Thoughts on how Georgia and Alabama make roster cuts

[SoCal]

***Coach Mark Richt said Sunday that Baker had been dismissed.
Baker was arrested early Sunday in Athens and charged with DUI, underage possession of alcohol and improper driving. He is the 10th Georgia player to be arrested this year.

When asked if Baker's dismissal means Georgia has a new zero-tolerance policy on arrests, Richt said his players understand they ''need to behave, I'll put it that way.''

The 19-year-old Baker is a linebacker who has not played this season and did not travel with the team for Saturday night's 24-12 loss at Mississippi State.


***At least 12 times since coach Nick Saban took over the program in 2007, Alabama has offered players a "medical" scholarship, according to public statements made by the team. These scholarships, which are allowed under NCAA rules, are intended to make sure scholarship athletes who are too injured to play don't lose their financial aid. A player who receives one of these scholarships is finished playing with that team.

Three Alabama players who've taken these exemptions say they believe the team uses the practice as a way to clear spots for better players by cutting players it no longer wants. These players said they believe Mr. Saban and his staff pressure some players to take these scholarships even though their injuries aren't serious enough to warrant keeping them off the field.

"I'm still kind of bitter," said former Alabama linebacker Chuck Kirschman, who took a medical scholarship last year. Mr. Kirschman said Mr. Saban encouraged him to accept the scholarship because of a back problem that he believes he could have played through. "It's a business," Mr. Kirschman said. "College football is all about politics. And this is a loophole in the system."

[rawlingsHOH]

Saban is notorious for this.

[StoopTroup]

So Richt has someone take them out for drinks and Saban gives them the old Nancy Kerrigan?

:D

[stoopified]

So Richt has someone take them out for drinks and Saban gives them the old Nancy Kerrigan?

:D:D

[Frozen Sooner]

***At least 12 times since coach Nick Saban took over the program in 2007, Alabama has offered players a "medical" scholarship, according to public statements made by the team. These scholarships, which are allowed under NCAA rules, are intended to make sure scholarship athletes who are too injured to play don't lose their financial aid. A player who receives one of these scholarships is finished playing with that team.

Three Alabama players who've taken these exemptions say they believe the team uses the practice as a way to clear spots for better players by cutting players it no longer wants. These players said they believe Mr. Saban and his staff pressure some players to take these scholarships even though their injuries aren't serious enough to warrant keeping them off the field.

"I'm still kind of bitter," said former Alabama linebacker Chuck Kirschman, who took a medical scholarship last year. Mr. Kirschman said Mr. Saban encouraged him to accept the scholarship because of a back problem that he believes he could have played through. "It's a business," Mr. Kirschman said. "College football is all about politics. And this is a loophole in the system."

So you're not good enough to get on the field, but Saban finds a way to keep you on scholarship without making you go through the rigamarole of going to practice and such so you can focus on actually getting a degree, and that makes Nick Saban a bad guy?

I mean, I guess he could just cut you, if it's that terrible a deal.

[Leroy Lizard]

***At least 12 times since coach Nick Saban took over the program in 2007, Alabama has offered players a "medical" scholarship, according to public statements made by the team. These scholarships, which are allowed under NCAA rules, are intended to make sure scholarship athletes who are too injured to play don't lose their financial aid. A player who receives one of these scholarships is finished playing with that team.

Three Alabama players who've taken these exemptions say they believe the team uses the practice as a way to clear spots for better players by cutting players it no longer wants. These players said they believe Mr. Saban and his staff pressure some players to take these scholarships even though their injuries aren't serious enough to warrant keeping them off the field.

"I'm still kind of bitter," said former Alabama linebacker Chuck Kirschman, who took a medical scholarship last year. Mr. Kirschman said Mr. Saban encouraged him to accept the scholarship because of a back problem that he believes he could have played through. "It's a business," Mr. Kirschman said. "College football is all about politics. And this is a loophole in the system."

It beats the old days, when DKR would give you a need for a medical scholarship (but would never actually give you one).

[delhalew]

So you're not good enough to get on the field, but Saban finds a way to keep you on scholarship without making you go through the rigamarole of going to practice and such so you can focus on actually getting a degree, and that makes Nick Saban a bad guy?

I mean, I guess he could just cut you, if it's that terrible a deal.

It's him and Hitler against the world.

[XingTheRubicon]

DKKKR, back in the day, would literally mutilate some of his less talented recruiting misfires, until they quit.



Shaw also recounts sadistic hazing rituals, finagling to assure passing grades for starters, and tough courses and lack of medical attention to discourage unwanted sixth-teamers. Shaw characterizes Royal as an unfeeling tyrant who, once he had recruited a player, could care less about him if he was not contributing to winning. In one passage he quotes Royal saying he may treat Shaw "like a white man" if Shaw keeps practicing hard.

http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/print?oid=522343

[TXBOOMER]

Does anybody know how many we have given? I guess I have no problem with it as long as it is within the rules.

[XingTheRubicon]

all of our recruits work out and we hug them each night before they go to bed

[Leroy Lizard]

So you're not good enough to get on the field, but Saban finds a way to keep you on scholarship without making you go through the rigamarole of going to practice and such so you can focus on actually getting a degree, and that makes Nick Saban a bad guy?

I mean, I guess he could just cut you, if it's that terrible a deal.

I agree with Froze. Maybe this should be standard practice. The NCAA would be fine with it since it shows a deeper commitment to the athlete.

How would this figure into graduation rates?

[goingoneight]

I don't think Nick's a big, bad guy if he leaves you an opportunity to stay in school. A lot of these bitter kids don't realize it's a privelege to be there to begin with and had they not shined on HS film, they probably never would have a chance at a college education, let alone a chance to star on the football team.

[Sabanball]

You are referring to the Wall Street Journal article that came out this past week.

Let me remind you that this practice is not against any NCAA rules, and the co-author of the article, Darren Everson, even admitted that this goes on widely, not just at Alabama or in the SEC, but across the country, in a radio interview earlier this week. There is this to consider also--What would happen if Saban had allowed this player in question to go ahead and play and as a result he had aggravated or made worse the injury that he had been diagnosed with by team medical personnel? The coaches and university are simply not going to take that risk, both for the good of the player and for obvious liability reasons.

As has been mentioned, the player is still given the opportunity to get an education that is paid for and still allowed to maintain affiliation with the university. If anything, I would think most players in this situation would be thankful for this provision, and I would argue that most are. The player in question, Charlie Kirschman, obviously had an axe to grind and I wouldn't doubt it at all if he initiated the genesis of this whole story coming to print as a way to 'get back' at Coach Saban and UA. Usually disgruntled people are where these things start and once they get a reporter that needs a headline, presto, you have a story like this.

[bluedogok]

Many guys have a hard time admitting to themselves that they just aren't as good as they think they are....which they probably learned from their parents. So they look for others to blame instead of admitting that they failed at something.

[Leroy Lizard]

You are referring to the Wall Street Journal article that came out this past week.

Let me remind you that this practice is not against any NCAA rules, and the author of the article even admitted that this goes on widely, not just at Alabama or in the SEC, but across the country, in a radio interview earlier this week.

I'm not even sure it's within the NCAA's jurisdiction. The player is no longer on the team. He is no longer going to play. What business is it of the NCAA's whether the university gives him a scholarship to allow him to stay in school? Not sure.

Now, if the school tries to entice a recruit to join the team by discussing the possibility of a medical scholarship if the player doesn't cut it, that would be a different matter. The average student cannot get a medical scholarship, so to me that would be a promise of extra benefits.

[Sabanball]

Here's the article...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703384204575509901468451306.html

[thesnowbishop]

Beat me to the article. The question is, does this yield a competitive advantage at a cost to academic achievement. According to the article, not exactly. Is it slimy, hell yes. Does greyshirting and med cutting need a severe consideration at the next NCAA meeting...hell yes.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm not even sure it's within the NCAA's jurisdiction. The player is no longer on the team. He is no longer going to play. What business is it of the NCAA's whether the university gives him a scholarship to allow him to stay in school? Not sure.

Now, if the school tries to entice a recruit to join the team by discussing the possibility of a medical scholarship if the player doesn't cut it, that would be a different matter. The average student cannot get a medical scholarship, so to me that would be a promise of extra benefits.

It is not within the NCAA's purview to decide whether a kid can get a scholarship. It is, however, to determine whether that scholarship will be counted towards the 85-man roster limit.

[fadada1]

So you're not good enough to get on the field, but Saban finds a way to keep you on scholarship without making you go through the rigamarole of going to practice and such so you can focus on actually getting a degree, and that makes Nick Saban a bad guy?

I mean, I guess he could just cut you, if it's that terrible a deal.

no, it just means nick saban, in an indirect fashion, extorts money from the university of alabama. i broke my arm a year before i graduated from OU - that would've been a nice "prize" from david boren.

[Frozen Sooner]

no, it just means nick saban, in an indirect fashion, extorts money from the university of alabama. i broke my arm a year before i graduated from OU - that would've been a nice "prize" from david boren.

Remind me to be upset about this extortion when my scholarship gets taken away to pay for it. Since I'm going here for free, I can't really complain about some scrub getting his way paid.