Pryor V Jones

[oudavid1]

If you think Terrelle Pryor is a legitimate Heisman contender next year look at this....

2009

Total Touchdowns
Advantage:Jones

Total Yards
Advantage:Jones

Completion %
Advantage:Jones

Starts
Pryor 13, Jones 10

Alright, your thoughts?

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm with you. Pryor has never impressed me much. He's a gifted athlete, but lacks leadership qualities.

[oudavid1]

I'm with you. Pryor has never impressed me much. He's a gifted athlete, but lacks leadership qualities.

That and ive watched a little tape on him (1st half vs Oregon, Rose Bowl) every time he steps up in the pocket he seems uneasy and throws poor percentage passes. I dont think he can be a leader (like you said) and dont think he elite by any stretch. his numbers agree. Though he is a weapon, he is not Heisman material yet (if at all).

[JLEW1818]

I'll bet anybody 100 bucks that Pryor will finish better than Landry in the 2010 Heisman Voting.

It's not just stats.


Landry has not proved anything that Pryor hasn't


T. Pryor is my 2010 Heisman winner, and Ohio State will "play" in the National Championship.

Baltimore over Green Bay in the Super Bowl too

[oudavid1]

I'll bet anybody 100 bucks that Pryor will finish better than Landry in the 2010 Heisman Voting.

It's not just stats.


Landry has not proved anything that Pryor hasn't

So Landry and Pryor are even?

Landry on an 8-5 team with 3 less starts.

Statistically Landry is better.

[JLEW1818]

never said who is better.

But i know how Heisman Voting can work.

The Media already loves Pryor

[oudavid1]

never said who is better.

But i know how Heisman Voting can work.

The Media already loves Pryor

Im not saying Pryor dosnt have the ability to explode this year and emerge as the front runner, but up until now, the facts state he not more productive than Landry Jones.

[JLEW1818]

well, what QB returning is more productive than Landry Jones, if we are just talking stats.?

Jones will get a step better. But i don't think he will get Heisman appreciation until 2011

[oudavid1]

well, what QB returning is more productive than Landry Jones, if we are just talking stats.?

I think there are some, but my point is that Jones is more productive than Pryor. So using what i know now (facts i,e stats) You cant say other than speculate that Pryor has shown what it takes to be a standout Heisman contender.


Jones will get a step better. But i don't think he will get Heisman appreciation until 2011

I agree with you.

[JLEW1818]

I think what Pryor did in the Rose Bowl is a better performance than any other Jones performance.

If you factor in opponent, stage, and stats.

[SoonerLB]

Pryor is as over-rated as THE over-rated school he attends, but jlew prolly has a point, the media (as usual) will go for ratings and covet any prima donna that they can come up with from the east coast (especially now that SUC is a hot potato they don't wanna touch).
Pryor will turn out to be a bomb just like most other so-called stars from oHIo st. have proven to be. I'd pick Landry over him any day!

[JLEW1818]

I'd take Landry over Pryor for my Sooner team.


(but it would be interesting to see what Pryor could do in the OU offense)

[oudavid1]

I think what Pryor did in the Rose Bowl is a better performance than any other Jones performance.

If you factor in opponent, stage, and stats.

I believe he did play well in the Rose Bowl, he completed (62.2%) of his passes, but that was alot higher than he normally put up against a below average defense (51st in total defense in 09-10) so it dosnt really impress me that much. and considering the Touchdown in the second half was the only good looking deep ball (it was really pretty). He looked so uncomfortable when he stepped up in the pocket. Also led his team to 11-21 3rd down conversion % which is pretty average.

[BoulderSooner79]

The Heisman voting follows the top players on the top teams, so Pryor is a lock to get every consideration. And since tOSU plays a very low risk attack, he is unlikely to look real bad. But the camera also loves stats and you only have to go back to '08 to see things can turn around quickly. If OU has a great season, that means Landry will have had a good season and will get plenty of looks. But as far as '09 goes, we didn't beat anyone if you are honest about it. The pokes were already spiraling when we pounded them and Stanford had one of the worst pass defenses in the Pac10 (and they lost their starting QB). Those were our best wins.

[oudavid1]

and Stanford had one of the worst pass defenses in the Pac10 (and they lost their starting QB). Those were our best wins.

this made me laugh

And i agree with you. But if Landry out preforms Pryor, which has evidence of happening in the past....I believe it would hinder the chances of Pryor being the 76th Heisman winner.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I hereby state that Pryor will NOT win the Heisman. He'll try to live up to his hype and end up making more mistakes than anyone expects. He's not gonna win the Heisman on running the ball (See Jason White before he started passing so well, Vince Young, etc.) without having Teblow like success and I really don't see that happening.

Sorry jlew, but you will lose the bet you placed on Pryor.

[BoulderSooner79]

The pokes were already spiraling when we pounded them and Stanford had one of the worst pass defenses in the Pac10 (and they lost their starting QB). Those were our best wins.


this made me laugh

And i agree with you. But if Landry out preforms Pryor, which has evidence of happening in the past....I believe it would hinder the chances of Pryor being the 76th Heisman winner.

Of course I meant they lost their regular season QB right before the bowl. Yes, Jones was our backup, but was the starter that got us to the bowl (and you knew that). My point is just that player stats on an unranked team don't carry much weight in the Heisman vote. So comparing Jones to Pryor in '09 was like apples to ducks. We just need to stay ranked - and I request highly ranked if it's not too much trouble.

[yankee]

So Landry and Pryor are even?

Landry on an 8-5 team with 3 less starts.

Statistically Landry is better.

they play in completely different offenses, so it's not fair to compare the two stat-wise.

[oudavid1]

I hereby state that Pryor will NOT win the Heisman. He'll try to live up to his hype and end up making more mistakes than anyone expects. He's not gonna win the Heisman on running the ball (See Jason White before he started passing so well, Vince Young, etc.) without having Teblow like success and I really don't see that happening.

Sorry jlew, but you will lose the bet you placed on Pryor.

Tebow had more than double the TDs of Pryor. and as far as comparing stats, im comparing productivity, and Landry Jones was more productive

[soonerborn30]

they play in completely different offenses, so it's not fair to compare the two stat-wise.

Heisman voting is rarely fair either. There's obvious bias towards high profile players on name-brand teams, specifically the QB. You have former players voting that have their own biases. Can you imagine Billy Sims EVER voting for a Texas player for Heisman? Then you have the know-nothing yobs that vote and have no idea what's going on in the college football world outside their own zip code, so they rely on ESPN for all their information about other players. Guess who ESPN will be pimping this year for Heisman?

With that being said, I seriously doubt Landry even gets a whiff of NY this year. Pryor will probably get invited by default, but unless he figures out how to throw a football farther than about 15 yards, he won't win it.

[yankee]

Tebow had more than double the TDs of Pryor. and as far as comparing stats, im comparing productivity, and Landry Jones was more productive

what are you basing this productivity on? wins? rating? something i'm not seeing?

[yankee]

Heisman voting is rarely fair either. There's obvious bias towards high profile players on name-brand teams, specifically the QB. You have former players voting that have their own biases. Can you imagine Billy Sims EVER voting for a Texas player for Heisman? Then you have the know-nothing yobs that vote and have no idea what's going on in the college football world outside their own zip code, so they rely on ESPN for all their information about other players. Guess who ESPN will be pimping this year for Heisman?

With that being said, I seriously doubt Landry even gets a whiff of NY this year. Pryor will probably get invited by default, but unless he figures out how to throw a football farther than about 15 yards, he won't win it.

i agree that heisman voting is rarely fair. but if you get your team to the NC game and you're the best player on the team, then you have a good shot. ohio state going to the NC is probable, and if they're going to get there it's because pryor had a very good year...and he's their most talented offensive player.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Bah...Thye can suck it.

[yankee]

Bah...Thye can suck it.

you want landry jones to suck it? you traitor!

[Crucifax Autumn]

LOL..you knew what I meant, but funny anyway. I like a nice stache rubbing against my belly.

[oudavid1]

what are you basing this productivity on? wins? rating? something i'm not seeing?

Stats, Advantage: Jones

[Mississippi Sooner]

I'm with you. Pryor has never impressed me much. He's a gifted athlete, but lacks leadership qualities.

But he runs the 40 in something like 2.5 seconds. tOSU said so.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Then why isn't he a star in the SEC-SEC-SEC-SEC?

[yankee]

Stats, Advantage: Jones

did you not read my post where i said they play in COMPLETELY different offenses? if stats meant everything, a texas tech QB would have won it for 5 straight years in the mid 2000's. i bet a lot of players had better stats than troy smith when he won the heisman a few years ago running that conservative sweater vest offense. was he the most worthy? maybe, maybe not...but it's not all about stats. like i said, if pryor can guide OSU to the NC game, he's going to have as good a shot as anyone. which is why jlew picked him to win the heisman...jlew is a smart man. but he's still gay.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Best College Football Player.

That loser ain't it.

[yankee]

Best College Football Player.

That loser ain't it.

i'm not saying he is. i'm just trying to make a point. we shall see if he matures as a QB this coming season. if senator tressel hands the keys to pryor, the sky is the limit for pryor. but i bet that doesn't happen since we're talking about tressel. :P

[oudavid1]

Pryor cannot preform the way he did last year and win a Heisman over a Landry Jones with a performance of less than or equal too 2009 Landry Jones.

[yankee]

Pryor cannot preform the way he did last year and win a Heisman over a Landry Jones with a performance of less than or equal too 2009 Landry Jones.

i think i understand that statement and i think i agree, but i'm not sure.

[oudavid1]

i think i understand that statement and i think i agree, but i'm not sure.

Im trying my best but its late and im under the influence of sleeping pills.

[BoulderSooner79]

i think i understand that statement and i think i agree, but i'm not sure.

I don't think you do, but I'm am sure I didn't.

[oudavid1]

but I'm am sure I didn't.

Lets call it a night.

[yankee]

Im trying my best but its late and im under the influence of sleeping pills.

you need to go to bed so we can clarify this in the morning.


I don't think you do, but I'm am sure I didn't.

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-001.gif

[oudavid1]

[QUOTE=yankee;2927110]you need to go to bed so we can clarify this in the morning.


lol yeah, its not like i have anything better to do.

[yermom]

what about the rushing stats?

[oudavid1]

Pryor total yards < Landry's Total yards

[yermom]

that's not really the same thing

[oudavid1]

from a productivity stand point....it is

[Seamus]

This thread:

http://www.realclearsports.com/blognetwork/buccaneer_bow_shots/train-wreck.jpg

[yermom]

from a productivity stand point....it is

let's say one QB passes for 4,000 yards, and 0 rushing yards

the other QB passes for 2,500 yards and rushes for 1,500 yards

you really think those are the same?

[sooner518]

Pryor's deep throws look like Josh Fields moonshots. he's athletic as hell, but watching him throw the ball is painful.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Every Texas Tech quarterback since 2000 should have been a heisman winner or finalist then

[gaylordfan1]

I'm still skeptical on Pryor winning the heisman... he is, like everyone has said, a tremendous athlete. But, to win the heiman you can't have many bad games. I think he may have a couple. I predict a dark hoarse winning it all.

[oudavid1]

let's say one QB passes for 4,000 yards, and 0 rushing yards

the other QB passes for 2,500 yards and rushes for 1,500 yards

you really think those are the same?

I see your point. But Pryor dosnt make Heisman type plays on a level on consistency throughout ballgames.

[gaylordfan1]

He has Miami in week 2 at his own house.... That will be a good game for us to see what he can do.

[KantoSooner]

We'll see. From other posts, I am sure some are aware that I am of the opinion that Pryor has a problem with slow reads and decision making. Landry, too, had some freshman issues with locking on and not really mastering the options available.
This year I am hoping that we see a similar improvement in Landry's game to what we saw in Sam's between year one and year two. If so, then frankly, there will be very little comparison between the two with Landry by far the better qb. Pryor will be left with an ability to take off and run....and will be forced to do so quite frequently.

[oudavid1]

He has Miami in week 2 at his own house.... That will be a good game for us to see what he can do.

See USC 2009 at Ohio State

[JLEW1818]

Every Texas Tech quarterback since 2000 should have been a heisman winner or finalist then

:D :D:D

[JLEW1818]

See USC 2009 at Ohio State

see Landry Jones at Nebraska 2009

Nebraska also lost to Iowa State at home.


Both QB's have had their moments, and bad moments.

2010 is huge for both.

[Sooner04]

see Landry Jones at Nebraska 2009
That wasn't Landry's fault. Our O-line was bad.

And Landry wasn't supposed to be the starter at the beginning of the year.


[ducks.......]

[NormanPride]

Didn't Brad smith do everything he's doing, except on a much worse team? Was Brad Smith a Heisman caliber guy?

[Mad Dog Madsen]

He has Miami in week 2 at his own house.... That will be a good game for us to see what he can do.

So who all will be rooting for "The U" to win this game??? I hate Miami but I can't stand THE Ohio State University...

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Didn't Brad smith do everything he's doing, except on a much worse team? Was Brad Smith a Heisman caliber guy?



He was until Gary Pinkel got a hold of him...Seriously, the only quarterback I've seen get progressively worse from his freshman to senior year

[Sooner04]

I'll never forget what Brad Smith did to us in Columbia in 2002. That was one of the most impressive performances I've ever seen by a quarterback. And we were really, really good.

Gary Pinkel tried to turn that guy into a dropback, pocket passer. Yeah, right.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

took a trick play, a nice pick by Everage on a slant route, and some lucky breaks to pull that one out

[NormanPride]

Thank God for the fourth down fumble forward rule...

[Ruf/Nek7]

That and ive watched a little tape on him (1st half vs Oregon, Rose Bowl) every time he steps up in the pocket he seems uneasy and throws poor percentage passes.

That's because he is not a pocket passer!

[Ruf/Nek7]

Kellen Moore stands a better chance at winning the Heisman. That's your dark horse for this year.

[yermom]

I see your point. But Pryor dosnt make Heisman type plays on a level on consistency throughout ballgames.

i'm just saying on general principle, you can't discount almost 800 yards on the ground. that's not a horrible season for a running back

i do think Jones' passing numbers are discounted because of who he followed

moderate improvement and he could at least get invited to NY

[Salt City Sooner]

took a trick play, a nice pick by Everage on a slant route, and some lucky breaks to pull that one out
Nate throwing for 3 bills that day didn't hurt either.

As for the original premise of this thread, Yankee has it right. OU threw the ball over TWO HUNDRED more times than tOSU did last year. I'd hope to heck that Landry had bigger numbers than Pryor. tOSU's schtick is very simple. They lay back, run the ball, make a couple of safe passes, play solid defense, & wait for you to make one more mistake than they do. Basically, long story short, they bore you to death, & a whole lot more often than not, you're walking out with something along the lines of a 24-17 loss.

[oudavid1]

Well my point was total yards vs total yards. But i think Pryor is a better Athlete and would even go as far as saying he is a better playmaker overall. I mean i cant be sure, but i would lean that way

[Mad Dog Madsen]

Kellen Moore stands a better chance at winning the Heisman. That's your dark horse for this year.

Hmmmm I'd go with Case Keenum over him as your dark horse...

[Ruf/Nek7]

Hmmmm I'd go with Case Keenum over him as your dark horse...

Case is a system QB. Not much different than titty tech. Boise St. is a better team with a better record in the end. Although i would love to see BS vs. Houston

[oudavid1]

Hmmmm I'd go with Case Keenum over him as your dark horse...

Dark Horse?

I Like.....

http://www.nationalchamps.net/2009/sub/pics/small/oregonstate_jacquizz_rodgers.jpg

and I really really like.....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_BPPA9jjsFhQ/SuD1MM3TAkI/AAAAAAAAAqQ/vFQ54GMrjCo/s320/dion+lewis.jpg

[JLEW1818]

i remember last August (2009) on first take. Scoop Jackson guaranteed that neither Bradford, McCoy, and Tebow would win the Heisman. he said somebody unknown will win it. It's not a bad idea to take the field over the favs.

Mark Ingram was pretty unknown at the start of the 2009 season, for the average college football fan.. and look what happened.

I mean hell, if Virginia Tech runs the table, Tyrod Taylor could be the winner.


Just look back at the last few Heisman (at the time of the award)

2009: Mark Ingram
- Alabama was undefeated, and just beat number 1 Florida.

2008: Sam Bradford
- 12-1 team. 50 td passes.

2007: Tim Tebow
- the gators had like 3 or 4 losses, but his stats were just stupid... and a SEC team.

2006: Troy Smith
- Ohio State was undefeated and played in the National Title

2005: Reggie Bush
- Undefeated, usc

2004: Matt Leinart
- Undefeated, usc

2003: Jason White
- 12-1 at the time, 40TD passes


with the exception of Tebow... all players played in the National Title game. And the media loved Tebow anyways.

If u aint in the National Title, u better be in the SEC and have great stats, to win .

[BoulderSooner79]

I think the gator had 3 losses at Tebow heisman time. The 4th came in the bowl game vs. Mich. But as you said, his stats were at video game levels because he was their best runner as well as an efficient QB. Unreal number of TDs to his credit.

[oudavid1]

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0925/ncf_u_rodgers2_sw_412.jpg This was supposed to be my first pick

[Salt City Sooner]

I thought quite a while about him too, but he's in the same boat as Lewis, in that the Beavs will be breaking in a new QB.