Need JKM's opinion [Archive] - SoonerFans.com Message Boards

westcoast_sooner

9/9/2010, 12:59 AM

Back in 2005 when ***** was QB, a lot of people said that 2006 was going to be a good Sooner team. But I recall you said that 2007 was going to be good - when everything came together. Of course, that assumed that ***** was going to be the QB in 2006 and beyond, and we know how that worked out...

But I have read enough posts on this board by JKM to respect his opinions. So... wondering what he thinks about last Saturday's outing and the prospects for the 2010 season.

yermom

9/9/2010, 03:52 AM

yermom

9/9/2010, 04:08 AM

2007 would have been Bomar's Junior year, and we were stocked with receivers and running backs

a Junior idiot might have not frozen up in Boulder and Bradford likely would have been on deck if Bomar gets hurt in Lubbock :eek:

MeMyself&Me

9/9/2010, 06:14 AM

a Junior idiot might have not frozen up in Boulder and Bradford likely would have been on deck if Bomar gets hurt in Lubbock :eek:

It wasn't quarterback play that lost the game in Boulder in '07. You can't get much more accurate than when bouncing balls of receivers hands and center of chest.

Joe

9/9/2010, 10:38 AM

JKM's input is sorely missed around here these days.

NormanPride

9/9/2010, 11:10 AM

He's busy coaching girl's basketball. I think OU football was too masculine. :D

rawlingsHOH

9/9/2010, 11:18 AM

i'm interested to hear his perspective on the D

he was saying that we could change schemes without Leach in the conference. Utah State was running a similar offense to theirs, from my understanding, so us not dealing well with that could be a calculated risk of not scheming for that style anymore?

To Tech's? Not at all.

Reminded me of Baylor. We played a similar defensive scheme that we used down in Waco in 2008, just didn't execute it as well. Safties were much more concerned with the ground game than they were in coverage. Corners on islands. Make QB beat us with arm.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

9/9/2010, 11:36 AM

NormanPride

9/9/2010, 11:48 AM

What happened to your boy, Madu? I remember coming out of high school you loved that kid. He's been all over the place, and none of it very good...

rawlingsHOH

9/9/2010, 12:17 PM

you guys sound like 04.

i posted my initial thoughts over here ->
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144188

i've tried, but i can't bring myself to watch the gamefilm. not because of how bad we played, but because i can't believe how slow murray is. he reminds me of gaddis when he came back in 91 :(

I thought the same thing. He would have smoked those fools on his first carry of the game, if it was '07. And the long touchdown it looked like he didn't want to open it up. It will be interesting what he times. They still said 4.4 as recent as last year.

Still a very good back. Just different.

soonerbub

9/9/2010, 12:46 PM

We'll need him to be durable this year that's for sure. If he can get a solid 4-4.5 a carry we can consistently move the chains which is about all I expect out of this offense (the pyrotechnics of 08 were once in a generation like 71).

The big factor to me is will landry ever learn to protect the football? If he throws 3+ pix on sat we are toast.

Soonermagik

9/9/2010, 01:22 PM

you guys sound like 04.

i posted my initial thoughts over here ->
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144188

i've tried, but i can't bring myself to watch the gamefilm. not because of how bad we played, but because i can't believe how slow murray is. he reminds me of gaddis when he came back in 91 :(

I believe Murray was given a first round grade. I'm guessing they still think he's fast. I do agree he's not as fast as he was his 1st year. He didn't look slow to me, but he seemed more patient in the run game.

I guess we will be able to tell more about his speed this week. I also want to see how Clay does speed wise against a team as atheltic as FSU.

Okie35

9/9/2010, 01:38 PM

I thought the same thing. He would have smoked those fools on his first carry of the game, if it was '07. And the long touchdown it looked like he didn't want to open it up. It will be interesting what he times. They still said 4.4 as recent as last year.

Still a very good back. Just different.

He gained weight. I know you can still maintain speed when you gain but come on. Yea he lost a little this year but I mean overall over the years. I still think he can run a 4.4. If he's on the watch list for the draft still I'm guessing he still has his speed. There are times when he still looks just as fast to me. In the USU game he really didn't have to use it.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

9/9/2010, 02:02 PM

What happened to your boy, Madu? I remember coming out of high school you loved that kid. He's been all over the place, and none of it very good...

he isn't the first or last player to lose his window because of a dumb coaching move. this year's OL doesn't fit a scat back at all (not just madu, but finch as well). they are fairly disciplined (surprised me) but they have an overwhelming tendency to just block the defender the way the defender is going. this tends to form pockets in the defense that a slasher can exploit (which is probably why clay is #2 on the depth chart since he is the only other slasher on the roster).

as a fan, its kind of frustrating watching this over the years. i knew cale when he was in college, so i don't expect outside of the box thinking from him - he'll take the best perceived talent every time. but you'd think one of our OL coaches would at some point say "this is how we are going to teach the OL to block, this is the type of runner that benefits from this style the most, go find one". draw the line at anything other than a once in a decade type runner.

i mean why do we even have calhoun and miller on the roster?

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

9/9/2010, 02:08 PM

track times vs speed in pads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6nOCef3Hic

around the 50 second mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xzWp6Zf4eE

around the 49 second mark

there is easily a .5 second difference in how long it takes him to cover 10 yards

rawlingsHOH

9/9/2010, 02:25 PM

i mean why do we even have calhoun and miller on the roster?

I had high hopes Calhoun could be our short yardage hammer this year. But it looks like they're opting for Millard instead.

NormanPride

9/9/2010, 03:44 PM

he isn't the first or last player to lose his window because of a dumb coaching move. this year's OL doesn't fit a scat back at all (not just madu, but finch as well). they are fairly disciplined (surprised me) but they have an overwhelming tendency to just block the defender the way the defender is going. this tends to form pockets in the defense that a slasher can exploit (which is probably why clay is #2 on the depth chart since he is the only other slasher on the roster).

as a fan, its kind of frustrating watching this over the years. i knew cale when he was in college, so i don't expect outside of the box thinking from him - he'll take the best perceived talent every time. but you'd think one of our OL coaches would at some point say "this is how we are going to teach the OL to block, this is the type of runner that benefits from this style the most, go find one". draw the line at anything other than a once in a decade type runner.

i mean why do we even have calhoun and miller on the roster?

Miller did really well last year until he got dinged up. Was I missing something?

rawlingsHOH

9/9/2010, 03:49 PM

I think he's insinuating that he is underused.

Collier11

9/9/2010, 03:56 PM

Miller asked for and is getting red-shirted so he can be 100% next year

GKeeper316

9/9/2010, 03:56 PM

according to stoops, USU ran a triple option similar to what we'll see vs. air force.

rawlingsHOH

9/9/2010, 04:13 PM

according to stoops, USU ran a triple option similar to what we'll see vs. air force.
Yeah, the even showed a little flexbone. Hopefully Air Force can't throw it equally as well!

NormanPride

9/9/2010, 04:18 PM

I don't think they have a QB nearly as slippery either...

sooneron

9/9/2010, 04:22 PM

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

9/9/2010, 04:56 PM

I think he's insinuating that he is underused.

i'm not saying that at all. outside of a few exceptions throughout the years (bassey in 2001, everage in 2002, bomar) i don't disagree with who our coaches put on the field. i have been critical of the level of available talent in some of those years, but i've always felt that, outside of mike stoops, our coaches put the best available players on the field.

what i AM saying is that our coaches are not very good at sticking to their guns regarding scheme/talent fit. miller is one of these guys that really doesn't have a role in our current offense. thus my question why did we recruit him?

NormanPride

9/9/2010, 05:43 PM

Depth. We didn't recruit any other RBs that year... I still think he's going to play, though.

rawlingsHOH

9/9/2010, 07:12 PM

i'm not saying that at all. outside of a few exceptions throughout the years (bassey in 2001, everage in 2002, bomar) i don't disagree with who our coaches put on the field. i have been critical of the level of available talent in some of those years, but i've always felt that, outside of mike stoops, our coaches put the best available players on the field.

Everage in 2002? Please expand.

what i AM saying is that our coaches are not very good at sticking to their guns regarding scheme/talent fit. miller is one of these guys that really doesn't have a role in our current offense. thus my question why did we recruit him?
I thought they saw Calhoun/Miller as a Brown/Murray type tandem. One a space guy, the other between the tackles.

rawlingsHOH

9/9/2010, 07:14 PM

Miller asked for and is getting red-shirted so he can be 100% next year
I thought that was a pretty predictable move last winter. Glad to hear!

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

9/9/2010, 10:28 PM

Everage in 2002? Please expand.

late in 2002 and 2003, everage's ankles were so shot he couldn't move laterally. we stuck with him even though it was obvious that teams were exploiting it - time and time again in some games. pokey state on the double move? kstate with the sproles screen isolated on him.

Collier11

9/9/2010, 10:40 PM

wasnt his shoulder blown up also?

sooneron

9/10/2010, 08:34 AM

wasnt his shoulder blow up also?

Yep, that's why he would always try to bring the wood with one shoulder and not wrap up effectively.

Collier11

9/10/2010, 12:39 PM

Ill never forget that hit on the Air Force QB

RedstickSooner

9/10/2010, 01:12 PM

Murray isn't slower this year. He just ate a really big meal before the game.

Yeah, that's the ticket. I've found my solace, and I'm sticking to it.

Because if he'd somehow lost not just a step, but seemingly an entire dance from '07 to now, that'd be really, really depressing.

SoonerAtKU

9/10/2010, 02:33 PM

God, those runs against Tulsa and Texas...his combination of agility and speed was just stunning.

He never had AD's power, of course, but I can only imagine what he could have accomplished with no lower-body injuries.

Collier11

9/10/2010, 02:35 PM

Im no pro at player evaluation but IMO Murray doesnt look slower, he looks less agile, like his hips are stiffer.

STEP, JKM?

stoops the eternal pimp

9/10/2010, 02:51 PM

Well I can tell you that if he had went to USC to play corner instead of OU to play RB, he never would have seen the field with those hips...

I would have to say he doesnt' have the home run ability speed wise..He is a very smooth runner that runs too upright sometimes which opens up the ball to get knocked out more...May not be a problem now, but will be in the NFL..He has to rely too much on the cut block IMO...

Even though he may not have top flight speed, he has good acceleration and has developed into a patient runner..

rawlingsHOH

9/10/2010, 02:57 PM

Im no pro at player evaluation but IMO Murray doesnt look slower, he looks less agile, like his hips are stiffer.

STEP, JKM?
Just watch the 07 Utah State vs 10 Utah State highlights. Looks like two entirely different runners. Still good, just different. Certainly his current stockier build translates better to the NFL game.

stoops the eternal pimp

9/10/2010, 02:58 PM

Probably a late 2nd to early 3rd round back as of today...his blocking out of the backfield and his receiving skills are a plus..

Collier11

9/10/2010, 03:20 PM

Just watch the 07 Utah State vs 10 Utah State highlights. Looks like two entirely different runners. Still good, just different. Certainly his current stockier build translates better to the NFL game.

Diff Olines as well

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

9/10/2010, 03:27 PM

Probably a late 2nd to early 3rd round back as of today...his blocking out of the backfield and his receiving skills are a plus..

honestly, i'll bet he times well at the combine. no pads, track shoes - he should be able to sneak a 4.4something. its not like other slow as crap players in pads haven't pulled off some impressive times there.

Diff Olines as well

that's random. what i was trying to show was similar runs and how demarco's lost explosiveness with pads on. like rawlings is alluding too - its the difference between the young buck and the wiley vet. gaddis had a great year his senior year. the problem was you always remembered what might have been.

Collier11

9/10/2010, 03:31 PM

stoops the eternal pimp

9/10/2010, 03:33 PM

honestly, i'll bet he times well at the combine. no pads, track shoes - he should be able to sneak a 4.4something. its not like other slow as crap players in pads haven't pulled off some impressive times there.
.

Just knowing that track, its definitely possible, but I would have to guess 4.5-4.55 using the hand start-electric finish..

kelloggOUballa

9/10/2010, 03:41 PM

He's still fast as heck! I think he was close to 4.2-4.3 out of high school and his freshman year.

stoops the eternal pimp

9/10/2010, 03:42 PM

Every RB and WR recruit in the country is that fast coming out of high school

Collier11

9/10/2010, 03:43 PM

more like a legit 4.4, not many people actually run a 4.3, they just tell you they do

stoops the eternal pimp

9/10/2010, 03:47 PM

hand start-hand finish times are 101 % of the time too fast and full of error..which is where most of these high school numbers come from

Kind of a RoT is when you get a high school 40 time, add .22

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

9/10/2010, 04:10 PM

I agree with you all, he does look alot less explosive and his cuts arent as fluid as I mentioned in my earlier post, the O-line comment was in reference to 07 vs 10 vs utah st. I was just saying that a good O line can make you look alot faster

okay, that is the reason i was stating count how many seconds it takes him to run 10 yards. at some point in the future i wouldn't be surprised if there is a program that consumes video and gives you an accurate in game football speed of a player.

KantoSooner

9/10/2010, 04:11 PM

But, what happens if they then go to an SEC school?

Collier11

9/10/2010, 04:14 PM

okay, that is the reason i was stating count how many seconds it takes him to run 10 yards. at some point in the future i wouldn't be surprised if there is a program that consumes video and gives you an accurate in game football speed of a player.

the thing is, do we really know in the 2nd video if he was fully accelerated or not?

Collier11

9/10/2010, 04:14 PM

But, what happens if they then go to an SEC school?

Usain Bolt pisses lightning

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi

9/10/2010, 04:15 PM

He's still fast as heck! I think he was close to 4.2-4.3 out of high school and his freshman year.

fast as heck means you run away from defensive backs. murray isn't doing that, he's staying even with them. he is, to his credit, using angles against defenders to maximize yardage.

in summary - at this point in his career, he has above average speed, good vision, and good understanding of how to get yards. and of the 3, honestly i prefer #3 over the other 2.