Help with Ceiling fan install (electric Ques.)

[colleyvillesooner]

So i am installing a new ceiling fan in out littel guys room after his old started popping and sparking and did this:

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/976/photo2kae.jpg

When i got it down, it has two sets of complete wires (hot, common and ground).

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/3844/photo1ot.jpg

The wires from the fan motor and light kit were tied together with both sets coming from the ceiling. This fan was wired like this since we got the house, so i do not think that was what caused the short. Is it safe to just hook it back up the way it ways, just matching both sets from the ceiling to the set from the fan?

TIA!

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Why would it not be the reason it caused the damage to the existing fan?

The true question is how you actuate the fan and light. If the fan and light are on separate switches/potentiometers on the wall, then you need to differentiate which leg is on which switch. To tie them together, all together, is essentially creating a 220V circuit, a fire waiting to happen.

In other words, isolate each leg and wire each leg to the light kit and fan respectively.

[oumartin]

Ya know, wire it wrong and you'll never have to worry about the misses asking you to do another household job again!


[Bill Cosby]We are dumb, yet we are not so dumb[Bill Cosby]

[colleyvillesooner]

There is only one switch on the wall. Coming out of the new fan is one black, green, white and one blue wire. So maybe I tie the blue from the fan to the white in switch, all three blacks together and the grounds together.

There is a diagram showing this in the manual. Only thing I would have to figure out is which white is coming from the switch and which is coming from the main power.

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/669/photoqn.jpg

Would this work?

[Okla-homey]

Why would it not be the reason it caused the damage to the existing fan?

The true question is how you actuate the fan and light. If the fan and light are on separate switches/potentiometers on the wall, then you need to differentiate which leg is on which switch. To tie them together, all together, is essentially creating a 220V circuit, a fire waiting to happen.

In other words, isolate each leg and wire each leg to the light kit and fan respectively.

What he said. And I would add, only because he didin't, although I'm reasonably certain he would agree, jury-rigged wiring causes housefires. a lot.
Not up there with unattended candles and smoking-related issues, but right up there.

[colleyvillesooner]

What he said. And I would add, only because he didin't, although I'm reasonably certain he would agree, jury-rigged wiring causes housefires. a lot.
Not up there with unattended candles and smoking-related issues, but right up there.

I agree 100%. That's why I'm asking. If i ever have a doubt, I call our electrician to finish the job.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

There is only one switch on the wall. Coming out of the new fan is one black, green, white and one blue wire. So maybe I tie the blue from the fan to the white in switch, all three blacks together and the grounds together.

There is a diagram showing this in the manual. Only thing I would have to figure out is which white is coming from the switch and which is coming from the main power.

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/669/photoqn.jpg

Would this work?

Get your multimeter. Set it to 200V AC or similar setting.

Make sure the wiring from the ceiling is all separated or wire nutted for safety, turn ON the appropriate breaker, and turn OFF the switch on the wall. See, the reason the diagram isn't jiving with your particular set of circumstances is that you have two individual legs coming to the outlet box, hence the assumption of there possibly being two switches/potentiometers at the wall plate. With there being only one switch, we now know there's one constant hot for the fan, one switched hot for the light. Now we can begin with the correct wiring.

Use your multimeter with the above configuration of breakers/switches. The hot leg is the fan leg. The dead leg is the light leg. Mark them accordingly with tape.

Ground is ground. Ensure any and all green wiring on the fan is connected to the common on the outlet box or the chassis of the fan.

Black wires. Once you've determined which leg is light and which is fan, kill the breaker. Black light leg to blue. Black fan leg to black.

White wires. Bring white neutral legs together and wire nut.

When that's all done, it is my recommendation you set a two-gang box in the wall, remove the hot fan leg and drop it to a pot in the second gang. Romex back up and to the fan. With that set up, you can control fan speed from the wall AND have that leg switched should something get wonky in that fan again. It's an amazingly easy reroute, functional, and safer than your current set-up.

Good luck!

[Leroy Lizard]

So i am installing a new ceiling fan in out littel guys room after his old started popping and sparking and did this:

Sounds like you need an exorcist. :D

[bluedogok]

When i got it down, it has two sets of complete wires (hot, common and ground).

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/3844/photo1ot.jpg

The wires from the fan motor and light kit were tied together with both sets coming from the ceiling. This fan was wired like this since we got the house, so i do not think that was what caused the short. Is it safe to just hook it back up the way it ways, just matching both sets from the ceiling to the set from the fan?

TIA!
Do you have a wall socket in the room that is switched? One set could be running to that from the ceiling fan, ours in the living room is wired like that. Not the best way to do it but it is done a bunch, if you have a tester you could check to see if the circuit goes somewhere else (with the breaker off).
If you aren't sure, get an electrician.

[olevetonahill]

Bro , If the Old fan was wired like you said , then the new one will work wired the same way. No idea why 2 sets of wires are there except as was said a wall outlet that works off the switch also.

Reason I say its safe is the simple fact that its worked however long that old fan has been there. Fans can and do short out.

The biggest thing you need to worry about is to make sure ALL connections are TIGHT,

[colleyvillesooner]

Just got back from picking up a multimeter and am about to get started.

[PLaw]

Okay - are there two switches on the wall? one for the fan and one for the light kit?

But, by the time you've read this the fan is either working or you have burned the house down.

Sounds like the old fan had a short which caused it get smoked.

[SoonerJack]

When I saw the thread title I was really hoping it was a Sicem thread.

But good luck with the re-wire, colleyville.

[yermom]

When that's all done, it is my recommendation you set a two-gang box in the wall, remove the hot fan leg and drop it to a pot in the second gang. Romex back up and to the fan.

English please? :D

[colleyvillesooner]

ok, new problem. Tested both black wires in the ceiling without doing anything else (breaker on, switch off, and both were reading 0 on the meter. Flip the switch on, and both read 113. So i decided to take off the switch and see what we are working with there.

Holy. Crap.

After pulling the switch out to see the wires, all of them pulled out and i got this mess:

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5162/photo13h.jpg


There are FOUR black wires, one which is still plugged in in the picture. I noticed that when they came out the outlet with my sons sound machine (which luckily was on for some reason) shut off. So the switch was passing the signal to that outlet, but i am almost positive that while the old fan has been out, the power switch was in the off position and that sound machine would still work. Also, the closet light and outlet right out side it now shut off with the light switch, as well as one other outlet.

Anyways, I have no idea what order the wires went in, but i did find the only one with a current when the power is on. It is marked with black electrical tape in the picture below. I plugged them all back in, and now. the outlet works, the closet and other outlets all work, but all work off the outlet switch. When the switch is down, they all shut off. There is one outlet that is not affected by any of this, it only shuts off when the breaker is off. Also, now when the switch is on, only one wire in the ceiling gives off current. (123)

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6271/photo12g.jpg

I am fairly certain i now just have them plugged in wrong, but don't know enough about these switches to knwo where to plug each one in. All i know is there are three places for wires, each having two slots for a wire. 1 of these three has a black screw the others brass.

[colleyvillesooner]

Is it possible that with four wires, and knowing two end up a the celing fan, that some of the outlets power off each other? If that makes sense? The three out lets that now (thanks to me) turn on and off with the switch go in a clockwise pattern from the wall switch.

[btk108]

Where is Bob Villa when you need him?

[colleyvillesooner]

no ****, right?

[olevetonahill]

Yer house is wired weird, Call yer electrician,Didnt you just have a similar prob? This is yer SONS room , dont take a ****in chance.;)

[colleyvillesooner]

Yes, every time i do something electrical, it's wired different than normal.

[olevetonahill]

Yes, every time i do something electrical, it's wired different than normal.

I have a feeling I know whats going on , But Im not willing to take a chance trying to walk you thru it Bro .

Hell if the Fan and or Light shorted out and just thru sparks , the little one could get burned , It aint worth it Bro .

[Okla-homey]

Colley,

Methinks you have some "non-standard" wiring in su casa. Perhaps the remnants of previous DIY projects? By former owners?

Me also think you need to have a licensed electrician to check it out.

Shouldn't be more than 100 bucks. Unless you need some new wiring. Keep your fingers crossed. Your wires, evidently, already are.

[SicEmBaylor]

When I saw the thread title I was really hoping it was a Sicem thread.


Heh, so was I.

[AlbqSooner]

I know 3 things about electricity.
1. It is invisible.
2. It can kill you.
3. It does not tolerate a fool.

That being the case, I call someone who knows about that stuff.

[colleyvillesooner]

Colley,

Methinks you have some "non-standard" wiring in su casa. Perhaps the remnants of previous DIY projects? By former owners?

Me also think you need to have a licensed electrician to check it out.

Shouldn't be more than 100 bucks. Unless you need some new wiring. Keep your fingers crossed. Your wires, evidently, already are.

I agree. I usually get halfway through a project, run into something like this and end up calling our guy. i swear, when i changed out the living room outlets, every one was different. 6 of em.

Thanks for the advice. See you Saturday.

[Leroy Lizard]

I know 3 things about electricity.
1. It is invisible.


You live in Oklahoma?

[AlbqSooner]

Albq is not in Oklahoma. Check Google.

No, wait. You never bother to check.

[colleyvillesooner]

Oh, no you don't. We're not doing this to my home improvement thread.

[thesnowbishop]

I have a feeling I know whats going on , But Im not willing to take a chance trying to walk you thru it Bro .

Hell if the Fan and or Light shorted out and just thru sparks , the little one could get burned , It aint worth it Bro .


I concur, the romex going through the outside of the switch box is concerning enough, but if that's also a 3-way switch, then I can't use colored pencils to walk you through that one. There could also very well be another make-up box in the attic, so what you might think is a hot wire (usually black) may very well be a neutral. Hell, I've even seen switched neutrals (a definite no-no). Call a licensed electrician.

[C&CDean]

If your question was about 12-volt DC I'd be all over it. That's why one of my sons is an electrician. Any time I run into a wiring job, I call the boy.

[colleyvillesooner]

Called my guy today and he didn't call me back. Time
To get a new electrician.

And Dean, CHECK YOUR PEEMS!!!

[btk108]

Let us know what you find out.

and I think Dean's peemer is broken