Bank of Oklahoma overdraft charges

[badger]

Your stupid teen daughter/son who stupidly overdrafted the account might have an excuse after all:

Link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=51&articleid=20100824_51_E1_Alawsu990284)

I have not overdrafted since college, and I was with Arvest then, but this is very, very fishy. I know the account holders overspending their accounts have to have some accountability, but those overdraft charges are pricey

[ouleaf]

This simply sounds like an angry customer who got charged overdraft fees, but didn't read the Bank's Deposit Agreement before signing their name on the dotted line to open the account.

I guarantee you a bank as big as BOK will have all their guidelines printed in their Deposit Agreements and Truth in Savings Disclosures, the both of which Banks are required to provide to all Customers when opening an account.

It's also common practice for bank's to process transactions from largest to smallest regardless of their time in which they took place that day. The logic behind this is that the larger charge items are usually deemed more important, and the customer would much rather they go through than have a a handful of smaller charges go through that you did earlier in the day and then have your car payment that goes through later in the day be returned NSF as a result.

I think the claim that the customer made that they were being charge overdraft fees from overdraft fees is also false. If that really is a fact, then they definitely have a case there. Bank's certainly cannot do that. The fact of the matter is, make sure you know what you are getting into before you sign your name.

BOK should win this one pretty easily.

[Chuck Bao]

There is no doubt that depositors shouldn't ever overdraft their accounts and deserve to be penalized.

On the other hand, there is no excuse for banks to lag check clearing deposits and then profit overnight from the free-float. One would think that in this current modern era of technology and ability of rapid transfer of data, that the process would have been sped up, at least slightly.

[Leroy Lizard]

In my view, overdraft charges should be compensation, not profit. But that's not the way the world works.

[StoopTroup]

BOK doesn't win every time. I quit banking there forever at least 10 years ago.

I always felt that they felt they were doing me a favor letting me bank there. I decided to do them a favor and let them off the hook.

Now....if you've got $100,000 in there....you probably wouldn't pay any of those fees.

[GKeeper316]

This simply sounds like an angry customer who got charged overdraft fees, but didn't read the Bank's Deposit Agreement before signing their name on the dotted line to open the account.

I guarantee you a bank as big as BOK will have all their guidelines printed in their Deposit Agreements and Truth in Savings Disclosures, the both of which Banks are required to provide to all Customers when opening an account.

It's also common practice for bank's to process transactions from largest to smallest regardless of their time in which they took place that day. The logic behind this is that the larger charge items are usually deemed more important, and the customer would much rather they go through than have a a handful of smaller charges go through that you did earlier in the day and then have your car payment that goes through later in the day be returned NSF as a result.

I think the claim that the customer made that they were being charge overdraft fees from overdraft fees is also false. If that really is a fact, then they definitely have a case there. Bank's certainly cannot do that. The fact of the matter is, make sure you know what you are getting into before you sign your name.

BOK should win this one pretty easily.

bank of america just lost a suit like this. mid-first has done this to me twice. one of the anchors i work with had to pay BoK almost a grand from them doing this ****.

this is what happens when banks arent regulated.

[StoopTroup]

this is what happens when banks arent regulated.

And Airlines.

http://www.wareztour.com/wp-content/uploads/united-airlines-newly-revised-baggage-fee-policyagain-0.jpg

[badger]

in the article, a BOK spokeswoman said that the suit is a copycat of one against a California bank and that it has no merit.

Having not overdrawn during my time at BOK, I do not know how it works. However, when I was a poor college student with Arvest, the overdrafts were usually due to some stuff posting before others... and the paycheck posting never (usually in a week, waaaaay too much time if you're poor) and the online posting just ordering it weirdly or not posting stuff for a few days, enough time to forget until overdraft. uggggh, it got to the point where i would cash the entire paycheck, then deposit cash in my account, because Arvest had some BS policy on holding checks for seven days, even with longstanding accounts, even when the checks were from other Arvest accounts.

So glad to not be a poor college student anymore. I feel everyone's pain who still is.

[Ike]

Had this happen once to me as a college student. Wasn't BOK, was another major bank. The long and short of it was basically, I forgot I had my car insurance coming out automagically on the next monday. Made 3 or 4 very small purchases over the weekend. Anyway, they apply the car insurance payment first, then the 3 or 4 small purchases, which winds up with me having 3 or 4 $30 overdraft fees rather than just the one I would have had if these things had been applied chronologically.

Anyway, I called and complained rather loudly. They told me they couldn't do anything, that this was their policy.

It may be legal, but IMO, it ain't right. And I told em as much when I flipped em the bird and moved my money elsewhere.

[GKeeper316]

i even went to a branch with the receipts from the purchases in question (i keep all receipts just for stuff like this) and showed them the order in which the purchases were made...

they didnt really care. then they told me to pay up or they'd put me in the high risk database that banks use. its basically extortion imo.

[tulsaoilerfan]

There is no doubt that depositors shouldn't ever overdraft their accounts and deserve to be penalized.

On the other hand, there is no excuse for banks to lag check clearing deposits and then profit overnight from the free-float. One would think that in this current modern era of technology and ability of rapid transfer of data, that the process would have been sped up, at least slightly.

I was told by my bank that if i deposit a check into my account it won't be credited til the next day; now what kind of bs is that? They sure as hell take out the checks i write as soon as they get them

[OU-HSV]

BOK doesn't win every time. I quit banking there forever at least 10 years ago.

I always felt that they felt they were doing me a favor letting me bank there. I decided to do them a favor and let them off the hook.

Now....if you've got $100,000 in there....you probably wouldn't pay any of those fees.

Yeah we weren't impressed w/BOK. We had some issues with them and I always got the same impression that you did...almost like I was privileged to be able to bank there. I never understood that.

[Chuck Bao]

I was told by my bank that if i deposit a check into my account it won't be credited til the next day; now what kind of bs is that? They sure as hell take out the checks i write as soon as they get them

I am quite okay with the next day. Afterall, the bank won't receive the money until the check clears the issuing bank. I don't think that that can be sped up much faster. However, I am not okay with a rule that says that checks deposited after lunch will be credited into the account on the second business day and many times that's over a weekend. Or, the issuing bank is out of state and then it will take much longer.

At least, internet banking and automatic transfers are superceding that archaic paper system. I don't have a checking account outside of the US. I only keep mine in the US because I want my mom to write checks on my account for my property taxes and property insurance and she feels comfortable with that.

[soonerhubs]

i even went to a branch with the receipts from the purchases in question (i keep all receipts just for stuff like this) and showed them the order in which the purchases were made...

they didnt really care. then they told me to pay up or they'd put me in the high risk database that banks use. its basically extortion imo.

WADR if you keep track of the receipts so meticulously why don't you keep track of your transactions in a similar manner?

[soonerhubs]

I mean it's lame that their charging outrageous overdraft fees, but a balanced check register will eliminate most if not all of these grievances.

[Leroy Lizard]

I mean it's lame that their charging outrageous overdraft fees, but a balanced check register will eliminate most if not all of these grievances.

That goes without saying.

[olevetonahill]

Yall dont be writin them Hot checks :eek:

woEYm8cPbWw

[ouleaf]

I was told by my bank that if i deposit a check into my account it won't be credited til the next day; now what kind of bs is that? They sure as hell take out the checks i write as soon as they get them

Are you serious??? If banks gave you instant credit on a check, do you know how many people would simply just go to another branch and withdraw that money right away.


I am quite okay with the next day. Afterall, the bank won't receive the money until the check clears the issuing bank. I don't think that that can be sped up much faster. However, I am not okay with a rule that says that checks deposited after lunch will be credited into the account on the second business day and many times that's over a weekend. Or, the issuing bank is out of state and then it will take much longer.

At least, internet banking and automatic transfers are superceding that archaic paper system. I don't have a checking account outside of the US. I only keep mine in the US because I want my mom to write checks on my account for my property taxes and property insurance and she feels comfortable with that.

Most banks will switch over business days sometime in the afternoon, depends on bank to bank, but it usually around 3 or 4pm. It's so Banks can start scanning in that days checks and deposits and send it off to their back offices for balancing and sending that information off to the Federal Reserve for sorting out and sending debit/credit information to the appropriate banks.

Yes, Internet Banking Transfer are automatic. Another simple thing to do is to just simply tie a savings account to your checking account and use that as overdraft protection. Sure, your bank may charge you a transfer fee, but it will be far less than the per item overdraft fees if you are enrolled in a Bank's "Overdraft Protection" plan. And again you won't be spending money you don't have.

[1890MilesToNorman]

Have money in your account, problem solved.

[Ardmore_Sooner]

Are you serious??? If banks gave you instant credit on a check, do you know how many people would simply just go to another branch and withdraw that money right away.

Ding, ding, ding! It's called kiting and it's a serious problem. I used to be a teller, and the kind of crap that people try to pull is pretty crazy, especially in these economic times.

[yermom]

cash. FTW!

i just have a credit card i use for incidental stuff and pay it off from my account every couple of weeks

[olevetonahill]

Are you serious??? If banks gave you instant credit on a check, do you know how many people would simply just go to another branch and withdraw that money right away.

[SIZE="5"]My bank credits my account when I deposit a check, Course i been with em fer 20 years /SIZE]

Most banks will switch over business days sometime in the afternoon, depends on bank to bank, but it usually around 3 or 4pm. It's so Banks can start scanning in that days checks and deposits and send it off to their back offices for balancing and sending that information off to the Federal Reserve for sorting out and sending debit/credit information to the appropriate banks.

Yes, Internet Banking Transfer are automatic. Another simple thing to do is to just simply tie a savings account to your checking account and use that as overdraft protection. Sure, your bank may charge you a transfer fee, but it will be far less than the per item overdraft fees if you are enrolled in a Bank's "Overdraft Protection" plan. And again you won't be spending money you don't have.


Have money in your account, problem solved.

See my Utube ;)

[ouleaf]

My bank credits my account when I deposit a check, Course i been with em fer 20 years

Yes there are banks who offer immediate credit on check deposits, but they are usually specialized accounts that require you to maintain a certain balance (ususally to cover the check if it bounces), or they will only give you immediate credit up to a certain amount, like $1000.00 or so. If your bank will give you immediate credit on a check that is more than what you have in your account, then they are a very trusting bank.

[badger]

I was told by my bank that if i deposit a check into my account it won't be credited til the next day; now what kind of bs is that? They sure as hell take out the checks i write as soon as they get them

I know that many before us ruined check writing for all eternity to the point that many places won't even take them anymore, but the fact that I could get the check cashed right away because I had an account with them, but if I deposited the check they wouldn't have the funds appear right away, that's where I'm going wtf :confused:

So, because the savvy poor student that I was, I would just blatantly BS with the teller. They knew it, I knew it, the fact of the matter is that anyone in a menial job like teller and cashier like the two of us at that knows that the stupid machine will process everything the same way every time, so you can BS a machine into doing what you want. Because of our menial status, we cannot change the pre-approved machine system that the suits upstairs setup to be hardline stanced on everything. But, when you spend more time with the machine than the suits ever will, machines can be manipulated :D

So, the machine, EVERY TIME, will deposit the check to not show up for like five, seven, a million days. However, the machine, EVERY TIME, will have cash show up immediately.

Hmmmmm.... what to do here.... :D:D:D

[yermom]

My bank posts up to $100 from checks immediately. They also will only cash a check if I have funds to match in my account

[1890MilesToNorman]

See my Utube ;)

i ain't gettin anywhere near yer tube!!

[Frozen Sooner]

Have money in your account, problem solved.

Odd how that works, isn't it?

[yermom]

well sure, Bruce

[Crucifax Autumn]

My bank doesn't charge me anything, but I do have to lift the matress.

[SteelPanz]

I do appreciate the opt-out agreement on those things now. However, it's also nice to have the spillover option to deduct from another account, if you want.

[Scott D]

changes in the overdraft stuff that people are feeling blindsided by now are a result of the 'banking regulation' stuff taking effect that the government put into place this year. Same with the credit card regulation.

End result, people aren't overdrafting as often..for the most part. And individual consumer credit card debt has decreased across the board. Granted, that in the latter, a believed increase in bankruptcy filings has come into play to a point.

My credit union sent me things a couple of times about a change to the overdrafting policy by giving me the option to opt in to a fee for it. What they didn't make clear, is if the fee was monthly or annual.

Regardless, banks suck and credit unions suck less.

[Frozen Sooner]

changes in the overdraft stuff that people are feeling blindsided by now are a result of the 'banking regulation' stuff taking effect that the government put into place this year. Same with the credit card regulation.

The opt-in stuff is the result of new financial regulations. The overdrafting policies have been in place for almost 10 years on an opt-out basis.


End result, people aren't overdrafting as often..for the most part. And individual consumer credit card debt has decreased across the board. Granted, that in the latter, a believed increase in bankruptcy filings has come into play to a point.

Believe it or not, individual credit card debt is at its lowest level in years right now.


My credit union sent me things a couple of times about a change to the overdrafting policy by giving me the option to opt in to a fee for it. What they didn't make clear, is if the fee was monthly or annual.

Per occurrence is the usual way they handle it.


Regardless, banks suck and credit unions suck less.

True.

[Crimsontothecore]

Have money in your account, problem solved.

What? Are you crazy? so let me get this straight; you are suggesting that account holders should not write checks in amounts that are GREATER than the actual balance in their accounts? I don't know where you came up with that nonsense but trust me, it will never catch on;)

[Scott D]

Per occurrence is the usual way they handle it.


Discretionary on a per occurrence basis is how they handled it prior to August 15th of this year. I had until the 15th to decide whether to opt in at the $30 fee. I didn't feel comfortable with making a decision without having access to a FAQ to further explain the fee in terms other than them saying "if you opt in, it covers overdrafts, if you don't it doesn't. we're not doing it on a discretionary basis anymore."

[Frozen Sooner]

Right. Which means it's still per occurrence, they just don't make a case-by-case decision on whether to pay it anymore. At least, that's the way every place I've ever seen do it. YMMV.

[Scott D]

Either way, I'm not concerned. I've only had one occurrence in 5 years with them, and damn near got counselling from them because of it lol.

[badger]

I heard that credit card debt is way down this year too nationally. Maybe the bank regulation is working? Or perhaps, people are too afraid to spend money

[TheUnnamedSooner]

I worked for the BOK company for 10 years with several of those in their retail department (some in okla and some in tex). Yes, they do charge from highest to lowest. And yes employees are told to tell customers that bigger checks are more important like rent or mortgage, etc. However, bottom line is, BOK along with several other banks make a ton of money off overdrafts, and this is just one way to maximize that profit.

In the time I worked there, I never once saw them charge a fee because of another fee. And yes, all their charges is clearly outlined in the disclosures given when you open an account.

I don't know if they still do this, but if for whatever reason, you don't get immediate credit for your deposit, typically any OD fees because of this would be refunded given the check you deposited was good.

[TUSooner]

****bottom line is, BOK along with several other banks make a ton of money off overdrafts, and this is just one way to maximize that profit....

I was surprised when my bank-VP friend told me that this is why banks want your checking account business so badly. They really do make tons off overdraft fees.

[Chuck Bao]

I was surprised when my bank-VP friend told me that this is why banks want your checking account business so badly. They really do make tons off overdraft fees.

I believe you, but that is a pretty sad deal. I mean if they are making lots of profit on folks who can't quite get their finances in order as they go through a temporary rough patch.

I guess the lesson here is to save during the good times and don't let anyone ever get a chance to plug you over a barrel (excuse the mixed metaphor). Banks are generally heartless and soul less. They don't care about you.

I do lament the demise of the small town community banks in Oklahoma, who were invested in the community and a sizeable employer. Of course, branch banking and technology and corporate mergers entered in since I worked 5 years ('80-'85) as a bookkeeper/teller/loan teller at my local community bank. I was so proud that I had that opportunity. That is especially because my grandfather was so proud of me. He would have lost his farm during the Great Depression if it weren't for the local bank owner being confident that he would work hard to make good on his word.

Seriously, our world has changed. Banking has changed. When I visit my old employer, there is only one person there that I had worked with in the 80s and she floats around to various branches. The bookkeeping department has been reduced from about 10 to now 1 because everything is processed in OKC or Dallas.

Yeah, bank customers have benefited from the new technology and bank branching and bank mergers. I am just not so sure that it is all working out in our favor.

</rant>

[Ike]

I was surprised when my bank-VP friend told me that this is why banks want your checking account business so badly. They really do make tons off overdraft fees.

Well, if you think about it, they are very often just really high interest loans. You overdraw by 5.00, they spot you the 5, charge you $30, and then you get paid a few days later. Work out the APR on that kind of 'loan' and it's easily in the 1000% and up range. Heck, the interest rates on credit cards are a pittance compared to overdraft charges.

Do that on a large enough scale, and it's basically just easy money.

[badger]

Well, if you think about it, they are very often just really high interest loans. You overdraw by 5.00, they spot you the 5, charge you $30, and then you get paid a few days later. Work out the APR on that kind of 'loan' and it's easily in the 1000% and up range. Heck, the interest rates on credit cards are a pittance compared to overdraft charges.

Do that on a large enough scale, and it's basically just easy money.

They once called check cashing businesses "legalized loan sharking." By calling overdraft charges "interest rates," much like Check N Go calls their rollover fees "rollover fees," you've got even worse interest rates than check cashing places, if I'm not mistaken?

Am I mistaken? Most check cashing places (other than the states that have cracked down on this) will loan you $100 for a 10 percent fee. So, they give you $100 cash for a $110 check for example (or $1,000 cash for a $1,100 check). They hold your check for a few weeks, then if you cannot pay, you give them another 10 percent payment for them to hold your check longer. Guess what most people that resort to those places do. Other than states that have cracked down on this, you could be paying these places $10-$100 bi-weekly payments for all eternity.

[Frozen Sooner]

You're not mistaken. The banking industry is terrified that people will figure out that this is really lending and that it will come under the purview of Regulation Z.

Some smart lawyer out there is probably already working on the complaint.

[Crucifax Autumn]

You should go ahead and make your mark on this one bro!

[Frozen Sooner]

I said "smart."

[TheUnnamedSooner]

You're not mistaken. The banking industry is terrified that people will figure out that this is really lending and that it will come under the purview of Regulation Z.

Some smart lawyer out there is probably already working on the complaint.

I think that has already been attempted. But it comes down to why payday loan people get away with 50% interest or whatever they charge because it's not "interest", its a "fee".

NSF's are viewed as loans. Commercial bankers have to keep a close eye on their customer's overdrafts as to make sure that the overdraft and outstanding loans don't go over the bank's legal lending limit.