More mediocre defense under Brent Venables

[engineer24]

I'm sorry guys, but its time for him to seek life elsewhere or add a co-DC.

To compete for national championships it is IMPERATIVE that you have an ELITE level defense. Not just good, but elite.

Since Mike Stoops left, Brent Venables defense has been mediocre. Yes, he had a stud defense unit last year, but thats only 1 year out of 7. 2004-2010 has 1 year of elite defenses and 6 years of mediocre defenses.

Right now we're ranked #97 in total defense. No, we wont end up that bad in the final rankings but I would bet money that we wont end up any higher than 50th.

At OU that should be unacceptable. Under BV, our average defense ranking at the end of the year is usually in the #30-#60 range. In other words, very mediocre and incapable of winning a national championship.

Out of all the teams that have won a BCS NC, ALL of them had total defenses ranked #15 or lower. Thats not a fluke. You need an ELITE level defense to win an NC game and BV has shown that he cant provide that at OU.

[Collier11]

welp, here we go

[possumfat]

Bully !!

[engineer24]

Another thing I've noticed is that BV's defenses generally dont tackle well. A few weeks ago I watched some of the games from the 2000 and 2001 seasons and I'm struck by how our defensive unit almost NEVER missed a tackle. Now its routine for guys to attempt arm tackles and miss.

I get the impression that in the early years of Stoops he was focused less on schemes and more on fundamentals. I remember him sayign something to the effect of how he wasnt sure how good of a defense he could build in 1-2 years so thats why he went after a shotgun passing QB like Josh Heupel.

Have we forgotten to emphasize the basics? If you cant tackle, then putting in fancy schemes that D players have to make 50 reads on before the play starts just sets them up for disaster.

[sooner ngintunr]

:pop:

[agoo758]

This certainly isn't the most unreasonable thread in the world.....

[rawlingsHOH]

Starting 2 freshman and a bunch of sophomores. This defense is going to improve. When, I'm not sure.

[Sooner04]

The table is set for great things from this defense. We'll know a lot more about them this Saturday. The key is we're getting poor play (linebacker) from the spot where you have to get great play for BV's defense to succeed.

The trick is to never get pissed until AFTER you lose a game.

[the_sooners_abide]

Last I checked, we're 4-0 and didn't get pounded by UCLA like "the world's greatest defense coached by the world's greatest defensive coordinator." When is a win going to be enough to satisfy the fans?

[OKC-SLC]

can we just merge the BV sucks threads into one big uberthread and then sticky it so i don't have to weed thru them all? TIA.

[bluedogok]

Central Michigan is ranked 18 in Total Defense but they are 2-2.....
I will take 4-0 any day over a higher ranking in any stat.

Could they improve, damn straight and I hope they do but throwing rankings like that out there after 3 or 4 games is pretty worthless. OU has had some of the top ranked offenses and defenses at times and what did it get them? In 2003 they were #1 in Total Offense and #3 in Total Defense.


Watch any level of football and the "fundamentals" are pretty poor, you can thank the ESPN highlight culture for a bunch of that. The fact that coaches in the younger years don't focus on training players, they focus on winning games because that is what parents want. Pretty much like school in general, the spreadsheet tells them all they want to know, who gives a crap about a stable foundation.

[zeke]

good greif

[Leroy Lizard]

Another thing I've noticed is that BV's defenses generally dont tackle well.

That's on the position coaches.

[BoulderSooner79]

The subject of the thread is fine; it's just a waste of time. Can't we just number the BV threads and then go to the archives? Then we could create a thread titled "BV #17" and everyone could reply "+1".

[rawlingsHOH]

Another thing I've noticed is that BV's defenses generally dont tackle well.
The linebackers have usually tackled well for the past 10 years.

[engineer24]

Could they improve, damn straight and I hope they do but throwing rankings like that out there after 3 or 4 games is pretty worthless. OU has had some of the top ranked offenses and defenses at times and what did it get them? In 2003 they were #1 in Total Offense and #3 in Total Defense.

Yeah, and that was BY FAR the most competitive BCS champ game OU had been in other than the 2000 Orange Bowl. If you remember in that game, the offense sucked but the defense kept them in it. Also that was when Mike Stoops was still here (yes I know he accepted the job after the Big 12 champ game).

Compare that to 2004 when our defense was mediocre and we got *** raped by USC.

Mike Stoops fielded elite level defenses (2000, 2001, 2002, 2003) in most of the years he was here; ever since BV has taken over he has only had one elite defense (2009). All other years have been mediocre at best.

I'll take a #1 defense and a #50 offense any day over a #1 offense and #50 defense.

[rawlingsHOH]

Yeah, and that was BY FAR the most competitive BCS champ game OU had been in other than the 2000 Orange Bowl. If you remember in that game, the offense sucked but the defense kept them in it. Also that was when Mike Stoops was still here (yes I know he accepted the job after the Big 12 champ game).

Compare that to 2004 when our defense was mediocre and we got *** raped by USC.

Mike Stoops fielded elite level defenses (2000, 2001, 2002, 2003) in most of the years he was here; ever since BV has taken over he has only had one elite defense (2009). All other years have been mediocre at best.

I'll take a #1 defense and a #50 offense any day over a #1 offense and #50 defense.

It was significantly easier to defend the offenses in the conference back then. We miss Mike, no doubt, but the answer is more in the middle.

[budbarrybob]

I always laugh at "arm" tackling as an excuse for poor play. I know of no circumstance that a player would just try to grab the opposing ball carrier with just his arms. Given a preference they would try to knock the uber crap out of the ball carrier and take him to the turf. Arm tackling is the result of over running the play, taking bad angles, catching up to the ball carrier or getting juked. None of those are really the fault of the DC.
I guess the only other reason for an "arm" tackle is fear or giving up and not trying hard. I'll let you tell Wort or T Lewis if you think it is that.

[adoniijahsooner]

Look at the 2008 defense and how they were giving up big plays all year until something clicked. That defense and this one have alot in common.....you know what it is? Big plays and turnovers. That defense just like this one forced alot of turnovers. This defense will be special.

[CrimsonRez]

I guess I am starting to see what people are talking about when they say BV has too much faith in his system. I don't know why we're blitzing 6 on 3rd and long with our DB's within 8 yards of the line. Any competent WR would know to check off his route and run right by our DB's which is exactly what happened a couple times. Thank god almighty that Jonathan Nelson has some heart otherwise I think we lose that game last night...just my take on things.

[Collier11]

Look at the 2008 defense and how they were giving up big plays all year until something clicked. That defense and this one have alot in common.....you know what it is? Big plays and turnovers. That defense just like this one forced alot of turnovers. This defense will be special.

tackling and discipline can be fixed, bad players and bad coaching cant. I think we will be fine, we will learn alot this weekend though

[rawlingsHOH]

I guess I am starting to see what people are talking about when they say BV has too much faith in his system. I don't know why we're blitzing 6 on 3rd and long with our DB's within 8 yards of the line. Any competent WR would know to check off his route and run right by our DB's which is exactly what happened a couple times. Thank god almighty that Jonathan Nelson has some heart otherwise I think we lose that game last night...just my take on things.

Because if we didn't blitz, we weren't getting any rush, and the QB was eventually going to find a guy open.

[CrimsonRez]

Because if we didn't blitz, we weren't getting any rush, and the QB was eventually going to find a guy open.

But we're not getting a rush with them either thats the thing. If we were getting to the QB and making him take bad throws then I am all for it but we weren't, so I would much rather have them in coverage than getting blocked.

[Collier11]

We have to get to Gilbert this week, if we do we probably win by 10 or so, if we dont he will pick us apart

[StoopTroup]

I'm not sure but Mike Stoops hasn't won a National Title with his Defensive Prowness that I know of....matter of fact...I'm not sure he's won a Pac-10 Conference Championship either.

Of course Defense wins Championships.

[tommieharris91]

This thread is new, innovative, and full of originality.

[goingoneight]

Funny how a coach is great when guys are taking care of business and he sucks when he's got a young team that's prone to rookie mistakes. I thought Wort would be much farther along given how they all said he was challenging Box for the starting spot, and it turns out that's exactly what Wort was doing. Challenging. He's not where he needs to be yet, but he has the luxury of time. I don't see any NFL scouts predicting him leaving soon. We played a true freshman corner yesterday and three of OUr top four D-Linemen (Walker, Alexander and Taylor) are still battling injuries and were held to limited duties or some (Walker) none at all. The front seven makes all the difference in how the team plays. If UC's not running at will on us, that game's not even close.

Is it Kevin Wilson's fault that he calls a good play, a guy is wide open, the pass s just right and Kenney drops it? What if the QB runs right into a tckler instead of stepping up in the pocket?

Bottom line: OUr 4-0 team is FAR from perfect or even "scary" for that matter. But we've had a lot better teams before go into Dallas with a loss, so just keep rolling with it as this team continues to grow and hopefully continues to do what's most important (win).

[Collier11]

Exactly G08, with this team being so young and talented, id consider them more dangerous than in trouble. We just have to keep getting better. A win this weekend and a bye week will do wonders

[OKC-SLC]

i actually really like our defensive backs, particularly next yr or two. Linebackers haven't played real well, and I'm not sure we're actually fielding a D line. None of that is BV's fault. Players graduate/go to NFL/get injured/play better and worse than they're supposed to, etc.

[GKeeper316]

if not this year, then next year we'll be scary good. pre-season #1

[TUSooner]

This thread is new, innovative, and full of originality.

Like a Venables defense.

[TUSooner]

***
Bottom line: OUr 4-0 team is FAR from perfect or even "scary" for that matter......
I dunno, they scared me plenty on Saturday.

[Leroy Lizard]

Is it Kevin Wilson's fault that he calls a good play, a guy is wide open, the pass s just right and Kenney drops it? What if the QB runs right into a tckler instead of stepping up in the pocket?

Another example was on 3rd and about 7 when he called a screen to DM. The WR simply missed the block and DM got stuff. If the WR does his job, who knows how much yardage DM would have chewed off.

The WR knew he blew the play too, judging by his reactions. But what did we hear in the game thread? Bad call! Bad call! WTF? Why throw the screen?

[Collier11]

most statements by sports fans are surface statements, they dont actually take the time to see why there were issues

[SoonerPr8r]

I have noticed that the majority of this thread is populated by red spek

[ashley]

It was significantly easier to defend the offenses in the conference back then. We miss Mike, no doubt, but the answer is more in the middle.
Well I will be damn, someone got it right. Finally.

[TXBOOMER]

if not this year, then next year we'll be scary good. pre-season #1

I hope you are right. I can't see it considering we won't have Broyles or Murray. They are pretty much the sum of the playmakers on offense that I am aware of. Hopefully some of these others will step it up.

[Leroy Lizard]

I hope you are right. I can't see it considering we won't have Broyles or Murray. They are pretty much the sum of the playmakers on offense that I am aware of.

Jones?

[Crucifax Autumn]

My only real complaint is tackling.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

2002 was an elite level defense?

[PLaw]

That's on the position coaches.

Hey, Double L - 9.000th post - kudos for the tenacity.

BOOMER

[TXBOOMER]

Jones?

My point is who will the big playmakers be? Landry is a good QB. He isn't someone that is going to run around and make people miss and make a big play out of nothing.

[tulsaoilerfan]

2002 was an elite level defense?

Rashaun Woods is still wide open

[PLaw]

Exactly G08, with this team being so young and talented, id consider them more dangerous than in trouble. We just have to keep getting better. A win this weekend and a bye week will do wonders

Yep, I remember a lot of Switzer's teams that struggled early until the bone got greased, but they continued to improve week to week. By the end of the season, they were the best team in the country.

Here's to a 5-0, 1-0 start.

BOOMER

[cccasooner2]

Rashaun Woods is still wide open

That was Hyble's fault IIRC.