Rangers just got Cliff Lee

[soonerinabilene]

im speechless. a midseason move that is good for them? im just so used to Tom Hicks running things i forgot what it was like.

[Curly Bill]

I thought he was heading to Yankee-land.

I'm listening to ESPN outta Dallas and am stunned.

[HBick]

Huge for the Rangers. Legitimate contender? I think so.

[soonerinabilene]

giving up smoak is a little bit of a gamble, but if chris davis can find his swing it will work out. davis is phenomenal on the bag, just needs joboos help to hit curveball.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Lee gives them the legit number 1 starter u need to win in October/November; now if they can just get there

[Scott D]

You Ranger fans better hope that Lee doesn't continue to pitch in Arlington the way he has during his entire career, otherwise the Rangers will have to score at least 9 runs a night on average to win his starts.

[JLEW1818]

The Rangers will actually finish off the west this year.

If they don't, the team should be sold.

[texaspokieokie]

best move ever made by rangers.

shud be a cinch for the west. (weakest division in all of majors)

[tulsaoilerfan]

You Ranger fans better hope that Lee doesn't continue to pitch in Arlington the way he has during his entire career, otherwise the Rangers will have to score at least 9 runs a night on average to win his starts.

Well he won't have to face the Rangers lineup so that should help some

[Scott D]

Yeah, but he's going from a very pitcher friendly environment in Seattle, to Arlington in the dead heat of summer. I'll agree that Lee is a better pitcher than he was before, but that 7.62 career ERA is pretty daunting.

[ouleaf]

Huge move for the Rangers and they really didn't have to give up a whole lot either. Smoak, while definitely someone to keep an eye on the next few years, just isn't giving you what you need for an American league 1st baseman. Just have to hope that between Crush Davis, Spider Arias, or possible even David Murphy can take over at 1st.

Having Lee on he staff is a big upgrade, and will help out the entire rotation. Huge pickup for the Rangers.

[Salt City Sooner]

I thought he was heading to Yankee-land.

I'm listening to ESPN outta Dallas and am stunned.
Give him 5-6 months & he will be.

[JLEW1818]

and Roy O... ha

[GrapevineSooner]

Unfortunately, Bengie Molina is still on this team.

He can't hit, he called for the off speed pitch for Neftali to throw to Cory Patterson that we deposited into the right field seats for a game tying grand slam in the 9th on Friday, and he can't block pitches worth a damn.

[tommieharris91]

Unfortunately, Bengie Molina is still on this team.

He can't hit, he called for the off speed pitch for Neftali to throw to Cory Patterson that we deposited into the right field seats for a game tying grand slam in the 9th on Friday, and he can't block pitches worth a damn.

He should have just asked for eyes-high heat against him.

[texaspokieokie]

i think giving up Beavan was a bigger deal than Smoak.

supposed to be mid-point of season, but rangers have played 88 games
with 74 remaining. that's not the middle.

[texaspokieokie]

see where the angels got haren. 2 or 3 year deal, not just a 1/2 season rental.

[ouleaf]

see where the angels got haren. 2 or 3 year deal, not just a 1/2 season rental.

They gotta do something after the Rangers took 3 of 4 this past series and are now 7 games up.....a bit surprising is that the A's are now only a half game back of the Angels.

[texaspokieokie]

yep, Haren may not be enough.

[ouleaf]

Lee pitched an absolute gem last night agains the A's....guy is a stud.

[Curly Bill]

It would be nice if the Ranger's offense didn't assume they can take the night off with him on the mound.

[ouleaf]

The A's are actually playing pretty good baseball right now as well....still good experience to win these low scoring pitchers duel games.

[texaspokieokie]

uh oh, Lee lost another one yesterday.

[ouleaf]

uh oh, Lee lost another one yesterday.

Lee has also been going up against the other team's Ace for the most part. The offense has just seemed to stuggle a bit lately when going up against an ace. Lee has pitched great, he just hasn't gotten a lot of help.

[texaspokieokie]

Lee's pitch count is what amazes me. allows him to pitch complete games,
on a level like the old days. of course, with a 5 man rotation he'll get fewer starts.

[texaspokieokie]

he doesn't get much support; but he's not helping as much as i thot he would.

the main way he helps is pitching deep into games thus saving the bullpen.

rangers record when Lee starts is 3-7.

they're still a shoo-in for american west, the weakest division in all of baseball.

[texaspokieokie]

does anyone know,(without looking it up) where Ron Gardenhire graduated from high school.

20 yrs after me.

[ouleaf]

he doesn't get much support; but he's not helping as much as i thot he would.

the main way he helps is pitching deep into games thus saving the bullpen.

rangers record when Lee starts is 3-7.

they're still a shoo-in for american west, the weakest division in all of baseball.

Yeah, he didn't pitch terribly last night, he just left a few hanging and the Twins made him pay. For whatever reason the Rangers bats seem to go cold when he takes the mound too.

While is record isn't that great, I do thinking having a true Ace like that on your staff has really helped the rest of the guys in the rotation.

[texaspokieokie]

yep, he helps the staff, starters & relief.

[Scott D]

that may be, but his ERA is nearly double in Texas what it was in Seattle where he got no help from the offense most nights.

[texaspokieokie]

the Rangers were lucky that they're not gonna get Manny.

don't need another DH.

unless he could bat for whomever is playing 1st base.

[yankee]

that may be, but his ERA is nearly double in Texas what it was in Seattle where he got no help from the offense most nights.

well duh. everyone is starting to realize that it really doesn't matter how good of a pitcher you are, it's hard to win at the Ballpark. it's a freakin' launching pad for baseballs. Cliff's ERA in Arlington before he got to the Rangers was in the 6's or 7's if i recall correctly.

[texaspokieokie]

it's not that much of a "launching pad"; his era in arlington is higher than those on rangers that pitch there 1/2 the time.

[yankee]

it's not that much of a "launching pad";

yes it is. always has been known as a GREAT hitters' ballpark. trust me, i lived 20 minutes away and i've seen many games there.

[texaspokieokie]

i live in irving; & his era is 6 or 7, it's not that much of a launching pad.

he's the "ace" & his era is much worse than the other ranger guys when @ home.

look @ wilson,hunter & others.

in years past it was a "launching pad" for the opposition,largely because
they were batting against ranger (not good) pitching.

launching pad is like denver, up high where air is thin.

i live less than 20 minutes away; & have been to many games there,saw the dodgers there twice last year. would go much more often;but i'm not a fan of rangers.

[Scott D]

well duh. everyone is starting to realize that it really doesn't matter how good of a pitcher you are, it's hard to win at the Ballpark. it's a freakin' launching pad for baseballs. Cliff's ERA in Arlington before he got to the Rangers was in the 6's or 7's if i recall correctly.

I'm pretty sure I said early in this thread that his numbers were much higher in Arlington, and that based on that it was a little too early for Ranger fans to get real excited, because the Cliff Lee they were getting was likely going to have inflated numbers because of Arlington, and not be the Cliff Lee that was in Seattle/Philadelphia.

[texaspokieokie]

i agree; but it's not because of the park, don't know what it is.

to blame it on the park being a "launching pad", is a "cop-out".

his control is so good,(almost never issues a walk) that when he's off,
it's not a "ball", it's a "strike", nearer middle of plate. hitters whack those.

JMHO

[Scott D]

Be it the park, the location, the weather, the seasons, in the end it doesn't matter. He's always "struggled" in Arlington, and being on the home team doesn't change that for him.

On the bright side of things, he isn't a Cub.

[texaspokieokie]

agree,doesn't matter what it is.

[texaspokieokie]

addition by subtraction !!!!

Dodgers dumped manny !!!!!!!

[GrapevineSooner]

addition by subtraction !!!!

Dodgers dumped manny !!!!!!!

Worth the gamble by the White Sox.

They'll get him for the stretch run and only be on the hook for about $4 million in salary.

And Manny's like T.O. from the standpoint that neither player wears out their welcome right away.

Usually takes about a season under each player's belt before they start causing problems.

[Scott D]

plus it's a $$$ month for Manny. Besides, I just remind myself..he can't be worse offensively than the Kotsay/Jones combination.

[texaspokieokie]

in a game the dodgers lost a couple nites ago; came up as PH with the bases loaded. got thrown out for arguing the call on the 1st pitch.

time for him to go.

i don't think he's still got the same swing as before he was caught & suspended (50 games) last year not as much power. pure speculation on my part.

i agree, if he wants to be in Chi town, he may help.

at least the dodgers can save about 4 mil of the 45 mil they pissed away on him.

[Scott D]

I'm just pretty much hinging everything on the whole "He can't be worse than Kotsay and Jones" theory :)

[texaspokieokie]

that's a safe bet.

is that andruw jones ??

dodgers took a real bath on him,also.

36 mil for 2 years & he was so bad they dropped him after the first yr.

still paid the whole thing.

@ 18mil per, he made more than a mil/rbi. good work if you can get it.

[texaspokieokie]

what's wrong with cliff lee ???

rangers record when he starts ; 3-8
of course that's not his record, like last nite he gave up 7 runs (4 earned)
but got "no decision".

people they already had could have gotten them a 3-8 record.

he has tho, for the most part. saved the bull pen.

[Scott D]

that's a safe bet.

is that andruw jones ??

dodgers took a real bath on him,also.

36 mil for 2 years & he was so bad they dropped him after the first yr.

still paid the whole thing.

@ 18mil per, he made more than a mil/rbi. good work if you can get it.

yeah it's andruw jones. Sox aren't paying him anywhere near as much as the Dodgers did, or even the Rangers. He came to camp as a spring training invitee to have a chance to make the MLB roster, and ended up doing so.

What it's garnered is a .203 BA with 19HR and I forget how many RBI for a part time player who for some reason Ozzie puts in as a defensive replacement in late innings in right when clearly his best defensive days are behind him...at 33 it's a sad thing.

[texaspokieokie]

i think the rangers paid him only about 500k. but he was still being paid by dodgers for 2nd year of his contract.

don't know what the chisox are paying, but it's too much.

j think the dodgers thot they were getting a CF (he has 10 or 11 gold gloves)
but apparently lost it @ an early age. has some power; but even last season in atlanta he hit only >222. musta been 2007.

anyway, glad he's not a dodger, @ least he's rich.

[texaspokieokie]

just wonder if Ozzie will make Manny shed his dreds ???

he shud.

[texaspokieokie]

i just heard that cliff lee has come back to arlington, to maybe get a shot for his lower back. not sposed to miss a turn.

[Scott D]

if andruw gets his head right he could still have some very productive years. he's turned into that guy who tries to hit every pitch out of the park and pull it. He'd be hitting .300+ if he'd take the outside pitch and go the other way with it. He's still got the physical tools, but the disconnect is somewhere between brain and body. Sox signed him to a $500k contract with incentives that could push it to $1M.

Manny may trim the dreads, or cut em off...his barber is flying to Boston.

[ouleaf]

what's wrong with cliff lee ???

rangers record when he starts ; 3-8
of course that's not his record, like last nite he gave up 7 runs (4 earned)
but got "no decision".

people they already had could have gotten them a 3-8 record.

he has tho, for the most part. saved the bull pen.

There are theories that its the fact that he has pitched every 5th day as opposed to every 6th day when he was up in Seattle. Thinking maybe the extra days off would serve hime well.

There is also the theory that he just needs to fine tune his control within the strike zone. Not saying Cliff can't throw strikes anymore, far from it, he is one of the best. The theory out there is that he has gotten a bit wild within the strike zone. Instead of maybe jamming a guy on the inside of the plate, the ball winds up a couple inches over and is right in a guys wheel house.

I am worried at this point with how he'd match up against another ace if the playoffs were to start today. Since the A's are doing everything in there power to not close the gap, it's pretty safe to pencil in the Rangers as the AL West champs for 2010. Hopefully, the Rangers can use this next month to get some guys some rest, work back in those guys coming back from injury and be ready to face either the Yankees or Rays

[texaspokieokie]

don't have to "pencil them in"; use a ball point.

AL west is a puny division this year.

[texaspokieokie]

weakest division in all of baseball. if play-offs started today, rangers have to play the dreaded YANKS.

[texaspokieokie]

strange that he would be pitching "every 6th day" in seattle.

[texaspokieokie]

see where cliff lee is gonna miss a turn.

[GrapevineSooner]

weakest division in all of baseball. if play-offs started today, rangers have to play the dreaded YANKS.


:pop:
:D

[texaspokieokie]

no change

[ouleaf]

Went to the matinee game yesterday and while the weather was pretty terrible, the pitching was not. Cliff looked solid. Maybe the extra day off was the key? I don't know. Thought he showed good control. Yankees did a good job about trying to extend AB against him and get his pitch count up. It seemed thought that for every inning where his pitch count would be high, he'd follow it up with one that was a low pitch count inning.

Just a sick drag bunt single by Borbon to bring home Kinsler was the highlight of the game though. Great win and great series for the Rangers. On a 5 game win streak now after going through a slump the past few weeks is just what they need.

Now just need to focus on getting healthy, and building some momentum for the playoffs.

[texaspokieokie]

now things have changed in AL. rangers looking much better, cliff lee back in top form & yanks appear to be fading.

too soon to say;but rangers situation has improved.

[Scott D]

As much as I dislike Jim Rome, he had an interesting point about how coincidental it was that Lee got extra time off before a start against the Yankees and looked dominant.

His speculation is that Lee was addressing it as an audition for the Yankees, and that his preference is to return to the east coast to pitch (Yanks, Phils, Sawx, etc.)

[ouleaf]

As much as I dislike Jim Rome, he had an interesting point about how coincidental it was that Lee got extra time off before a start against the Yankees and looked dominant.

His speculation is that Lee was addressing it as an audition for the Yankees, and that his preference is to return to the east coast to pitch (Yanks, Phils, Sawx, etc.)

It's a pretty popular conspiracy theory that is floating around the baseball world. Rome certainly isn't the only one talking about it.

I don't really buy it, but in a way it is true. If the Yanks and Rangers meet up in the playoffs and Lee pitches lights out against them, it will more than likely cause the Yankees to go deeper into their purse to offer Lee next season.

[Scott D]

that's kind of what Rome was getting at. What better way to get the Yankees attention than to go out and dominate them in your walk away to free agency year.

[texaspokieokie]

what do you think about moving josh hamilton to 1st base. keep him from running into wall.

[ouleaf]

what do you think about moving josh hamilton to 1st base. keep him from running into wall.

I think he is too good of an outfielder to move to 1B personally. He covers a lot of ground for such a big guy. I think that was part of the reason they moved him from Center to Left field was to hope to limit the chances of injury, and Borbon has been a serviceable CF for them this year. I say keep him in LF and backup CF if they need him there.

What they need to be concerned with is getting David Murphy in the regular rotation. If they can develop him at 1B and still be a backup RF/LF guy, that is something I'd really be interested in. Murphy has pretty much saved this team from August on and has slowly but surely upped his average from about .180 at the beginning of the year to damn near .300

[texaspokieokie]

others have been moved to 1st to help lenghten their careers.
can only think of Pujols (excellent outfielder) & Stan Musial.

like moving from catcher to outfield, Bench, berra, gil hodges.

many more that i can't remember.

Mike Piazza

thing is, Josh is fragile. he's 29 or so & only 4 seasons (mostly due to drugs)
in the majors. only 2008 did he play good number of games.

need his bat in more games. murphy can do job in left. Josh's bat can't be replaced.

of course the rangers wouldn't have him if he hadn't been flawed.
they were lucky.

[texaspokieokie]

plus he's 6'-4" & left handed.

he did play 156 games in 2008.

he doesn't seem to be the homer hitter that some would have you believe.
if he gets back in, this is his best year for homers.

[texaspokieokie]

which is better, 1B or DL ???

[texaspokieokie]

saw in todays DMN that Kevin Sherrington suggested to the rangers that
they move Hamilton to 1B next year, to prolong his career.

also some guy in "letters to editor" suggested same thing.

i'm not the only one to think that might be a good move.
i think i'm objective, as i'm NOT a fan of rangers.

[GrapevineSooner]

saw in todays DMN that Kevin Sherrington suggested to the rangers that
they move Hamilton to 1B next year, to prolong his career.

also some guy in "letters to editor" suggested same thing.

i'm not the only one to think that might be a good move.
i think i'm objective, as i'm NOT a fan of rangers.

I wouldn't oppose it. It seems his lack of durability stems from injuries suffered in the outfield.

In other news, the strange and wacky Red Sox season just ended, for all intents on purposes...on a walkoff walk to the Yankees.

Cue the shrimp.

[ouleaf]

Looks like the Rangers are set to re-ink a deal with Fox for approx. $80MM per year over the next 20 years. That should help out a little when it comes to hopefully resigning Cliff.

Rangers have to be careful with their spending though. It's a fairly young team who will all have expiring contracts in the next few seasons that you'll want to keep some extra dough around to sign them.

[texaspokieokie]

How far will the Rangers go ?????

[texaspokieokie]

RANGERS WIN 2ND PLAYOFF GAME IN TEAM HISTORY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ouleaf]

Lee was at his finest today, that's for sure. After a so-so first couple innings, he was lights out. Plus the fact that he got a good amount of run support. Not too many teams get the better of Price, especially at home.

Great win!

[Blue]

Halladay about to throw a no hitter. Wow.

[texaspokieokie]

He did it !!! WOW !!!!!!!!!!