Professional Discussion

[Sooner in Tampa]

I am currently employed by a Fortune 500 company as a govt contractor...the company is having a real bad run of bad luck here in the MacDill area. The current contract that I am employed under expires early next year.

So, most of us have been putting out feelers for other jobs. As of now, everybody still has feelers out, and nobody has jumped ship. I recieved a phone call last Friday night from the CEO of a small company, who is the sub with some jobs available. I sent my resume to him on Friday night...Sat, we traded a good many emails working through some of the details. I have not officially been offered a job, I have been "nominated"...the government has to approve my resume for a "senior" level position.

Bottom line here is this: I have an immense amount of guilt for thinking about jumping ship so early. I have only had two "real" jobs my entire life...The Marine Corps and my current position. The company that I am working for now keeps telling us that they will "take care of us", but that is really starting to look like re-location would be required. I cannot really relocate at this time in my life, I have two daughters in college (don't want to pay out of state tution) and one getting ready to start HS, we have 10 yrs invested in this community (the most time in my adult life), and we really do love where we live.

The new job is a promotion into management, but with a much smaller company...the contract is good for 5 yrs...and it's a pay raise.

Soooooooo, why do I feel so slimey?

[GKeeper316]

your current company has been good to you. unless they can match the offer, they really can't deny you the opportunity, or hold it against you for taking it.

nothing to feel slimey about here.

[reevie]

Welcome to life as an A&AS contractor. I understand your loyalty to your company, but you have to protect yourself and your family. That means you'll be bouncing between companies to ensure you've got a job with a contract. You don't need to feel slimey about it. That's just the nature of the business and I think everyone understands that you have find as much job security as you can.

Is MacDill in-sourcing the contractors like we're seeing across the country? If so, you could look at trying to snag a government job.

[Sooner in Tampa]

If so, you could look at trying to snag a government job.

There are two issues with a government job nowadays; first, you practically have to blow somebody to get in the door now...or go in at such a low level that it is a HUGE pay cut...second, the pay just can't compare to the contractor level right now...especially in the jobs with high clearances.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Just don't put on an hour-long TV show to announce your decision to jump ship.

[Frozen Sooner]

I don't know that the out of state tuition deal is a concern. Once a student's residency status is in state, I don't think they take that away.

[Sooner in Tampa]

I don't know that the out of state tuition deal is a concern. Once a student's residency status is in state, I don't think they take that away.

It's our understanding that if you move to a new state, most colleges want the residency to be one year...then after one year, you get in-state rates

[sooner_born_1960]

I think Mike was suggesting the girls stay in school where they are. You move.

[yermom]

yeah, that's what i was assuming. once you are enrolled, do they check your parents' address?

i remember listing a "permanent address" but i never changed that until i bought a house...

[Sooner in Tampa]

I think Mike was suggesting the girls stay in school where they are. You move.

Ummm...yeah...ain't gonna happen...I am not ready to do that yet :O

[Frozen Sooner]

I think Mike was suggesting the girls stay in school where they are. You move.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at.

[C&CDean]

Ummm...yeah...ain't gonna happen...I am not ready to do that yet :O

I guess having girls is different. When my boys hit 18 - boom!, out the ****ing door with you. Wanna go to school? Good, get a job and some schollies, or join the military. If I had daughters it might be different, I don't know.

[Frozen Sooner]

I guess having girls is different. When my boys hit 18 - boom!, out the ****ing door with you. Wanna go to school? Good, get a job and some schollies, or join the military. If I had daughters it might be different, I don't know.

Heh. I remember telling my parents that I was thinking of taking a year between high school and college.

I was pretty much told they didn't care one way or another, since they weren't paying for either one.

[C&CDean]

You had good folks Mikey.

[Frozen Sooner]

Yeah, I like them.

[Sooner in Tampa]

I guess having girls is different. When my boys hit 18 - boom!, out the ****ing door with you. Wanna go to school? Good, get a job and some schollies, or join the military. If I had daughters it might be different, I don't know.

I am completely on board with this Dean...but, I do think girls are different than boys. I don't know that I would feel any different about moving away and leaving them though. I know there is the possiblity that one day they may not live in the same town/area as the wife and I...but that will be a sad day to me.

I also think there is a difference than them moving away...or the wife, the two younger daughters, and I packing up and heading down the road...leaving them here

The girls both still live at home and attend college full time and work jobs. It doesn't make any sense to the wife and I for them to pay $800 a month to live in the dorms 30 minutes from home...that's just plain throwing money away in our opinion.

[NormanPride]

I've been working as a consultant for almost six years. The company won't GAS if you leave. Your coworkers will miss you, but they shouldn't hate you for it. If they've been in the business long enough they know the ropes. You look out for #1.

[delhalew]

Five year contract vs five months...plus a raise. I don't think you should feel bad for securing the most security you can get for your family. Besides, I don't know your industry, but that is often the life of a contractor. If you were to go direct with a company, maybe that would be different, but family would still take priority over any company.

[Okla-homey]

At times like this, its important to realize this company is not the United States Marine Corps. Far from it. In my experience, defense contractors (a/k/a "beltway bandits") demonstrate no loyalty to their employees, and would kick you to the curb in a heartbeat if it decided it was in its best interest to do so. Therefore, you shouldn't feel any guilt or shame in doing what's best for you and yours at this time.

You put "service above self" while in uniform. That chapter of your life is over.

[reevie]

There are two issues with a government job nowadays; first, you practically have to blow somebody to get in the door now...or go in at such a low level that it is a HUGE pay cut...second, the pay just can't compare to the contractor level right now...especially in the jobs with high clearances.



Obama is expanding the government and we're hiring right and left. I don't know what the situation is at MacDill, but we are able to make the case to bring people in at a higher grade and step. You may be surprised what they can do for you right now.

[GottaHavePride]

I am completely on board with this Dean...but, I do think girls are different than boys. I don't know that I would feel any different about moving away and leaving them though. I know there is the possiblity that one day they may not live in the same town/area as the wife and I...but that will be a sad day to me.

I also think there is a difference than them moving away...or the wife, the two younger daughters, and I packing up and heading down the road...leaving them here

The girls both still live at home and attend college full time and work jobs. It doesn't make any sense to the wife and I for them to pay $800 a month to live in the dorms 30 minutes from home...that's just plain throwing money away in our opinion.

A few thoughts:

First, how long have the girls been in college? Because only a limited number of hours would transfer to a new institution if you took them with you. So you have to weigh the costs of them having to re-take a lot of classes in the decision. Plus, they've made friends and connections where they are.

From what I've seen, depending on the college, if you come in as an out-of-state student it is VERY difficult to convince them to give you in-state tuition, even if you move the whole family there.

Again: why make them move into the dorms if you move away? Is your current house payment unreasonable for them to get part time jobs and split if you moved away?


Finally, if the other company is offering more stability and a raise I'd jump in a second.

And post-finally, personally I'd be thinking about moving the two girls out into an apartment on their own anyway. They're in college, they need to learn how to deal with the real world without their parents doing everything for them. And I don't just mean around the house stuff, I mean they need to get used to calling the cable company themselves when their cable goes out, that sort of thing. ;)

[Sooner in Tampa]

At times like this, its important to realize this company is not the United States Marine Corps. Far from it. In my experience, defense contractors (a/k/a "beltway bandits") demonstrate no loyalty to their employees, and would kick you to the curb in a heartbeat if it decided it was in its best interest to do so. Therefore, you shouldn't feel any guilt or shame in doing what's best for you and yours at this time.

You put "service above self" while in uniform. That chapter of your life is over.

Sage advice homey...Thank You

[Sooner in Tampa]

Obama is expanding the government and we're hiring right and left. I don't know what the situation is at MacDill, but we are able to make the case to bring people in at a higher grade and step. You may be surprised what they can do for you right now.
Yeah...we see it...The problem with MacDill...at least in USCENTCOM, EVERYBODY that retires is a LtCol or above. I am a retired GySgt...guess who gets hired ? It's a very target rich environment for retirees to pick and choose their jobs.
The general practice is when one of the perspective service members is getting ready to retire, they do up a resume...usually a job description is written up or adjusted to ensure that certain individual gets the job. It is the good ole boy network x 10.

[sooner n houston]

At times like this, its important to realize this company is not the United States Marine Corps. Far from it. In my experience, defense contractors (a/k/a "beltway bandits") demonstrate no loyalty to their employees, and would kick you to the curb in a heartbeat if it decided it was in its best interest to do so. Therefore, you shouldn't feel any guilt or shame in doing what's best for you and yours at this time.

You put "service above self" while in uniform. That chapter of your life is over.

This exactly!

I have over 20 years as a contractor, government and otherwise. They will kick you to the curb as soon as it is beneficial to them. Take care of you and yours!

[Sooner in Tampa]

Thanks for the advice from all...I have to come to the conclusion that IF the company offers me a gig and I we can come to terms with salary and benefits...I will jump ship.

Thanks again.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Here is the deal...I recieved the first offer letter today...$8k pay increase, BUT, I lose the Employee Stock Purchase Program (15% discount on company stock), the 401K match (maybe available in the future), and I lose a weeks vacation.

So I countered with a request for $15k pay increase.

Unreasonable?

[yermom]

i'd see about the vacation. it seemed pretty easy to talk that up the last time i was negotiating...

[Jello Biafra]

Here is the deal...I recieved the first offer letter today...$8k pay increase, BUT, I lose the Employee Stock Purchase Program (15% discount on company stock), the 401K match (maybe available in the future), and I lose a weeks vacation.

So I countered with a request for $15k pay increase.

Unreasonable?

i wouldn't say it is. get it while you can. at least for the forseeable future, contractors are being cut left and right here in OKC. two companies are leaving base as we speak.

[Leroy Lizard]

Extended vacations are not much of a perk if the issue is money. Bargain for more pay or better retirement plans. Screw the vacation time.

[yermom]

my last job wasn't too flexible on salary, but vacation time didn't seem to be a problem

i got an extra week out of them, but i got the feeling i could have gotten 3

an extra week is something like 2%

[soonerboomer93]

A few thoughts:

First, how long have the girls been in college? Because only a limited number of hours would transfer to a new institution if you took them with you. So you have to weigh the costs of them having to re-take a lot of classes in the decision. Plus, they've made friends and connections where they are.

From what I've seen, depending on the college, if you come in as an out-of-state student it is VERY difficult to convince them to give you in-state tuition, even if you move the whole family there.

Again: why make them move into the dorms if you move away? Is your current house payment unreasonable for them to get part time jobs and split if you moved away?


Finally, if the other company is offering more stability and a raise I'd jump in a second.

And post-finally, personally I'd be thinking about moving the two girls out into an apartment on their own anyway. They're in college, they need to learn how to deal with the real world without their parents doing everything for them. And I don't just mean around the house stuff, I mean they need to get used to calling the cable company themselves when their cable goes out, that sort of thing. ;)

You forgot the obligatory: post-post finally, are they hawt?
;)


I would take the offer, try for the extra week of vacation time, calculate up your 401k difference and the stock purchase program. I'm assuming you participate in both and then figure out how much the value is each year. You can look at last years 401k statement for the company's share. You'll also have to look at how much of what they've matched is actually vested, as I know some places they match, but it doesn't become fully vested right away.

However, as others have said, do what makes you and your family happy.

[Sooner in Tampa]

I would take the offer, try for the extra week of vacation time, calculate up your 401k difference and the stock purchase program. I'm assuming you participate in both and then figure out how much the value is each year. You can look at last years 401k statement for the company's share. You'll also have to look at how much of what they've matched is actually vested, as I know some places they match, but it doesn't become fully vested right away.

However, as others have said, do what makes you and your family happy.

The 401K match is about a 3K loss...I have figured that in...and I am completely vested. After 3 yrs you are totally vested, so I am going to keep it all.

I have swapped a couple of more emails with the CEO and he has taken my counter offer into consideration, and he will let me know before the weekend. In his words, it's almost a done deal, but we have to finish a couple of the final details. Worse case scenario, I lose my current 401K structure, lose a weeks worth of vacation for two yrs...but I get a 10K pay raise...and a management position with 5 yrs of stability...after that :confused:


I REALLY just want this to be over with...it is NOT fun!!!

[SoonerJack]

This exactly!

I have over 20 years as a contractor, government and otherwise. They will kick you to the curb as soon as it is beneficial to them. Take care of you and yours!

Reminds me of that line in Oh Brother, Where Art Thou, "Sorry Delbert, they got this depression going on. I gots to take care of me and mine!"