The MSM should now be called the Democratic Party Media...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Proof that the Democratic Media is not "unbiased"...88% of Network stoolies gave money to Dems and Oblahma (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Obama-Democrats-got-88-percent-of-TV-network-employee-campaign-contributions-101668063.html)

Since Foxnews may cancel out CNN, I would like to demand 3 conservative networks to counter the ABC/NBC/CBS block of unfairness...Or at least rebutal time per the Dems idea of fairness.

[1890MilesToNorman]

You are stating the obvious, jes turn the **** off, I did about 6 or 7 years ago and I'm a happier guy now! :D

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Oh, I don't watch them, I was just reporting on what we already knew and the Democratic Party Media was trying to convince us that we were wrong. NOT!

I stopped watching all news media long ago, in fact my Sunday morning paper ritual is becoming less and less a ritual. Cant' tell you when the last time I bought a paper outside of Sunday...

[NormanPride]

You don't watch, but you just like to be angry about it?

[Sooner_Havok]

Sorry, I haven't heard any news in a long time. I have heard "news" but not news.

BTW, Did you guys know Paris Hilton was busted on cocaine charges?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

You don't watch, but you just like to be angry about it?

Nah, just love to debunk what many are calling a "balanced" media.

[Sooner_Havok]

Nah, just love to debunk what many are calling a "balanced" media.

Yeah, I hate when networks throw out the "fair and balanced" card when it is clear they aren't.

The MSM is leftest, history is leftest, science is leftest, the ****ing internets are leftest, whatever...

(If anything, Fox cancels out MSNBC, the real far left leaning news channel.)

[Crucifax Autumn]

Is it possible that since these guys are close to the news and actually do the research and so on that perhaps they believe as they do based on those facts?

Just a theory and I'm not arguing either way really, just a thought.

[Serge Ibaka]

Is it possible that since these guys are close to the news and actually do the research and so on that perhaps they believe as they do based on those facts?

Just a theory and I'm not arguing either way really, just a thought.

I like this.

[Leroy Lizard]

Is it possible that since these guys are close to the news and actually do the research and so on that perhaps they believe as they do based on those facts?

You mean, like W's military letter that Dan Rather researched so thoroughly?

[Crucifax Autumn]

I was actually thinking in broader terms than very specific screwups.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Is it possible that since these guys are close to the news and actually do the research and so on that perhaps they believe as they do based on those facts?

Just a theory and I'm not arguing either way really, just a thought.That is what they're SUPPOSED to do, but something they have apparently almost totally abandoned, for many years.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Is it possible that since these guys are close to the news and actually do the research and so on that perhaps they believe as they do based on those facts?

Just a theory and I'm not arguing either way really, just a thought.

Have you taken a journalism class?

I have (in fact a concentration in Journalism to go with my Meteorology degree), not possible. They started out that way or were made that way in school.

The fact that 88% gave to liberal causes, suggests a strong bias, not just checking out and researching stories...

[Chuck Bao]

I really don't get this at all. I definitely do not see the MSM being left-leaning.

In personal life, I know a lot of journalists, major news agency stringers and newspaper editors. Without question, they are all slightly left of center on their political views. They have probably overwhelming donated to left-leaning political parties. That is not new for at least the last 60 years. But, absolutely not one of my friends would ever allow their journalistic integrity to be compromised by their own political views.

If you use the case of Dan Rather, what happened there? The hoax was discovered. Dan Rather and his staff were reprimanded and apoligized. Reputation and careers were lost. Ummm, now when has Fox News actually ever bothered to fix something after repeatedly being caught broadcasting misleading right-slanted news? They don't even try to bother.

I don't live in the US, but I guess that many Americans are turning into more provactive political commentary than watching the news. And, I doubt if many are getting much objective journalism from their newspapers or from their favorite websites.

It is all just very sad day for the quality and integrity of journalism.

[SoonerBorn68]

I think the Pac Ten officials made the right calls in the 2006 Oregon game.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Have you taken a journalism class?

I have (in fact a concentration in Journalism to go with my Meteorology degree), not possible. They started out that way or were made that way in school.

The fact that 88% gave to liberal causes, suggests a strong bias, not just checking out and researching stories...

Yes. I was a journalism major though life took me in different directions.

As I said to begin with though, I wasn't really arguing the point, merely asking a question which really hasn't ever been answered, a kind of "chicken or the egg" conundrum applied to the premise of this thread.

[PDXsooner]

I've read that 92% of the media gave to conservative causes.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I've read that 92% of the media gave to conservative causes.

Link?

[Leroy Lizard]

I was actually thinking in broader terms than very specific screwups.

It wasn't just a screwup. The fact was that Dan Rather very much wanted the letter to be genuine, which lead him to stick by his story too long. If it had been Obama, there is no chance in Hell that Dan Rather would have given it the time of day.

[GrapevineSooner]

It wasn't just a screwup. The fact was that Dan Rather very much wanted the letter to be genuine, which lead him to stick by his story too long. If it had been Obama, there is no chance in Hell that Dan Rather would have given it the time of day.

And even as late as November of 2005, Mary Mapes still suggested it wasn't 100% proven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy) that the signatures in the docs were forged.

Which is like saying that it's not 100% proven that Obama was born in the USA. :D

[Leroy Lizard]

I really don't get this at all. I definitely do not see the MSM being left-leaning.

Leftists never do.


In personal life, I know a lot of journalists, major news agency stringers and newspaper editors. Without question, they are all slightly left of center on their political views. They have probably overwhelming donated to left-leaning political parties. That is not new for at least the last 60 years. But, absolutely not one of my friends would ever allow their journalistic integrity to be compromised by their own political views.

Then they are robots. Because if they were human, their own political biases would affect the topics they choose to report and how they report them. It's called bias, and there is no way to train bias out of an individual.


If you use the case of Dan Rather, what happened there? The hoax was discovered. Dan Rather and his staff were reprimanded and apoligized.

The hoax was discovered by people outside the MSM, and Dan Rather and his network stuck by their story long after it was plain to anyone that the letter was a fake.

I don't recall Rather ever apologizing or admitting the letters were forgeries.

[PDXsooner]

Link?

For what? I wanted to throw another BS stat onto the pile.

[John Kochtoston]

Is it possible that since these guys are close to the news and actually do the research and so on that perhaps they believe as they do based on those facts?

Just a theory and I'm not arguing either way really, just a thought.

The truth has a well-known liberal bias.

[yermom]

explain to me again how the #1 news channel isn't included in the evil "MSM"?

[SoonerBorn68]

Cable news channel...and they're a joke, remember?

[yermom]

i didn't say they had any integrity, but claiming to be #1 and trying to act like the "little guy" in the next breath kinda lends itself to my first point

[TheHumanAlphabet]

explain to me again how the #1 news channel isn't included in the evil "MSM"?

You mean Fox News, I mentioned them as a balance to CNN. Conservative balancing extreme liberalism. That still leaves a mighty liberal gap that should be filled by conservative news outlets.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm just a bit confused. What proportion of the media could donate to liberal politicians/causes vs. conservative politicians/causes without implying bias? Should we require financial disclosures from all media members and require 1:1 hiring of conservative donors to liberal donors? Do we need to implement affirmative action policies to get less-qualified conservative reporters in the door?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Froz, what I would like to see, is not a 1:1 affrimative action deal. Just report the facts, do some real investigation and let people make up their own minds, rather than trying to manufacture a story or lay outrage.

The press has always been biased as people will always write with a certain view that molded them, happens everywhere and in most fields - news isn't alone here. What I fail to see and I think the walls have come down is that there ceased to be any pretense about being objective. Many in "journalism" are about changing something real or perceived when many people aren't asking for that.

Perhaps 24/7 news isn't such a good thing, there is a lot of time that needs to be filled up some how, regardless if its any good or not.

[Frozen Sooner]

Froz, what I would like to see, is not a 1:1 affrimative action deal. Just report the facts, do some real investigation and let people make up their own minds, rather than trying to manufacture a story or lay outrage.

I think we agree on that


The press has always been biased as people will always write with a certain view that molded them, happens everywhere and in most fields - news isn't alone here. What I fail to see and I think the walls have come down is that there ceased to be any pretense about being objective. Many in "journalism" are about changing something real or perceived when many people aren't asking for that.

I think you're wrong on that last sentence. The business model works-people very obviously WANT "news" that conforms to their worldview. Look at the numbers on political leanings of those who watch Fox vs. MSNBC. These guys are running a business. If "just the facts" sold, they'd do it. It doesn't.


Perhaps 24/7 news isn't such a good thing, there is a lot of time that needs to be filled up some how, regardless if its any good or not.

Agreed as well, though I don't think it's the 24/7 cycle necessarily that's the problem, it's the simple fact that most of us are rationally ignorant consumers of news. We just don't have the TIME to hear it all.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Sorry to say it, but Fox, MSNBC, and CNN are NOT 24/7 news outlets no matter what they claim. Thye re-run the news, have purely entertainment shows, have opinions disguised as news, run stupid celebrity stories, etc.

I wish to hell there was such a thing, but it's hanging out with Santa, the Easter Bunny, and man friendly lesbians.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I think you're wrong on that last sentence. The business model works-people very obviously WANT "news" that conforms to their worldview. Look at the numbers on political leanings of those who watch Fox vs. MSNBC. These guys are running a business. If "just the facts" sold, they'd do it. It doesn't.


I think that if people thought they were getting an honest story, then the selection of worldview news may go away. I think that people have felt for a while that there is a bias (deserved or not) and have selected an outlet that in their mind provides a "fairer" viewpoint. Can't say who is wagging the tail or the dog here...

The news business has changed, can't say if its good or not, but people are bailing from the traditional news outlets. Why? we can speculate. Papers are in trouble, network news is in trouble. Even cable news may have problems.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Sorry to say it, but Fox, MSNBC, and CNN are NOT 24/7 news outlets no matter what they claim. Thye re-run the news, have purely entertainment shows, have opinions disguised as news, run stupid celebrity stories, etc.

Well I meant (though not well said) the things are on 24/7. They have air to fill and they fill it. Hell, even NBC has gone and gheyed up The Weather Channel with news stories and expanded Mr Six (errr, Cantore) hourlong specials... And they wonder why people aren't watching. For every Glenn Beck, I will give you Joy Behar, Nancy Grace or Wolf Blitzer. Just really shrill all of them.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Nancy Grace really should die.

[KABOOKIE]

Yeah yeah yeah. Cable news and Oblaba's economic policies are a big joke.

[John Kochtoston]

Well I meant (though not well said) the things are on 24/7. They have air to fill and they fill it. Hell, even NBC has gone and gheyed up The Weather Channel with news stories and expanded Mr Six (errr, Cantore) hourlong specials... And they wonder why people aren't watching. For every Glenn Beck, I will give you Joy Behar, Nancy Grace or Wolf Blitzer. Just really shrill all of them.

Are you suggesting Nancy Grace is the liberal yin to Glenn Beck's conservative yang? Because I'd really disagree with that.

I also think "Conservative Yang" would be either a great band name or Porno title.

[Chuck Bao]

I still think there are plenty of professional, old school journalists out there. The real problem is that their power and value has diminished so much over the last 20 years, undercut by the advent of the internet and 24/7 cable news programming. It has been an explosion of widely-varying opinions and much less focus on quality of reporting the facts.

It has always been about readership and viewership and selling ads in the media industry. But I have to lament the recent loss of integrity in America’s major news sources. Those storied news sources always had a bulldog of an editor. In the past, the best-of-the-best reporter journeymen rose through the ranks to get the chance to tell America about the news.

I completely disagree with anyone’s assertion that professional journalists can’t report the news on an objective basis. You can train yourself to be open-minded and fair.

Yeah, I benefitted from the internet and being head of research for the largest retail broker in Thailand for 10 consecutive years with daily email distribution list of about 50,000. I would occasionally have to write about Thai politics. I have strong political leanings. But since I knew that about 50% of our clients were on one side and about 50% on the other, I quickly learned how to keep my own personal opinions out of it and write something balanced and fair with focus on the impact on the stock market.

I am very much confused when anyone talks about left-leaning MSM. My TV news from the US looks so very, very different from those viewing at home. I know because I try to get my favorite TV news channels on my mom’s TV and I can’t get the same international coverage despite being the same networks.

In Thailand, I mainly watch CNBC for their stock market coverage. Sometimes it is really great and sometimes they promote the views of stock market analysts who really shouldn’t being doing that, at all. At times, CNBC allows for some not-so-pretty attacking interviews and direct criticism of US President Obama. Okay, I will go along with that if the focus had an impact on the stock market, like I have been forced to do. But normally, they get it all wrong.

CNN is a really weird case. Before, I could always count on CNN to give me a quick rundown of international headline news at the start of every hour and the half hour. Non-Americans have long complained to me that CNN International is so USA centric and not at all balanced in reporting international news. (Don’t even try to watch CNN International in the US now because it is so different). I would put CNN in the right-wing column. But, I don’t even bother to watch CNN now because they have somehow gone away from news to special programs that basically suck.

I have another theory. I think some of you are so willing to attack the MSM because you saw how the MSM criticized the Bush administration. Now, you really want to see howls of outrage from the MSM on the Obama administration. Would you think that is fair and balanced to say?

[Leroy Lizard]

I completely disagree with anyone’s assertion that professional journalists can’t report the news on an objective basis. You can train yourself to be open-minded and fair.

I think you can train yourself into thinking that you're open-minded and fair, but it's difficult to pull off in reality because you have no objective gauge to rely on.

"I'm going to be fair in my reporting!" But who defines fair? You can't rely on your own perception of fair because it is inherently biased from the start.


Yeah, I benefitted from the internet and being head of research for the largest retail broker in Thailand for 10 consecutive years with daily email distribution list of about 50,000. I would occasionally have to write about Thai politics. I have strong political leanings. But since I knew that about 50% of our clients were on one side and about 50% on the other, I quickly learned how to keep my own personal opinions out of it and write something balanced and fair with focus on the impact on the stock market.

Now, suppose instead that if you exhibited your strong political leanings, you would be rewarded by numerous awards in the industry. You wouldn't be fired at all. In fact, your customers don't even care that much about bias because they can't even recognize it.

That is the world journalists live in today. Biased journalists are not fired (unless they act especially egregiously.) They are given awards and praised, especially by Hollywood. They are invited to glamorous parties. There is no impetus to be fair and objective.

If you run with the right-wing, who is going to come around? The entire entertainment industry is decidely left-wing, and those are the fun, cool people to hang out with.

[Chuck Bao]

I think you can train yourself into thinking that you're open-minded and fair, but it's difficult to pull off in reality because you have no objective gauge to rely on.

"I'm going to be fair in my reporting!" But who defines fair? You can't rely on your own perception of fair because it is inherently biased from the start.



Now, suppose instead that if you exhibited your strong political leanings, you would be rewarded by numerous awards in the industry. You wouldn't be fired at all. In fact, your customers don't even care that much about bias because they can't even recognize it.

That is the world journalists live in today. Biased journalists are not fired (unless they act especially egregiously.) They are given awards and praised, especially by Hollywood. They are invited to glamorous parties. There is no impetus to be fair and objective.

If you run with the right-wing, who is going to come around? The entire entertainment industry is decidely left-wing, and those are the fun, cool people to hang out with.

What the heck are you talking about?

I am now even more convinced that you just want to argue. I am not going to argue with you.

I had one strategist who I couldn't control. I could control posting on our department's website and email distribution, but I couldn't control what he said on live public TV broadcasts or on our own live internet video broadcasts.

His views were extremely one one-sided politically and the exact opposite of mine. No matter how many times I talked to him and explained the valid reasons for changing his reports, he could never learn or understand. He was just so convinced that he knew better and was smarter than anyone else.

Eventually, I gave up and gave him enough rope to hang himself. That came soon after with the sister of the then prime minister, who was a client, demanding that we fire him. The senior management worked out a compromise with her so that he just had to take a two-month holiday. Smart and arrogrant people can be so stupid some times.

There was a military coup in Thailand and the tables turned. There would be no awards awaiting me if I lost all presence of mind and decided to write my true political beliefs. More likely, there would be either deportation or arrest. Thank God that I left the industry just in time. Writing about the harsh May crackdown on the Red Shirt protests and their subsequent totally self-defeating and destructive burning of buildings would have killed my soul. I still cannot even talk about it with my close friends, unless I know that they are all Red Shirts.

Nope was totally crazy last night, bitching, ranting and throwing things. I tried to calm him down and ask what was so damn important. After a 10-minute rapid-fire diatribe, I got nothing. So, I slowed him down and got that he is so angry that Bangkok is still under a state of emergency, meaning that political gatherings of more than 5 people are illegal. We just had our Bangkok city council elections this last Sunday and there were lots of political gatherings for the election. Nope went to a political rally of the Red Shirts on Sunday night. I guess Nope thinks that the application of the emergency degree is being used selectively. Whatever and I am glad I am out of the opinion business. Ummmm...except here.

[Leroy Lizard]

What the heck are you talking about?

I am now even more convinced that you just want to argue. I am not going to argue with you.

Let me see if I can put this more simply:

You had a strong incentive to be as fair as possible. You already admitted it:


I have strong political leanings. But since I knew that about 50% of our clients were on one side and about 50% on the other, I quickly learned how to keep my own personal opinions out of it and write something balanced and fair with focus on the impact on the stock market.

Modern journalists have an incentive to be biased toward the Left. In this country, pandering to the Left gets you goodies: awards, celebrity friends, and even career advancement.

There. I hope you understand.