Dear Anti-Child Immunizers and other tinfoil hat wearers...Part Deux

[achiro]

I am not getting into a pissing match with anyone on this. I've stated before that I am still really up in the air as to what the cause is but when I see stats like 1 in 60 boys are autistic, I know it's much more than current diagnostic tools. Anyway, I saw this article today on research out of U of Pitt School Of Med and thought I'd post it. A link to the study itself is at the bottom. Have fun taking it apart.


July 15, 2010
New Study Shows Vaccines Cause Brain Changes Found in Autism

PET-1 By Dan Olmsted and Mark Blaxill

Abnormal brain growth and function are features of autism, an increasingly common developmental disorder that now affects 1 in 60 boys in the US. Now researchers from the University of Pittsburgh and Thoughtful House Center for Children in Austin, Texas, have found remarkably similar brain changes to those seen in autism in infant monkeys receiving the vaccine schedule used in the 1990’s that contained the mercury-based preservative thimerosal.

The group’s findings were published yesterday in the journal Acta Neurobiologiae Experimentalis. They used scanning techniques that assessed both brain growth and brain function in the same animals over time. The research team was able to see differences in the way the brains of vaccinated and unvaccinated animals developed. Scans were performed before and after the administration of primary MMR and DTaP/Hib boosters that were given at the human equivalent of 12 months of age.

Throughout the study period, vaccinated animals showed an increase in total brain volume – a feature of the brain in many young children with autism - when compared with unvaccinated animals. However, a specific part of the brain associated with emotional responses that is thought to be important in autism, the amygdala, did not show abnormalities until after the 12-month vaccines had been given. In addition, after the 12-month vaccines only, the functional brain scans showed significant differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated groups. These functional scans looked at the activity of receptors for morphine-like compounds (opioids) that may play a role in the brain of children affected by autism. Vaccine administration was associated with an increase in opioid binding activity in the amygdala compared with a decrease in the unvaccinated group.

The results indicate that multiple vaccine exposures during the previous 3-4 months may have had a significant impact on brain growth and development in ways that are consistent with the published data on autism. For the amygdala, the novel findings of abnormal growth and function appear to be a function of more recent vaccine exposures - the 12-month primary MMR vaccine and the DTaP and Hib boosters.

In an accompanying editorial Dr. Kris Turlejski, the Editor-in-Chief, described the findings as “alarming”, “support[ing] the possibility that there is a link between early immunization and the etiology of autism.”

In the same primate model, the research team has already identified delayed acquisition of vital brainstem reflexes in infants exposed to the thimerosal-containing hepatitis B vaccine on the first day of life, compared with unvaccinated animals. A larger, second phase study is currently underway to see if these findings can be replicated.

Dr. Andrew Wakefield, who is not a listed author but whose support in the design of the study is acknowledged, said “I hope the model will not only provide important insights into the origins of autism, but also ways of safely testing possible new autism treatments and vaccines.”

References:
Laura Hewitson, Brian J. Lopresti, Carol Stott, N. Scott Mason, and Jaime Tomko. Influence of pediatric vaccines on amygdala growth and opioid ligand binding in rhesus macaque infants: A pilot study. Acta Neurobiol Exp 2010. 70: 147–164

Kris Turlejski. Focus on Autism Editorial Comment Acta Neurobiol Exp 2010. 70: 117–118

Link: http://www.ane.pl/pdf/7020.pdf

[picasso]

Hey man, isn't the spike in cases really a result of the disease being painted with a broader brush these days?

[GottaHavePride]

I have to say, I don't know any neuropathologists but as far as I'm aware, a diagnosis of autism isn't linked to any genetic or blood tests, MRI scans, etc. Autism is still diagnosed by a developmental psychologist examining a child based on a checklist of usual indicators.

Then there are a few other factors: doctors recommend screening ALL children for autism now, not just checking a child if they show signs of abnormality. Also, a lot wider range of mental disorders are now being classified as forms of autism. Add that to the fact that there's less of a stigma attached to these diagnoses than there was in the past, meaning 50 years ago a doctor wouldn't label someone autistic unless they were very noticeable impaired - now a kid even slightly off will get tagged as mildly autistic.

So what I'm getting at is that I think the 1 in 60 number is inflated by including a lot of people who probably aren't noticeably autistic and probably wouldn't have been diagnosed as autistic even a few decades ago.

Also, thimerosal - the vaccine preservative mentioned in that article - is already being phased out in the US.



EDIT - picasso just said that a LOT faster.

[OUthunder]

My SIL thinks that all immunizations are the devil. She even home schools her kids so they can't get sick and experience life. Shrek is to risk-K for her 8 year old.

I hate the bitch!

[yermom]

My SIL thinks that all immunizations are the devil. She even home schools her kids so they can't get sick and experience life. Shrek is to risk-K for her 8 year old.

I hate the bitch!

prepare for your negging ;)

flat out not getting vaccines seems pretty dumb, but research on this sort of thing kinda has to happen

any process can be improved

[OUthunder]

prepare for your negging ;)

flat out not getting vaccines seems pretty dumb, but research on this sort of thing kinda has to happen

any process can be improved

Oh, I agree on that yermom. The point that I was trying to make is that some take it to extremes. I figure the main reason she home schools is because no school will take her kids without an up to date vaccination record.

[Okla-homey]

I have to say, I don't know any neuropathologists but as far as I'm aware, a diagnosis of autism isn't linked to any genetic or blood tests, MRI scans, etc. Autism is still diagnosed by a developmental psychologist examining a child based on a checklist of usual indicators.

It's called a "differential diagnosis". Put another way, after you rule everything else out, you can hang that label on it.

Then there are a few other factors: doctors recommend screening ALL
So what I'm getting at is that I think the 1 in 60 number is inflated by including a lot of people who probably aren't noticeably autistic and probably wouldn't have been diagnosed as autistic even a few decades ago.

Yep. And this is the part no one likes to talk about because it isn't PC, some kids are just messed up, developmentally retarded, or have some other congenital defect. It makes some parents feel better to have a "disease" or "condition" to call it instead of admitting their kid is mentally retarded. That's NOT to say there are kids who are profoundly autistic and will need special accomodation for the rest of their lives, but I feel autism is waaaay over diagnosed nowadays. I myself could probably be diagnosed with "Asburgers Syndrome," or WTF they call it, because I'm an a-hole, awkward in social situations, and I'm okay with it.

Also, thimerosal - the vaccine preservative mentioned in that article - is already being phased out in the US.

"zackly!


EDIT - picasso just said that a LOT faster.

And a pox on the a-holes who published this drivel because we already have way too many whack-job mommies who are eschewing childhood vaccination becaue of this bullsh1t!

[fadada1]

home-schooling is a social experiment that should be banned faster than a sooner ticking of longhorngirlie on hornfans.

if i had kids, i rather pump them full of every mercury/lead based immunization on the planet then have them home-schooled. autistic kids have more social skills than home-schooled kids... no offense to autistic kids.

end of brief rant.

[Leroy Lizard]

home-schooling is like a social experiment that should be banned faster than a sooner ticking of longhorngirlie on hornfans.

Those who homeschool consider public schools akin to Babylon. Unfortunately, they may be right. It's pretty sick out there.

My kids went to Christian schools and it wasn't nearly as bad. (Although we had some dumbass parents who dumped their vermin off at the Christian school too.) For someone of little income, what are the alternatives? Turn your kid over to a drug-infested sin dump, or teach them at home?

[Okla-homey]

Those who homeschool consider public schools akin to Babylon. Unfortunately, they may be right. It's pretty sick out there.

My kids went to Christian schools and it wasn't nearly as bad. (Although we had some dumbass parents who dumped their vermin off at the Christian school too.) For someone of little income, what are the alternatives? Turn your kid over to a drug-infested sin dump, or teach them at home?

I think most people can afford private school if they're willing to re-asses their priorities.

[Leroy Lizard]

I think most people can afford private school if they're willing to re-asses their priorities.

It's pretty expensive if you have two or three children.

[Okla-homey]

It's pretty expensive if you have two or three children.

We know what causes children. People shouldn't have more than they can support. But that's a whole other rant.

[Leroy Lizard]

We know what causes children. People shouldn't have more than they can support. But that's a whole other rant.

Maybe, but it's not like they have eight kids and are going on welfare.

[Ike]

So a few things...

A) Since thimerosal is being phased out, or has already been phased out, have diagnoses of autism declined? If not, why bother running this particular study? If so, then this study is important supporting evidence of the theory that thimerosal has some effect w.r.t. autism. If that's not the case, then it's something else in the vaccine (if it's the vaccines that have something to do with autism at all), and it would be far more illuminating to look at vaccines as they are given TODAY....you can either connect thimerosal with autism or the vaccines themselves with autism in one study, BUT NOT BOTH. So more information would be needed.

b) The article makes specific mention of:

In an accompanying editorial Dr. Kris Turlejski, the Editor-in-Chief, described the findings as “alarming”, “support[ing] the possibility that there is a link between early immunization and the etiology of autism.”

The EARLY part there is pretty important. If there is some connection between vaccines and autism, maybe it might be wise to see if there is a safe way of pushing the schedule back so that everyone gets vaccinated, but maybe gets less exposure. IMO, the authors of this study, knowing that this study is likely to make some people go all hysterical, should forthwith apply for funding to do the same study a) with todays vaccines and b) with a number of different vaccination schedules. Perhaps they can actually fulfill their obligation to the hippocratic oath in that manner.

[achiro]

And a pox on the a-holes who published this drivel because we already have way too many whack-job mommies who are eschewing childhood vaccination becaue of this bullsh1t!

Yeah 'cause all research that doesn't fit into your agenda should be stopped immediately. :rolleyes: Stop being a moron.

[achiro]

So a few things...

A) Since thimerosal is being phased out, or has already been phased out, have diagnoses of autism declined? If not, why bother running this particular study? If so, then this study is important supporting evidence of the theory that thimerosal has some effect w.r.t. autism. If that's not the case, then it's something else in the vaccine (if it's the vaccines that have something to do with autism at all), and it would be far more illuminating to look at vaccines as they are given TODAY....you can either connect thimerosal with autism or the vaccines themselves with autism in one study, BUT NOT BOTH. So more information would be needed.

b) The article makes specific mention of:
The EARLY part there is pretty important. If there is some connection between vaccines and autism, maybe it might be wise to see if there is a safe way of pushing the schedule back so that everyone gets vaccinated, but maybe gets less exposure. IMO, the authors of this study, knowing that this study is likely to make some people go all hysterical, should forthwith apply for funding to do the same study a) with todays vaccines and b) with a number of different vaccination schedules. Perhaps they can actually fulfill their obligation to the hippocratic oath in that manner.
I agree with a lot of what you've said Ike but a few things. There are still a few vaccines that contain Thimerosal but most of those are things like the flu vaccine intended for older kids or adults.
I'm not real sure why they chose to do the study in this manner but remember there are still lots of questions remaining in regards to the safety of thimerosal and the kids that were exposed through early vaccines.
It did also say it was a pilot and there are several directions that they can go.

In regards to the early stuff you mentioned. There are many parents and doctors that aren't "anti-vaccine" just want to wait until the child is older before many of them are given.

I do want to mention that I've seen little blurbs here and there for years that compare the Amish communities that don't vaccinate and their autism rates compared to the "normal" population. I've heard back and forths as to why folks on each side feel like those stats are valid or not.
A pretty simple study to me would be to just compare the autism rates in vaccinated v. unvaccinated children. There are certainly large enough numbers these days of the unvaccinated kids to get some valid numbers and would eliminate one of the big amish arguments in that their diets aren't the same, they don't watch tv, etc, etc. As simple as that seems, if it has ever been done I haven't seen it.

To GHP, I agree to an extent with you on a much more open ended aspect to the autism diagnosis. BUt just look at your local elementary schools. There is no way that you can look at the number of special needs kids from 30 years ago and not see a huge increase in the numbers today. The numbers of children that absolutely could not function in a regular classroom I mean. These are not kids that could have snuck through at any point regardless of diagnostic techniques.

[GottaHavePride]

Hmmm, interesting using the Amish as a sort of control group. My concern would be is the Amish population genetically diverse enough to represent the entire population's response? Because I'm thinking that the Amish communities are probably fairly seriously inbred by now (much like European royalty) just because I doubt there are a significant number of people not born Amish willing to take up that lifestyle.

And as to the special needs kids - I agree to a point. But also, could that not be related to the medical community's increasing skill in caring for those kids? I think a few decades ago probably a lot of them would not have survived long enough to make it into the school system.

[Ike]

I do want to mention that I've seen little blurbs here and there for years that compare the Amish communities that don't vaccinate and their autism rates compared to the "normal" population. I've heard back and forths as to why folks on each side feel like those stats are valid or not.
A pretty simple study to me would be to just compare the autism rates in vaccinated v. unvaccinated children. There are certainly large enough numbers these days of the unvaccinated kids to get some valid numbers and would eliminate one of the big amish arguments in that their diets aren't the same, they don't watch tv, etc, etc. As simple as that seems, if it has ever been done I haven't seen it.



I agree that the Amish are not a great control sample there. Their lifestyle is so different from our own that there are too many potential variables that would be impossible to separate. Unvaccinated kids living in the modern world are a better control, but I would imagine for such a study, actually getting researchers in contact with unvaccinated children, or records of unvaccinated children that have not been cherry-picked would be difficult. You'd basically have to get a fairly large number of pediatricians to ask parents who aren't vaccinating at their first visit to join onto a study (I think).

[Collier11]

prepare for your negging ;)

flat out not getting vaccines seems pretty dumb, but research on this sort of thing kinda has to happen

any process can be improved

Some vaccines are needed and some arent IMO. I also think parents are idiots who are afraid to expose their kids to germs but I dont have any problem with parents who dont want their kids getting every single shot, they arent all needed

[Pricetag]

To GHP, I agree to an extent with you on a much more open ended aspect to the autism diagnosis. BUt just look at your local elementary schools. There is no way that you can look at the number of special needs kids from 30 years ago and not see a huge increase in the numbers today. The numbers of children that absolutely could not function in a regular classroom I mean. These are not kids that could have snuck through at any point regardless of diagnostic techniques.
Part of the increase has to be that those kids would have been in special schools or not in schools at all back then.

[Okla-homey]

Maybe, but it's not like they have eight kids and are going on welfare.

How so? I see no difference at all. In both cases, those parents lack the means to adequately provide for their children.

[Okla-homey]

Yeah 'cause all research that doesn't fit into your agenda should be stopped immediately. :rolleyes: Stop being a moron.

The only morons in this little drama are the idiots who don't vaccinate their kids. I'm looking forward to the day we have laws that parents who blow off childhood immunizations are subject to tort liability.

[Jacie]

. . .would eliminate one of the big amish arguments in that their diets aren't the same, they don't watch tv, etc, etc. As simple as that seems, if it has ever been done I haven't seen it.


Until I moved to my present locale, the closest I had come to seeing any Amish were some Mennonites who have a church just north of OKC. As near as I can tell, they are a watered-down version of Amish, nothing like the horse and buggy crowd up here. The Amish in this part of the world moved here from Pennsylvania about 20 years ago, presumably because their community was getting too modern and they wanted to preserve the old ways.

Anyway, talking about Amish diet and television watching, I have some observations personal and anecdotal.

First, I have seen Amish dining at fast food places. Maybe they get tired of homegrown meals 7 day a week, eh?

One of the local Walmarts here gets so much Amish business, it has a hitching rail for their horses.

Then there was the day I stopped for gas and in the convenience store was an Amish guy drinking soda and hanging out with a couple of the locals. It was a particularly hot day and the air conditioned store offered some relief from outside. I went back to my car and told my wife what I had seen and we laughed thinking that the Amish guy probably told his wife, stuck at their non-air conditioned Amish home in the country, that he was going to town for supplies or something.

As for television, I heard of this guy up here, kind of a holdout from the 70's, who lived in an old house amongst Amish farms. He never bothered with door locks out there. He would be in his livingroom and sometimes see his neighbors, the men that is, on his porch looking in at him. Once he was gone for a few days and came home to find a bunch of barefooted Amish men in his livingroom watching television and they had cleaned out the refrigerator.

So don't sell em short. The Amish live different from most of us but aren't above partaking of fast food, air conditioning, television and such. They're just a little sly about it.

[Jacie]

I'm looking forward to the day we have laws that parents who blow off childhood immunizations subject to tort liability.

THX1138, a Robert Duvall movie about a working stiff in the future whose wife wants a baby but gets turned down by the government. So she holds back some pills from his diet that keep him docile, he does her, she gets knocked up, and here comes Big Brother after Robert aka THX-1138 for drug evasion . . .

[Harry Beanbag]

The only morons in this little drama are the idiots who don't vaccinate their kids. I'm looking forward to the day we have laws that parents who blow off childhood immunizations are subject to tort liability.


Says the big government conservative lawyer.

[Frozen Sooner]

The only morons in this little drama are the idiots who don't vaccinate their kids. I'm looking forward to the day we have laws that parents who blow off childhood immunizations are subject to tort liability.

That opens some public policy doors I don't think you're going to want opened.

[Ike]

That opens some public policy doors I don't think you're going to want opened.
Requiring people to buy a good or a service under penalty of law?


I heard that phrase somewhere else before...I just can't place it.

[Frozen Sooner]

Requiring people to buy a good or a service under penalty of law?


I heard that phrase somewhere else before...I just can't place it.

Er, no. That public policy door's been open since the second or third Congress.

I was talking about allowing tort liability for negligent parenting.

[Leroy Lizard]

How so? I see no difference at all. In both cases, those parents lack the means to adequately provide for their children.

Adequately provide, as in food and shelter, or attending a private school?

C'mon, Homey. You can't even believe that yourself.

[Leroy Lizard]

The only morons in this little drama are the idiots who don't vaccinate their kids. I'm looking forward to the day we have laws that parents who blow off childhood immunizations are subject to tort liability.

Yeah, but you favor any situation that pushes more money into lawyer's pockets.

[jkjsooner]

My problem with those who don't vaccinate is that they're putting the rest of teh population at risk. Children under 6 months of age can't be vaccinated and now you have to worry about all of the unvaccinated kids running around.

I don't think most of these mommies understand the concept of herd immunity nor do they feel a general sense of responsibility to society as a whole.

[Leroy Lizard]

My problem with those who don't vaccinate is that they're putting the rest of teh population at risk. Children under 6 months of age can't be vaccinated and now you have to worry about all of the unvaccinated kids running around.

At six months, it shouldn't be too hard to keep a baby away from unvaccinated kids.


I don't think most of these mommies understand the concept of herd immunity nor do they feel a general sense of responsibility to society as a whole.

They do. They just don't want to endanger their own kids' health. (I'm not saying they are right, but you have to understand their POV.)

[Fraggle145]

To GHP, I agree to an extent with you on a much more open ended aspect to the autism diagnosis. BUt just look at your local elementary schools. There is no way that you can look at the number of special needs kids from 30 years ago and not see a huge increase in the numbers today. The numbers of children that absolutely could not function in a regular classroom I mean. These are not kids that could have snuck through at any point regardless of diagnostic techniques.

Something else to think about is how much has elementary school education changed. There have been studies showing biases against teaching little boys. Boys and girls simply dont act the same and expecting little girls vs little boys to sit still, play the same, etc... just isnt feasible. Just saying its something else to think about.

[Okla-homey]

Yeah, but you favor any situation that pushes more money into lawyer's pockets.

No. Just gay divorce. Because that will be a flippin' goldmine, now untapped.

[badger]

Vaccinations at an early age made my older brother scared of needles for life. The little sister (baj takes a bow) had to even bait the fish hook while the older brother held the fishing pole... then proceeded to move the pole, causing the fish hook to go through baj's thumb. Baj, being a 5-year-old drama queen, howling all the way back to the house to let parents know that older brother did something wrong :D

Childhood memory aside, I wonder if the administration process isn't behind the vaccination problems. Perhaps administering them with a patch or a nostril squirt or alternative to a needle would help alleviate some parental fears... not to mention a child's lifelong fear of needles.