Wilson's challenge:

[MikeInNorman]

Can Kevin Wilson keep OU in the NC hunt with a non-Heisman quality QB?

In the Stoops era, there have been 3 Heisman quality QBs: Heupel, White, and Bradford. OU offensive coordinators Mangino, Long, and Wilson each took offenses led by these Heisman winners and near-winner to the NC game.

At the same time, OU has had three starting QBs who were most assuredly NOT Heisman-level: Hybl, Bomar, and Thompson. Now, each of those guys had things to recommend them, and had some good solid games as Sooners and successes in Conference championship and/or bowl games. But no one with eyes can dispute that there is a substantial performance difference between the Heismans and the NOTs. And none of the NOTs ever had their teams in serious NC discussion.

In other words, a Stoops team has never been a serious NC contender without a Heisman level QB.

So far, Landry Jones seems to be in the NOT category. That doesn't mean he's a bad QB by any means, just that he's a lot closer to Hybl than Bradford, at least so far, and that is a bad omen for NC contention in the Stoops era.

SEC teams seem to contend all the time with mediocre QB play (see, Alabama, 2009). So it can be done. OU just hasn't done it.

Like it or not, OU fans expect to be in the NC conversation every year. Can Wilson break the trend?

[rawlingsHOH]

That a trick question?

If OU wins all of it's games, Landry will be a Heisman contender by default.

[MikeInNorman]

That a trick question?

Not really. There are ways to go undefeated and/or win the NC in modern college football without having spectacular QB play. We just haven't figured out any of them.

[rawlingsHOH]

Not really. There are ways to go undefeated and/or win the NC in modern college football without having spectacular QB play. We just haven't figured out any of them.
Funny thing is, they have found ways to turn unspectacular QBs (Heupel/White) into Heisman winners/contenders.

You are selling the coaching staff short, way short.

[proudsoonergal]

FIRE VENABLES!!!!!


Oh, wrong thread?

[oudavid1]

That a trick question?

If OU wins all of it's games, Landry will be a Heisman contender by default.

I stopped reading when i saw this reason. Great point Rawlings!!!

[Mark_in_Tulsa]

Section 34 needs to stand up and cheer louder if we are going to expect Landry to win the Heisman.

[Breadburner]

We dont seem to play as well when we dont yell SOONER at the end of the anthem....:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Sooner-N-KS]

What do you expect Landry to do when Ronnell is stuck on the sideline?

[Soonermagik]

News flash: Wilson doesn't take the field.

Jones does control the destiny of this team, but that's on him. He has to play smart and not get flustered. I'll stand by my original prediction that this team loses one game. I still think this squad looks like they can play in a BCS game.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Funny thing is, they have found ways to turn unspectacular QBs (Heupel/White) into Heisman winners/contenders.

You are selling the coaching staff short, way short.

you know, this has always been my biggest issue with your analysis. you discredit people who know how to play the game because they aren't as physically talented at the next guy. heupel in my opinion was the most spectacular QB i've ever seen. no player in recent memory elevated the play of the players around him more than he did.

[rawlingsHOH]

you know, this has always been my biggest issue with your analysis. you discredit people who know how to play the game because they aren't as physically talented at the next guy. heupel in my opinion was the most spectacular QB i've ever seen. no player in recent memory elevated the play of the players around him more than he did.
Yep, I definitely prefer the NFL style of evaluating true talent, using physical skills.

In my life, I'm going to draft the guy with the 95 mph fastball, because if you reach for the 88, and he fails, you're fired.

[Tigeman]

What KW needs to do is manage Jones to where he doesn't lose the game for us like he did @ Nebraska last year. You can win the NCG w/ a serviceable QB, as long as he doesn't lose it for you. Example, Bama last year!

[StoopTroup]

If Jason White was Heisman Caliber....why didn't he win it twice?
















;)

[rawlingsHOH]

You can win the NCG w/ a serviceable QB, as long as he doesn't lose it for you. Example, Bama last year!
With a fantastic defense.

[StoopTroup]

I guarantee you this....

You won't hear Josh, Nate, Jason, Paul or Sam asking a question like MikeInNorman's. Everyone of them are humble and everyone of them know how they got to the level they did. Winning a Heisman is definitely something special but everyone of those guys who either won or was recognized with a trip to NY will never say they were Heisman caliber. They will tell you how blessed they were to compete at the Div IA Level and play at OU.

Landry isn't any different than any one of them IMO.

Great guy....great attitude.

[goingoneight]

Paul Thompson was one horrible call at Oregon away from playing for a National Championship I might add. Also, Nate Hybl was two late-game defensive meltdowns away from playing for it in both 2001 and 2002.

Landry's two picks have come in a game where he admittedly didn't play well. Everyone knows and acknowledges this. You can fault Landry for those two picks as much as you can fault Sam for his two against Florida. LJ's first pick BOUNCED OFF OF THE GROUND AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN REVIEWED and his second was deflected up for grabs. Given his play that night, saying he was picked twice is probably fair to say. But still, remember he didn't just make a poor read or an errant throw either time.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Yep, I definitely prefer the NFL style of evaluating true talent, using physical skills.

In my life, I'm going to draft the guy with the 95 mph fastball, because if you reach for the 88, and he fails, you're fired.

that philosophy in college football will ruin a program. look at miami, look at florida state, look at USC. we have been blessed that we have mack brown down south taking all the top recruits and FORCING us to SETTLE for guys like ryan broyles.

[Collier11]

YEP, CFB is far different than Pro Football.

[instigator]

that philosophy in college football will ruin a program. look at miami, look at florida state, look at USC. we have been blessed that we have mack brown down south taking all the top recruits and FORCING us to SETTLE for guys like ryan broyles.

I think this is dead on. Look at programs like Boise. Those guys are lucky to get 3 star recruits and their playmakers got like one other scholarship offer besides BSU and they compete every time they play a big program. Our 2000 team had incredible players, but how many of them were 5 star recruits. I'd rather have guys that can be coached up than a team of 5 star prima donnas.

[BoulderSooner79]

YEP, CFB is far different than Pro Football.

And that's a good thing. If I wanted to watch a game just like the pros, I'd watch, well, the pros. Pryor and tOSU wouldn't be on the radar in a pro style game.

[goingoneight]

Air Force had a bunch of non-5-star guys, too. It's a total crapshoot about that kinda stuff. If you play the right team, your lack of size, strength or talent eventually will get you beat just like the Miamis, FSUs ans USCs' lack of will to win, smarts and "swagger" will get them beat by the classic underdogs.

When your program begins to win, it's best for the longevity of success to recruit size, strength, etc. while still keeping your eyes wide open for Sam Bradfords, Mark Claytons and Quentin Griffins.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Air Force had a bunch of non-5-star guys, too. It's a total crapshoot about that kinda stuff. If you play the right team, your lack of size, strength or talent eventually will get you beat just like the Miamis, FSUs ans USCs' lack of will to win, smarts and "swagger" will get them beat by the classic underdogs.

When your program begins to win, it's best for the longevity of success to recruit size, strength, etc. while still keeping your eyes wide open for Sam Bradfords, Mark Claytons and Quentin Griffins.

air force's biggest problem is OL and DL. because of the nature of the school, they are never going to be able to go out and recruit the 300 pounders. its a huge liability that more than compensates for the advantages the service academies get over the rest of college football -> ie 85 man limit doesn't apply.

that one little running back from georgia would have been a starter for us or texas.

[rawlingsHOH]

that philosophy in college football will ruin a program. look at miami, look at florida state, look at USC. we have been blessed that we have mack brown down south taking all the top recruits and FORCING us to SETTLE for guys like ryan broyles.

Everything is cyclical, but I'm staring at NINE national titles in the last 25 years! ?? Not sure your point came across.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Everything is cyclical, but I'm staring at NINE national titles in the last 25 years! ?? Not sure your point came across.

actually the point comes across perfectly -> you win national titles with guys you'd count as scrubs. at the point you win a title you "upgrade your talent". the upgrades stay 3 years max. the teams fall into mediocrity.

early entrants are the biggest problem with sustaining a winning team.

[rawlingsHOH]

actually the point comes across perfectly -> you win national titles with guys you'd count as scrubs. at the point you win a title you "upgrade your talent". the upgrades stay 3 years max. the teams fall into mediocrity.

early entrants are the biggest problem with sustaining a winning team.

Disagree entirely. Lack of talent and poor coaching.

Top programs are continuously losing more early entries than weak programs, yet they stay on top, as they are reloading from within. Success breeds success.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

actually the point comes across perfectly -> you win national titles with guys you'd count as scrubs. at the point you win a title you "upgrade your talent". the upgrades stay 3 years max. the teams fall into mediocrity.

early entrants are the biggest problem with sustaining a winning team.

I assume you speak of Asher Clark...great back

[stoops the eternal pimp]

BTW, in today's game, I would have to agree with jkm on his point.

Used to NFL brass was big on how much experience a kid got in the college ranks...They could care less anymore..

So you can't redshirt your more talented players because if you do, your gonna get 2 years of PT from them and their gone..

[rawlingsHOH]

I assume you speak of Asher Clark...great back
I'd take Demarco over him 10 times out of 10.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

not in their offense I wouldnt

[rawlingsHOH]

BTW, in today's game, I would have to agree with jkm on his point.

Used to NFL brass was big on how much experience a kid got in the college ranks...They could care less anymore..

So you can't redshirt your more talented players because if you do, your gonna get 2 years of PT from them and their gone..

Check who wins and plays for championships. Sorry, but their the same schools who are losing early entries.

[oumartin]

Here's a challenge to wilson, Call something different. Anyone watch Arkansas. Petrino has a playbook now. If he had more talented players that team would be uber dangerous.

[StoopTroup]

OMG....we're doomed.

And if we're doomed....arkansas is completely screwed even with a playbook.

[rawlingsHOH]

not in their offense I wouldnt
Irrelevent.

You said he'd start at OU.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Irrelevent.

You said he'd start at OU.

Where did I say that?

[rawlingsHOH]

other said... sorry

that one little running back from georgia would have been a starter for us or texas

when you are arguing 1 on 2, it gets hard to differentiate.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Im not arguing with you dude..


I don't know why you get on your high horse to think you know so much more than everybody else and your opinions are fact and everybody else is wrong...

so anyway I m not arguing with you, I just agreed with jkm..

[StoopTroup]

Tell him to sit down.

[rawlingsHOH]

Im not arguing with you dude..


I don't know why you get on your high horse to think you know so much more than everybody else and your opinions are fact and everybody else is wrong...

so anyway I m not arguing with you, I just agreed with jkm..

Because in this case, I'm not arguing opinion, I'm stating fact. Championship level programs are constantly losing early entries, yet continue to sustain their winning. Hell, look at the OU/Florida NCG. Both those teams lost multiple guys prior to that season.

And pot-meet-kettle telling me I think I know everything. LOL!

[StoopTroup]

As long as he stays with fact....nobody around here should even have to post.

[Collier11]

I think the real issue is that no matter how good or how bad we have been in the last 10 years, mostly good btw, we run a no risk, efficient, pro style offense. Problem is, when we face a Def as good as our off, we struggle due to lack of creativity

[StoopTroup]

:D

jz-GVy8EBdc&feature=related

[Collier11]

LOVER

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Because in this case, I'm not arguing opinion, I'm stating fact. Championship level programs are constantly losing early entries, yet continue to sustain their winning. Hell, look at the OU/Florida NCG. Both those teams lost multiple guys prior to that season.

And pot-meet-kettle telling me I think I know everything. LOL!

usually when someone disagrees with something I say, I'll mention that I can see their PoV and have told many that in the end, they are right...i don't know everything...


I pointed out you said you had combine numbers on someone who didnt go...thats not opinion that someone didnt go, thats fact, so your supposed numbers were made up. All opinions are pretty much up for debate however..

OU did lose Reggie Smith, Kelly, and Lofton early..Think them leaving early didn't effect that team?

Florida lost Harvey early...hmmm

[StoopTroup]

I remember when FSU lost Snoop Minus and that was the reason we beat them....LOL

[rawlingsHOH]

I pointed out you said you had combine numbers on someone who didnt go...thats not opinion that someone didnt go, thats fact, so your supposed numbers were made up. All opinions are pretty much up for debate however..

Um, no, actually I said I DIDN'T have the combine numbers. But recalled PT threw about 55 mph, (and after researching it online he threw 54.8, lol), and believed Hybl had similar ball speed as Thompson. Nothing about Hybl at the combine.



OU did lose Reggie Smith, Kelly, and Lofton early..Think them leaving early didn't effect that team?

Florida lost Harvey early...hmmm
Of course it effected the teams. But the fact remains OU and UF still played for a championship. The bets programs are often hit with early entries yet continue winning. Fact.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

According to Coach Foghorn Leghorn, he shoulda, I say he shoulda been going to class

[rawlingsHOH]

I remember when FSU lost Snoop Minus and that was the reason we beat them....LOL
He was overrated. I'll take Walker and Boldin.

[StoopTroup]

He was overrated. I'll take Walker and Boldin.

Take who you want but it was Snoop being MIA that lost them that game. :rolleyes:

[stoops the eternal pimp]

its still opinion because it has more to deal with programs falling off than you think...Bradford left early..Gresham...McCoy...any effect on this season?

Of course..it changes things a lot...your argument has a lot of validity though

So anyway Im through now...It appears somebody doesn't like you btw

[rawlingsHOH]

its still opinion because it has more to deal with programs falling off than you think...Bradford left early..Gresham...McCoy...any effect on this season?

Of course..it changes things a lot...your argument has a lot of validity though
Big effect! But not nearly as big as if we had crappy players, crappy coaches, and everyone returning.



So anyway Im through now...It appears somebody doesn't like you btw
I'm glad!! I've always been better as a heel.

[Leroy Lizard]

He was overrated. I'll take Walker and Boldin.

Naturally, I have a different take: FSU didn't lose Snoop Minnis. He shouldn't have been on the team in the first place.

[Collier11]

and I stir shizz up, lol

[stoops the eternal pimp]

man I got too much sun yesterday...friggin headache and throwing up...

[Collier11]

throwing up, wow...I have felt bad off n on today, that heat was a beotch

[stoops the eternal pimp]

too dang dehydrated...Im still deciding on eating breakfast today

[Collier11]

maybe eating it twice, lol...blaht