WE'RE NUMBER 5!

[Okla-homey]

in a very crappy way.

Folks, I know I rant about this a couple times a year, but we have got to figure out some way to turn this around.

Too many social ills arise directly from this problem. When kids have kids, those kids are very likely to end up locked in a cycle of never ending poverty, do badly in school, eventually drop out, have kids too soon themselves, and too often end up in our prisons which are already busting at the seams.

I just wish there was some way of championing this anti-teen birth cause without alienating folks or being branded a genocidal maniac.


Oklahoma's teen birth rate fifth-highest in U.S.

By GINNIE GRAHAM World Staff Writer
Published: 9/16/2010 3:16 AM
Last Modified: 9/16/2010 5:57 AM

The number of teen girls giving birth in Oklahoma in 2008 was more than double the number of female freshmen entering the University of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State University that fall semester, according to a recent data analysis.

Oklahoma's teen birth rates rose between 2005 and 2007, moving up a notch to the fifth highest in the country, according to the Oklahoma Institute for Child Advocacy.

The nonprofit organization has been analyzing data released by the National Vital Statistics earlier this year to break down and compare rates and numbers to other states, said Sharon Rodine, director of youth initiatives for the group.

"This is 100 percent preventable," Rodine said. "Oklahoma is not doing much at all to address teen pregnancy in any area. Other states are getting there, especially in Southern states. This is not a race we want to win."

The largest increase is among Oklahoma's 18- to 19-year-olds, which jumped from the sixth-highest pregnancy rate for that age group to second, behind Mississippi.

Oklahoma's rate is 111.5 births per 1,000 in that age range, compared with the national rate of 73.9.

The birth rate for 15- to 17-year-olds remains the sixth-highest in the country at 30.4 births per 1,000. The national rate is 22.1.

"We have twice as many teens giving birth than incoming freshmen at our two major flagship universities," Rodine said. "That alone shows you we are headed in the wrong direction. It's a magnet issue. It links to so many other issues.

"This is a direct path to high school dropouts, a direct path to unemployment and a direct path to poverty. This is not Oklahoma's path to prosperity."

The state's teen births and rates between 1991 and 2005 had shown slow but steady declines. The trend reversed in 2006 with a 12 percent increase in births.

Nationally, teen births rose by 5 percent since 2006.

"We made a dramatic reversal in the good declines we were seeing for 15 previous years," Rodine said. "The community has to decide this is an important piece of a young person's education."

Legislative and agency budget cuts in the past two years have eliminated some teen pregnancy prevention programs in the state and services to teen parents.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have about 50 education programs it recommends to address preventing teen pregnancy, Rodine said.

The programs are not sex talks, she said.

Curbing teen pregnancy includes working on decision-making skills, career and life planning, negotiation skills, self-esteem, relationship building and understanding consequences.

"The conversation needs to expand," Rodine said. "There are a lot of issues related to helping unplanned and too-early pregnancies and parenting.

"We need a strong message to young people that finishing their education is important followed by training for a career. Then, your best chance for success is starting a family after your education."

By law, schools must address HIV and AIDS, and many will include sexually transmitted diseases. But most are skittish to offer anything beyond that.

School boards, parent-teacher associations, youth development programs and religious congregations are necessary partners in a community-wide program to curb teen pregnancies, Rodine said.

"There is a role for everyone," Rodine said. "We need caring and nurturing adults in every young person's life - adults to share information and adults young people trust to talk with to get the guidance they need. We also need to work with and through young people themselves. Young people can be the prevention messenger."

Some groups are more vulnerable to choices leading to teen pregnancy, such as abused and neglected children or children in generational poverty.

"Let's start looking at the data and understand where we need to begin in investing more resources," Rodine said. "Our state needs to look at this as a priority and begin with areas or populations with the highest numbers of teen births and rates."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Teen birth rate rankings
State, rate (per 1,000):


•Mississippi, 71


•New Mexico, 66.1


•Texas, 64.2


•Arkansas, 61.7


•Oklahoma, 61.5


•Arizona, 61.2


•Tennessee, 56.2


•Louisiana, 55.9


•Nevada, 55.3


•Kentucky 55.11


National average: 42.5

Source: Oklahoma Institute for Child Advocacy

Original Print Headline: Okla. now No. 5 for high teen birth rate


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ginnie Graham 581-8376
[email protected] By GINNIE GRAHAM World Staff Writer

[MR2-Sooner86]

Stop telling them sex is evil and teach them about birth control and how to use it.

Could it be that here in the buckle of the Bible Belt where "sex is bad and if you do it before you're married you're going to Hell" and high teen pregnancy could have a link?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

One thing I find interesting is the more liberal states do better. Is that because they actually promote more than just abstinence. Plus most of those states are boring so probably just have sex a lot

[Okla-homey]

Stop telling them sex is evil and teach them about birth control and how to use it.

Could it be that here in the buckle of the Bible Belt where "sex is bad and if you do it before you're married you're going to Hell" and high teen pregnancy could have a link?

I'd buy the rubbers myself if I thought they'd use 'em. Or at least contribute to a trust that funds free depo shots to any teen girl who wanted one.

I think its something else. I sometimes think poor girls want a child so they can have something that is "theirs," that will love them unconditionally and can't (easily) be taken from them. We must somehow disabuse them of that notion. It's indisputably a recipe for disaster.

[MR2-Sooner86]

I'd buy the rubbers myself if I thought they'd use 'em. Or at least contribute to a trust that funds free depo shots to any teen girl who wanted one.

When I worked at the grocery store a couple years back I remember they stopped stocking condoms. I asked why and they said they were shoplifted so much it was pointless to carry them. Kids were so embarrassed to buy rubbers they's rather risk stealing them than buying them.

[Okla-homey]

When I worked at the grocery store a couple years back I remember they stopped stocking condoms. I asked why and they said they were shoplifted so much it was pointless to carry them. Kids were so embarrassed to buy rubbers they's rather risk stealing them than buying them.

I guess that's why all "Loves" still have rubber vending machines in the mens. QT sells 'em, near the batteries, up front at the register.

[yermom]

sex ed and free condoms with your textbooks ;)

[goingoneight]

I'll bet QT never sells 'em if people are too embarassed to get 'em in a store. :D

[Fraggle145]

Stop telling them sex is evil and teach them about birth control and how to use it.

Could it be that here in the buckle of the Bible Belt where "sex is bad and if you do it before you're married you're going to Hell" and high teen pregnancy could have a link?

This.

And its a lot harder to have an abortion or get the morning after pill in Oklahoma than in NY... Just sayin'

[Leroy Lizard]

The problem is deep: You are asking people to sell out their religious/moral principles. "Pre-marital sex is a sin! But here is a condom so that you can engage in pre-marital sex if you wish with no consequences."

They're not going to do that, nor should we expect them to.

Don't spek me; I'm just the messenger.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

What I like is the blind connection between teaching abstinence and self-worth and some raving bible-thumping rage against sin.

They do NOT walk hand in hand.

[Fraggle145]

What I like is the blind connection between teaching abstinence and self-worth and some raving bible-thumping rage against sin.

They do NOT walk hand in hand.

That depends...

teaching abstinence and self-worth doesnt necessarily walk hand-in-hand with some raving bible-thumping rage against sin.

some raving bible-thumping rage against sin always walks hand-in-hand with teaching abstinence (not necessarily self-worth at least in my observation).

[Fraggle145]

The problem is deep: You are asking people to sell out their religious/moral principles. "Pre-marital sex is a sin! But here is a condom so that you can engage in pre-marital sex if you wish with no consequences."

They're not going to do that, nor should we expect them to.

Don't spek me; I'm just the messenger.

Then we should continue to expect to pay for a bunch of unwanted children or children that are impossible to pay for...

[Viking Kitten]

Have you ever talked to the advocates of abstinence only education? I have. Believe me. There's a connection. Now a different story is those who promote abstinence while also making sure teens have access to facts and information to help them make informed decisions and healthy choices. Those programs actually work, but here in Oklahoma, we've cut their funding. Typical.

[badger]

I blame the men.








;)

[Viking Kitten]

Also worth pointing out... we're dealing with some cultural barriers here in Oklahoma that will make it difficult to reduce the teen birth rate. I've run into a lot of Mexican families that don't see a pregnant 14 year old as all that big of deal. A lot of anglos don't either, I see a lot of young women who don't really think beyond (maybe) getting out of high school, getting a man and getting knocked up. If that's the accepted norm in the environment girls are growing up in, all the sex education in the world isn't going to stop them.

[Leroy Lizard]

Then we should continue to expect to pay for a bunch of unwanted children or children that are impossible to pay for...

Yep. Having high moral standards does come at a price. If it was easy, it probably wouldn't be high on the list of morals.

[Leroy Lizard]

Also worth pointing... out we're dealing with some cultural barriers here in Oklahoma that will make it difficult to reduce the teen birth rate. I've run into a lot of Mexican families that don't see a pregnant 14 year old as all that big of deal. A lot of anglos don't either, I see a lot of young women who don't really think beyond (maybe) getting out of high school, getting a man and getting knocked up. If that's the accepted norm in the environment girls are growing up in, all the sex education in the world isn't going to stop them.

I think Mexican families have similar attitudes about illegitimate children; the fact that many of them think women should bear as many children as they can is where the cultures collide.

Most of the people in my church have around two kids. I think that is probably well under the average number of children at the nearby Catholic church. But I haven't counted.

[Breadburner]

Can you break it down by race........???????

[badger]

I wonder why it's always the SEC states and us, with a dash a few other southern states that always make these undesirable lists.

[Leroy Lizard]

Break it down by race and see what you get.

[47straight]

Teen birth rate, and not unmarried teen birth rate?

Pretty sly.

[Fraggle145]

Yep. Having high moral standards does come at a price. If it was easy, it probably wouldn't be high on the list of morals.

Ahhh you and your double standards. You are the most twofaced SOB on this board. Keep arguing out of both sides of your mouth.

[Chuck Bao]

I really don't want to ever think about teenagers and sex. That is just too awful to contemplate. But, I guess they do and nothing is going to change that. They need an education, even if it is so horrible to think about. They need self esteem and the alternative of a university degree and a good job and the promise of a much better life style for them and their children.

[Leroy Lizard]

Ahhh you and your double standards. You are the most twofaced SOB on this board. Keep arguing out of both sides of your mouth.

Somehow my recent post must violate something I posted earlier. Not sure how, though.

[Leroy Lizard]

I really don't want to ever think about teenagers and sex. That is just too awful to contemplate. But, I guess they do and nothing is going to change that. They need an education, even if it is so horrible to think about.

Sarcasm gone bad.

[Peach Fuzz]

Growing up catholic, I've noticed a LOT of mexican births in my grade (08) for them it seems that the more children the better the check you get from the govt. I don't understand why a mom doesn't consider 7$ a month for birth control vs. 30,000$ the first year... society is ****ed and the sad thing is they're isn't an end in sight... birth control, I love you :)

[Chuck Bao]

Sarcasm gone bad.

That wasn't meant as sarcasm. If anything, internet message boards have taught me a few things - distance yourself as far from teenagers as possible and never bother to offer teenagers advice because they won't listen anyway.

As far as immature non-teenagers...well...I haven't found a way around them yet.

[TUSooner]

Yep. Having high moral standards does come at a price. If it was easy, it probably wouldn't be high on the list of morals.

How admirable that you are always willing to maintain your "high moral standards" (and holy relationship with God) no matter how much others suffer.

[starclassic tama]

Stop telling them sex is evil and teach them about birth control and how to use it.

Could it be that here in the buckle of the Bible Belt where "sex is bad and if you do it before you're married you're going to Hell" and high teen pregnancy could have a link?

ding ding ding we have a winner!

[Tulsa_Fireman]

ding ding ding we have a winner!

No we don't.

[badger]

Growing up catholic, I've noticed a LOT of mexican births in my grade (08) for them it seems that the more children the better the check you get from the govt. I don't understand why a mom doesn't consider 7$ a month for birth control vs. 30,000$ the first year... society is ****ed and the sad thing is they're isn't an end in sight... birth control, I love you :)

I've read that in some cultures, girls aren't really considered women until they're mothers. Perhaps it's a status issue, that you are all grown up and should be taken seriously if you have a child.

[Okla-homey]

I've read that in some cultures, girls aren't really considered women until they're mothers. Perhaps it's a status issue, that you are all grown up and should be taken seriously if you have a child.

That too. Definitely.

[pilobolus]

The schools should give out condoms for free.

[Leroy Lizard]

How admirable that you are always willing to maintain your "high moral standards" (and holy relationship with God) no matter how much others suffer.

If everyone abided by the same high moral standards, would the suffering of unwanted or undesirable pregnancies increase or decrease?

[yermom]

everyone could "be excellent to each other" too, but that ain't happening either

[Leroy Lizard]

everyone could "be excellent to each other" too, but that ain't happening either

Just like everyone could be perfect in their use of birth control methods, but that ain't happening either.

If your standard is that the system must be perfect with no chance of undesirable pregnancies, then neither side is going to prevail.

[yermom]

yeah, but apparently more teens get pregnant when you just tell them it's wrong to have sex and assume they won't, vs. telling them to use birth control if they do

it would also help if both parties really understood what having a baby meant

[TUSooner]

If everyone abided by the same high moral standards, would the suffering of unwanted or undesirable pregnancies increase or decrease?

So, as long as you remain morally pure, the suffering of others is not your concern?
(The question mark is probably unnecessary.)

[Soonerwake]

yeah, but apparently more teens get pregnant when you just tell them it's wrong to have sex and assume they won't, vs. telling them to use birth control if they do

it would also help if both parties really understood what having a baby meant

Is there proof that this is true? Not calling you out, but I would be curious to see studies that proved that giving away free condoms, therefore telling teenagers that sex is OK, prevents more pregnancies vs. teaching abstinence until marriage. Is there some middle ground that we are missing??

Just curious...

[Theskipster]

Top ten religious States ranked based on belief in God, frequency of prayer and worship attendance.

http://theskipster.com/images/top10relstates.gif

Teen Birth Rate


1. Mississippi 71.9
2. New Mexico 66.1
3. Texas 64.2
4. Arkansas 61.7
5. Oklahoma 61.5
6. Arizona 61.2
7. Tennessee 56.2
8. Louisiana 55.9
9. Nevada 55.3
10. Kentucky 55.1


Least Religious
http://www.theskipster.com/images/leastrelstates.gif

Lowest Teen Birth Rate


1. New Hampshire 20.0
2. Vermont 22.0
3. Massachusetts 22.1
4. Connecticut 23.1
5. New Jersey 25.2
6. New York 25.8
7. Maine 26.9
8. Minnesota 28.6
9. North Dakota 29.3
10. Rhode Island 30.0


I think religion has at least something to do with it.

[Soonerwake]

Homey, I gotta give it up to you. I was doing some research in a weak attempt of disproving your link between high teenage birth rates and poverty, and lo and behold, I ended up disproving my own theory.

Seven of the Top Ten states listed are in the highest category for poverty (>15%) and the other 3, including Oklahoma are in the next highest category (12.1%-15%). :eek:

[Position Limit]

with so very few endeavors for kids to pursue in this state and other southern states, the loathsome teenager looks no further than brittney spears for guidance. toss is in poverty, poor education, country music and christian dogma and it makes for national rankings.

[Soonerwake]

I think religion has at least something to do with it.

I'm getting the dreaded red X on these, but I certainly don't disagree that religion has "something to do with it".

So, the assumption here is that only the "religious" teach abstinence??

[Soonerwake]

with so very few endeavors for kids to pursue in this state and other southern states, the loathsome teenager looks no further than brittney spears for guidance. toss is in poverty, poor education, country music and christian dogma and it makes for national rankings.

We might be stretching a little now... :D

[Theskipster]

I'm getting the dreaded red X on these, but I certainly don't disagree that religion has "something to do with it".

So, the assumption here is that only the "religious" teach abstinence??

You really can't reach a cause or assumption at all, just that there is a strong correlation. It could be that the most religious is the least educated and the poorest and one of those could be the cause.

It could be that the more religious areas also put more pressure on the teens to carry the baby to term instead of aborting it.

You never can tell the root cause from a correlation, just that there is some sort of link.

[Leroy Lizard]

yeah, but apparently more teens get pregnant when you just tell them it's wrong to have sex and assume they won't, vs. telling them to use birth control if they do

Because of our pro-procreation culture, which Bible thumpers argue against. It isn't just "telling teens it's wrong to have sex." It's about creating a culture that praises abstinence and rejects depravity. We do not have that culture, primarily because our media (which pretty much runs our lives) does not want it.

If society preaches that teen sex is good (and our society does in many ways), then you can't complain about the problems associated with teen pregnancy. And you certainly cannot say that the abstinence view has failed when society does everything it can to undermine the movement.

Watch tv sometime. We have banned smoking on tv because we want to encourage the younger generation to stay away from cigarettes. But when it comes to teen sex, we take the exact opposite route -- and then complain about the problems it creates.

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm getting the dreaded red X on these, but I certainly don't disagree that religion has "something to do with it".

So, the assumption here is that only the "religious" teach abstinence??

I think we have problem with distinguishing correlation with cause/effect. I doubt the cause is religion, but rather poverty. The poor don't see children as being an impediment to any grand plans, because they have no grand plans. If anything, having a child gives a poor young girl something to take care of and be responsible for (sorry about the dangling prepositions). They don't think about the downsides until it is too late. Often they are not even cognizant of the problems associated with having a young kid.

[Scott D]

You really can't reach a cause or assumption at all, just that there is a strong correlation. It could be that the most religious is the least educated and the poorest and one of those could be the cause.

It could be that the more religious areas also put more pressure on the teens to carry the baby to term instead of aborting it.

You never can tell the root cause from a correlation, just that there is some sort of link.

I'd say that's fairly accurate. And unlike what Leroy says, I don't think that it's a compromising of morals. A lot of what VK said comes into play also, once cultures get into cycles of believing that something is acceptable due to it becoming common it's a very uphill battle.

Another aspect as well is that we've all been teenagers at one point. Other than the normal urges that teenagers are going to have no matter where they are, there's probably a bit of an old school mindset among parents and the community in regards to being preachy about abstinence and how premarital sex is wrong. Of course, you'll have more than enough teens who will go and have unprotected premarital sex to "rebel" against mom and dad or their preacher/priest.

[Position Limit]

I think we have problem with distinguishing correlation with cause/effect. I doubt the cause is religion, but rather poverty. The poor don't see children as being an impediment to any grand plans, because they have no grand plans. If anything, having a child gives a poor young girl something to take care of and be responsible for (sorry about the dangling prepositions). They don't think about the downsides until it is too late. Often they are not even cognizant of the problems associated with having a young kid.

poverty and religion go hand and hand. the poor has been duped by religion forever.
sex on tv sells. that's why it there. european countries are pro sex. what's their teenage preg rate?
want to lower the rate? make abortions easier.

[Okla-homey]

FWIW, I think is probably unrealistic to expect teens to use non-medical methods of birth control. Face it, even if a kid has easy access to condoms, its probably foolish to expect him or her to use one, every time. I think, too often, kids start making out and one thing leads to another, and before the girl really knows what's happening, its over. Especially when the girl is a couple years younger than the boy.

[Scott D]

I don't agree with making abortions easier. What I do agree with is making teens more informed. I never got threatened with the fire and brimstone nonsense about teenage sex. I just got the "you better wear a condom because if you get a girl pregnant I'm cutting your thing off" speech from my mother as a teen.

[Soonerfan88]

I think the biggest correlation between religion and teen birth rate is abortions. I'm not the greatest internet researcher but surely somewhere there is a chart of states' teen abortions. I would hypothesize those states making the Gallup least religious poll also have high abortion rates.


Both abstinence and birth control have their place but each side seems intent on ignoring the other. Compromise can achieve great results sometimes.

[soonervegas]

with so very few endeavors for kids to pursue in this state and other southern states, the loathsome teenager looks no further than brittney spears for guidance. toss is in poverty, poor education, country music and christian dogma and it makes for national rankings.

Yup my thoughts as well. I think it is lack of options and poverty more than religion....

[Theskipster]

I think the biggest correlation between religion and teen birth rate is abortions. I'm not the greatest internet researcher but surely somewhere there is a chart of states' teen abortions. I would hypothesize those states making the Gallup least religious poll also have high abortion rates.


Both abstinence and birth control have their place but each side seems intent on ignoring the other. Compromise can achieve great results sometimes.

Abortion rate per 1000 people by state.


http://www.theskipster.com/images/abortbystate.gif

Not a strong correlation at all.

[Fraggle145]

Poverty and religion are also strongly correlated... Religion can act as a positive feedback on poverty. Basically reinforcing the situation that is creating the problems in the first place.

[Scott D]

I'm curious if LA and CA just refused to participate or they're so high it wasn't worth giving them their own color ;)

[Soonerwake]

I think we have problem with distinguishing correlation with cause/effect. I doubt the cause is religion, but rather poverty. The poor don't see children as being an impediment to any grand plans, because they have no grand plans. If anything, having a child gives a poor young girl something to take care of and be responsible for (sorry about the dangling prepositions). They don't think about the downsides until it is too late. Often they are not even cognizant of the problems associated with having a young kid.

That is an excellent point. I had not thought of it the other way around, but it does give some credence to Homey's original point that poverty and teenage birth rates develop into some sort inescapable whirlpool.

As with most issues facing society today, high teenage pregnancy rates are a result of a variety of mitigating factors, including but not limited to, poverty, religious fervor, cultural norms, media, lack of education, and the boogey man.

[Leroy Lizard]

poverty and religion go hand and hand. the poor has been duped by religion forever.

Okay, at this point the argumentation will drop into a name-calling slug fest.


european countries are pro sex. what's their teenage preg rate?

Middle eastern countries are very anti sex. What's their teenage preg rate?

Two can play at this game.

[Scott D]

to be fair, in middle eastern countries you're likely to get your junk cut off, so they do have that motivation.

[Leroy Lizard]

Poverty and religion are also strongly correlated... Religion can act as a positive feedback on poverty. Basically reinforcing the situation that is creating the problems in the first place.

Religion offers the poor hope and the belief that, no matter how rotten you have it, better times will come. It also offers them a reason to care about others and to behave in a good way.

I certainly don't want to take that away from them. The only other solution is to hand them a brandy and a revolver and put them in a room.

[starclassic tama]

No we don't.



Top ten religious States ranked based on belief in God, frequency of prayer and worship attendance.



ding ding ding we have a winner!

[Fraggle145]

to be fair, in middle eastern countries you're likely to get your junk cut off, so they do have that motivation.

Not to mention what they do to the genitals of 'dishonorable' girls.

[Leroy Lizard]

That is an excellent point. I had not thought of it the other way around, but it does give some credence to Homey's original point that poverty and teenage birth rates develop into some sort inescapable whirlpool.

As with most issues facing society today, high teenage pregnancy rates are a result of a variety of mitigating factors, including but not limited to, poverty, religious fervor, cultural norms, media, lack of education, and the boogey man.

You forgot the biggest: The media's glorification of all things sex. We are a sex obsessed society and teens are naturally heavily influenced by it. In fact, it is probably the strongest influence they experience.

[Fraggle145]

Religion offers the poor hope and the belief that, no matter how rotten you have it, better times will come. It also offers them a reason to care about others and to behave in a good way.

I certainly don't want to take that away from them. The only other solution is to hand them a brandy and a revolver and put them in a room.

But the rest of the dogma that is tied to religion comes with it... Including abstinence only education.

[Ike]

I'm curious if LA and CA just refused to participate or they're so high it wasn't worth giving them their own color ;)

Apparently, LA, CA, and NH don't voluntarily turn over abortion numbers to the CDC.

[BillyBall]

Mississippi and New Mexico are also the 2 poorest states in the country, pretty direct correlation there.

[Leroy Lizard]

Not to mention what they do to the genitals of 'dishonorable' girls.

Actually, genital mutilation is performed before they become dishonorable, to keep them from becoming dishonorable. But genital mutilation is a largely African/Islam thing.

[royalfan5]

You forgot the biggest: The media's glorification of all things sex. We are a sex obsessed society and teens are naturally heavily influenced by it. In fact, it is probably the strongest influence they experience.

I'm pretty sure most people are capable of figuring out that sex is rad, without needing culture to glorify it for them.

[Leroy Lizard]

But the rest of the dogma that is tied to religion comes with it... Including abstinence only education.

Yes, along with religion comes certain beliefs and principles.

So on one hand, you have religion which preaches abstinence that is not always effective, and on the other hand you have atheism which gives the downtrodden no hope at all.

[Fraggle145]

Yes, along with religion comes certain beliefs and principles.

So on one hand, you have religion which preaches abstinence that is not effective,

FIFY.


and on the other hand you have atheism which gives the downtrodden no hope at all.

But would probably be effective at reducing teen pregnancy.

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm pretty sure most people are capable of figuring out that sex is rad, without needing culture to glorify it for them.

Not true. In our history we have gone through periods where sex was not glorified. It is not fundamentally rad; we made it that way.

It's like shooting meth. If Hollywood decides that shooting meth is cool, it will be cool in short order. And after awhile, those that oppose it will be called "stodgy old people who are just getting in the way of perfectly natural behavior."

[Position Limit]

You forgot the biggest: The media's glorification of all things sex. We are a sex obsessed society and teens are naturally heavily influenced by it. In fact, it is probably the strongest influence they experience.

i'm sex obsessed and i dont watch much television. when i was a teenager i was even moreso sex obsessed and watched less television. teenagers and sex is part of the human genetic. easier access to abortions and less stigmatism that go with it will drop the rate of teen preg. when i was in high school if you were preg or knocked up some gal, you were outcasted. and abortion was not as frowned upon as it is today. and i'm in my 30's...

[Sooner04]

Hello, my name is Sooner04, and I enjoyed having sex while I was a teenager.

[Theskipster]

Middle eastern countries are very anti sex. What's their teenage preg rate?

Two can play at this game.

Then play that game. What is the teenage preg rate of the middle east? And how does that compare to Europe?

[C&CDean]

Look at all you numbskulls trying to use statistics to figure this deal out.

I don't need a bunch of research to answer this one. Here's how it goes:

Girls down south are raised by a bunch of white trash meth mommas and black crack hoes. Their mommas were 15 when they were born, most don't even know their daddy (unless "Uncle Tyrone" or "Big Bubba" really is their daddy). They think Welfare is the place where their momma works (well it does kinda sound like Walmart). By the time they're 6, they've seen their mommas suck a dick and take it in the pooper by a dozen or more men. Hell, it's what girls do, right? By the time they're 10, Tyrone or Bubba has already shown them how to suck a dick, and by the time they're 14, they've already humped half the football team at school. One of the humps sticks, and voila! you've got another knocked up teenager. Pretty ****ing simple, no?

Some of these girls might go to church, most probably don't. These girls ain't got a chance from the day they were pooped out by their whore mommas. It ain't religion's fault any more than it's Satan or Darwin's fault. It's society's fault, and blaming religion or non-religion or no access to birth control is a bunch of hokey horse****.

[royalfan5]

Not true. In our history we have gone through periods where sex was not glorified. It is not fundamentally rad; we made it that way.

It's like shooting meth. If Hollywood decides that shooting meth is cool, it will be cool in short order. And after awhile, those that oppose it will be called "stodgy old people who are just getting in the way of perfectly natural behavior."

No, the act of sex is pretty rad, is what I'm saying, and most people can figure that out on their own.

[Soonerwake]

I would be curious to see what the teenage pregnancy rates were in schools with strong, active FCA-type groups vs. schools without them, where other factors (economic, race, etc.) were similar.

And no, I didn't participate in FCA or any similar clubs. My school didn't have one (Catholic school).

[Leroy Lizard]

FIFY.

But would probably be effective at reducing teen pregnancy.

Pfffft. Big deal. You're still poor. You still have no chance. So your life is relegated to a miserable existence; then you die.

Religion offers a way out. You don't have to believe in it, but I know many people who cling to their Bible because it gives them something to live for.

And it is nice knowing that, no matter what your circumstances, no matter what hand has been dealt you, no matter how people treat you, no matter how dim your outlook, there is someone out there that loves you and will do great things for you when that time comes.


when i was a teenager i was even moreso sex obsessed and watched less television.

You cannot escape the media's influence. Not in this country.

[Fraggle145]

I would be curious to see what the teenage pregnancy rates were in schools with strong, active FCA-type groups vs. schools without them, where other factors (economic, race, etc.) were similar.

And no, I didn't participate in FCA or any similar clubs. My school didn't have one (Catholic school).

In Owasso, perhaps the king of FCA in the state, we had quite a few girls get knocked up that were involved in the program.

[Sooner04]

You people have fallen into the trap.

[Soonerwake]

As usual, Dean appears out of nowhere to break up a perfectly good circular discussion in which someone was going to come up with a fool-proof method of ridding society of one of it's ills.

I guess I'll throw away my white paper I had prepared for my local legislator entitled, 'The Soonerfans.com Response to Teenage Pregnancy'.

So Dean, Mr Know-it-all, do the crack-ho and white-trash mommas teach their illegitimate puppies to yell "Sooners" at the end of the national anthem?? :D

[Fraggle145]

Pfffft. Big deal. You're still poor. You still have no chance. So your life is relegated to a miserable existence; then you die.

Religion offers a way out. You don't have to believe in it, but I know many people who cling to their Bible because it gives them something to live for.

And it is nice knowing that, no matter what your circumstances, no matter what hand has been dealt you, no matter how people treat you, no matter how dim your outlook, there is someone out there that loves you and will do great things for you when that time comes.


But it cant be the government that can do something for them... :rolleyes: Because when the government does it then we are socialist and create the nanny-state right?

[C&CDean]

As usual, Dean appears out of nowhere to break up a perfectly good circular discussion in which someone was going to come up with a fool-proof method of ridding society of one of it's ills.

I guess I'll throw away my white paper I had prepared for my local legislator entitled, 'The Soonerfans.com Response to Teenage Pregnancy'.

So Dean, Mr Know-it-all, do the crack-ho and white-trash mommas teach their illegitimate puppies to yell "Sooners" at the end of the national anthem?? :D

Hells no, them bitches are too busy pooping out future teen mommas to go to a ball game.

[TUSooner]

I want to go on record right now as saying I have no plan for dealing with teen pregnancy and never did; I just wanted to mess with Leroy ! :D

[Ike]

I want to go on record right now as saying I have no plan for dealing with teen pregnancy and never did; I just wanted to mess with Leroy ! :D

To be fair, nobody else has a plan for dealing with teen pregnancy. If they did, it wouldn't be an issue.

[Leroy Lizard]

But it cant be the government that can do something for them... :rolleyes:

What's the government going to do for someone paralyzed from the waist down and can barely speak?

We have one at our church. He was nearly killed in a car wreck and is a total mess physically. But he said once in church that he is thankful for all that he has. That's strong stuff.

What's government going to do? Give him some free cheese?

Or do you plan to replace his belief with some pseudo-intellectual, existentialist mumbo-jumbo. Yeah, that'll really set him up. :rolleyes:

[C&CDean]

point to leroy

[Soonerfan88]

Abortion rate per 1000 people by state.


http://www.theskipster.com/images/abortbystate.gif

Not a strong correlation at all.

5 of the 10 least religious states (MA, WA, RI, NV, and CT) are among the highest abortion rates and a 6th (NH) doesn't report to the CDC. Good enough correlation for me.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Can we all agree that sex is awesome?

[Serge Ibaka]

Keep abortion safe, legal, and rare.

Kids need to have reasonable access to contraceptives, and they need to have reasonable access to facts about sex.

Our schools should teach that abstinence is a good thing. But our state's sex-ed curriculum is based upon lies and fear and not just abstinence.

I remember sex ed: I was shown a lot of gross pictures of people with diseases, and I was told that condoms are ineffective 25% of the time.

The week before Prom there was an assembly where a man explained that pregnancies can still often occur despite the use of condoms AND birth control tablets. He displayed some sort of graphic that showed microscopic holes in a condom (which sperm were said to easily pass through--supposedly condoms don't even have to break to be ineffective!).

This is the wrong approach, and it's insulting to our children.

And blaming this upon the Mexicans is dumb. Oklahoma has a relatively low (or average) Hispanic population in comparison to the rest of the country (link (http://latinostories.com/Latino_Facts_and_Statistics/Latino_Population_by_State.htm)). Also, I knew a lot of stupid, pregnant White girls when I was a kid, and so did you.

[Viking Kitten]

I don't know about the other folks who talked about Messicans, but I was using them as but ONE example of cultural barriers to reducing teen pregnancy. I also mentioned trashy skanky white ho's.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

First you attack Messicans, now you are attacking OsU fans...Way to go VK

[C&CDean]

Keep abortion safe, legal, and rare.

Kids need to have reasonable access to contraceptives, and they need to have reasonable access to facts about sex.

Our schools should teach that abstinence is a good thing. But our state's sex-ed curriculum is based upon lies and fear and not just abstinence.

I remember sex ed: I was shown a lot of gross pictures of people with diseases, and I was told that condoms are ineffective 25% of the time.

The week before Prom there was an assembly where a man explained that pregnancies can still often occur despite the use of condoms AND birth control tablets. He displayed some sort of graphic that showed microscopic holes in a condom (which sperm were said to easily pass through--supposedly condoms don't even have to break to be ineffective!).

This is the wrong approach, and it's insulting to our children.

And blaming this upon the Mexicans is dumb. Oklahoma has a relatively low (or average) Hispanic population in comparison to the rest of the country (link (http://latinostories.com/Latino_Facts_and_Statistics/Latino_Population_by_State.htm)). Also, I knew a lot of stupid, pregnant White girls when I was a kid, and so did you.

Oh like the 14-year old meth child or crack ho child is gonna actually read something about sex ed.

You people.

[Chuck Bao]

Look at all you numbskulls trying to use statistics to figure this deal out.

I don't need a bunch of research to answer this one. Here's how it goes:

Girls down south are raised by a bunch of white trash meth mommas and black crack hoes. Their mommas were 15 when they were born, most don't even know their daddy (unless "Uncle Tyrone" or "Big Bubba" really is their daddy). They think Welfare is the place where their momma works (well it does kinda sound like Walmart). By the time they're 6, they've seen their mommas suck a dick and take it in the pooper by a dozen or more men. Hell, it's what girls do, right? By the time they're 10, Tyrone or Bubba has already shown them how to suck a dick, and by the time they're 14, they've already humped half the football team at school. One of the humps sticks, and voila! you've got another knocked up teenager. Pretty ****ing simple, no?

Some of these girls might go to church, most probably don't. These girls ain't got a chance from the day they were pooped out by their whore mommas. It ain't religion's fault any more than it's Satan or Darwin's fault. It's society's fault, and blaming religion or non-religion or no access to birth control is a bunch of hokey horse****.

That's the most lame excuse for a post that I have read on here for a very long time.

When I was in junior high and high school in the '70s, it was the cheerleaders and pretty girls from the affluent, church-going families that got knocked up. After 2-3 abortions and the doctor warning that they might never be able to bear children, you'd think that they would have learned their lesson but they didn't. There weren't any teenage pregnancies among those considered poor, as far as I am aware.

Okay, the world has changed since the '70s and we now have crackheads and methheads and white trash and that perpetual myth of the growing army of welfare moms. I still think that it is the rich, pretty girls that attract the horndogs. And, these girls suffer from a strange duality of 1) thinking that they are invincible and 2) low self-esteem. It's a popularity contest, afterall. And beat out the competition and win the guy means everything.

Okay, I don't even pretend to get into the mindset of the average American teenage female. And, if I have offended any dads out there, then I am truly sorry.

I think that Dean was right on blaming society. Hollywood and the sex on TV and at the movies, I can see. But, making it a class issue and drug issue and political issue, no.

[Leroy Lizard]

Keep abortion safe, legal, and rare.

That sounds great on a bumper sticker, but tough to pull off. The very fact of handing kids contraceptives is a permission slip to have sex in their minds. And with that you breed a culture of permissible sex, which only makes the job that much tougher.

I understand your view. Don't agree with it, but I understand it. But it just isn't that simple.

[Serge Ibaka]

Oh like the 14-year old meth child or crack ho child is gonna actually read something about sex ed.

You people.

Of course: totally eradicating unwanted pregnancies is impossible. STIs and teen-pregnancy are a big issue however, and when our society simply throws out This isn't an issue because you simply shouldn't be having sex! It's not for you, yet!, we're losing leverage.

The kids who aren't from meth homes--the kids who have caring parents and a collegiate future--get pregnant and infected too. They're just the ones who have hush-hush abortions and treatments in near-bye communities.

Kids--all sorts of kids!--are going to have sex. You've been there, and so have I. And kids are stupid; they're old enough to procreate, but they aren't old enough to think about sex responsibly without a little help. We have to talk to them like adults and at least stress the importance of condoms (while the current Oklahoma status quo is to yell DON'T EVEN TRUST CONDOMS! NO SEX IS SAFE!! over and over again, and that's not realistic).

The guy who first posted in this thread that Oklahoma's sex-ed policies are to blame for its ranking in this poll: he's at least partially right.

[Leroy Lizard]

That's the most lame excuse for a post that I have read on here for a very long time.

When I was in junior high and high school in the '70s, it was the cheerleaders and pretty girls from the affluent, church-going families that got knocked up. After 2-3 abortions and the doctor warning that they might never be able to bear children, you'd think that they would have learned their lesson but they didn't. There weren't any teenage pregnancies among those considered poor, as far as I am aware.

Okay, the world has changed since the '70s and we now have crackheads and methheads and white trash and that perpetual myth of the growing army of welfare moms. I still think that it is the rich, pretty girls that attract the horndogs. And, these girls suffer from a strange duality of 1) thinking that they are invincible and 2) low self-esteem. It's a popularity contest, afterall. And beat out the competition and win the guy means everything.

Okay, I don't even pretend to get into the mindset of the average American teenage female. And, I have offended any dads out there, then I am truly sorry.

I think that Dean was right on blaming society. Hollywood and the sex on TV and at the movies, I can see. But, making it a class issue and drug issue and political issue, no.

I think you are stereotyping just as much as anyone else.

[C&CDean]

That's the most lame excuse for a post that I have read on here for a very long time.

When I was in junior high and high school in the '70s, it was the cheerleaders and pretty girls from the affluent, church-going families that got knocked up. After 2-3 abortions and the doctor warning that they might never be able to bear children, you'd think that they would have learned their lesson but they didn't. There weren't any teenage pregnancies among those considered poor, as far as I am aware.

Okay, the world has changed since the '70s and we now have crackheads and methheads and white trash and that perpetual myth of the growing army of welfare moms. I still think that it is the rich, pretty girls that attract the horndogs. And, these girls suffer from a strange duality of 1) thinking that they are invincible and 2) low self-esteem. It's a popularity contest, afterall. And beat out the competition and win the guy means everything.

Okay, I don't even pretend to get into the mindset of the average American teenage female. And, if I have offended any dads out there, then I am truly sorry.

I think that Dean was right on blaming society. Hollywood and the sex on TV and at the movies, I can see. But, making it a class issue and drug issue and political issue, no.

Lame? You just contradicted yourself in your own post holmes. Those rich cheerleader chicks all got abortions. Shazam, not preggers anymore. The ones who keep dumping future teen mommas into society ain't the cheerleaders, it's the poor white trash and the ghetto girls. Fact.

Now who is lame?

[Serge Ibaka]

That sounds great on a bumper sticker, but tough to pull off. The very fact of handing kids contraceptives is a permission slip to have sex in their minds. And with that you breed a culture of permissible sex, which only makes the job that much tougher.

I understand your view. Don't agree with it, but I understand it. But it just isn't that simple.

Sex is already permissible, and kids are doing it. If you think kids are having less sex in rural Oklahoma Christian communities than they are in Portland, Oregon or Seattle, Washington: you're mostly mistaken.

I come from a small, Oklahoma, religious community, mind you.

And we've all heard about Fall's Creek.

The taboo is ineffective. They need condoms and facts.

[C&CDean]

Of course: totally eradicating unwanted pregnancies is impossible. STIs and teen-pregnancy are a big issue however, and when our society simply throws out This isn't an issue because you simply shouldn't be having sex! It's not for you, yet!, we're losing leverage.

The kids who aren't from meth homes--the kids who have caring parents and a collegiate future--get pregnant and infected too. They're just the ones who have hush-hush abortions and treatments in near-bye communities.

Kids--all sorts of kids!--are going to have sex. You've been there, and so have I. And kids are stupid; they're old enough to procreate, but they aren't old enough to think about sex responsibly without a little help. We have to talk to them like adults and at least stress the importance of condoms (while the current Oklahoma status quo is to yell DON'T EVEN TRUST CONDOMS! NO SEX IS SAFE!! over and over again, and that's not realistic).

The guy who first posted in this thread that Oklahoma's sex-ed policies are to blame for its ranking in this poll: he's at least partially right.

C'mon dude. Blaming the schools/churches/state for teen pregnancy is just plain dumb. The only people who can take blame in this **** is the parents - and even the very best parents drop kids who are ****ed up. My only point is for all you morons to quit with the "it's the church, it's the schools, it's Oklahoma's Bible belt crapola, blah blah blah" It's the ****ing home.

[Fraggle145]

What's the government going to do for someone paralyzed from the waist down and can barely speak?

We have one at our church. He was nearly killed in a car wreck and is a total mess physically. But he said once in church that he is thankful for all that he has. That's strong stuff.

What's government going to do? Give him some free cheese?

Or do you plan to replace his belief with some pseudo-intellectual, existentialist mumbo-jumbo. Yeah, that'll really set him up. :rolleyes:

Since when were we talking about some paralyzed guy in your church?

We were talking about teen pregnancy. I am asking who do you want to pay for all of the babies if we shouldnt ask people to use birth control?

Religion may make you feel all hunky-dorry about them having babies, and tell you they cant be aborted, but it doesnt change the fact that these babies have to be paid for...

[C&CDean]

still point leroy

sorry frag

[Serge Ibaka]

C'mon dude. Blaming the schools/churches/state for teen pregnancy is just plain dumb. The only people who can take blame in this **** is the parents - and even the very best parents drop kids who are ****ed up. My only point is for all you morons to quit with the "it's the church, it's the schools, it's Oklahoma's Bible belt crapola, blah blah blah" It's the ****ing home.

So Oklahoma is actually 5th in crappy parenting?

I can buy into that one too, maybe.

[C&CDean]

Finally, you get it.

[Fraggle145]

still point leroy

sorry frag

Dude, its cool... I just want to know who is supposed to pay for them?

The religious point of view pretends it is just going to go away and that kids arent going to have sex. Everyone know's that they are.

Poor people and stupid people are going to keep ****ting out kids. At least we can try to keep the stupid people from ****ting out kids. Give them condoms, birth control, whatever...

The worse part about it is that we are punishing the kids that actually have a chance by not properly educating them.

[Chuck Bao]

Lame? You just contradicted yourself in your own post holmes. Those rich cheerleader chicks all got abortions. Shazam, not preggers anymore. The ones who keep dumping future teen mommas into society ain't the cheerleaders, it's the poor white trash and the ghetto girls. Fact.

Now who is lame?

Heh! I don't think there is anyone, anywhere who agrees that abortion is the best choice, even among those most fervent pro-choice people.

But if you want to blame it on the poor white trash and ghetto girls, just go ahead, especially if that makes you sleep better at night.

[Leroy Lizard]

Sex is already permissible, and kids are doing it.

Yeah, and kids are shooting meth too. What of it?

We can give them all the facts we want about meth (which they pretty much already know). Facts alone won't solve the problem.

[Frozen Sooner]

Yeah, and kids are shooting meth too. What of it?

We can give them all the facts we want about meth (which they pretty much already know). Facts alone won't solve the problem.

Oddly enough, we also have major campaigns telling them to abstain from meth. That doesn't seem particularly effective either.

[Half a Hundred]

Of course crappy parenting is the key. The problem is that if we want to do anything about it as a societal issue, we have to figure out how to mitigate the effects of said crappy parenting. Oklahoma has a number of social factors that makes it difficult to do so.

[Soonerwake]

Yeah, and kids are shooting meth too. What of it?

We can give them all the facts we want about meth (which they pretty much already know). Facts alone won't solve the problem.

The "facts" are only the first step. Being active in the child's life (who do they hang out with, where are they, how are their grades, what are their hobbies, extracurricular activites at school, etc.) is putting that education into practice. And, as a lame Christian, I would include talking about abstinence, Bible study, youth programs at church, etc.

[C&CDean]

Heh! I don't think there is anyone, anywhere who agrees that abortion is the best choice, even among those most fervent pro-choice people.

But if you want to blame it on the poor white trash and ghetto girls, just go ahead, especially if that makes you sleep better at night.

Dude, I don't blame it on the girls. Yet. I blame it on their whore mommas. Of course when they become a whore momma at 15 then I'll blame it on them.

[Fraggle145]

Oddly enough, we also have major campaigns telling them to abstain from meth. That doesn't seem particularly effective either.

The difference is that we cant give people that want to use meth something else that is almost as good as meth, but reduces the bad side effects of meth by 95% or greater, like condoms and birth control.

So the meth argument is really apples and oranges.

[Soonerwake]

Dude, I don't blame it on the girls. Yet. I blame it on their whore mommas. Of course when they become a whore momma at 15 then I'll blame it on them.

So, how does society break the cycle of the "whore momma"?

[C&CDean]

Take away welfare, food stamps, and all the government handouts. Shoot drug dealers on sight. Hell, I don't know.

[Soonerwake]

Take away welfare, food stamps, and all the government handouts. Shoot drug dealers on sight. Hell, I don't know.

The answers were right in front of us!!! Ok, next topic...

[Leroy Lizard]

Since when were we talking about some paralyzed guy in your church?


Your point was that the poor get duped by the church and their lives would improve if they abandoned religion.

Not so. The church serves a very beneficial purpose to the poor, whether you believe in its tenets or not. And if you agree, then we can drop this part of the discussion.


We were talking about teen pregnancy. I am asking who do you want to pay for all of the babies if we shouldnt ask people to use birth control?

I don't oppose birth control for those families that want to choose that system. I favor a system where those who favor an abstinence approach are not undermined by a society that tells their kids to disregard religious convictions. Right now we ridicule religion, promote teenage sex, hand kids contraceptives, then claim "Abstinence doesn't work! Abstinence doesn't work!"

And no, paying mere lip service to abstinence is not sufficient.

If we want to fight unwanted pregnancies, we need to attack on both fronts. We need contraceptives but we also need to quit undermining those who are trying to teach their kids good moral behavior.

As for who pays for the abortions: The kids got themselves into that mess; let them get themselves out. If their parents want to pay, fine. Don't expect ME to pay for their transgressions, however.

[Frozen Sooner]

The difference is that we cant give people that want to use meth something else that is almost as good as meth, but reduces the bad side effects of meth by 95% or greater, like condoms and birth control.

So the meth argument is really apples and oranges.

Yeah, I know. I was just pointing out that "Just Say No" doesn't work particularly well.

[Leroy Lizard]

Oddly enough, we also have major campaigns telling them to abstain from meth. That doesn't seem particularly effective either.

No, we had a major advertisement campaign. For it to be a major campaign, you need the entertainment industry to pick up the torch.

Consider cocaine. The entertainment establishment made it cool, and we still have massive problems with the drug as it morphs (heh) from one form to another.

[Fraggle145]

Your point was that the poor get duped by the church and their lives would improve if they abandoned religion.

Not so. The church serves a very beneficial purpose to the poor, whether you believe in its tenets or not. And if you agree, then we can drop this part of the discussion.

No it wasnt. I didnt say their life would improve. I said abandoning religion would likely result in less babies. Religion does help poor people a lot. I think some of the tenets of religion actually have a negative effect on poor people.


I don't oppose birth control for those families that want to choose that system. I favor a system where those who favor an abstinence approach are not undermined by a society that tells their kids to disregard religious convictions. Right now we ridicule religion, promote teenage sex, hand kids contraceptives, then claim "Abstinence doesn't work! Abstinence doesn't work!"

And no, paying mere lip service to abstinence is not sufficient.

If we want to fight unwanted pregnancies, we need to attack on both fronts. We need contraceptives but we also need to quit undermining those who are trying to teach their kids good moral behavior.

As for who pays for the abortions: The kids got themselves into that mess; let them get themselves out. If their parents want to pay, fine. Don't expect ME to pay for their transgressions, however.

Right now we dont ridicule religion, more people in Oklahoma are religious than not as has been said in this thread previously, and we tend to use its reasoning when teaching about reasons for abstinence. And we arent just handing out contraceptives. When you walk into Owasso High School (as an example since my mother still teaches there and I know the most about it) you cant just go get condoms, and if you could it would negatively effect you socially and you would be looked down upon by the majority of the faculty.

Studies (and I am using that term loosely since I have read them, but I cant just fire it up with a link) have shown that education programs that combine abstinence education with birth control and education in using birth control are more effective than either alone.

And I wasnt asking who pays for the abortions... I was asking for who pays for the children after the abortions. Often times yes it is you. As sad as this is, paying for abortions is cheaper than paying to bring up children in the broken foster system and would perhaps have a positive effect on society as a whole simply by removing the self-perpetuating cycle of crack-hos and white trash.

[Leroy Lizard]

Yeah, I know. I was just pointing out that "Just Say No" doesn't work particularly well.

Actually, the "Just Say No" campaign of Nancy Reagan is a good example. She led a campaign to stop drug use among kids. Her motto was "Just Say No." She gave tv appearances, speeches, advertisements, you name it.

Why didn't it work? The entertainment industry said "Just Say Yes." Then on cue, the population ridiculed the "Just Say No" campaign. Those who were behind the "Just Say No" campaign were just a bunch of old farts and hags who were only out to stop people from having a good time.

Then, once people got hooked, we ridiculed the old farts and hags for not supporting efforts to get the people off the stuff.

Sounds rather familiar.

[Fraggle145]

Yeah, I know. I was just pointing out that "Just Say No" doesn't work particularly well.

I was just pointing it out more to counter Leroy's point that education isnt effective in countering meth so it wont be effective in countering teen pregnancy.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Drugs are completely different than sex. You can tell when someone is using Marijuana, cocaine, meth, and what not. That is just ****ty or not caring parenting. Sex, the kid doesn't walk in and you are like "hey you just got laid you piece of ****"

[Leroy Lizard]

Drugs do differ than sex, to be sure. They are not completely different.

[Frozen Sooner]

Actually, the "Just Say No" campaign of Nancy Reagan is a good example. She led a campaign to stop drug use among kids. Her motto was "Just Say No." She gave tv appearances, speeches, advertisements, you name it.

Why didn't it work? The entertainment industry said "Just Say Yes." Then on cue, the population ridiculed the "Just Say No" campaign. Those who were behind the "Just Say No" campaign were just a bunch of old farts and hags who were only out to stop people from having a good time.

Then, once people got hooked, we ridiculed the old farts and hags for not supporting efforts to get the people off the stuff.

Sounds rather familiar.

Huh. I must have imagined all those "RADD" commercials I saw growing up.

[Leroy Lizard]

Huh. I must have imagined all those "RADD" commercials I saw growing up.

Are we talking about drunk driving?

[Theskipster]

I was just pointing it out more to counter Leroy's point that education isnt effective in countering meth so it wont be effective in countering teen pregnancy.

Actually the "Just Say No" campaign worked quite well. Drug use among school kids went from almost 50% (Gov and UM #) when they started and went to 12% (Gov) or 20% (UM) at the tail end of the campaign. After the campaign ended, drug use in school kids started quickly rising again.

Real education works.

[Fraggle145]

Actually the "Just Say No" campaign worked quite well. Drug use among school kids went from almost 50% (Gov and UM #) when they started and went to 12% (Gov) or 20% (UM) at the tail end of the campaign. After the campaign ended, drug use in school kids started quickly rising again.

Real education works.

Well there ya go. :O

[Leroy Lizard]

Fraggle,

Start backpedaling right away.

[Chuck Bao]

Well there ya go. :O


Fraggle, Start backpedaling right away.

Kudos and spek to Fraggle for quoting one of Ronald Reagan's most famous debate quips.

[Leroy Lizard]

Kudos and spek to Fraggle for quoting one of Ronald Reagan's most famous debate quips.

So you're in on praising the effectiveness of Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" campaign too?

Just taking names.

[WA. Sooner]

Its money. Going to a movie and dinner cost money, blanking cost nothing at the time. This is why poorer grown ups have more kids also.