Karl Rove to guest-host Limbaugh's show on monday

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

All you silly little libs be sure to tune in, call him, and call him names. Wish him ill, or whatever. You will enjoy the outrage.

[SicEmBaylor]

All you silly little libs be sure to tune in, call him, and call him names. Wish him ill, or whatever. You will enjoy the outrage.

He can eat **** and die.

Am I a lib?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

He can eat **** and die.

Am I a lib?No, just a baby-down-the-drain-with-the-bathwater type. Call him, srsly. I would love to hear you get into whatever with him. Be sure to intro yourself as Sicem, pls.

[SicEmBaylor]

No, just a baby-down-the-drain-with-the-bathwater type. Call him, srsly. I would love to hear you get into whatever with him. Be sure to intro yourself as Sicem, pls.

Let me ask you this, what has Karl Rove done to advance the cause of limited-government and individual rights?

He's responsible for crafting the GOP's strategy of going soft on illegal immigration in order to court hispanic voters. He's the one that arm twisted and threatened good conservative members of Congress into voting for the Medicare expansion program by cutting off their NRCC funds and threatening them with primary opponents.

That's just for starters...

Here's what I think...I think you like Karl Rove not because you know anything about Karl Rove but because the left hates him therefore you see him as a "good guy." That's just my theory though...

[ndpruitt03]

I really don't care much for him or Bush or most other neo-conservatives. I think they need to switch out the conservative in that name and just call them neo liberals. There's a few good things I liked about the Bush era and that way is better than what we are headed to but that's not saying much I would rather have the libertarian way which has private companies doing most of the work, federal government just taking care of most foreign affairs and securing our borders.

[Chuck Bao]

Here's what I think...I think you like Karl Rove not because you know anything about Karl Rove but because the left hates him therefore you see him as a "good guy." That's just my theory though...

SicEmBaylor may not score much with the chicks, but he scored spec with me for that post.

Karl Rove is the debil and very successful political campaigner using hate and fear. It really shouldn't be about that. What happened to new ideas and a plan for the way forward? And, I obviously don't give a flip for SicEm's thoughts about neo-conservatives versus dinosaur republicans issues.

[SicEmBaylor]

SicEmBaylor may not score much with the chicks, but he scored spec with me for that post.

Karl Rove is the debil and very successful political campaigner using hate and fear. It really shouldn't be about that. What happened to new ideas and a plan for the way forward? And, I obviously don't give a flip for SicEm's thoughts about neo-conservatives versus dinosaur conservatives issues.

Fixed.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

But Hannity calls him "The Architect"! That makes him cool!

[SicEmBaylor]

But Hannity calls him "The Architect"! That makes him cool!

There does not exist a more brainless twit than Sean Hannity.

[pilobolus]

If it weren't for Karl Rove, we would have had eight years of McCain beginning in 2000 instead of eight years of Cheney, and this country would be much better off, including having a lot fewer-or maybe no-Americans maimed or killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I hope if there is a hell, there is an especially warm and pain-filled corner just for Rove.

[SicEmBaylor]

If it weren't for Karl Rove, we would have had eight years of McCain beginning in 2000 instead of eight years of Cheney, and this country would be much better off, including having a lot fewer-or maybe no-Americans maimed or killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I hope if there is a hell, there is an especially warm and pain-filled corner just for Rove.

Eh, the differences would have been marginal. You're right about Iraq though. Both Bush and McCain suck major major ***, and in a perfect world neither of them would be allowed anywhere near the White House grounds.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

John McCain keyed your scooter.

[SicEmBaylor]

John McCain keyed your scooter.

The SOB probably did, it was the only vehicle low enough for him to lift his arm up to key it!

Okay that was low...I retract that remark. ;)

[MR2-Sooner86]

There does not exist a more brainless twit than Sean Hannity.

http://static.open.salon.com/files/o'reilly1220541851.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4y-Tsm7EWEQ/SMKdEEDViJI/AAAAAAAABbQ/ML9YGsVk1Bo/s400/keith_olbermann_101.jpg

[SicEmBaylor]

http://static.open.salon.com/files/o'reilly1220541851.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4y-Tsm7EWEQ/SMKdEEDViJI/AAAAAAAABbQ/ML9YGsVk1Bo/s400/keith_olbermann_101.jpg

Nah, both of them are marginally more intelligent than Hannity. Marginally...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Good stuff, guys. Be sure to listen to Rove on monday, and don't be shy about calling in, and giving him the grief.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

If it weren't for Karl Rove, we would have had eight years of McCain beginning in 2000 instead of eight years of Cheney, and this country would be much better off, including having a lot fewer-or maybe no-Americans maimed or killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I hope if there is a hell, there is an especially warm and pain-filled corner just for Rove.McCain is the real hyper-RINO. He played dirty in the 2000 campaign, and, even knowing that, and many other grievances with him, I voted for his sorry as* against our present socialist pres.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Let me ask you this, what has Karl Rove done to advance the cause of limited-government and individual rights?

He's responsible for crafting the GOP's strategy of going soft on illegal immigration in order to court hispanic voters. He's the one that arm twisted and threatened good conservative members of Congress into voting for the Medicare expansion program by cutting off their NRCC funds and threatening them with primary opponents.

That's just for starters...

Here's what I think...I think you like Karl Rove not because you know anything about Karl Rove but because the left hates him therefore you see him as a "good guy." That's just my theory though...he has issues, as did Bush and McCain, and I agree that he's not a true conservative. But, just like McCain, he's light years ahead regarding sanity than anyone calling himself a Democrat. Also, he's not running for anything, unlike McCain. BTW, I doubt , though I don't really know, that Rove is STILL for Amnesty or open borders. Ask him on monday.

[Scott D]

I don't think RLimC believes any of this, I think he says it because Karl Rove told him to.

[ndpruitt03]

Neo-conservatism is bad for this country just like progressivism is. Neo-conservatism is just progressive lite.

[SicEmBaylor]

Neo-conservatism is bad for this country just like progressivism is. Neo-conservatism is just progressive lite.

It isn't even lite. I wouldn't call two major wars that are going on 9 and 7 years respectively to be "lite." Or the creation of one of the biggest new entitlement programs since The Great Society to be "lite." Nor would I call the biggest effort to remove education policy from the local communities and state government and put it squarely in D.C. to be "lite."

There's nothing light about neoconservatism. It's an evil ideology and its practitioners should be discredited at every turn.

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm going to hijack this thread (it wasn't going anywhere anyway).

Can someone tell me WHY the f'k we're still in Afghanistan and Iraq? The argument that we're fighting terrorism is asinine. Terrorism is a tactic that is not going to be defeated and we're never going to defeat those who engage in terrorist acts. We've done EVERYTHING we can possibly do in Afghanistan, so why the f'k are we still pouring billions of dollars into that ****hole? Ditto Iraq.

God what a colossal waste of money and American lives.

[ndpruitt03]

I don't think there is a good reason. Why are we still in Germany and Britain and Italy? We can cut a bunch of the money we are paying overseas for no good reason and pay for a few things we need to domestically.

[Ardmore_Sooner]

We waste so much money on stuff that amounts to nothing. It's quite sickening really.

[PDXsooner]

Can someone tell me WHY the f'k we're still in Afghanistan and Iraq?

So we have a convenient launching pad for when we finally decide to attack Iran?

[SicEmBaylor]

I don't think there is a good reason. Why are we still in Germany and Britain and Italy? We can cut a bunch of the money we are paying overseas for no good reason and pay for a few things we need to domestically.

I agree with all of this except the last part. We need to take all that money and use it to start paying down the deficit. We should have used the Clinton surplus to start paying off the deficit.

[PDXsooner]

Sicem, I love some of your points. But don't you think your isolationist attitude is a bit outdated for such a globalized world?

[ndpruitt03]

Sicem, I love some of your points. But don't you think your isolationist attitude is a bit outdated for such a globalized world?

Who says anything about isolationism? Why do we need troops to not be isolated. It should be easier to connect with everyone in the world without troops now a days because of the technology we have. I could kinda understand that attitude even 20 years ago, but why do people think an army is dictating if you are important or not. Does China have troops everywhere in the world? Money dictates this the most. We can still trade with everyone.

[SicEmBaylor]

Who says anything about isolationism? Why do we need troops to not be isolated. It should be easier to connect with everyone in the world without troops now a days because of the technology we have. I could kinda understand that attitude even 20 years ago, but why do people think an army is dictating if you are important or not. Does China have troops everywhere in the world? Money dictates this the most. We can still trade with everyone.

I, for one, am an isolationist. To answer PDX's question, there's no going back. My views simply represent the way I wish things were. If I had things totally my way we'd have a Jeffersonian style agrarian based Republic with local and community cottage industries. We'd have a much much smaller Federal government and our local and state governments would dominate domestic law which, ideally, would also be very limited. It goes without saying that our standard of living and what we know as the American way of life would be vastly vastly different, but I see some virtue in living a somewhat more austere lifestyle.

There are some things we can and should be doing. Withdrawing ALL of our troops from overseas deployments and shutting down all of our foreign bases is a good start followed by the repeal of NAFTA and CAFTA and pulling out of the UN and NATO.

[ndpruitt03]

In a way we should be a little isolated from Europe and Asia since all of that is basically landlocked and we are far away from there. But if you read what Jefferson wanted. He basically wanted all of America's, Canada, S. America, Mexico, Central America to all become one America eventually. Under similar type republics that we developed here. That's far from isolationalism. But he also wanted us to treat all foreign affairs peacefully.

Now he did stop all trade for a while in response to what France and England were doing with our ships in his 2nd term. But he saw that as a temporary thing because of those acts. And he also repealed almost all of the Embargo act leaving it only for England and France and he even said that those were only meant to be temporary. But that was all in response to France and England's actions against us. And the fact that we weren't really ready for war. We basically got our asses kicked in the War of 1812 a few years later. We simply weren't prepared for it.

If you read what Jefferson wanted in foreign affairs was completely free trade, that we did in the US even at a larger scale and with as many people as we could. Now you'll throw the embargo act at me but that was in response to situation sat the time as I said in my last paragraph and was mean to be temporary. If you read what he wrote throughout his life even after that fiasco, he was for free trade with everyone and as much communication as possible. Of course at that time there wasn't the technology we have now that makes globalization without armies easy.

[KC//CRIMSON]

All you silly little libs be sure to tune in, call him, and call him names. Wish him ill, or whatever. You will enjoy the outrage.

Have you got your knuckles cracked and lube ready to go?

[PDXsooner]

I, for one, am an isolationist. To answer PDX's question, there's no going back. My views simply represent the way I wish things were. If I had things totally my way we'd have a Jeffersonian style agrarian based Republic with local and community cottage industries. We'd have a much much smaller Federal government and our local and state governments would dominate domestic law which, ideally, would also be very limited. It goes without saying that our standard of living and what we know as the American way of life would be vastly vastly different, but I see some virtue in living a somewhat more austere lifestyle.

There are some things we can and should be doing. Withdrawing ALL of our troops from overseas deployments and shutting down all of our foreign bases is a good start followed by the repeal of NAFTA and CAFTA and pulling out of the UN and NATO.

Well said. I can't necessarily disagree, although it seems a bit utopian. Well put, either way.

[PDXsooner]

I, for one, am an isolationist. To answer PDX's question, there's no going back. My views simply represent the way I wish things were. If I had things totally my way we'd have a Jeffersonian style agrarian based Republic with local and community cottage industries. We'd have a much much smaller Federal government and our local and state governments would dominate domestic law which, ideally, would also be very limited. It goes without saying that our standard of living and what we know as the American way of life would be vastly vastly different, but I see some virtue in living a somewhat more austere lifestyle.

There are some things we can and should be doing. Withdrawing ALL of our troops from overseas deployments and shutting down all of our foreign bases is a good start followed by the repeal of NAFTA and CAFTA and pulling out of the UN and NATO.

Actually, I would love to see this type of society. What current politicians or public figures do you think best represents this type of society?

[Curly Bill]

I'm going to hijack this thread (it wasn't going anywhere anyway).

Can someone tell me WHY the f'k we're still in Afghanistan and Iraq? The argument that we're fighting terrorism is asinine. Terrorism is a tactic that is not going to be defeated and we're never going to defeat those who engage in terrorist acts. We've done EVERYTHING we can possibly do in Afghanistan, so why the f'k are we still pouring billions of dollars into that ****hole? Ditto Iraq.

God what a colossal waste of money and American lives.

Obama is looking for his dad? ;)

[Crucifax Autumn]

Didn't I just see the Iraqis crying about how we're leaving them high and dry?

[Leroy Lizard]

Actually, I would love to see this type of society. What current politicians or public figures do you think best represents this type of society?

Just ask at his campaign headquarters.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/picable/2007/11/22/81961_Air-Stream-Trailer-in-the-Desert_400.jpg

[Crucifax Autumn]

Is that the trailer from the beginning of that one Myst game?

[Leroy Lizard]

I dunno. I'm not paying royalties regardless.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm just wondering what happened to the funny looking dude that sits outside talking in a deep voice.

[Leroy Lizard]

Aliens?

[Crucifax Autumn]

No clue...The game sucked so I quit playing.

[GKeeper316]

No clue...The game sucked so I quit playing.

wasnt even a game. was more like a 3 week math problem. hated it, but finished it.

me being a masochist and all...

[Scott D]

The one thing that prevents sicem's dream from being reality is pretty much the fact that total withdraw from the global scale is impossible on virtually every level without there being a collapse in such a way that it would ignite a final (for humans) world war within months if not weeks.

A smaller footprint is possible, but it becomes a question of whether or not the extended short term pain would be worth the few gains it would achieve down the road.

[ndpruitt03]

I can see having troops in the middle east if you are right Scott, but why do we have half our troops in places like England, France, Italy, Great Britain, and other places where they can should be able to defend themselves. I can understand having ambassadors all over the world, but not troops in some of these places. The only place where war is probably imminent if we leave is the middle east. But war is pretty much imminent with us being there also.

[Scott D]

A lot of why we have setups where we do is in order to give quick response ability. All of it is related to the various treaties we have with either individual nations, or via regional/coalition treaties.

In short, it's the trade off we made in order to be the main "super power" in the modern era.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Don't forget though that some bases are left over from the Cold War in case Russia decided to throw everything they had at West Germany and Europe.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Besides, it lets thousands of young people see the world!

[Scott D]

Don't forget though that some bases are left over from the Cold War in case Russia decided to throw everything they had at West Germany and Europe.

and we closed I believe 1/3 of our European Duty Stations during William Jefferson Clinton's second term.

[Crucifax Autumn]

So Nick and Clinton share a worldview. Who woulda thunk it?

[Scott D]

apparently so did SicEm and Clinton...although I'd wager only one of them was getting a blow job from a brunette at the time.

[SicEmBaylor]

apparently so did SicEm and Clinton...although I'd wager only one of them was getting a blow job from a brunette at the time.

I agree with Clinton on a lot more now than I did at the time. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that I like Clinton but there's something to be said for the fact that we had a robust economy during the 90s with a fairly substantial surplus at the end and no major wars abroad. Now...if Clinton hadn't played around with the nation building bull**** then he'd really have been something.

[SicEmBaylor]

Sicem, I love some of your points. But don't you think your isolationist attitude is a bit outdated for such a globalized world?

Man, I can't think of any. Ron Paul probably comes closest. But, I can't think of one single politician that encompasses everything that I believe, but you can probably find plenty of who believe at least part of it on both sides of the aisle.

I distrust big business as much as big government, so that puts me into agreement with at least some on the left.

Actually, Jim Traficant's politics are pretty close to my own. I admire the hell out of that man.

[MR2-Sooner86]

I found a map of our bases and a list of bases and troups.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/US_military_bases_in_the_world.svg/800px-US_military_bases_in_the_world.svg.png

Notable Facilities (amount of military personnel):

Latin America & the Caribbean

Soto Cano Air Base - Honduras (550)

Guantanamo Bay Naval Station in Cuba (850)

New facilities in Colombia (Plan Columbia)

Several counter-drug radar sites in the Andean region

Forward Operating Locations:

Ecuador, Aruba, Curaçao, and El Salvador (from 15-300)

Africa

Camp Lemonier – Djibouti (1000)

Camp Simba – Kenya (n/a)

Manda Bay – Kenya (n/a)

Forward Operating Locations:

Ethiopia (n/a)

Ghana (Rumored)

Europe

Notable Facilities (amount of military personnel):

Ansbach (3050) – Germany

Baumholder/Kaiserslautern (8400) – Germany

Wiesbaden (2500) – Germany

Rammstein Air Base (n/a) – Germany

Vicenza (2600) – Italy

Dal Molin Air Base (1200) – Italy

Naval Station Rota (8000 including civilians) – Spain

Various USAF bases in United Kingdom (9367)

Incirlik Air Base (1514) – Turkey

Benelux (2000) – Belgium

Forward Operating Locations:

Bulgaria, Romania (Est. 15-300)

Central Asia

Manas Air Base (1000) – Kyrgyzstan

Various bases in Afghanistan (pre-surge: 59,000, post-surge: 89,000)

East Asia

Various bases in South Korea (28,000)

Mainland Japan bases (4,000 including civilians)

Kadena Air Base – Okinawa (18,000 including civilians)

Camp Hansen – Okinawa (n/a)

Marine Corps Air Station Futenma – Okinawa (4,000)

Various troops on rotation for training purposes in Philippines (111)

Middle East

Various bases in Iraq (171,000)

Troops in Saudi Arabia (277)

Troops in Egypt (255) (http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/us-military-bases-a-global-footprint-1/)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I agree with Clinton on a lot more now than I did at the time. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that I like Clinton but there's something to be said for the fact that we had a robust economy during the 90s with a fairly substantial surplus at the end and no major wars abroad. Now...if Clinton hadn't played around with the nation building bull**** then he'd really have been something.What do you agreee with Clinton on now, the accepting of foreign govt money in political campaigns, or retroactive taxation? Say, you don't suppose a (fairly)fiscally responsible congress had anything to do with Clinton having a good economy, do you? IOW, either you don't really have much sense, or you're just seeing if anyone will challenge those nitwit comments.

[SicEmBaylor]

What do you agreee with Clinton on now, the accepting of foreign govt money in political campaigns, or retroactive taxation? Say, you don't suppose a (fairly)fiscally responsible congress had anything to do with Clinton having a good economy, do you? IOW, either you don't really have much sense, or you're just seeing if anyone will challenge those nitwit comments.

Clinton, not Congress, actually won the budget war but yes they are due their degree of credit. The problem is, the Republican Congress managed to **** away any claim to fiscal responsibility once Bush entered the White House which tells me they don't give a **** about fiscal responsibility they just give a **** about opposing a Democrat because he's..well...a Democrat.

So, yes, I like Clinton's post-1994 management of the economy. Everyone who complained back then about how much money he was spending had absolutely no clue how much would end up being spent in the 2000's. Hindsight is 20/20. I thought Clinton was awful at the time, but I'd rather have had a Clinton with a Republican Congress managing the budget than a Republican President and a Republican Congress or a Democrat President/Democrat Congress.

That's not to say that I think Clinton was a great President. The actions of the Clinton Justice Department under Reno were damned near treasonous and at an earlier time in our nation's history probably would have led to a Revolution. I don't like his cozy relationship with the Chinese and so many of our nation's military secrets that somehow managed up in their hands. I don't like his horrible nation building ventures in Haiti, Somalia, etc. (but they pale in comparison to Bush's)....

So..just to ease your mind a little there are plenty of things I don't like about Clinton and no I don't think he was a great President, but I do think he was reasonable for the time and I think he was better than W. Bush.

[MR2-Sooner86]

The actions of the Clinton Justice Department under Reno were damned near treasonous

I'd go as far to say they were. Of course what do I know? All that happened was the killing of innocent men, women, and children but it's no big deal.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Clinton, not Congress, actually won the budget war but yes they are due their degree of credit. The problem is, the Republican Congress managed to **** away any claim to fiscal responsibility once Bush entered the White House which tells me they don't give a **** about fiscal responsibility they just give a **** about opposing a Democrat because he's..well...a Democrat.

So, yes, I like Clinton's post-1994 management of the economy. Everyone who complained back then about how much money he was spending had absolutely no clue how much would end up being spent in the 2000's. Hindsight is 20/20. I thought Clinton was awful at the time, but I'd rather have had a Clinton with a Republican Congress managing the budget than a Republican President and a Republican Congress or a Democrat President/Democrat Congress.

That's not to say that I think Clinton was a great President. The actions of the Clinton Justice Department under Reno were damned near treasonous and at an earlier time in our nation's history probably would have led to a Revolution. I don't like his cozy relationship with the Chinese and so many of our nation's military secrets that somehow managed up in their hands. I don't like his horrible nation building ventures in Haiti, Somalia, etc. (but they pale in comparison to Bush's)....

So..just to ease your mind a little there are plenty of things I don't like about Clinton and no I don't think he was a great President, but I do think he was reasonable for the time and I think he was better than W. Bush.That makes a heckuva lot more sense than what you previously said, although I would ask anyone to compare Bush's behavior with a largely unprincipled republican-controlled congress to a Democrat president's behavior with a full-blown marxist congress, such as we have now. As many faults as that last group of R's in control had, the Bush administration looks like Thomas Jefferson compared to BHO''s present governance.

I would add that I think if Clinton would have been able to have the democrats control congress after the '94 mid-term election, he would have enacted much of the wrath that has happened since BHO took office.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm gonna have to sleep with the light on.

[StoopTroup]

MC ROVE!

hYZre8kEsuw

It's probably best he's gonna be on the radio.....

[StoopTroup]

David Letterman has a pretty good take...

K5N6M7zKUUk&feature=fvw

[StoopTroup]

I keep hearing Pubs like Rand Paul and the like say that what we need is a Smaller Gov't. When I hear the same bunch keep saying that the Obama Administration is heading us towards Communism but yet they complain that the Obama Administration is growing the size of Gov't it seems to conflict with the ideals of things that happened in History.

Pubs want a smaller Gov't but if you were to include a smaller Military...the end of the World would be upon us. If the Pubs don't get what they want....they start carrying weapons around and displaying "Don't Tread on Me" Flags. Thus we get conversations about Civil War and what would happen if our Military were to have to control a Pub led Civil War.

I just keep thinking about how folks are saying the Obama Administration is ruining our Country and yet the 8 years of the Bush Administration was heading our Country in the right direction?

Top it off with the 9-11 legislation that tagged on taxing off-shore accounts to pay for the legislation and the tax increases would have been on the folks who are using off-shore accounts to avoid paying taxes....taxes the rest of us pay everyday. There was talk of a 10% straight tax for 8 years during Bush but nothing happened. With the Pubs it's been about the blame game and how someone else is at fault for not getting things done.

Bottomline is....the Pubs didn't get it done which makes them just as bad as the folks they complain about who supposedly are ruining this Country.

I continually find it hard to side with the folks in either party these days and further....everytime I hear Palin speak....I hear someone's Mother-in-Law complaining about how badly her Daughter's Husband treats her Daughter. Her voice is quickly becoming a "Fingernails screaching across a Chalkboard". She is doing her political career more harm than good IMHO. Everyday she gets a bit older and a lots less HAWTer. Seeing her sitting in the seat of the POTUS is quickly becoming an image much like what most of us would have envisioned had Hillary Clinton become the 1st Woman POTUS. I'm not against having a Woman as POTUS either....I just think our Country could find much better and more Qualified Women to choose from.

God help us if we ever put Palin in office. Geraldo Rivera might as well be VP when she gets in there.

[StoopTroup]

BTW....I was comparing the Rand Paul Ideal to who Hitler got himself into power. Reduce the size of Gov't and then take over the Military.

People who point the Communist finger at other Americans should really take a good long look in the mirror and a few history books IMO.

[MR2-Sooner86]

BTW....I was comparing the Rand Paul Ideal to who Hitler got himself into power. Reduce the size of Gov't and then take over the Military.

People who point the Communist finger at other Americans should really take a good long look in the mirror and a few history books IMO.

What happened with Hitler though wasn't communism, that was facism.

[ndpruitt03]

What happened with Hitler though wasn't communism, that was facism.

Also Hitler wasn't about less government power. If he was about less government power then he wouldn't have killed all those millions of people and tried to take over all of Europe. If you've ever listened to Rand Paul or his father they are about less federal government control. If you listen to what he dad said about 7 years ago he was destroying the Neo-cons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNb_610L0GE

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

What happened with Hitler though wasn't communism, that was facism.The nazi's stood for socialism, and were also fascists. All 3 of those isms go together with authoritarianism(statism).

[ndpruitt03]

The nazi's stood for socialism, and were also fascists. All 3 of those isms go together with authoritarianism(statism).

All 3 are basically about bigger government control. That's something we tried to get away from 250 years ago.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I'm gonna have to sleep with the light on.Pretty much Okay with congress, are you?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

All 3 are basically about bigger government control. Echo in here?

[SicEmBaylor]

I keep hearing Pubs like Rand Paul and the like say that what we need is a Smaller Gov't. When I hear the same bunch keep saying that the Obama Administration is heading us towards Communism but yet they complain that the Obama Administration is growing the size of Gov't it seems to conflict with the ideals of things that happened in History.

Pubs want a smaller Gov't but if you were to include a smaller Military...the end of the World would be upon us.

This is a great point. Let me say this first, make no mistake that the Paul's are true believers. The other Republican politicians that try to attach themselves to the Pauls are often not. Ron Paul has made it clear for years that he favors a largely reduced role for the US Military and a reduction in Pentagon spending. I'm not sure what Rand Paul has said on the matter, but my guess is that he closely echoes his father on the subject. My point is this...don't lump the Pauls in with your typical spineless bottom dwelling Republican.


If the Pubs don't get what they want....they start carrying weapons around and displaying "Don't Tread on Me" Flags. Thus we get conversations about Civil War and what would happen if our Military were to have to control a Pub led Civil War.
Revolution is not a bad thing. I empathize with those people, but make no mistake...they're here now because a Democrat is expanding government but were virtually no where to be found when a Republican was doing virtually the same thing. The idea of a military led Revolution absolutes scares the ever loving **** out of me in ways that I can barely express.


I just keep thinking about how folks are saying the Obama Administration is ruining our Country and yet the 8 years of the Bush Administration was heading our Country in the right direction?
Precisely right. It boils down to plain old party politics and little more.


Top it off with the 9-11 legislation that tagged on taxing off-shore accounts to pay for the legislation and the tax increases would have been on the folks who are using off-shore accounts to avoid paying taxes....taxes the rest of us pay everyday. There was talk of a 10% straight tax for 8 years during Bush but nothing happened. With the Pubs it's been about the blame game and how someone else is at fault for not getting things done.

Well said.


Bottomline is....the Pubs didn't get it done which makes them just as bad as the folks they complain about who supposedly are ruining this Country.
x2


I continually find it hard to side with the folks in either party these days and further....everytime I hear Palin speak....I hear someone's Mother-in-Law complaining about how badly her Daughter's Husband treats her Daughter. Her voice is quickly becoming a "Fingernails screaching across a Chalkboard". She is doing her political career more harm than good IMHO. Everyday she gets a bit older and a lots less HAWTer. Seeing her sitting in the seat of the POTUS is quickly becoming an image much like what most of us would have envisioned had Hillary Clinton become the 1st Woman POTUS. I'm not against having a Woman as POTUS either....I just think our Country could find much better and more Qualified Women to choose from.

God help us if we ever put Palin in office. Geraldo Rivera might as well be VP when she gets in there.

Right. On.

[Scott D]

I found a map of our bases and a list of bases and troups.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/US_military_bases_in_the_world.svg/800px-US_military_bases_in_the_world.svg.png



Find a comparable map and lists from 1996.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

"I just keep thinking about how folks are saying...the 8 years of the Bush Administration was heading our Country in the right direction?"-Stoop Troup

Who was that? It certainly wasn't anyone who called himself a conservative. (you guys like to make stuff up, but that's not new)

[Leroy Lizard]

Find a comparable map and lists from 1996.

Misleading. A country gets shaded if it has 100 troops? That could be a joint training exercise for all we know. I doubt a pre-1996 map looks much different.

[Scott D]

You'd see a stronger European presence and weaker Middle Eastern presence.

[King Crimson]

i sort of miss the neocons, at least they had a creepy vanguard party thing going on....Rove actually talking to the AM radio, hive-mind masses.....some devious shizz.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

i sort of miss the neocons, at least they had a creepy vanguard party thing going on....Rove actually talking to the AM radio, hive-mind masses.....some devious shizz.If he's going to take calls, and the screeners behave like I expect, he will get much harder questions to answer than he's used to having.

[GKeeper316]

The nazi's stood for socialism, and were also fascists. All 3 of those isms go together with authoritarianism(statism).

the nazis were nationalist socialists. there are dozens of socialist models, including the (now standard european) democratic socialism and the free-market socialism the chinese use (which is actually quite similar to how the small business administration operates)

albert einstein (whose intellect nobody can deny) theorized that socialism was the inevitable end result of any capitalist market model. according to his economic theories, the result of all capitalist systems was the eventual disparity between the rich and the poor. the rich will only get richer and the poor will only get poorer and the poor will eventually rise up and take the wealth back from the elite.

[ndpruitt03]

The poor in America are among the richest 1% in the world. You really think redistribution of wealth actually helps the poor. It has never helped the poor as much as capitalism and private enterprise has in America. Every country in world has tried some form of redistribution of wealth and it just isolates the poor and makes them poorer and keeps them out of having a chance to be rich.

[GKeeper316]

The poor in America are among the richest 1% in the world. You really think redistribution of wealth actually helps the poor. It has never helped the poor as much as capitalism and private enterprise has in America. Every country in world has tried some form of redistribution of wealth and it just isolates the poor and makes them poorer and keeps them out of having a chance to be rich.


going back to einstein... everything is relative. the poor in america may be among the richest 1% of the world's population, but look at our cost of living vs. the rest of the world.

i dont believe redistribution is a good idea (for the most part) but i also believe that employers should have the responsibility to pay their employees a wage they can live on. when the minimum wage was first introduced in the 50s a man and his wife working minimum wage jobs could afford a house, a car, and at least 2 children.

[ndpruitt03]

Minimum wage was introduced in 1930s and right after it was introduced an estimated half a million blacks lost jobs.

[GKeeper316]

Minimum wage was introduced in 1930s

ok ya you're right... it had its highest purchasing power in the 50s-60s.

[Leroy Lizard]

going back to einstein... everything is relative. the poor in america may be among the richest 1% of the world's population, but look at our cost of living vs. the rest of the world.

i dont believe redistribution is a good idea (for the most part) but i also believe that employers should have the responsibility to pay their employees a wage they can live on. when the minimum wage was first introduced in the 50s a man and his wife working minimum wage jobs could afford a house, a car, and at least 2 children.

Consider a low-level cashier position. Was there any difference in their standard of living before the minimum wage and after? I doubt a person can raise a family any better today working at minimum wage than in the past.

We keep raising the minimum wage, but the economy just adjusts to ensure that the large majority of the population has a certain amount of disposable income. If it has more than that, inflation just sets in. Otherwise, we would just raise the minimum wage to $400/hour and live like kings.

One downside of the minimum wage is that it has standardized the lowest wage, so it's harder to find a better paying job. The man across the street is paying the same wages as your current employer.

[GKeeper316]

One downside of the minimum wage is that it has standardized the lowest wage, so it's harder to find a better paying job. The man across the street is paying the same wages as your current employer.

business largely no longer engages in competitive pricing anymore.

i had a poly sci professor at OU that said the easiest way to gauge whether any real competition is happening is watch gas prices from corner to corner.

very rarely do i see it happening.

[King Crimson]

i didn't know profs could teach multiple sciences. no one complains about 3$ a gallon gas anymore.....that just shows you how "competition" has been primed by collusion.

[texaspokieokie]

LL
the way to beat minimum wage is to work harder & come to work every day,
on time.

[OklahomaTuba]

Or become first lady.

Then you get to spend 75K a day of tax payer money (or nearly twice the median annual household income of the richest nation on earth) on your vacations to exotic foreign destinations!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Show starts in less than an hour. It could be interesting.

[Leroy Lizard]

LL
the way to beat minimum wage is to work harder & come to work every day,
on time.

Thanks for that advice. I will be sure to wake up a few minutes earlier every morning.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I agree with Clinton on a lot more now than I did at the time. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that I like Clinton but there's something to be said for the fact that we had a robust economy during the 90s with a fairly substantial surplus at the end and no major wars abroad. Now...if Clinton hadn't played around with the nation building bull**** then he'd really have been something.

It wasn't Clinton, it was Newt Gingrich. He's the one that strong-armed the budget controls into place that held spending in check. After they got rid of him the corrupt Ted Stevens pubs took over.

Clinton mostly blew in the breeze. Remember his first initiative was to nationalize health care, and not the back door nationalization we're getting now, full bore single payer. He also vetoed welfare reform twice before he was finally forced to sign it (and take credit for it of course).

[OklahomaTuba]

but there's something to be said for the fact that we had a massive bubble economy during the 90s with a substantially gutted intelligence and military infrastructure at the end and our heads were in the sand of looming threats abroad. Your revisionist history is commendable, as always.

Oh, and FIFY.

:)

[SoonerAtKU]

Good thing we didn't have a huge bubble economy during our LAST presidency.

[OklahomaTuba]

Good thing we didn't have a huge bubble economy during our LAST presidency.Give Sickem time, he will try to "revise" that as well.

[SicEmBaylor]

It wasn't Clinton, it was Newt Gingrich. He's the one that strong-armed the budget controls into place that held spending in check. After they got rid of him the corrupt Ted Stevens pubs took over.

This is all true, but it's beside the point. The point is that, regardless of all the wrangling between the White House and Congress, Clinton ultimately signed those GOP Congressional budgets into law. The fact that he agreed to and signed those budgets is commendable compared to the budgets championed and signed into law by his successor.


Clinton mostly blew in the breeze. Remember his first initiative was to nationalize health care, and not the back door nationalization we're getting now, full bore single payer. He also vetoed welfare reform twice before he was finally forced to sign it (and take credit for it of course).

Again, he did blow in the breeze but that's something of a mark of a good politician. The fact that he was able to shift from an ideologically-left agenda early in his Presidency to a very pragmatic and moderate agenda later is a sign of a good President.

I'm not a Clinton lover by any means, but there's no getting around the fact that (by and large) his Presidency was not only better managed than Bush, but also more conservative in its actual results.

[texaspokieokie]

i caught a few minutes of Rove on the way to lunch & back.

very interesting !!

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Did he kill anyone?

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I'm not a Clinton lover by any means, but there's no getting around the fact that (by and large) his Presidency was not only better managed than Bush, but also more conservative in its actual results.

I'll agree with this. The biggest difference is that Clinton had Newt Gingrich forcing his change, while Bush had a corrupt Congress with a toothless Speaker and *******s like Karl Rove guiding him. In their second terms they were both basically being dragged along by other forces. Of course, that's the way most second terms are.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

i caught a few minutes of Rove on the way to lunch & back.

very interesting !!I heard a lot of the first hour of his show. He didn't say anything particularly Lib that I caught while I heard him. He said he was gonna be taking calls, though. Did anyone ask him about not cracking down on illegal immigration while at the White house? I would like to have heard him address that.

[SicEmBaylor]

I heard a lot of the first hour of his show. He didn't say anything particularly Lib that I caught while I heard him. He said he was gonna be taking calls, though. Did anyone ask him about not cracking down on illegal immigration while at the White house? I would like to have heard him address that.

He's addressed that a billion times. Let me speak for him...

He points out that hispanics traditionally have a lot in common with conservatives on social issues especially in religion and the importance they put on family. Furthermore, the Republican Party's long-term viability in general national elections is dependent upon bringing new voters into the "tent" and those new voters have to come from a minority constituency group and hispanics represent the best opportunity to make inroads with a growing ethnic community for all the reasons I listed above.

He also typically parrots the same bull**** line that the Bush administration was "tough" on illegal immigration.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

He's addressed that a billion times. Let me speak for him...

He points out that hispanics traditionally have a lot in common with conservatives on social issues especially in religion and the importance they put on family. Furthermore, the Republican Party's long-term viability in general national elections is dependent upon bringing new voters into the "tent" and those new voters have to come from a minority constituency group and hispanics represent the best opportunity to make inroads with a growing ethnic community for all the reasons I listed above.

He also typically parrots the same bull**** line that the Bush administration was "tough" on illegal immigration.Well, he might have said something like that before, but the specific question of ILLEGAL immigration is what I was referring to. I would guess that, at least nowadays, he might agree with you and me that ILLEGAL is not good. But, I guess you think you can speak for him, and you think he's OK with illegals coming in. You didn't listen to him today, did you?

[Scott D]

no, but you apparently had to change kleenex boxes during the hour mark of the show. :pop:

[PDXsooner]

Rove is an absolute sack of crap. Why waste your time listening to any of the verbal diarrhea that falls out of his cake-hole?

[Crucifax Autumn]

I ****ed the 14th ammendment and she begged for more.

[SicEmBaylor]

I ****ed the 14th ammendment and she begged for more.

I hope you slit her throat and threw her into the river after you were finished. For an encore, do the same thing to her whore sister the 17th.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Nah, both of them are marginally more intelligent than Hannity. Marginally...I think both are FAR more intelligent than Hannity. Beck is JUST as moronic, but he has the dangerous addition of emotional and mental instability, delusions of grandeur, paranoia and a kung-fu action grip.

[Chuck Bao]

I think both are FAR more intelligent than Hannity. Beck is JUST as moronic, but he has the dangerous addition of emotional and mental instability, delusions of grandeur, paranoia and a kung-fu action grip.

I don't understand this at all.

My mom is an intelligent and educated woman and she was telling me a few months ago about how much she loves Beck. While we were shelling peas together after picking them in the early morning, my mom got a call from one of her friends that Beck was on TV and she had to turn on the TV right now.

We were watching WBA and my mom loves women's basketball, largely because she has been avidly following OU women's basketball for 10+ years and somehow knows all of the players from whatever university.

Although I vowed not to stay in the room, I kept helping my mom shell peas because I really want to eat them. Talk about moronic and idiotic. The crap he spewed was just political. I told her that I could easily disprove everything he said. She didn't believe me. I took my peas to shell out on the porch swing.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I don't understand this at all.

My mom is an intelligent and educated woman and she was telling me a few months ago about how much she loves Beck. While we were shelling peas together after picking them in the early morning, my mom got a call from one of her friends that Beck was on TV and she had to turn on the TV right now.

We were watching WBA and my mom loves women's basketball, largely because she has been avidly following OU women's basketball for 10+ years and somehow knows all of the players from whatever university.

Although I vowed not to stay in the room, I kept helping my mom shell peas because I really want to eat them. Talk about moronic and idiotic. The crap he spewed was just political. I told her that I could easily disprove everything he said. She didn't believe me. I took my peas to shell out on the porch swing.Should Beck be banned?

[LosAngelesSooner]

Of COURSE not. This is America. We should never ban free speech here.

But we should mock idiots like Hannity, crazy demagogues like Beck and racists like Rush as much as humanly possible.

[ndpruitt03]

There's a lot I would call Rush. Racist isn't one of them. Most of MSNBC is more racist than Rush is.

[Leroy Lizard]

There's a lot I would call Rush. Racist isn't one of them. Most of MSNBC [and certain politicians] is more racist than Rush is.

FIFY

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

There's a lot I would call Rush. Racist isn't one of them. Most of MSNBC is more racist than Rush is.Calling Limbaugh racist is either incredibly stupid, or it's Democrat Taqiyya-fighting that war.

[LosAngelesSooner]

"I just keep thinking about how folks are saying...the 8 years of the Bush Administration was heading our Country in the right direction?"-Stoop Troup

Who was that? It certainly wasn't anyone who called himself a conservative. (you guys like to make stuff up, but that's not new)Uhm...YOU SAID IT, for one.

What, you think we don't have memories around here? :rolleyes:

[LosAngelesSooner]

Calling Limbaugh racist is either incredibly stupid, or it's Democrat Taqiyya-fighting that war.
Yeah. I guess all those racist things he's said don't make him a racist. :rolleyes:

You realize you don't fool anyone with your doublespeak, don't you?