BYU steps down to the WCC, Independent in Football

[bent rider]

Wow. Their backroom maneuvering killed the MWC and the WAC, so they bail-out to the WCC where the enrollments are 1/4 to 1/3 their size. Who is going to schedule a WCC team as an independent in football??? And they just hosed all their previous collaborators. They think they're like Notre Dame, but more like Army or Navy as far as their affiliations now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5517305

[King Barry's Back]

And they just hosed all their previous collaborators.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5517305

They just hosed themselves. Being an independent football "power" is a tough go. Being a WCC member is a disaster.

BYU may have just disappeared from the national college sports landscape.

[OK2U]

Byu fans here in Salt Lake are stoked, Ute fans are laughing all the way to the bank.

[PalmBeachSooner]

Wow. Their backroom maneuvering killed the MWC and the WAC, so they bail-out to the WCC where the enrollments are 1/4 to 1/3 their size. Who is going to schedule a WCC team as an independent in football??? And they just hosed all their previous collaborators. They think they're like Notre Dame, but more like Army or Navy as far as their affiliations now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5517305

I think it's a pretty good move on their part football wise. They have a lot of flexibility in their scheduling. Could be financially better for them.

However, it seems like they sold out the rest of their sports programs...or did they? They might dominate the WCC, but not sure where that would get them. A 16 seed in the NCAA BB tourney?

[Brink]

Who do they think they are? Notre Dame?

I bet they eventually end up in the Big 12. :D

[Scott D]

BYU is going to try to stay independent in football as long as possible.

Right now they're in the position that * wishes they were in. They have their own television network (on many providers..so they claim an estimated 50 million sets), they really didn't need the MWC for revenue as they are a flagship in their own right. It will allow them to schedule cupcake schedules (hopefully renewing an annual rivalry with Hawaii again).

On the negative side of things, they aren't Notre Dame, and unless they avoid scheduling 6-9 creampuffs they won't be anywhere in the BCS picture, and they certainly aren't going to get cut the same type of side deal that ND has.

[badger]

The WAC, MWC and BYU were having a contest to see who could give each other the bigger middle finger.

[Scott D]

the WAC has already lost this fight.

[Jacie]

The WAC, MWC and BYU were having a contest to see who could give each other the bigger middle finger.

The Mormons aren't exactly sure what that gesture means but are 90% certain it is something bad . . .

[badger]

The Mormons aren't exactly sure what that gesture means but are 90% certain it is something bad . . .

Right, right... hmm... what would be the non-vulgar equivalent...hmmm...

BYU, WAC and MWC were holding a contest who could cast the finger of shame the longest (where you point at something and yell "SHAME!") and in the end, all three were shamed tremendously.

[Leroy Lizard]

The Mormons aren't exactly sure what that gesture means but are 90% certain it is something bad . . .

Oh, that was good.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Yeah, it's a laugh a minute around here.

[GKeeper316]

na na na na

heeeey heyy heyyy

goodbye!

[Mississippi Sooner]

It's like a slap fight between 12 year old girls. There's a lot of screaming, and maybe even a small amount of blood, but in the end, it's not like they knock down any walls.

[badger]

it really is silly, isn't it? :)

[GKeeper316]

and BYU was all like "what? we don't like money... it's like caffine or something"

[Tigeman]

BYU is just maneuvering for their Big 12 invite. They've already publicly stated it.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'll actually really like it if they do join. I have BYU worshipping inlaws, so it could make for some real fun for me.

[yermom]

who would come with them if they joined the Big 12?

the Big 12 must really be holding it close to the vest on this deal. i can't imagine they really want to only have 10 teams

[badger]

the Big 12 must really be holding it close to the vest on this deal.

Dan Beebe's poker face screams "I have a secret that I wanna tell"
http://startelegramsports.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54f7fc4c5883301053613f955970c-450wi

[Frozen Sooner]

I think it's a pretty good move on their part football wise. They have a lot of flexibility in their scheduling. Could be financially better for them.

However, it seems like they sold out the rest of their sports programs...or did they? They might dominate the WCC, but not sure where that would get them. A 16 seed in the NCAA BB tourney?

I'm pretty sure Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and USD might have something to say about BYU "dominating" the WCC in basketball.

[TexasLidig8r]

They just hosed themselves. Being an independent football "power" is a tough go. Being a WCC member is a disaster.

BYU may have just disappeared from the national college sports landscape.

Look at the dollars and cents and the long term plans.

First, BYU's television revenue from the MWC was only about $2 million a year. The BYU network is already up and allegedly already accessible by 50 million cable subscribers. This revenue will not be split with anyone. Since they did not have to partner with Fox, their revenue is not split with a network (unlike the Big 10/11/12). This huge jump in revenue will result in increased spending on facilities.

They have the only on campus high def television facility and hi def truck.

As for scheduling, they have already signed to play Texas in 2011, 2013, 2014. Now, why would Texas agree to this? What did we require in return for a big exposure game against a high profile university? Access to their foundational plans for their network? Maybe preliminary discussions have already occurred regarding usage and partnership with their television facilities?

One of two things could logically mushroom from this. 1). BYU uses the independence route as a means to get into the Big 12... or an expanded Pac 10 while being able to keep their television revenue.. or 2). This is a harbinger of things to come, Texas sees how BYU fares with its independence, enters into a joint venture agreement with BYU which facilitates the Longhorn Network's birth and rapid expansion leading to Texas' independence.

In any event, I see this as a shrewd long term move in which BYU is positioning itself for greater revenue, more exposure and more financial stability. BYU appears to be playing chess while the MWC, WAC, WCC are playing checkers.

[PalmBeachSooner]

Look at the dollars and cents and the long term plans.

First, BYU's television revenue from the MWC was only about $2 million a year. The BYU network is already up and allegedly already accessible by 50 million cable subscribers. This revenue will not be split with anyone. Since they did not have to partner with Fox, their revenue is not split with a network (unlike the Big 10/11/12). This huge jump in revenue will result in increased spending on facilities.

They have the only on campus high def television facility and hi def truck.

As for scheduling, they have already signed to play Texas in 2011, 2013, 2014. Now, why would Texas agree to this? What did we require in return for a big exposure game against a high profile university? Access to their foundational plans for their network? Maybe preliminary discussions have already occurred regarding usage and partnership with their television facilities?

One of two things could logically mushroom from this. 1). BYU uses the independence route as a means to get into the Big 12... or an expanded Pac 10 while being able to keep their television revenue.. or 2). This is a harbinger of things to come, Texas sees how BYU fares with its independence, enters into a joint venture agreement with BYU which facilitates the Longhorn Network's birth and rapid expansion leading to Texas' independence.

In any event, I see this as a shrewd long term move in which BYU is positioning itself for greater revenue, more exposure and more financial stability. BYU appears to be playing chess while the MWC, WAC, WCC are playing checkers.

Didn't Texas declare independance like a hunert billion years ago?

[Salt City Sooner]

Look at the dollars and cents and the long term plans.

First, BYU's television revenue from the MWC was only about $2 million a year. The BYU network is already up and allegedly already accessible by 50 million cable subscribers. This revenue will not be split with anyone. Since they did not have to partner with Fox, their revenue is not split with a network (unlike the Big 10/11/12). This huge jump in revenue will result in increased spending on facilities.

They have the only on campus high def television facility and hi def truck.

As for scheduling, they have already signed to play Texas in 2011, 2013, 2014. Now, why would Texas agree to this? What did we require in return for a big exposure game against a high profile university? Access to their foundational plans for their network? Maybe preliminary discussions have already occurred regarding usage and partnership with their television facilities?

One of two things could logically mushroom from this. 1). BYU uses the independence route as a means to get into the Big 12... or an expanded Pac 10 while being able to keep their television revenue.. or 2). This is a harbinger of things to come, Texas sees how BYU fares with its independence, enters into a joint venture agreement with BYU which facilitates the Longhorn Network's birth and rapid expansion leading to Texas' independence.

In any event, I see this as a shrewd long term move in which BYU is positioning itself for greater revenue, more exposure and more financial stability. BYU appears to be playing chess while the MWC, WAC, WCC are playing checkers.
They may not have had to do it, but they did. I just saw on the scroll that they've got a deal w/ ESPN for their home games from 2011-18. Also, they struck a 6 game deal w/ Notre Dame.

[rawlingsHOH]

Wow. Their backroom maneuvering killed the MWC and the WAC, so they bail-out to the WCC where the enrollments are 1/4 to 1/3 their size. Who is going to schedule a WCC team as an independent in football??? And they just hosed all their previous collaborators. They think they're like Notre Dame, but more like Army or Navy as far as their affiliations now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5517305

Not understanding you there.

[bent rider]

Look at the dollars and cents and the long term plans.

First, BYU's television revenue from the MWC was only about $2 million a year. The BYU network is already up and allegedly already accessible by 50 million cable subscribers. This revenue will not be split with anyone. Since they did not have to partner with Fox, their revenue is not split with a network (unlike the Big 10/11/12). This huge jump in revenue will result in increased spending on facilities.
There is no advertising on that network. Its provided to cable systems for free as part of their proselytizing efforts, and the cable systems are required to have a number of channels that are non-profit educational/religious. How do they make money on byu-tv? PBS-like "sponsorships"??



They have the only on campus high def television facility and hi def truck.

Lack of a High-Def TV truck of their own never stopped OU foootball from being on television.



As for scheduling, they have already signed to play Texas in 2011, 2013, 2014. Now, why would Texas agree to this? What did we require in return for a big exposure game against a high profile university? Access to their foundational plans for their network? Maybe preliminary discussions have already occurred regarding usage and partnership with their television facilities?

You really believe Texas doesn't know how to buy or rent a TV truck?



One of two things could logically mushroom from this. 1). BYU uses the independence route as a means to get into the Big 12... or an expanded Pac 10 while being able to keep their television revenue.. or 2). This is a harbinger of things to come, Texas sees how BYU fares with its independence, enters into a joint venture agreement with BYU which facilitates the Longhorn Network's birth and rapid expansion leading to Texas' independence.

Again, if Texas wanted to do that, and it was in their best interests, which it is not since they now have access to the Big-12 AQ status and Big-12 bowl games, they could do it their own selves.


In any event, I see this as a shrewd long term move in which BYU is positioning itself for greater revenue, more exposure and more financial stability. BYU appears to be playing chess while the MWC, WAC, WCC are playing checkers.
We'll see, it seems to me it was an act of desperation to try to "keep up with the Joneses" after the University of Utah was invited to the Pac-10/12, they were not getting any further with talks with the Big-12, and their backdoor maneuvering to get into the WAC blew-up on them and some of their WAC buddies (hello, Utah State). They did line-up a few high profile games and that may be enough to make the independent football program financially viable, but what are the other 8-9 football games going to look like? They are not going to get into a BCS bowl this way; too many weak teams at home and they have not fared well recently playing BCS teams on the road.

Furthermore, they have sold their other sports down the river. Even with Gonzaga, basketball in the WCC is not as good top-to-bottom as the MWC and their arenas are like 5000-8000 vs 12,000 in the MWC. WCC does not even have all the sports that byu has. They will have to drop or make their own schedule in sports like softball.

[cougartroll2009]

I'm a BYU fan who registered here last year in the lead-up to last season's opener. I really enjoyed the banter and (overall) intelligent and funny give-and-take here (especially the "Bronco Mendenhall _________" thread, and the BYU player look-alike thread. Hilarious, and in good taste, for the most part).

BYU will do just fine as a football independent, and the WCC affiliation will be good for its other sports, with a few exceptions (like softball, as pointed out above). I also think that a Big 12 invite is a part of the bigger picture, and the Big 12 is a much better conference than the Pac-10. Our joke, after Utah left for the Pac-10 but before we left the MWC, was that we would still play them every year in the Las Vegas Bowl (MWC #1 vs. Pac-10 #5).

The important thing to understand is BYU's football team, and to a lesser but still significant extent, its basketball teams' roles in providing exposure for the Mormon Church. Athletics is second to only the full-time missionaries around the world in this from a big-picture standpoint (while person-to-person is most effective on an individual and personal level). This move wasn't about money, although BYU easily makes more through this route (100% of bowl money, unshared with conference members; 100% of ESPN money for home games, etc.). The fact that BYU-TV has such high cable/satellite penetration helps availability/accessibility, but not really revenue.

The interesting thing as this all unfolded was that, while the WAC, MWC, regional media, etc. were all stabbing each other in the back and castigating BYU, BYU notably said *nothing.* Complete radio silence. The back-stabbing furor and feeding frenzy involved everybody else --- BYU simply appeared to not be renewing their conference contract by September 1, which caused all of the conference poaching in attempts to deep-six BYU's plan A (affiliate with the WAC for non-football sports --- the MWC cannibalized Fresno St. and Nevada to ruin that).

So, the bottom line from my perspective is that this is not about money or being in the BCS conversation, although both would be nice. This is more a carefully planned and executed move to leverage BYU athletics to expose more people to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's inevitable --- whenever BYU is on a nationally-televised game, the commentators *always* discuss aspects of BYU as a university and the lives of its players (and hence the Church) in a way that reflects well on the Church. And this is a good thing for people who are open and/or curious who know Mormons or who have the missionaries knock on their door.

[bent rider]

BYU will do just fine as a football independent, and the WCC affiliation will be good for its other sports, with a few exceptions (like softball, as pointed out above). I also think that a Big 12 invite is a part of the bigger picture, and the Big 12 is a much better conference than the Pac-10. Our joke, after Utah left for the Pac-10 but before we left the MWC, was that we would still play them every year in the Las Vegas Bowl (MWC #1 vs. Pac-10 #5).

I'm sure BYU fans hope that will be true, but Utah's record against Pac-10 teams suggests they'll fare better than #5, and should only improve as recruiting improves after joining the Pac12.


The important thing to understand is BYU's football team, and to a lesser but still significant extent, its basketball teams' roles in providing exposure for the Mormon Church. Athletics is second to only the full-time missionaries around the world in this from a big-picture standpoint (while person-to-person is most effective on an individual and personal level). This move wasn't about money, although BYU easily makes more through this route (100% of bowl money, unshared with conference members; 100% of ESPN money for home games, etc.). The fact that BYU-TV has such high cable/satellite penetration helps availability/accessibility, but not really revenue.

100% of ESPN money for home games? You know they will have to pay the visiting teams to come to Provo? What bowl game revenue. At least the MWC had _some_ bowl tie-ins.

The Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah Witnesses and other hyper-prostelytizing churches don't seem to need football teams, basketball teams, etc, to improve their image. Maybe the church should look itself in the mirror at its practices, past practices, legal rap sheet of its founder, etc, before thinking BYU is going to change people's willingness to sign-up.


The interesting thing as this all unfolded was that, while the WAC, MWC, regional media, etc. were all stabbing each other in the back and castigating BYU, BYU notably said *nothing.* Complete radio silence. The back-stabbing furor and feeding frenzy involved everybody else --- BYU simply appeared to not be renewing their conference contract by September 1, which caused all of the conference poaching in attempts to deep-six BYU's plan A (affiliate with the WAC for non-football sports --- the MWC cannibalized Fresno St. and Nevada to ruin that).

Wow, you really are brainwashed. Read the Salt Lake Tribune. They have copies of all the email that shows how BYU conspired with USU and planned to lock-in all the WAC teams from moving up to a better conference to insure their success in the WAC. Then when Fresno and Nevada pulled out they reneged on the deal with USU and the WAC, blowing USU's chance to move up to the MWC. This is doing a lot of good for the Mormon flagship's reputation within their state.



So, the bottom line from my perspective is that this is not about money or being in the BCS conversation, although both would be nice. This is more a carefully planned and executed move to leverage BYU athletics to expose more people to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's inevitable --- whenever BYU is on a nationally-televised game, the commentators *always* discuss aspects of BYU as a university and the lives of its players (and hence the Church) in a way that reflects well on the Church. And this is a good thing for people who are open and/or curious who know Mormons or who have the missionaries knock on their door.

I hope they talk about how narrow-minded puritanical thinking put an early end to Harvey Unga's college career just because his girl friend got pregnant. Maybe its just me, but BYU's treatment of the Ungas didn't seem very pro-family, or even consistent with Christian forgiveness and understanding to me. This is the legacy of BYU sports.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

wow..people care about BYU going independant here?

[cougartroll2009]

100% of ESPN money for home games?

Well, right now there is *zero* ESPN money, because of the dreadful conference contract with the mtn. (the MWC network), which practically nobody gets (many providers in MWC territory don't carry it, and it can be hard to find a place to watch the game on a Saturday).


You know they will have to pay the visiting teams to come to Provo?

Of course. Just like now . . .


What bowl game revenue? At least the MWC had _some_ bowl tie-ins.

BYU is not going to have any problem getting to bowl games as an independent. For Pete's sake, bowls love to have them because, rather than "travelling well," there are BYU fans all over the place (read: there are Mormons all over the place) who come to away games, whether in the South, the Midwest, the Northeast, etc.


The Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah Witnesses and other hyper-prostelytizing churches don't seem to need football teams, basketball teams, etc, to improve their image.

It's not a question of "improving image," as you say, but rather using the means and influence at one's disposal to further one's mission and purpose. Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventists, etc., go about things in a completely different way and are in completely different situations altogether. Both from a growth and influence standpoint.


Maybe the church should look itself in the mirror at its practices, past practices, legal rap sheet of its founder, etc, before thinking BYU is going to change people's willingness to sign-up.

It's one of many factors in people's openness to consider the Church as a possibility. I would never claim that BYU sports is or should be *the* conversion factor, but it is in the public eye and is a conversation piece. I'm from Chicago, and went to high school when BYU beat #1 Miami and Ty Detmer won the Heisman. A lot of people who would otherwise never have thought about the Church, Church standards, etc. did as a direct result of BYU athletics. I served as a missionary for two years in northern Germany, and I can tell you that Mormonism is also much more intriguing and an item of public interest there than other churches. There are reasons for that.

As for "look[ing] itself in the mirror at its practices, past practices, legal rap sheet of its founder," how do Jesus Christ and the Church He founded fare under that standard? How would the Sanhedrin have represented His "rap sheet?" Or the Romans? What did Romans and Greeks think about the "practices, past practices" of early Christians? What's really interesting is the fact that Joseph Smith was *never* convicted of anything, despite being jailed and harassed at law during his 39 years of life. This is remarkable, considering the hostile venues and juries he was tried in throughout his life. He was finally murdered by a mob in jail when it became clear that this latest attempt was going to fail, too (why lynch him, otherwise?). Is it hypocritical to point to “rap sheets” in his case, but not apply that same standard to Jesus Christ (who was not only tried, but convicted and executed)? Something to think about.


Wow, you really are brainwashed. Read the Salt Lake Tribune. They have copies of all the email that shows how BYU conspired with USU and planned to lock-in all the WAC teams from moving up to a better conference to insure their success in the WAC.

Yes, the preferred plan was to affiliate with the WAC for non-football sports, and Utah State was working with BYU on that score.


Then when Fresno and Nevada pulled out they reneged on the deal with USU and the WAC, blowing USU's chance to move up to the MWC. This is doing a lot of good for the Mormon flagship's reputation within their state.

Well, things changed with Fresno and Nevada leaving, and it no longer was feasible. The MWC’s attempt to cut off BYU at the knees solidified what I think was an inevitable thing, anyway. This is not hurting BYU's "flagship reputation within their state;" most people, USU above all, understand.


I hope they talk about how narrow-minded puritanical thinking put an early end to Harvey Unga's college career just because his girl friend got pregnant. Maybe its just me, but BYU's treatment of the Ungas didn't seem very pro-family, or even consistent with Christian forgiveness and understanding to me. This is the legacy of BYU sports.

Harvey Unga reported himself and voluntarily withdrew because he had violated the Honor Code. I thought this was extremely honorable and classy. Repentance means recognizing that you have sinned, being genuinely sorry for it (not just sorry you were caught or found out), asking God for forgiveness, changing your behavior, and making restitution where possible. In Unga's case, he felt that offering to withdraw (living up to and accepting the consequences of his violation) was part of what he could do by way of restitution. My hat's off to him and his (now) wife, and I wish him the best.

Now contrast that with the disconnect among evangelical Christianity between professed standards and actual Christian living. Many pastors and churches are concerned with the proliferation in recent decades of fornication, adultery, pornography, etc. among otherwise professed "born again" Christians. And these same professed "born again" Christians then typically lash out at Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventists, etc. and others who give more than lip service to the importance of obedience to the commandments and true repentance.

[soonerhubs]

wow..people care about BYU going independant here?

Apparently so. Pathetic, wouldn't you say?

[OUmd]

cougartroll:

I am LDS, was raised in Oklahoma, and the only member of my immediate family to have not gone to BYU. All my life I have heard about BYU's "mission" of athletics. I know it is easy to look at things from the inside and assume how they are perceived from the outside, but we all know this is not reality.

I wish BYU the best, but like it or not 90% of the college football world looks at the Y's recent activities as prideful, arrogant, greedy, and selfish. If this is how the Church wants to be "represented" they achieved their goal. As a member of the Church, I would prefer to be viewed in other ways.

I was ashamed of Texas', the Big 12, and OU's transparent money-driven fiasco that happened this past summer and I have no problem admitting it. It sickens me that most BYU fans won't admit the same thing and continue to use the "mission" of the Church to justify similar actions. Every school or other institution in this world will inherently, and often unfortunately, do what is best for them and get's them the most money and exposure and BYU is no different. To justify it behind the gospel of Jesus Christ is just evil.

It is freakin' football and NOT part of the plan of salvation.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Apparently so. Pathetic, wouldn't you say?

Football season has started!

[bent rider]

BYU is not going to have any problem getting to bowl games as an independent. For Pete's sake, bowls love to have them because, rather than "travelling well," there are BYU fans all over the place (read: there are Mormons all over the place) who come to away games, whether in the South, the Midwest, the Northeast, etc.


BYU "travels well" to the Las Vegas bowl because there are millions of Mormons lving in Las Vegas and within driving distance in utah and California. The Las Vegas bowl is locked-in with the MWC and Pac-10, however.


What's really interesting is the fact that Joseph Smith was *never* convicted of anything, despite being jailed and harassed at law during his 39 years of life.

Sorry to everyone else who doesn't care...just for the record... the fact is Joseph Smith was convicted of defrauding a farmer by charging him to find buried treasure using seer stones in Palmyra, New York in March of 1826 --before he even founded Mormonism (coincidentallly by using the same methods) -- and was convicted of securites fraud in Ohio in 1838 for his role in the Mormon "Anti-Bank" Kirtland Savings Bank. He ran to Missouri to escape further fines and punishment. Although he was killed "by a mob" in Illinois, at the time he was being held for trial for a number of offenses including multiple counts of bigamy.

back to sports business...


Well, things changed with Fresno and Nevada leaving, and it no longer was feasible. The MWC’s attempt to cut off BYU at the knees solidified what I think was an inevitable thing, anyway. This is not hurting BYU's "flagship reputation within their state;" most people, USU above all, understand.


Well the USU President (formerly of BYU, oddly enough) is under a lot of heat from alums for being more loyal to this plan than to the best interests of USU.



Harvey Unga reported himself and voluntarily withdrew because he had violated the Honor Code. I thought this was extremely honorable and classy.

It was real "honorable" to withdraw when your fiance' is 6 months pregnant, and she must have been "showing" on campus or at least obvious to the athletic trainers (she was a basketball player). He had to withdraw, it was his only hope of appealing for re-instatement in time for the 2010 football season. Apparently either he or his coaches thought he could do that, but it turned out to be futile. As it was, he should have just declared for the NFL draft.

If my math is correct (baby born in July) the honor code violation occured in the middle of the 2009 football season. He could have admitted it any time between then and April.

In any event I think that terminating anyone's college career for such an offense is not the right thing to do, but then again I'm not running "The Lords University".