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JLEW1818
7/11/2010, 04:01 PM
:pop:


with Torres being ZERO factor.

PDXsooner
7/11/2010, 07:07 PM
Great world cup...hell of an effort from the Dutch. I thought they were gonna score a couple of times, but great plays by both goalies. Spain is a deserving champion.

yermom
7/11/2010, 07:10 PM
i barely give a crap about soccer but all the drama with the refs and the stupid crowd and their noisemakers aren't exactly making me a believer

once the US was out, apathy pretty much took over

silverwheels
7/11/2010, 07:15 PM
:pop:


with Torres being ZERO factor.

And? The guy had knee surgery 2 months before the tournament and it wasn't even sure whether he would play or not, and it was definitely sure that he wasn't going to be 100% if he was going to play.


Great world cup...hell of an effort from the Dutch. I thought they were gonna score a couple of times, but great plays by both goalies. Spain is a deserving champion.

I thought it was the worst World Cup since 1990 entertainment-wise. I mean, I still enjoyed it, but it wasn't the best tournament to watch, especially for people who are either non-fans or on the fence.


i barely give a crap about soccer but all the drama with the refs and the stupid crowd and their noisemakers aren't exactly making me a believer

once the US was out, apathy pretty much took over

Okay...?

yermom
7/11/2010, 07:17 PM
just crapping on soccer while i can, since no one will be talking about it in the US for another 4 years :D

silverwheels
7/11/2010, 07:20 PM
We'll see. It's gaining ground in popularity, and our national team and program continue to make strides (which will be amplified if Jurgen Klinsmann is named the next head coach). We have the physical talent; it's just the development that is lacking. Will it ever be as big as football, basketball, or baseball? Probably not, but it doesn't have to be.

JLEW1818
7/11/2010, 09:04 PM
And? The guy had knee surgery 2 months before the tournament and it wasn't even sure whether he would play or not, and it was definitely sure that he wasn't going to be 100% if he was going to play.



I thought it was the worst World Cup since 1990 entertainment-wise. I mean, I still enjoyed it, but it wasn't the best tournament to watch, especially for people who are either non-fans or on the fence.



Okay...?



naw, I'm saying very impressive what they did without him

silverwheels
7/11/2010, 09:15 PM
naw, I'm saying very impressive what they did without him

It's not like David Villa is a chump. He also led Euro 2008 in scoring and is on his way to Barcelona next season. Spain can win without Torres being fully fit.

JLEW1818
7/11/2010, 09:24 PM
take away every teams starting striker and see if they can win the world cup.

yah, Spain is loaded, but still.

silverwheels
7/11/2010, 09:29 PM
Torres is only one of Spain's 2 starting strikers. Villa does work by himself.

tommieharris91
7/11/2010, 09:42 PM
take away every teams starting striker and see if they can win the world cup.

yah, Spain is loaded, but still.

Yea, Spain is good, but it's not like they're replacing Charlie Davies with Robbie Findley. Pedro was a big find at Barcelona last season and Navas isn't bad either. It's also not like they don't have the top 2 midfielders in the world in Xavi and Iniesta, either. Just look at how often Messi scored in this WC compared to La Liga.

Curly Bill
7/11/2010, 10:40 PM
I actually started watching once the US was sent out. To me that meant the real soccer teams were front and center.

JLEW1818
7/11/2010, 10:49 PM
communist

Curly Bill
7/11/2010, 10:52 PM
Communist?

For recognizing that the world's best soccer is most definitely NOT played in the USA?

I like it like that. I hope we suck at soccer forever.

JLEW1818
7/11/2010, 10:56 PM
atheist

Curly Bill
7/11/2010, 10:59 PM
I think disliking soccer actually makes me more of a patriotic God-loving Christian. :D

Collier11
7/11/2010, 11:55 PM
We'll see. It's gaining ground in popularity

Im not dogging you but no it isnt really, no one will care like he said for 4 years

and our national team and program continue to make strides


Not really, everyone involved said this was a big disappointment to not make it to the quarters, perhaps expectations have risen but we arent any better

We have the physical talent; it's just the development that is lacking.
.

Do we? WE dont have one superstar soccer player other than Lando and even he isnt a physical freak

Again, Im not at all trying to put down a sport that you enjoy, im just saying that things really havent gotten any better other than the expectations. We need to consistently make the quarters or semis for us to be a legit soccer country. Even then, I doubt the popularity will ever be there other than for the WC. Do you?

Collier11
7/11/2010, 11:56 PM
Communist?

For recognizing that the world's best soccer is most definitely NOT played in the USA?

I like it like that. I hope we suck at soccer forever.

Depends on what your definition of good is, we are def one of the top 12-16 teams in the world which is impressive for the U.S., having said that, I dont think we are anywhere near the Top 6-8

Curly Bill
7/12/2010, 12:12 AM
Depends on what your definition of good is, we are def one of the top 12-16 teams in the world which is impressive for the U.S., having said that, I dont think we are anywhere near the Top 6-8

Exactly, the leap from the USA to teams like Spain, Germany, Brazil seems to be pretty huge. Not saying that we can't ever so often shock one of those teams, but watching them play, and admittedly I'm no soccer expert, but watching them play is like watching an entirely different level of the sport.

We're like Norman High School compared to their OU. :D

Collier11
7/12/2010, 12:17 AM
Cmon now, we are atleast Norman North :D

Curly Bill
7/12/2010, 12:20 AM
Since I'm down here in Tejas I'm not real familiar with the caliber of the Norman schools, so if ya wanna say Norman North that's fine by me, but you get my point. :D

Collier11
7/12/2010, 12:23 AM
Well, anymore Norman is like osu and Norman North is like OU :D

Curly Bill
7/12/2010, 12:25 AM
Long as all that adds up to USA soccer not being in the upper echelons of international soccer! :D

Collier11
7/12/2010, 12:32 AM
I think 2014 will tell us, I really think we will be alot better in 4 years. We just gotta see if we will produce then

silverwheels
7/12/2010, 12:33 AM
Do we? WE dont have one superstar soccer player other than Lando and even he isnt a physical freak

Again, Im not at all trying to put down a sport that you enjoy, im just saying that things really havent gotten any better other than the expectations. We need to consistently make the quarters or semis for us to be a legit soccer country. Even then, I doubt the popularity will ever be there other than for the WC. Do you?

Yes, it is gaining in popularity, which is why European leagues like the Premier League and La Liga are being shown here every weekend now, and why ESPN picked up the European Championships 2 years ago and they did fairly well considering it was another continent being featured. It's also why MLS is expanding to 20 teams. Again, I'm not saying that a massive leap in interest has occurred and is occurring. I'm saying that interest is growing slowly...but surely.

People were "disappointed" because the team has made strides in the past decade or so and that's why they expected better, and because people saw that Ghana was ranked below us in some stupid rankings and didn't bother to see that they were a bad matchup for us. Also, if the team hadn't improved at all over the years, the expectations wouldn't be so high.

As far as physical ability goes, yes, our soccer talent pool is as good as anyone else's. You're equating that to technical skill and popularity, and they're not all the same. Our players aren't developed as well as they are in the elite countries, which is why we're behind them. Physically, tell me Gooch or Jozy aren't good enough to play for anyone. It's their technical skill that is lacking, and if Klinsmann is hired, he will overhaul our youth development programs and at least point them in the right direction.

And I don't care if your intention is to put down soccer or not, your opinion makes it look like you barely follow the sport at all, so I will take my own word for it.

Curly Bill
7/12/2010, 12:35 AM
I think 2014 will tell us, I really think we will be alot better in 4 years. We just gotta see if we will produce then

I bet we're not appreciably better in 4 years.

It's still soccer, and we're still the USA, and no matter what the soccer sunshine pumpers keep telling us, it's just never ever really gonna take off in this country.

silverwheels
7/12/2010, 12:40 AM
I bet we're not appreciably better in 4 years.

It's still soccer, and we're still the USA, and no matter what the soccer sunshine pumpers keep telling us, it's just never ever really gonna take off in this country.

Based on what the roster might look like in 4 years, we may not be appreciably better, simply because we will have lost some key players to old age and retirement. But the talent pool as a whole is getting better.

And I personally am not saying that soccer is going to take off, and it doesn't have to. We can still be successful without the sport being #1 here. We just need to develop the young players better, which will happen at some point in the relatively near future.

Hate on soccer all you want, it's not going to change anything. And your trolling of soccer threads is getting old.

Collier11
7/12/2010, 12:41 AM
As far as physical ability goes, yes, our soccer talent pool is as good as anyone else's. You're equating that to technical skill and popularity, and they're not all the same. Our players aren't developed as well as they are in the elite countries, which is why we're behind them. Physically, tell me Gooch or Jozy aren't good enough to play for anyone. It's their technical skill that is lacking, and if Klinsmann is hired, he will overhaul our youth development programs and at least point them in the right direction.

Let me ask you this, I heard a discussion on the radio and they were basically saying that while our best Soccer players are good athletes, they are good athletes who are 5'9'', 5,10'', etc... while alot of the other GOOD countries have guys out there 6'1''-6'3'' who are just bigger and stronger. Those type of athletes for America are playing other sports and that is why we cant compete nationally, what do you say?

And I don't care if your intention is to put down soccer or not, your opinion makes it look like you barely follow the sport at all, so I will take my own word for it.

See, I ask simple questions, honest questions. You get offended or atleast you come off that way. I wouldnt have made it a point that I wasnt trying to put soccer down if I didnt mean it, I am just trying to discuss.

To answer your suggestion, I dont follow Euro Leagues, The Premier League, etc... I follow Team USA and the WC as a whole to a lesser extent. Do I know soccer like I know football, baseball, or basketball, nope, not even close.

I do know what I see though and what my buddies tell me who follow it alot more than I do and they have alot of the same opinions that I do.

Has Soccer grown in the USA in the last 20 years, sure, has popularity gone up alot, not really, it HAS gone up but I wouldnt say substantially. IS our Soccer program better off now than 20 years ago, absolutely. Are we ready to consistently compete on a world stage, still not close. Thats all im saying

tommieharris91
7/12/2010, 12:43 AM
Exactly, the leap from the USA to teams like Spain, Germany, Brazil seems to be pretty huge. Not saying that we can't ever so often shock one of those teams, but watching them play, and admittedly I'm no soccer expert, but watching them play is like watching an entirely different level of the sport.

We're like Norman High School compared to their OU. :D

Actually it's more like the USA is aggy and Spain is LSU. We'll beat the best every now and then (like in 2009 when we beat Spain) but we're not the best in the world and won't be until the thinking changes at just about every level, and until it does, we're "a team on the rise."

The US actually brought one of the more athletic teams to this World Cup (note the late chances and goals). However, soccer is rarely about who is more athletic. It's much more about who is the most skilled. Iniesta isn't a physical freak athlete. Neither is Wesley Sneidjer. Nor Xavi. They just have honed their skills throughout their lives. Until the coaches, from the youth clubs up, figure out what skills are needed most (specifically, touch and passing) we're gonna be stuck in World Cup QFs.

Collier11
7/12/2010, 12:44 AM
The bigger issue isnt athleticism, you are probably right Tommie. It seemed that our biggest issue this WC was missed opportunities and boneheaded mistakes/lapses in concentration which is why we fell behind so early and so often.

Curly Bill
7/12/2010, 12:49 AM
Based on what the roster might look like in 4 years, we may not be appreciably better, simply because we will have lost some key players to old age and retirement. But the talent pool as a whole is getting better.

And I personally am not saying that soccer is going to take off, and it doesn't have to. We can still be successful without the sport being #1 here. We just need to develop the young players better, which will happen at some point in the relatively near future.

Hate on soccer all you want, it's not going to change anything. And your trolling of soccer threads is getting old.

Ya see, here's where I don't care what you think. I largely post where I want to. I know you think yourself the soccer guru or something, and I guess you'd like me not to come in and muddy up the rug, but tough luck.

Curly Bill
7/12/2010, 12:49 AM
Based on what the roster might look like in 4 years, we may not be appreciably better, simply because we will have lost some key players to old age and retirement. But the talent pool as a whole is getting better.

And I personally am not saying that soccer is going to take off, and it doesn't have to. We can still be successful without the sport being #1 here. We just need to develop the young players better, which will happen at some point in the relatively near future.

Hate on soccer all you want, it's not going to change anything. And your trolling of soccer threads is getting old.

Oh, and for how long have we heard this now? ;)

Curly Bill
7/12/2010, 12:50 AM
See, I ask simple questions, honest questions. You get offended or atleast you come off that way. I wouldnt have made it a point that I wasnt trying to put soccer down if I didnt mean it, I am just trying to discuss.

To answer your suggestion, I dont follow Euro Leagues, The Premier League, etc... I follow Team USA and the WC as a whole to a lesser extent. Do I know soccer like I know football, baseball, or basketball, nope, not even close.

I do know what I see though and what my buddies tell me who follow it alot more than I do and they have alot of the same opinions that I do.

Has Soccer grown in the USA in the last 20 years, sure, has popularity gone up alot, not really, it HAS gone up but I wouldnt say substantially. IS our Soccer program better off now than 20 years ago, absolutely. Are we ready to consistently compete on a world stage, still not close. Thats all im saying

These soccer guys are pretty sensitive. :O

silverwheels
7/12/2010, 12:51 AM
See, I ask simple questions, honest questions. You get offended or atleast you come off that way. I wouldnt have made it a point that I wasnt trying to put soccer down if I didnt mean it, I am just trying to discuss.

To answer your suggestion, I dont follow Euro Leagues, The Premier League, etc... I follow Team USA and the WC as a whole to a lesser extent. Do I know soccer like I know football, baseball, or basketball, nope, not even close.

I do know what I see though and what my buddies tell me who follow it alot more than I do and they have alot of the same opinions that I do.

Has Soccer grown in the USA in the last 20 years, sure, has popularity gone up alot, not really, it HAS gone up but I wouldnt say substantially. IS our Soccer program better off now than 20 years ago, absolutely. Are we ready to consistently compete on a world stage, still not close. Thats all im saying

Xavi and Iniesta for Spain are both 5'7", I believe, and yet they are the best midfielder tandem in the world. That's a combination of their natural talent and how they were developed. David Villa was tied for the highest number of goals at the tournament, and he's only 5'9". Wesley Sneijder is 5'7". Other countries may have some guys that are 6'0" or taller, but rarely are their entire rosters that big, just like ours isn't. We have a big enough population so that our best athletes can play other sports, but the ones who play soccer are still athletic enough to hang with the world. Like I said, it's more about technical skill and development than just pure physical ability. Look at the Nigerian teams from the 90s. Athletically, they were freaks. But they never did any real damage because they weren't developed as well as the European or South American powers.

And I have also said that we are not yet ready to consistently compete on the world stage. I have just said that we are improving. We are light years ahead of where we were in 1990.

Curly Bill
7/12/2010, 12:51 AM
Actually it's more like the USA is aggy and Spain is LSU. We'll beat the best every now and then (like in 2009 when we beat Spain) but we're not the best in the world and won't be until the thinking changes at just about every level, and until it does, we're "a team on the rise."

The US actually brought one of the more athletic teams to this World Cup (note the late chances and goals). However, soccer is rarely about who is more athletic. It's much more about who is the most skilled. Iniesta isn't a physical freak athlete. Neither is Wesley Sneidjer. Nor Xavi. They just have honed their skills throughout their lives. Until the coaches, from the youth clubs up, figure out what skills are needed most (specifically, touch and passing) we're gonna be stuck in World Cup QFs.

I don't disagree with any of this.

Collier11
7/12/2010, 12:52 AM
My 1st memory of USA soccer was Tab Ramos and Alexi Lalas. I dont recall us being very good but I kept up a little back then as well

silverwheels
7/12/2010, 12:52 AM
Ya see, here's where I don't care what you think. I largely post where I want to. I know you think yourself the soccer guru or something, and I guess you'd like me not to come in and muddy up the rug, but tough luck.

I'm not a soccer guru, but I know a hell of a lot more about the sport than you do. And I don't mind if you share your opinion, ill-informed as it is, but is it that hard to not be a jackass about it? That's all I ask.

Curly Bill
7/12/2010, 12:55 AM
I'm not a soccer guru, but I know a hell of a lot more about the sport than you do. And I don't mind if you share your opinion, ill-informed as it is, but is it that hard to not be a jackass about it? That's all I ask.

Dude, we get it - you played in high school or some sh*t and so now you know all about it.

...and I could give a rats *ss if you mind or not if I share my opinion. ;)

silverwheels
7/12/2010, 12:56 AM
Oh, and for how long have we heard this now? ;)

People have been saying it since who knows when, but not as many as there are now, and given the improvement of the national team and increasing popularity of the sport in this country (no pro league has ever been as large or lasted as long as the MLS has), it's a lot closer to reality now than it ever has been.

silverwheels
7/12/2010, 12:58 AM
Dude, we get it - you played in high school or some sh*t and so now you know all about it.

...and I could give a rats *ss if you mind or not if I share my opinion. ;)

Okay, we get it - you're an ignorant jackass troll. We've already been over this.


...and I could give a rat's *ss if you give a rat's *ss if I mind or not if you share your opinion.

Curly Bill
7/12/2010, 12:59 AM
Speaking of a pro league: I watched about two minutes of it tonight: FC Dallas and someone...

Well, anyway -- whatever they were doing in no way compared to the soccer played this Saturday or Sunday on the world stage.

Curly Bill
7/12/2010, 01:01 AM
Okay, we get it - you're an ignorant jackass troll. We've already been over this.


...and I could give a rat's *ss if you give a rat's *ss if I mind or not if you share your opinion.

See, that's what I was going for: you to get your little soccer feelers hurt and then lash out. :D

But really, is troll the best you got? I don't know how well that works when someone has like 13,000 posts. Most trolls are pretty low mileage guys. Just sayin.

silverwheels
7/12/2010, 01:04 AM
Speaking of a pro league: I watched about two minutes of it tonight: FC Dallas and someone...

Well, anyway -- whatever they were doing in no way compared to the soccer played this Saturday or Sunday on the world stage.

FC Dallas and Seattle Sounders FC. It was an entertaining game towards the end, but no, it wasn't at the same level as say Chelsea vs. Manchester United or Real Madrid vs. Barcelona. It probably never will be, but for now MLS just has to be a good launching point for promising Americans so they can play in Europe. The quality of the league will improve at least some with time as long as it has money and the sport keeps growing in this country. It's no worse than the middle-tier leagues in Europe.

Curly Bill
7/12/2010, 01:06 AM
FC Dallas and Seattle Sounders FC. It was an entertaining game towards the end, but no, it wasn't at the same level as say Chelsea vs. Manchester United or Real Madrid vs. Barcelona. It probably never will be, but for now MLS just has to be a good launching point for promising Americans so they can play in Europe. The quality of the league will improve at least some with time as long as it has money and the sport keeps growing in this country. It's no worse than the middle-tier leagues in Europe.


...and as long as this is the case do we really have a chance to catch up with the big dogs?

tommieharris91
7/12/2010, 01:08 AM
...and as long as this is the case do we really have a chance to catch up with the big dogs?

That's what the Dutch league is right now.

silverwheels
7/12/2010, 01:10 AM
...and as long as this is the case do we really have a chance to catch up with the big dogs?

No, but it may not always be the case. MLS needs more money and for its players to be developed better. The latter is happening and will continue to happen (and it will improve even more if Klinsmann is our next head coach). The former will be harder to come by, but it will start flowing in once the quality of the league improves. And I'm not saying that the MLS will ever be on the same level as the Premier League or anything, but there's plenty of room for it to grow and it's definitely trying.

silverwheels
7/12/2010, 01:13 AM
That's what the Dutch league is right now.

Yeah, the Eredivisie has really fallen off in the past 20 years. Not as much money as the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, or Bundesliga. Probably not even Ligue 1, either.

Curly Bill
7/12/2010, 01:13 AM
OK, I'm taking my muddy shoes and going back outside.

Goodnight all.

tommieharris91
7/12/2010, 01:16 AM
Yeah, the Eredivisie has really fallen off in the past 20 years. Not as much money as the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, or Bundesliga. Probably not even Ligue 1, either.

It's still considered a launch pad for a lot of players. Look at guys like Luis Suarez, or at all of the guys who came out of the Ajax academy.

tommieharris91
7/12/2010, 01:18 AM
My 1st memory of USA soccer was Tab Ramos and Alexi Lalas. I dont recall us being very good but I kept up a little back then as well

That's because we weren't all that good back then.

silverwheels
7/12/2010, 01:21 AM
It's still considered a launch pad for a lot of players. Look at guys like Luis Suarez, or at all of the guys who came out of the Ajax academy.

True, but Ajax and PSV used to be able to beat the best of the rest of Europe consistently. Not so anymore with the best Dutch players getting paid more to play elsewhere.

tommieharris91
7/12/2010, 01:37 AM
True, but Ajax and PSV used to be able to beat the best of the rest of Europe consistently. Not so anymore with the best Dutch players getting paid more to play elsewhere.

Most of the Ajax academy guys don't stay with them anymore. I know that Ajax, PSV, and I think Feyenoord have won some European club titles, but that's not happening anymore because the clubs can get more cash selling off the top prospects VERY early on.

Scott D
7/12/2010, 07:13 PM
The youth development aspect brings up an interesting point. When I flew on my vacation there was a blurb about Barcelona in the airplane magazine written by a guy who was pretty much the same view as Collier and CB. That being said, his eyes were opened quite a bit and his appreciation increased as he learned more about it, and how much development goes into things.

The nice thing with how Barcelona develops youth players is that if they end up not being good enough to play soccer professionally, the kids still stay in the program to complete their educations so that they are ready to go into the business world armed with a full education.

These teams invest in these kids at an early age (12-13 years old) and develop them in both playing the sport and getting them their education. If that kind of development of players happened here, instead of silly gimmicks like Freddy Adu being drafted by MLS at 15 and playing professionally he might have been a contributing player on this year's squad. Jozy Altidore would have benefitted more from this type of system than the way he came up and basically went to MLS from high school.

TUSooner
7/14/2010, 08:14 AM
It's still soccer, and we're still the USA, and no matter what the soccer sunshine pumpers keep telling us, it's just never ever really gonna take off in this country.

Yeah. That's very old and stale and lame. So what if soccer won't pass baseball or basketball or football in popularity? It doesn't have to to be viable. Like it or not, it has steadily gained in popularity over the decades. Are you trying to tell soccer fans that they are mistaken and they really don't like the game as much as they think? Pfffft.... :rolleyes:

Curly Bill
7/14/2010, 02:49 PM
Yeah. That's very old and stale and lame. So what if soccer won't pass baseball or basketball or football in popularity? It doesn't have to to be viable. Like it or not, it has steadily gained in popularity over the decades. Are you trying to tell soccer fans that they are mistaken and they really don't like the game as much as they think? Pfffft.... :rolleyes:

You got that's what I said?

pfffffft....:O

TUSooner
7/14/2010, 03:04 PM
You got that's what I said?

pfffffft....:O

You've said it SOMEWHERE; that's close enough. ;)