Not sure how i feel about this carp

[olevetonahill]

Still dont believe the Gooks gave a full accounting of our POW/MIA at the end of the war :confused:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100808/ap_on_re_as/as_vietnam_us_military_mates

[Chuck Bao]

Still dont believe the Gooks gave a full accounting of our POW/MIA at the end of the war :confused:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100808/ap_on_re_as/as_vietnam_us_military_mates

I so understand you and agree to some part. My uncle Howard was so angry and feeling so much hate. He felt so much hate that he didn't even want to talk about it.

It was a bit weird when my family and my uncle Howard were playing Trivial Pursuit and the question was about America's secret war. My brother and sister and I were on the same team and they guessed Cambodia, but they deferred to me because I know a little more about Indochina and I guessed Laos. That was the correct answer and my uncle Howard told us about his incursions into Laos. No wonder he fells so much hate.

There is no comfort that I can ever provide, Olevet, except that I love you very much and appreciate the sacrifices that you made for our county. God bless you and I just wish I could rewind time and say the same thing to my uncle Howard, who sadly passed away from cancer.

My uncle Howard really, really hated that I moved to Thailand. In his opinion, it was the pit of the earth. Well, just imagine for a second the temporary military base postings and all the prostitutes just outside. The immediate impression would be "Lord, please get me home."

I can just imagine what our current troops face and I can only pray - "Lord, please get them home."

Going back to Indochina, Vietnam people really love Americans and they love the freedom and spirit. I know this because I was there a couple years ago and realized that they are really beautiful people with a vibrant economic future, thanks in part to new American investment. Seriously even in the countryside, it is all about production and reward - and they are and will remain at heart capitalists.

The US is cozying up to Vietnam only because it is, in effect, an attempt to contain China's influence. Your article pointed that out. It really isn't a bad thing in my view. But, I am not ever going to discount your feeling of hatred and anger.

[olevetonahill]

George , I have a Great Nephew that just spent time in Nam with his GF.
He loved it
Im sorry . No Im not . I dont think I will ever get over that **** .

I have a hard time dealing with the fact that we just said **** it ! and came home. Theres still almost 2000 Of our troops MIA/POW . that the gooks have never accounted for
Im positive that some are just bones in the jungle and will never be found
Im also convinced that some of our guys wound up in Russia and China

I really dont want to get started on this **** . But thats part of the way I REALLY feel.

[Chuck Bao]

Howard, bro, there is no way that I can understand the depth of your feelings. But, it is a good lesson for all of us if we try to understand.

I am not going anti-war here. Sometimes war is necessary and unfortunately our young men and women are asked to make the ultimate sacrifice.

Yeah, Hanoi has all of those museums celebrating the victory over the big bad bully, the USA. But, strangely enough it didn't stop them from trumpeting that the Hanoi Hilton once housed the US presidential candidate John McCain. They not so secretly admire us.

The new generation, and Vietnam has a very young population, are much more interested in buying the latest pirated US movies, music, and Japanese video games and latest brand of motorcycles.

Okay, I know that this is not helping. In my opinion Vietnam was a line drawn during the Cold War and it was played out by proxy in Southeast Asia. The Vietnamese don't see that at all. It was all about defending their country from foreigners and they had such a long history of trying to defend their country, especially from China. And, that brings us back to the present.

I also want to say that I still think that that battle line was important and necessary at that time. The communist party was active in Thailand and Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines and an ideological war was raging throughout the region. The western powers were just coming off success in defending South Korea and protection of western Berlin.

I don't mean this as a history lesson or anything like that. My point is that the sacrifices you and others made did delay the spread of communism long enough so these other countries in Southeast Asia could fight back and control the "Red Menace". My main point is that you did was appreciated and that it did change the course of history.

It was very ugly war and many lives were lost in what now should clearly be seen as a futile struggle. Communism is a failed idea and anyone who uses that term should be very ashamed, especially those who try to brand their political opponents as communists or the really stupid idea a new emerging Red Menace. Vietnam is proof that countries come back, although it may be a very slow, gradual process.

[olevetonahill]

Hanoi Hannah made my day
tXXoqhXdnvM

[olevetonahill]

I HATE this bitch with the HATE of a 1000 suns
**** her !
http://agingsnob.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/closeupphotojane.jpg

[olevetonahill]

Chuck . The thing to me is you say anything you feel . OK ?
Im sorry I hate those folks more than i do jane
screws me up cause i want the common folk to have a good life.

[Chuck Bao]

You can and you should say what you feel. Dammit, there is no doubt that I would have extreme hatred in my heart against anyone wanting to kill me or did kill some of my "band of brothers" in the foxhole. That hatred is justified and no doubt very real. And, I have no doubt that your hatred for Hanoi Jane is very justified and very real. She was smoozing with the enemy at the same time that Americans were dying out in the rice fields.

I thought you started this thread by saying you didn't know how you feel about normalized relations with Vietnam and military cooperation. If it is too painful for you, please delete the thread. I truly and sincerely apolgize if I have offended you.

[Chuck Bao]

I am going to add on here that I know that you want the common folk to have a good life. I know that you want these people to have a good life. When you say "gook", I read it as the murderous sons of bitches that were fighting for some ideology that is now totally proven as bunk.

As I mentioned before, that is not at all discounting the positives that resulted from the sacrifices made by you and your fellow soliders, as well as the lack of appreciation that you deserved. My intention was really to pay tribute to you.

While we are on the feelers thingy, I really, really wish that we could completely separate debate about overseas wars and support for our troops. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like a easy thing to do.

[SicEmBaylor]

Chuck . The thing to me is you say anything you feel . OK ?
Im sorry I hate those folks more than i do jane
screws me up cause i want the common folk to have a good life.

I don't have any personal connection to the place as you do, but I nonetheless totally agree with you.

The only reason we're giving two ****s about Vietnam is $$$$$. Imports from Vietnam increase every year and they're increasingly a valuable trade partner.

[OUMallen]

I don't have any personal connection to the place as you do, but I nonetheless totally agree with you.

The only reason we're giving two ****s about Vietnam is $$$$$. Imports from Vietnam increase every year and they're increasingly a valuable trade partner.

Why else would we care about Nam, or any other place? We're not all that much in the business of running around to countries based solely on our own philanthropic motivations.

[Chuck Bao]

Why else would we care about Nam, or any other place? We're not all that much in the business of running around to countries based solely on our own philanthropic motivations.

That is exactly it! US corporations have invested a lot of money in Vietnam. As I said before, Vietnam has a very young 70 million population.

That, coupled with the counter to China and its extended South China Sea territorial claims based on a few small islands is probably enough business/geopolitical reasons for reapproachment on both sides, as Olevet's original link pointed out.

My old company has a stock brokerage deal there. I know a lot of people who are very disappointed that the stock market hasn't taken off there, some of whom invested 20 years ago. So, Vietnam is not fully embracing capitalism and free markets. I take it as the bureaucrats in charge do not want to make mistakes, as they typically want to do. When I was there, I never got the idea of a cult following for a leader to lead in liberalization like Deng Xiaoping or Gorbachev or Yeltsin. I think nobody wanted to take that mantel and a vast array of bureaucrats are in charge. In a sense, it is a good thing and on the other hand it also means that change is going to be very, very slow.