh yeah, I don't doubt it. I don't mean to disrespect the toughness of small school players. I just brought it up because 160 pounders get murdered by bigger schools. My opinion of playing 300 pounders is a little different, because the 300 pound guys I played quite often ended up D1.

Yeah, the 300 lb guys we played were just fat***es. Most of the D1 guys were 240-280 lb range.....and athletic. Those guys were beasts and regularly owned me. But if I ever got under them before they could get separation, it was over. I realize that a good majority of 6A big boys are legit, just saying that just because someone is big doesn't mean they are going to hurt you. I don't know how many D1 guys that Mass. school is churning out. I just doubt that they were a health risk.