OMG, Sam Bradford receiving some hazing! [Archive]

stoops the eternal pimp

8/2/2010, 08:40 AM

The hazing of quarterback Sam Bradford, who signed the most lucrative rookie contract in NFL history, began in earnest Saturday evening after his first practice with the St. Louis Rams.

"He had a rough night, just so you all know," coach Steve Spagnuolo said Sunday. "Just the razzing. But he survived.”

Among other things, Bradford was designated as the return man for the first two punts of the first special-teams session at Sunday morning's practice. Dutifully, Bradford took his position downfield for Donnie Jones' punts.

However, Bradford came nowhere close to trying to field the balls, back-pedaling quickly away.

"He’s fired by the way, because he didn’t catch either one of them," Spagnuolo quipped.
.

Boomer.....

8/2/2010, 08:42 AM

Dez Bryant would have said no.

;)

OU-HSV

8/2/2010, 08:45 AM

Step, I was laughing my *** off yesterday when I saw Spagnuolo talking about that on the Rams' website. Good stuff.

stoops the eternal pimp

8/2/2010, 08:48 AM

I wish I could have heard him singing in front of the team...

delhalew

8/2/2010, 08:51 AM

He should have run them in...THAT would have been funny...as long as he was still wearing that red jersey:D

OU-HSV

8/2/2010, 08:58 AM

He should have run them in...THAT would have been funny...as long as he was still wearing that red jersey:D

Haha, that would've been funny if he actually returned them, would've freaked out his teammates. But I guarantee you coach Spag said, "Sam back away from the punt...we're not paying you to get lit up on punt returns, this is just for fun...don't even think about it, just back away"

delhalew

8/2/2010, 09:05 AM

They all would have been too busy gawking and laughing to lite him up, besides...would you want to be the player that laid one on Sam? 78 mil and red jersey is like magic.

Aries

8/2/2010, 09:49 AM

Just the act of trying to catch the punt could have resulted in a broken finger. The Rams are already snake-bit over broken pinkie fingers.

:-)

Leroy Lizard

8/2/2010, 11:10 AM

LOL if he had hurt his hand fielding the punt.

Eielson

8/2/2010, 11:18 AM

Oh no! Hazing is bad!

Eielson

8/2/2010, 11:19 AM

Just the act of trying to catch the punt could have resulted in a broken finger. The Rams are already snake-bit over broken pinkie fingers.

:-)

SHUT UP!

Leroy Lizard

8/2/2010, 11:44 AM

Oh no! Hazing is bad!

I can see carrying some other player's pads as hazing, but fielding a punt?

Now, if he was expected to be tackled, then he refused to participate:

However, Bradford came nowhere close to trying to field the balls, back-pedaling quickly away.

stoops the eternal pimp

8/2/2010, 11:46 AM

and he had to sing in front of the team...horrible

goingoneight

8/2/2010, 11:52 AM

Isn't there some sort of rookie harassment everywhere in life? The substitute teacher, the new kid on the block, n00bie in the office?

StoopTroup

8/2/2010, 12:03 PM

You've been a QB for a few years now in college and for fun you from time to time have fielded the occassional punt just out screwing around on the field....then your 1st day of NFL Training Camp they toss you on the field in front of your peers and a NFL caliber punter starts screaming punts towards you....

I just got 50 million guaranteed....and...I'm gonna watch those babies sail over my head and then say..."Very impressive. That guy has a heck of a leg on him. I'd sign him Coach."

Leroy Lizard

8/2/2010, 12:13 PM

Isn't there some sort of rookie harassment everywhere in life? The substitute teacher, the new kid on the block, n00bie in the office?

That's a given. The question is, "Should there be?" That is the question in which there appears to be wide disagreement.

Leroy Lizard

8/2/2010, 12:21 PM

You've been a QB for a few years now in college and for fun you from time to time have fielded the occassional punt just out screwing around on the field....then your 1st day of NFL Training Camp they toss you on the field in front of your peers and a NFL caliber punter starts screaming punts towards you....

Exactly how does one go about screaming a punt? If it's a 40-yard punt, it's a 40-yard punt, no matter who kicked it.

delhalew

8/2/2010, 12:23 PM

I think it's good to weed out folks that are wound too tight. I just don't think a persons health should be endangered or be seriously demeaned.

Leroy Lizard

8/2/2010, 12:32 PM

I think it's good to weed out folks that are wound too tight. I just don't think a persons health should be endangered or be seriously demeaned.

I think we need to distinguish between an initiation ritual and hazing. Hazing by its nature must be unpleasant and something the noob doesn't want to do, but feels he must to belong.

Singing a fight song is probably an initiation ritual. It's just a harmless custom.

rawlingsHOH

8/2/2010, 01:51 PM

prrriiide

8/2/2010, 01:58 PM

I think we need to distinguish between an initiation ritual and hazing. Hazing by its nature must be unpleasant and something the noob doesn't want to do, but feels he must to belong.

Singing a fight song is probably an initiation ritual. It's just a harmless custom.

DO you actually think for one second that, under coaching supervision, any NFL organization is going to let anything happen to their franchise player? It's called team-building, and it happens to work.

delhalew

8/2/2010, 02:00 PM

Yeah, same with carrying pads.

Yep, and carrying luggage and picking up the tab at dinner.

SunnySooner

8/2/2010, 02:01 PM

I love that they're hazing him, I liked this quote too...

"How 'bout that bleepin' kid?" eight-year veteran offensive tackle Adam Goldberg said as he watched Bradford walk off the field after practice. "I mean, how 'bout him, huh? He's so cool and calm for a rookie. Doesn't act like anything gets to him. I couldn't believe how even-keeled he was out there. Walked into the huddle like he'd been there all his life. Now we'll have to see how that all works when another team's blitz package is thrown at him. But man, today he walked right into the huddle and took control. (Veteran center Hank) Fraley and I looked at each other and both of us said, 'Hmmmmm.' We noticed right away how the kid had immediate command as soon as he came into the huddle."

Sounds like it's not getting him too rattled. ;)

Serge Ibaka

8/2/2010, 02:02 PM

I would have fielded the punt and then executed a perfect QB-slide just before contact.

That would have been funny.

soonerboomer93

8/2/2010, 02:03 PM

Step, I was laughing my *** off yesterday when I saw Spagnuolo talking about that on the Rams' website. Good stuff.

http://www.stlouisrams.com/multimedia/mediacenter/

Also was funny when they talked about the Oklahoma Drill in the beginning

delhalew

8/2/2010, 02:11 PM

I love that they're hazing him, I liked this quote too...

Sounds like it's not getting him too rattled. ;)

It's a miracle he didn't ask coach what those guys were doing in a circle out there after meerkating a crick in his neck in college :D

OU-HSV

8/2/2010, 03:28 PM

http://www.stlouisrams.com/multimedia/mediacenter/

Also was funny when they talked about the Oklahoma Drill in the beginning

Yeah I caught that too...pretty funny

Leroy Lizard

8/2/2010, 03:40 PM

DO you actually think for one second that, under coaching supervision, any NFL organization is going to let anything happen to their franchise player? It's called team-building, and it happens to work.

You're going to have a hard time substantiating your claim.

Yeah, same with carrying pads.

Completely disagree. The whole point of being forced to carry someone else's pads is to demonstrate servitude and, in my opinion, humiliating.

If the team assigns the rookie to carry the pads for the team, that's one thing. (Although that is questionable too.) Having an individual player single you out for such tasks is just submitting to being someone's bitch.

And anyone joining a company that allows himself to be treated like that has no spine at all.

If you disagree, demand that the secretary where you work fetch your coffee. Don't ask nicely. Demand it, like Roy did. Try that in front of a customer and watch the customer's reaction.

I agree with Dez. Tell the vet to go **** himself.

soonerborn30

8/2/2010, 03:42 PM

Riiiight. Because the average Joe's office is the same thing as a football field.

Leroy Lizard

8/2/2010, 03:49 PM

Riiiight. Because the average Joe's office is the same thing as a football field.

Professionalism is professionalism. You either treat people with respect, or you don't.

soonerloyal

8/2/2010, 06:20 PM

Exactly how does one go about screaming a punt?

Dunno why, but it reminded me of a "screaming liner"...

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hV6PwJ4ZhZg&hl=en_US&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hV6PwJ4ZhZg&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Leroy Lizard

8/2/2010, 06:33 PM

I didn't know baseballs did that. It's amazing what we can learn from high-speed film.

AlbqSooner

8/2/2010, 07:32 PM

It's amazing what we can learn.

Leroy - are ya listening to yourself??:D

SoonerLB

8/2/2010, 07:44 PM

It's a miracle he didn't ask coach what those guys were doing in a circle out there after meerkating a crick in his neck in college :D

BWAAHAHAHAAAAA!!! Now that there's funny IMHO! :D

prrriiide

8/2/2010, 09:21 PM

You're going to have a hard time substantiating your claim.

Not at all. The hazing that happens in the military is far more than any fraternity guy or NFL player could even dream of. Yet those soldiers come out of boot camp ready to take a bullet for the DI that hazed them.

Hardship and privation form a bond between those that have experienced it together.

swardboy

8/2/2010, 09:25 PM

You've gotta love that Mardy Gilyard...I think he was looking for veterans pads to carry at his first practice. He's a great kid and I hope he tears it up for the Rams this year.

Leroy Lizard

8/2/2010, 09:32 PM

Not at all. The hazing that happens in the military is far more than any fraternity guy or NFL player could even dream of. Yet those soldiers come out of boot camp ready to take a bullet for the DI that hazed them.

Hardship and privation form a bond between those that have experienced it together.

Hmmm... http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/marines/a/marinehazing.htm

Have fun.

Here's the official Marine Corps policy on hazing:

http://www.usmc.mil/news/publications/Documents/MCO%201700.28.pdf

delhalew

8/2/2010, 09:40 PM

Did you order the code red!! Your gawddamn right I did!!!
There is no way you are that naïve Leroy.

Leroy Lizard

8/2/2010, 09:52 PM

Did you order the code red!! Your gawddamn right I did!!!
There is no way you are that naïve Leroy.

Pretty lame response, there. The Commandant of the Marine Corps specifically states the following:

The individual Marine is the Corps. How we recruit, train, and instill in Marines our core values and a sense of integrity and accountability, equip them to do their jobs, and treat them with dignity, care and concern must be our principal emphasis. This is a leadership issue. This is a warfighting issue. Marines do not go into harm’s way, make the sacrifices they always have, or give up their precious lives because they have been hazed or initiated into
some self-defined, "elite" sub-culture. They perform these heroic acts of selflessness because they are United States Marines and because they refuse to let their fellow Marines down.

Show me the evidence that hazing actually works.

The Marine Corps won't say that it does. In fact the Commandant of the Marine Corps says it doesn't. In fact, it's banned.

I know of almost no coaches that go along with it. (In fact, some of the most successful claimed the contrary and banned it. Paul Brown and Bill Walsh come to mind.) It's been banned on campuses.

delhalew

8/2/2010, 10:11 PM

Pretty lame response, there. The Commandant of the Marine Corps specifically states the following:

Show me the evidence that hazing actually works.

The Marine Corps won't say that it does. In fact the Commandant of the Marine Corps says it doesn't. In fact, it's banned.

I know of almost no coaches that go along with it. (In fact, some of the most successful claimed the contrary and banned it. Paul Brown and Bill Walsh come to mind.) It's been banned on campuses.

And yet it happens anyway...now tell me about lame again.
Regardless of accepted policy, every one of the trades or even social groups I have ever entered into involved some form of mild hazing. The level of hazing usaully coresponds directly with directly with the level of "brotherhood" or need to rely on one another. It may not be the best way, but it is our society's standard operating procedure.

Leroy Lizard

8/2/2010, 10:56 PM

And yet it happens anyway...now tell me about lame again.
Regardless of accepted policy, every one of the trades or even social groups I have ever entered into involved some form of mild hazing. The level of hazing usaully coresponds directly with directly with the level of "brotherhood" or need to rely on one another. It may not be the best way, but it is our society's standard operating procedure.

And if I was arguing that it never happened, your comments would be relevant.

And you say, "Regardless of accepted policy..." If it was really valuable, why wouldn't it be accepted?

We all know it happens. The question is, "Does it have any real value?" The Marine Corps says no. Many of our most winningest coaches say no. I don't know of any industrial leaders that believe in it.

So where's the evidence that is effective? (I know, I know... "Well, when I was pledging we had to run naked into the streets... and, and... that made me better because, like, I felt a real bond with Nick, especially after he had his friends tie me to a pole and urinate on me...")

Eielson

8/2/2010, 11:12 PM

Wow. Leroy fagged up another thread about hazing that could've been fun.

Leroy Lizard

8/2/2010, 11:14 PM

Wow. Leroy fagged up another thread about hazing that could've been fun.

Is this you?

Oh no! Hazing is bad!

Sounds like the opening shot.

delhalew

8/2/2010, 11:51 PM

And if I was arguing that it never happened, your comments would be relevant.

And you say, "Regardless of accepted policy..." If it was really valuable, why wouldn't it be accepted?

We all know it happens. The question is, "Does it have any real value?" The Marine Corps says no. Many of our most winningest coaches say no. I don't know of any industrial leaders that believe in it.

So where's the evidence that is effective? (I know, I know... "Well, when I was pledging we had to run naked into the streets... and, and... that made me better because, like, I felt a real bond with Nick, especially after he had his friends tie me to a pole and urinate on me...")

Oh THAT'S what we're talking about. With you it's hard to tell...Circular arguments that last for months and all.
It's not my place to say if it has value. All I can do is decide if it's worth tolerating or if I want to perpetuate it. Apparently making these descisions for other people is your job...so I'll leave you to it.

Leroy Lizard

8/3/2010, 12:28 AM

Oh THAT'S what we're talking about. With you it's hard to tell...Circular arguments that last for months and all.
It's not my place to say if it has value. All I can do is decide if it's worth tolerating or if I want to perpetuate it. Apparently making these descisions for other people is your job...so I'll leave you to it.

Show me any time in this thread where I argued whether hazing occurred? Go ahead and look through the thread.

I have been consistent throughout this thread: Hazing happens, but it shouldn't.

I have repeatedly asked for any evidence that hazing is effective, and have received nothing.

"It happens in the NFL!" Yeah, but no NFL team sanctions it to my knowledge and a lot of great coaches have banned it. Certainly no one has offered a contemporary coach so far in this thread that says he supports hazing.

"It happens in the military!" Yeah, but even the Marine Corps doesn't condone it and outright bans it. Hell, the Commandant comes right out and states it is ineffective. Shouldn't the Commandant know what it takes to make a fighting team?

So now, we will change the strategy and blame me for starting the argument (Eieison) or being inconsistent (you). But until you can put something up worthwhile, you've got nothing.

And I do mean nothing.

RiddlerOK

8/3/2010, 12:53 AM

Here's one for you Leroy. Why don't you show everybody here why hazing SHOULDN'T happen? You are so busy trying to shut everybody else up by soliciting proof of effective hazing while suggesting sources where you know it won't originate.

I spent a considerable amount of time in the military. I was hazed two times and I participated in hazing on two other occasions, in the form of Shellback inititation ceremonies while serving in the U.S. Navy.

I will tell you firsthand that the activities WERE sanctioned by the commanding officers of the commands where I participated, that the activities DID involve physical belittling and exposure of several crew members to unpleasant environments and that the activities DID build espirit de corps amongst the members of the command. In the end, everybody who participated had a multitude of stories to tell their loved ones following these ceremonies.

I will also tell you that the gay, PWMF'ed whining anti-social moaners who spoke out against these activities were put in their place appropriately (with, mind you, no physical harm conducted against them). Do you consider yourself one who would rather speak out against hazing than to be a participant? Looks like you do to me......

Your rants sound to me like a little drone, who incessantly rumbles to life, with no other purpose than to question everything surrounding him. Please go drone somewhere where your opinion will actually serve the discussion and not polarize the participants.

yankee

8/3/2010, 12:57 AM

Show me the evidence that hazing actually works.

The Marine Corps won't say that it does. In fact the Commandant of the Marine Corps says it doesn't. In fact, it's banned.

I know of almost no coaches that go along with it. (In fact, some of the most successful claimed the contrary and banned it. Paul Brown and Bill Walsh come to mind.) It's been banned on campuses.

oh. my. god. you are the biggest negative nancy i have ever seen on the interwebz. i suggest you read War, by Sebastian Junger (the guy who wrote the Perfect Storm). that might change your mind on hazing and the military, although that is not the premise of the book. but it goes into it. then maybe that will spare everyone of your constant bitching.

Leroy Lizard

8/3/2010, 01:37 AM

Here's one for you Leroy. Why don't you show everybody here why hazing SHOULDN'T happen?

There are statements made by top leaders in sports and the military that support my position, and they're all over the place. There are stories about hazing gone wrong everywhere. We even have laws against it.

Most people would say that that's pretty good evidence that the effectiveness of hazing is dubious at best.

I spent a considerable amount of time in the military.

Yeah, but not as much as the Commandant of the Marine Corps. And I can guarantee you that General Krulak knows more about leadership than you do.

Let's see... Masters Degree in Labor Relations (imagine that). Served for, what, 35 years. Son of a general.

And while all you offer are personal stories that may or may not be true, I can post the official document signed by the Commandant. It's even in the Marine Corps' regulations.

Here, in case you didn't read it before:

http://www.usmc.mil/news/publications/Documents/MCO%201700.28.pdf

4. Policy. Hazing is prohibited. No Marine, or service member attached to a Marine command, including Marine detachments, may engage in hazing or consent to acts of hazing being committed upon them. No one in a supervisory position may, by act, word, or omission, condone or ignore hazing if he or she knows or reasonably should have known that hazing may occur. Consent to hazing is not a defense to violating this Order. Any violation, attempted violation, or solicitation of another to violate this order, subjects involved members to disciplinary action under Article 92 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). This Order does not prevent charging those who have engaged in acts of hazing under other applicable UCMJ articles to include, but not limited to Article 80 (attempts), Article 81 (conspiracy), Article 93 (cruelty and maltreatment), Article 124 (maiming), Article 128 (assault), Article 133 (conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman) and Article 134 (indecent assault, drunk and disorderly conduct, and/or solicitation). This Order is a lawful general order and is effective immediately without further implementation.

Leroy Lizard

8/3/2010, 01:41 AM

oh. my. god. you are the biggest negative nancy i have ever seen on the interwebz. i suggest you read War, by Sebastian Junger (the guy who wrote the Perfect Storm). that might change your mind on hazing and the military, although that is not the premise of the book. but it goes into it. then maybe that will spare everyone of your constant bitching.

So, we start off with a personal attack, rather than refute anything I posted. Then, instead of posting real evidence, you ask me to go buy a ****ing book!

WTF?

If hazing was really effective, the evidence for it would be everywhere.

Well?

oudavid1

8/3/2010, 05:29 AM

ok 2 things on football and hazing

1.) This sport is for men so take your skirt off

and dos

Life isnt fair.

Hazing is hazing, but i wont ask Dez to do anything and i hope no one ever does. If it hurts his feelings (which it has so because it obviously bothers him too carry pads) then we will just leave him alone

colleyvillesooner

8/3/2010, 07:08 AM

I don't come around as much as I used to but is every thread reduced to this by the third page? I have no idea who Leroy is, but damn if I can't click on the third page of a fun Sam tread and know that's why it made it 3 pages.

It's uncanny.

gaylordfan1

8/3/2010, 08:12 AM

Man, I got hazed when I started on this board! I feel so violated! :(

Mississippi Sooner

8/3/2010, 08:58 AM

I'm just gonna throw this out there, and then get no further involved in this debate, because I been there and done that with regards to Marine boot camp. Although, admittedly it was over 25 years ago.

I know the Marines have all these guidelines written down. There are rules that say that not only can a drill instructor not lay a hand on a recruit, they are not even supposed to cuss in front of recruits. Those rules were broken with reckless abandon while I was at MCRD San Diego.

It may well have changed in the intervening time. I know that the way the training program is structured has certainly changed in the last 20 years.

sooner518

8/3/2010, 09:05 AM

There are statements made by top leaders in sports and the military that support my position, and they're all over the place. There are stories about hazing gone wrong everywhere. We even have laws against it.

Most people would say that that's pretty good evidence that the effectiveness of hazing is dubious at best.

Yeah, but not as much as the Commandant of the Marine Corps. And I can guarantee you that General Krulak knows more about leadership than you do.

Let's see... Masters Degree in Labor Relations (imagine that). Served for, what, 35 years. Son of a general.

And while all you offer are personal stories that may or may not be true, I can post the official document signed by the Commandant. It's even in the Marine Corps' regulations.

Here, in case you didn't read it before:

http://www.usmc.mil/news/publications/Documents/MCO%201700.28.pdf

wow. you really think that the Commandant of the Marine Corps is going to come out and say that he approves of hazing? He'd be fired in 5 seconds!

You whined and begged for proof that hazing might be of some value, so RiddlerOK gave you personal examples of how hazing built comraderie amongst his team while in the Navy. And you dismiss it by copy/pasting the "Official" Marine Corps regulations regarding it. OBviously it is "officially" banned/frowned upon. However, if it were REALLY banned (in practice), then military leadership would do something to actively stop it. OBviously, from RiddlerOK's post, this hasn't happenned. I bet if other military people posted, they would have similar stories.

Im not even arguing whether it is beneficial or harmful. Im just letting you know that your argument is weak

delhalew

8/3/2010, 09:13 AM

soonerborn30

8/3/2010, 12:15 PM

wow. you really think that the Commandant of the Marine Corps is going to come out and say that he approves of hazing? He'd be fired in 5 seconds!

You whined and begged for proof that hazing might be of some value, so RiddlerOK gave you personal examples of how hazing built comraderie amongst his team while in the Navy. And you dismiss it by copy/pasting the "Official" Marine Corps regulations regarding it. OBviously it is "officially" banned/frowned upon. However, if it were REALLY banned (in practice), then military leadership would do something to actively stop it. OBviously, from RiddlerOK's post, this hasn't happenned. I bet if other military people posted, they would have similar stories.

Im not even arguing whether it is beneficial or harmful. Im just letting you know that your argument is weak

THIS^^^

I am not a military person. I have many friends that are, however. I can tell you that every single one of them was hazed without exception. So, like the man I quoted said, just because that the "official" stance says that it's bad doesn't mean that's how it actually goes down in the barracks.

I have a buddy in the Marine Corps. He confirmed that it still happens. Mind you, hazing isn't a concrete term. It's different things to different people. So what someone like Leroy would consider hazing is considered Tuesday morning by Marines. Are they hooking up new recruits' jewels to a car battery? No. But they're most definitely doing things that some of the weaker-stomached on this board would definitely not approve of.

I suppose, Leroy, that you believe every other official document the U.S. Military puts out? It came from the desk of the Commandant, it must be gospel, right? :rolleyes:

goingoneight

8/3/2010, 12:45 PM

The way I see hazing is someone with an inferiority complex (TFRW) flexing their muscles to the new guy (Bryant). The nervous punk (TFRW) is all crybabyish because it happened to him and everybody else should just suck it up and take it like a man.

I've never liked hazing. I've never picked on the n00bie. But I don't go crying to ESPN (the boss) when someone puts a water balloon in my chair at work.

AZSOONER

8/3/2010, 01:20 PM

Just the act of trying to catch the punt could have resulted in a broken finger. The Rams are already snake-bit over broken pinkie fingers.

:-)

That's exactly what I was thinking when they were talking about it.

soonerloyal

8/3/2010, 01:36 PM

Official USMC policy on hazing is (of course) pretty much zero-tolerance. Does it occur? Absolutely, and my sons thought it was funny as hell, on the receiving and giving ends in the Fleet. The Water baptisms, being sent to procure 1000 feet of "flight line", being taped to your rack, being "pinned" - rites of passage, all of which they were proud to experience and earn. Hell, the 13 weeks at both Recruit Depots is one huge hazing/weeding out/training/induction/immersion process. The Corps does two things: win battles, and makes Marines. They do what they do better than anyone on the planet, and this mama wouldn't change a damn thing.

But there's hazing, and HAZING - and who's doing it. Arguably, there's a huge difference between Marine recruits getting thrashed and made into sugar cookies or having their new rank being punched 'n gouged into their chests (OOHRAH!), old-school college & pro football players getting beaten and despoiled (Lance Rentzel's graphic descriptions, anyone?) and preteen girls getting humiliated into a social club. Totally different matters, never the twain should meet in my opinion. Hazing doesn't bring a blink to my eye regarding my sons' time on Active Duty; it would enrage me if it involved them at age 8 on a soccer team.

JMOO.

Leroy Lizard

8/3/2010, 03:01 PM

wow. you really think that the Commandant of the Marine Corps is going to come out and say that he approves of hazing? He'd be fired in 5 seconds!

Why? If it's a proven method for building camaraderie...

You whined and begged for proof that hazing might be of some value, so RiddlerOK gave you personal examples of how hazing built comraderie amongst his team while in the Navy. And you dismiss it by copy/pasting the "Official" Marine Corps regulations regarding it. OBviously it is "officially" banned/frowned upon. However, if it were REALLY banned (in practice), then military leadership would do something to actively stop it. OBviously, from RiddlerOK's post, this hasn't happenned. I bet if other military people posted, they would have similar stories.

Im not even arguing whether it is beneficial or harmful.

But that's the argument!

C'mon guys, pay attention. The argument is whether hazing is good, not whether it takes place.

We all agree that it takes place. Okay?

Let me type that again.

I AGREE THAT IT HAPPENS. WE ALL KNOW IT HAPPENS.

@^&%&#@!!!!

Leroy Lizard

8/3/2010, 03:04 PM

I suppose, Leroy, that you believe every other official document the U.S. Military puts out? It came from the desk of the Commandant, it must be gospel, right? :rolleyes:

Again, since we seem to have a reading comprehension problem here.

I KNOW HAZING HAPPENS. WE AGREE IT OCCURS.

If it didn't occur, there would be nothing to debate.

Leroy Lizard

8/3/2010, 03:12 PM

Official USMC policy on hazing is (of course) pretty much zero-tolerance. Does it occur? Absolutely, and my sons thought it was funny as hell, on the receiving and giving ends in the Fleet. The Water baptisms, being sent to procure 1000 feet of "flight line", being taped to your rack, being "pinned" - rites of passage, all of which they were proud to experience and earn. Hell, the 13 weeks at both Recruit Depots is one huge hazing/weeding out/training/induction/immersion process.
JMOO.

Read the Marine Corps policy. It clearly distinguishes between brutal training practices and hazing.

Training practices are tied to real-life conditions that may occur. Hazing isn't.

Training practices look rational to outside observers, even if they look overly harsh. Hazing looks stupid.

Training practices are not only defend-able, but something the Marines brag about. Hazing is something the military tries to distance itself from.

Hiking for 50 miles? Training.

Getting peed on by fellow soldiers. Hazing. (Unless you plan to invade a waste storage facility.)

soonerboomer93

8/3/2010, 04:28 PM

yeah, hooray,

way to **** up another thread

bunch of ****ing worthless ****heads posting around here lately

yankee

8/3/2010, 04:29 PM

So, we start off with a personal attack, rather than refute anything I posted. Then, instead of posting real evidence, you ask me to go buy a ****ing book!

WTF?

If hazing was really effective, the evidence for it would be everywhere.

Well?

real evidence? you want real evidence, look at the ****ing thread and the responses about the personal experiences with hazing in the military. get a ****ing grip. you must've missed out on a lot in life if you're being such a ***** about this.

stoops the eternal pimp

8/3/2010, 04:31 PM

Anybody want to talk about football?

Mississippi Sooner

8/3/2010, 04:40 PM

Anybody want to talk about football?

I'm pretty hazy on that subject.

Leroy Lizard

8/3/2010, 04:47 PM

real evidence? you want real evidence, look at the ****ing thread and the responses about the personal experiences with hazing in the military.

So a personal story told by an anonymous poster is evidence? You're a real scientist.

Nothing anyone has posted really addresses the benefits of hazing, only that it occurred. Big whoop.

Eielson

8/3/2010, 06:19 PM

Anybody want to talk about football?

I do! Sam is going to lead the Rams deep into the playoffs. It will be kinda like Sanchez last year...except Bradford will actually be good.

stoops the eternal pimp

8/3/2010, 06:32 PM

Eielson

8/3/2010, 06:54 PM

Here is the difference in those scenarios Eilson..

Rams have the worst WR corp in the league...IMO
No depth at RB behind Jackson...
Sanchez had/has a better defense..

Bradford had a subpar morning going 8-16, throwing into traffic..but Marty Gilyard continues to show inconsistent hands by dropping 2 (and muffing a punt)

Wow, wait to burst my bubble! :(

I feel we are going to score more than 11 points per game, though. That was one of the worst offenses I've ever endured watching last year. Hopefully a receiver or two will step up this year. Several of them showed at least a little potential. Gibson looked really good against the Saints and if we could've pulled off the upset, he would've been a big reason why. Avery looked promising as a rookie. I had some hope for Robinson before he got hurt early in the season last year. It would be nice if we could put a contender together before Jackson starts to decline (which is unfortunately soon). I feel bad that he's had to be on such bad teams.

(and I was just kidding about deep in the playoffs. This is the only time of year a Ram's fan can have hope, so I'm trying to take full advantage of it.)

soonerborn30

8/4/2010, 08:18 AM

sooner518

8/4/2010, 08:30 AM

Why? If it's a proven method for building camaraderie...

Because politically it is frowned upon. Like I said, if the marine corps was really that against it, they would take active steps to stop it. Since you agree that it happens, I'd say it's pretty obvious they haven't done a whole lot aside from putting some rules in the handbook prohibiting it.

But that's the argument!

C'mon guys, pay attention. The argument is whether hazing is good, not whether it takes place.

We all agree that it takes place. Okay?

Let me type that again.

I AGREE THAT IT HAPPENS. WE ALL KNOW IT HAPPENS.

@^&%&#@!!!!

His example was NOT ONLY that it took place, but that it built comraderie among his team members. ie: that it was good! (Which is exactly what I said in my first post, but you must've missed that....)

oh but I'm sure you'll dismiss his account as "an anonymous message board post", which you dont count as proof. so, if that is the case, I guess I'll just give up since I'm not going to personally find someone who has been in the military and drive them to your house so they can tell it to you in person.

stoops the eternal pimp

8/4/2010, 08:33 AM

Isn't Jackson already on the decline? I mean a RB's career is usually only 5 years on average, right? He's got to be getting close to the downhill part of his career, especially considering the pounding he probably took last year.

Jackson isn't the average rb so its hard to say...he keeps himself in shape and quietly goes about his business, ala curtis martin....

The Rams have nothing behind him at all, so he is gonna get a lot of work again this year

OU4LIFE

8/4/2010, 09:55 AM

yeah, hooray,

way to **** up another thread

bunch of ****ing worthless ****heads posting around here lately

lately?

Leroy Lizard

8/4/2010, 01:13 PM

Because politically it is frowned upon. Like I said, if the marine corps was really that against it, they would take active steps to stop it. Since you agree that it happens, I'd say it's pretty obvious they haven't done a whole lot aside from putting some rules in the handbook prohibiting it.

Consider public drunkenness.

Supported by the Marine Corps? No.
Have they stamped it out? No.
Have they thrown their might into stopping it? No.

Hazing probably doesn't rank up there as a huge priority for the Marines, but they clearly do not support it. The document signed by the Commandant is very strongly worded and makes no bones about it.

There is a big reason why the Marines don't want hazing, and should give pause to anyone that supports it: Hazing allows those who have not been granted authority the ability to abuse their false sense of power. (In this case, the power comes from being a veteran.)

Do you really think the Dallas Cowboys want to entrust an idiot like TFRW to the role of Camp Commander? This affair blew up in the media probably because TFRW handled the situation poorly by making a jackass of himself. And hazing allows those things to happen.

So sooner or later, someone dies or is seriously injured because the people who decided, on their own whim, to be in charge of rookie initiation took it too far.

If hazing was really necessary, the Marines would install it and regulate it. They don't want it around because it is just a problem waiting to happen with no real benefit.

His example was NOT ONLY that it took place, but that [B]it built comraderie among his team members. ie: that it was good!

It's a personal anecdote that may not even be true. Hell, I have no way of knowing if he was even in the military. We can make up stories to support our points of view all day.

But, let's suppose he's right. Let's suppose that hazing is really an effective leadership tool. Then the evidence for it would be everywhere. The military would embrace it and place strict codes of conduct on how it should take place, like they do training. They don't. In fact, I can't find any organization that embraces it as a leadership tool.

oh but I'm sure you'll dismiss his account as "an anonymous message board post", which you dont count as proof.

PROOF!?!? It isn't even evidence. It's garbage.

My next door neighbor is a marine general. He said that they commissioned a panel of military experts to investigate the efficacy of hazing, and found it mostly harmful.

There! I just refuted your argument. You have no choice now but to concede.

so, if that is the case, I guess I'll just give up since I'm not going to personally find someone who has been in the military and drive them to your house so they can tell it to you in person.

No, the evidence for the effectiveness of hazing should be easy to find if it was really there. We don't need to rely on personal accounts.

stoops the eternal pimp

8/4/2010, 01:48 PM

Rams practicing in full uniform today...started practice about 20 minutes ago...probably gonna cut it short with the 100 degree plus heat kickin

Mississippi Sooner

8/4/2010, 02:01 PM

stoops the eternal pimp

8/4/2010, 02:03 PM

I couldnt imagine trying to do two a days anymore...the only thing I do twice a day now is s*** and that takes all my energy

AZSOONER

8/4/2010, 04:13 PM

I do! Sam is going to lead the Rams deep into the playoffs. It will be kinda like Sanchez last year...except Bradford will actually be good.

I don't think Sam will play this season.

AZSOONER

8/4/2010, 04:14 PM

I couldnt imagine trying to do two a days anymore...the only thing I do twice a day now is s*** and that takes all my energy

Eat more cheese and that number will be cut in half.

Mad Dog Madsen

8/4/2010, 04:20 PM

2 very intelligent post in row. Niiice!!!

tator

8/4/2010, 04:28 PM

tator

8/4/2010, 04:29 PM

I'm pretty hazy on that subject.
I see what you did there...

stoops the eternal pimp

8/4/2010, 04:29 PM

tator? who the **** are you?

tator

8/4/2010, 04:38 PM

watch your asteriks, preacher man

stoops the eternal pimp

8/4/2010, 04:41 PM

those astericks could mean anything....benchwarmer

Mad Dog Madsen

8/4/2010, 04:48 PM

those astericks could mean anything....benchwarmer

Neg him to death like you did me back in the day! :D

stoops the eternal pimp

8/4/2010, 04:49 PM

I negged you to death?...seriously?

Mad Dog Madsen

8/4/2010, 04:53 PM

I negged you to death?...seriously?

Yeah man just about... I'll never disagree with you again. :D

stoops the eternal pimp

8/4/2010, 04:55 PM

man..you must have been an idiot!:D :D :D :eek: :D

Mad Dog Madsen

8/4/2010, 04:56 PM

Hahaha... yes indeed!

Leroy Lizard

8/4/2010, 04:58 PM

Most of the high schools and colleges here in the Miss./Alabama area have started training camp now, but I can't imagine what it must be like. Even more than the high-90s heat, the humidity is off the chart. I just walked out to my car and back, and that short jaunt left me soaking like I'd just run a couple of miles.

I wonder if the large girths of our players today are having an effect. The heat has been around forever, but in the past players were more slim and trim.

soonerboy_odanorth

8/5/2010, 01:05 AM

I wonder if the large girths of our players today are having an effect. The heat has been around forever, but in the past players were more slim and trim.

In the past, players were handed fist-fulls of salt tablets and told to suck them down because they would keep them hydrated in the face of such forever heat so they wouldn't DIE during three-a-days. (That's right... 3... not 2....)

What is your point?

Leroy Lizard

8/5/2010, 01:53 AM

What is your point?

I, uhh, asked a question.

the_ouskull

8/5/2010, 05:57 PM

Exactly how does one go about screaming a punt? If it's a 40-yard punt, it's a 40-yard punt, no matter who kicked it.

Disagree. Respectively, of course.

The Saints used to have a punter that, I swear, every time he put boot to the ball, you thought it was going to hit orbit. (I was a little kid at the time, bear with me on the hazy memories..) Then, turns out, he kicked a perfect spiral too... but they usually only went about 20-30 yards. Now, if you leveled them out, he'd have kicked it out of the stadium... even at the Superdome...

(That one can go either way even. I could be like, "get it, 'cause it's a dome," or "get it, 'cause there's holes in the roof," but there aren't still holes in the roof. It just smells like it. That's Nawlins!)

Anyway, that's what a screaming punt is, to me, anyway, but I openly admit to being a pretty f'ed up dude...

the_ouskull

Leroy Lizard

8/5/2010, 06:32 PM

Disagree. Respectively, of course.

The Saints used to have a punter that, I swear, every time he put boot to the ball, you thought it was going to hit orbit. (I was a little kid at the time, bear with me on the hazy memories..) Then, turns out, he kicked a perfect spiral too... but they usually only went about 20-30 yards. Now, if you leveled them out, he'd have kicked it out of the stadium... even at the Superdome...

(That one can go either way even. I could be like, "get it, 'cause it's a dome," or "get it, 'cause there's holes in the roof," but there aren't still holes in the roof. It just smells like it. That's Nawlins!)

Anyway, that's what a screaming punt is, to me, anyway, but I openly admit to being a pretty f'ed up dude...

the_ouskull

I think the implication was that pro punters kick punts that are scary to catch. Nonsense.