Sneaky anti-gunners disguised as greenies dealt smackdown...

[Okla-homey]

by the EPA.:D


Responding to a grassroots outcry from gun owners, the Environmental Protection Agency today announced that it has denied a petition by the "Center for Biological Diversity" :rolleyes: and other radical groups that had sought to ban the use of lead in ammunition.

Agreeing with the position of the NRA and the firearms industry, the agency explained in a news release that it "does not have the legal authority to regulate this type of product under the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA)." Further crushing the hopes of anti-gun and anti-hunting activists, the release added: "nor is the agency seeking such authority."

http://www.nraila.org/GrassrootsAlerts/read.aspx

Legally, that pretty much sticks a fork in those who sought EPA enforcement of the TSCA to ban lead ammunition. Which is splendid.

[Chuck Bao]

There was an article about this several months ago and I forget what their main point of contention is.

Oh, I think I remember that it was hunters who shoot animals and then don't gather them. I think the example was those who kill prairie dogs and just leave them where they fall for eagles, hawks, buzzards, coyotes to eat them and then suffer a slow, painful death of lead poisoning.

I am generally pro-gun, but I don’t see anything really sneaky about that concern. I understand why the issue was brought to the EPA.

I also understand why farmers in western Oklahoma need to rid themselves of prairie dogs.

The NRA could actually turn this into a much more positive PR thing by advertising that hunters should be responsible stewards of the land and gather what they kill or choose an alternative form of bullet.

However, I am not quite clear on what alternative form of bullet would not also kill a predator or scavenger eating on a dead carcass. Not plastic. Not ceramic. I guess we just need to develop a super duper pea shooter. ;)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

If ever there was a proper place for the deadly substance, LEAD, it would be for use in bullets, fergodssakes.

[yermom]

i have no problems with guns, but i guess i don't understand what is so special about lead

it's not like anyone is going to pick up their bullets when they are done

[GrapevineSooner]

"Eat hot lead!" still has relevance. ;)

[Okla-homey]

There was an article about this several months ago and I forget what their main point of contention is.

Oh, I think I remember that it was hunters who shoot animals and then don't gather them. I think the example was those who kill prairie dogs and just leave them where they fall for eagles, hawks, buzzards, coyotes to eat them and then suffer a slow, painful death of lead poisoning.

I am generally pro-gun, but I don’t see anything really sneaky about that concern. I understand why the issue was brought to the EPA.

I also understand why farmers in western Oklahoma need to rid themselves of prairie dogs.

The NRA could actually turn this into a much more positive PR thing by advertising that hunters should be responsible stewards of the land and gather what they kill or choose an alternative form of bullet.

However, I am not quite clear on what alternative form of bullet would not also kill a predator or scavenger eating on a dead carcass. Not plastic. Not ceramic. I guess we just need to develop a super duper pea shooter. ;)

I don't know any hunters who don't do their best to collect their kills. I myself have spent half the night looking for a deer in thick briar abd bramble country that was hit but bounded away several hundred yards before dropping. Ditto game fowl.

Now, if I was one to plink prairie dogs. Prolly not so much. But the tiny bullets used to pop 'em, is by no means going to create a toxic waste dump.

[Chuck Bao]

If ever there was a proper place for the deadly substance, LEAD, it would be for use in bullets, fergodssakes.

:D Heh! Now, that's the spirit of the thing.

Honestly, I don't see any good reason why anyone in southern Oklahoma would need to change their ammo. Okay, occasionally the wounded duck or quail gets away, but there is not much you can do about that. And, I highly doubt that is such a pressing issue for the EPA, hence the ruling.

I do want to say that I haven't seen so many eagles and hawks in southern Oklahoma since I was a young kid. Owls too! I never remember a hoot owl roosting near my mom's home and making so much noise at night when I was a kid.

But in western Oklahoma, the eagles, hawks, owls and coyotes are farmers' friends. I would presume that they kill and eat more prairie dogs than someone with a semi-automatic weapon. It would seem that it would be in their own self interest. But whatever.

[Chuck Bao]

I don't know any hunters who don't do their best to collect their kills. I myself have spent half the night looking for a deer in thick briar abd bramble country that was hit but bounded away several hundred yards before dropping. Ditto game fowl.

Now, if I was one to plink prairie dogs. Prolly not so much. But the tiny bullets used to pop 'em, is by no means going to create a toxic waste dump.

Well, that's exactly why my initial response was "WTF?" But, after reading that article, which I can't find now, I realize that it is not about a toxic waste dump. It is about a lead-filled carass being eaten by other creatures and very important predatory creatures to our ecosystem.

Of course, most hunters look for the kill. Of course, you look for the deer you had shot, no matter how long it takes. There is no question: we all would. When I started hunting, we had a dog, a Weimaraner, who could sniff out the blood trail and track wounded deer. Once I shoot a buck behind the house and the dog caught up with it and was ripping its throat out while it was still alive when I got there.

Again, I don't see a reason for any change of the law in regard to the only place I know, southern Oklahoma.

Now, if you are going to tell me that there is a standard practice of gathering prairie dog carcasses, then I will have to agree that this was a pretty sneaky thing.

[GottaHavePride]

i have no problems with guns, but i guess i don't understand what is so special about lead

it's not like anyone is going to pick up their bullets when they are done


Lead has three properties that make it ideal for bullets.

1. Cheap

2. Heavy

3. Soft


#1 and 2 go together. Lead is about the best weight / cost ratio you're going to find, and when the object is to fling mass at someone at a high rate of speed, that's a very good thing.

#3 is also important, because that means when the bullet hits a target it deforms easily, transferring a very high percentage of its kinetic energy to the target, which means it does more damage, which makes it a more effective weapon.

Using a metal of similar mass, but resistant to deforming means on impact it would either shatter (good for effectiveness, but messy - and dangerous if you miss) or just rip straight through the target and keep going (bad for effectiveness, since it does less damage to the target - and extremely dangerous for collateral damage.)

[yermom]

you pretty much can stop at #1

i'm sure technology could solve any other problems

[Harry Beanbag]

Haven't most states already outlawed lead shot for waterfowl hunting? I believe the deal with that was it would collect in the bottom of ponds and lakes contaminating fish and birds. They make steel shot for waterfowl hunting. I think you would have to experiment with your choice of shot size & weight, but I assume you can still find something to get the job done.

[delhalew]

i have no problems with guns, but i guess i don't understand what is so special about lead

it's not like anyone is going to pick up their bullets when they are done

BALL IS TICKS read up on it. Lead is special.

[yermom]

wtf does that mean?

[delhalew]

wtf does that mean?

Just a goofy way of alluding to what GHP mentioned above. Lead has certain ballistic properties that are not easily duplicated...at a reasonable price point.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Haven't most states already outlawed lead shot for waterfowl hunting? I believe the deal with that was it would collect in the bottom of ponds and lakes contaminating fish and birds. They make steel shot for waterfowl hunting. I think you would have to experiment with your choice of shot size & weight, but I assume you can still find something to get the job done.I think you're right. Most have. I know Oklahoma did, back when I was still duck hunting there.

And I know you can't use steel bullets in Cali at any gun range due to sparks and fire hazards. We have to use lead only or copper jacketed out here.

Still, there are more important things for people to spend their time on besides what the bullet is made out of (unless it was depleted uranium tips, ya know?).

Glad they lost.

[yermom]

H&H in OKC doesn't let you use steel ammo either

what is the price difference?

who cares about lead levels in the ground or your meat if you can save a few bucks?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

who cares about lead levels in the ground or your meat if you can save a few bucks?If you have a jackrabbit that is loaded with lead shot, and been sitting in the back of the pickup for a while, and you don't feel like cleaning all the shot out of the meat, and you don't mind a few bites that are hard on your teeth...well, you might want to think twice about that fresh rabbit meal.

[Chuck Bao]

Well, I learned a few things in this thread. Thanks Homey for starting the thread and the rest of you for posting in it.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Well, I learned a few things in this thread. Thanks Homey for starting the thread and the rest of you for posting in it. In conclusion, RIP this silly thread.the fix