What would happen to a triple option/wishbone offense in the NFL?

[agoo758]

To my knowledge it's never really been tried before, at least not in the modern era, but given the right coaching and personnel, could it work at that level? Why or why not?

[KantoSooner]

Doubtful. The primary reason I would think is that the speed of defenses and their mental acuity would render the offense incapable of creating the mismatches or blown assignments that give the option/bone its big gains.

[BillyBall]

Your QB would get his *** decapitated.

[Mississippi Sooner]

Your QB would get his *** decapitated.

Would serve him right if he was wearing his *** up there. :P

[Aries]

Exactly what KantoSooner said, your chances of outrunning the defense to the sidelines don't really exist in the NFL.

[Spritekid]

Your QB would get his *** decapitated.

I agree 105%

[agoo758]

As I can see, there seems to be quite a consensus here, anyone on the other side?

[Scott D]

not really. If you figure that D1-A football has probably the top 25% of high school players...the NFL probably has the top 5-7% of D1-A players. In general NFL players have a lot better positional discipline than their college counterparts, enabled mostly by the fact that they get more than 3 years to ply their trade.

That offense might break a few plays, but for the most part it'd likely be a negative yardage offense, and that team would only have some success early before the defensive schemes would blow that offense up.

[cvsooner]

Jack Mildren actually ran the wishbone with the Colts his rookie season, during a pre-season game. I think they drove about 60 or 70 yards before they got stopped. It's the only time I've ever heard of a pro team doing it.

As we've seen, superior athleticism and a lot of speed nullify a lot of the advantages of the option. I think with the absolute right quarterback--at the pro level that would be someone who runs and throws extremely well--it might do okay. It also needs very good, speedy linemen who can throw blocks downfield.

[Sooner04]

Bill Walsh ran the Wishbone in '87 during the strike. Ran it right down the throat of Parcells and the NY Giants on Monday Night Football too.

[oudavid1]

grown men, to many injuries

[soonerbub]

I think it would take a Florida style offense to work with a qb that could hit the deep ball twice a game

[stoopified]

I have no idea how many games they might beable to win BUT I do know they will need to carry at least 6 QBs on their roster because their QBs will get killed.

[Rickety_Syd]

To my knowledge it's never really been tried before, at least not in the modern era, but given the right coaching and personnel, could it work at that level? Why or why not?

This would happen:


http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/dining/reviews/blog/ray

[MeMyself&Me]

I don't buy the argument that since defenders are faster that option can't successful cause the offenders would be faster too.

I can buy the argument that they have more time to devote to practicing assignment football but I'd imagine that a full time NFL option offense would evolve into something more complicated that what has been seen in college given the extra practice time the pro offenses have to practice too and that complexity would be about confusing the defense as to what their assignments should be.

I can certainly buy the fact that you'd need a ****load of QBs on your squad to be able to run a full NFL schedule doing that. When I watch old bits of footage of option in its heyday in college, I'm surprised the QBs could take it in a college season. They continually get pounded whether they pitch it or keep it, and particularly when you pitch it.

I can also buy the argument that modern NFL rules don't favor option football over passing offenses.


The only time I can remember seeing option in the NFL is when 'Slash' did some early in his career at Pittsburg out of the 'I' I believe. But it wasn't their staple.

[Rickety_Syd]

I think we know what happens when the wishbone goes against a pro team.
See OU vs. Miami 1985, '86, '87.

[bigjim1216]

It has been tried a few times, but with little success. Mostly in short yardage/goal line situations. I believe the best think about was it gave the opposition one more thing to have to plan for.

[Leroy Lizard]

I think we know what happens when the wishbone goes against a pro team.
See OU vs. Miami 1985, '86, '87.

That argument is ridiculous.

[Leroy Lizard]

I find it highly doubtful that wishbone QBs would get hurt any more at the pro level then they would in college. If I was a QB, I would rather be running the option then standing upright in a pocket waiting for a DE to cream me. But that's just me.

Pro teams don't run it because it requires too much commitment to a complete personnel overhaul. And because they consider it "college."

[Crucifax Autumn]

They sure as **** jumped all over the "college" spread.

[Soonermagik]

For the same reason Tebow can't run in the NFL. You're fooling yourself if you don't think the NFL is a different animal.

Guys are crazy fast, strong and hit like trucks. Plus, more and more teams are running a 3-4 with strong fast linebackers.

I'm not saying you couldn't run one play a game and get some yards. However, running it over and over would not work.

[tulsaoilerfan]

QB's would never last running the triple option in the NFL; you figure that he is going to get hit maybe 6-8 times a game on average while passing but he will get hit probably 30-40 times a game running the option; i don't like the QB's chances in that situation one bit

[Scott D]

I find it highly doubtful that wishbone QBs would get hurt any more at the pro level then they would in college. If I was a QB, I would rather be running the option then standing upright in a pocket waiting for a DE to cream me. But that's just me.

Pro teams don't run it because it requires too much commitment to a complete personnel overhaul. And because they consider it "college."

other than the QB position what's the overhaul? Each roster carries the requisite number of running backs, linemen, tight ends and wide receivers.

the issue at hand is that positional discipline is far greater at the NFL level than at the college level. backside pursuit is faster at the nfl level, and as it is, they easily string out off tackle and other outside running plays.

how often do teams run reverses in the nfl? why is the "wildcat" trend only used by one team on a regular basis, and as a occasional change of pace by other teams that run it?

[JohnnyMack]

What would happen?

Ray Lewis would actually kill someone.

[Scott D]

What would happen?

Ray Lewis would actually kill someone.

I'd lay odds on Patrick Willis killing someone first.

[Leroy Lizard]

It comes down to blocking. If you can get the type of run blocking needed to run it, it will work. But that would require revamping the entire OL. Who would want to do that?

[Scott D]

It really wouldn't be a drastic leap in blocking.....well except for perhaps the receiver position. But, you end up losing out on players because most receivers won't want to be on a team that runs a triple option no matter how successful it'd be on that level.

[Leroy Lizard]

other than the QB position what's the overhaul? Each roster carries the requisite number of running backs, linemen, tight ends and wide receivers.

Yeah, but the rosters are much smaller. You can't bring in a full complement of players just to run an offensive set.

[Leroy Lizard]

It really wouldn't be a drastic leap in blocking.....well except for perhaps the receiver position. But, you end up losing out on players because most receivers won't want to be on a team that runs a triple option no matter how successful it'd be on that level.

They'll be on the team if you pay them. This is the NFL.

[Scott D]

You'd have to offer them a disproportionate amount to sign with those teams. Odds are if you're staying within a salary structure, you won't be able to afford the running backs you need to run the system. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[Leroy Lizard]

QB's would never last running the triple option in the NFL; you figure that he is going to get hit maybe 6-8 times a game on average while passing but he will get hit probably 30-40 times a game running the option; i don't like the QB's chances in that situation one bit

If you run the triple option like JC Watts did, perhaps. But toward the end of the Switzer era QBs were changing the way they pitched the ball. Holieway was almost never hammered, because he pitched it earlier and leaned away from the hit.


30-40 times? No way.


We seem to have this argument about every six months.

[Leroy Lizard]

You'd have to offer them a disproportionate amount to sign with those teams.

They don't care. If you pay them $5 more to play on your team, they'll be suiting up within a week.

[MeMyself&Me]

other than the QB position what's the overhaul? Each roster carries the requisite number of running backs, linemen, tight ends and wide receivers.

the issue at hand is that positional discipline is far greater at the NFL level than at the college level. backside pursuit is faster at the nfl level, and as it is, they easily string out off tackle and other outside running plays.

how often do teams run reverses in the nfl? why is the "wildcat" trend only used by one team on a regular basis, and as a occasional change of pace by other teams that run it?

You'd need more runningbacks, less recievers, a very large bruising type of fullback, lineman that that can get downfield quickly, and probably more qbs on the roster than you would normally keep. I doubt any NFL teams can say they hit all these marks already.

Also the difference in rules like closer hash marks make it harder to justify trying such a run heavy style.

I would agree that positional discipline is significantly better in the NFL and that is why you less of the 'trick' type stuff like reverses. BUT, I would imagine that a full time option team would be better than college teams at using different sets, different motions, and different types of options and play action passes to confuse a defense and that would negate some, but probably not all of that advantage. However, we'll never know because of the personnel and rules issues.

I also used to agree that the NFL doesn't like to vary from the 'known' but with some teams experimenting with wildcat, I've come away from that sentiment.

[illinisooner]

It would work as a part of an offensive strategy...just like teams have packages of 5 WR/empty backfield sets, teams could have an option/wishbone package. You pick up Brad Smith (or a similar type of guy, who can also be a 4th string WR), a fullback/h back or two, and some backup running back/third down back types...boom, an option package. Design enough plays and schemes to make it work but not enough to where it takes away from Brad Smith knowing the WR routes, your RB's knowing their pass protection assignments, etc.

A good change of pace set similar to the Wildcat, that's what the option would be. But a sole offensive scheme? Not a chance. I do think we will see some teams use this with greater effectiveness in the future, but it's not going to replace the spread or west coast or anything. Gives the other team something else to prepare for and adapt to mid game. But yeah it wouldn't work as a full time offense for pretty much the reasons that everyone else has said.

[agoo758]

I think we know what happens when the wishbone goes against a pro team.
See OU vs. Miami 1985, '86, '87.

What about Nebraska vs. Miami 1995?

[Lott's Bandana]

What about Nebraska vs. Miami 1995?


Never a Wishbone team. Triple=option, yes. Bone nada.

[Lott's Bandana]

QB's would never last running the triple option in the NFL; you figure that Sam is going to get hit maybe 60-80 times a game on average while passing but he will get hit probably 30-40 times a game running the option; i don't like the QB's chances in that situation one bit


Caveated.

[Leroy Lizard]

Never a Wishbone team. Triple=option, yes. Bone nada.

What's the title of this thread? (You may have forgotten that Nebraska ran the bone for one or two years under Tom Osborne. Forget what they called it.)

And don't forget what Nebraska's triple option did to Florida.

[Sooner70]

Puts the QB too much at risk & that's usually the high dollar guy in the NFL. Too much at risk. May run occasionally with a stout QB like a Tebow, but not as a core offense. Matter of economics.

[Sooner04]

It will take an experiment by a horrible franchise that wants to bring a whole new way of thinking to the NFL. A franchise that build its offense through UDFAs and spends all it's money on the defense. Can't be paying 50 million guaranteed to an option quarterback.

But it may happen someday. It'll take a complete effort, though. It'll have to be something everyone is sold on, from the GM on down to the scrubs.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

With the lockout thats coming up, you might see some next year

[royalfan5]

What's the title of this thread? (You may have forgotten that Nebraska ran the bone for one or two years under Tom Osborne. Forget what they called it.)

And don't forget what Nebraska's triple option did to Florida.

Nebraska very rarely ran a true triple option. Almost every fullback carry was by design, not by read.

[CrimsonRez]

The only problem I see with it, is that to have a running offense you obviously need a running quarterback. There aren't many running quarterbacks in the NFL that can throw very well (Vick, VY, ummm) and in the NFL if you're one dimensional you're toast.