Andre Ware Just Said... (2.0)

[Eielson]

That Arkansas has the best quarterback, offensive line, and wide receivers in the country. Maybe the entire country's entire offense will get injured and he will be close to right again.

[JLEW1818]

lol, i remember

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm not going to put down his prognostications after last year.

[Sooner04]

Well, he was right last year.

[goingoneight]

Are you all superstitious or something? Haha... Andre Ware played Russian Roulette and won with OU in 2009. He had NO WAY in JUNE 2009 of knowing we'd lose...

Sam
Gresh
Numerous linemen

NO WAY did he go on campus and guess that senior wideouts wouldn't be able to catch a cold.

He's buying lottery tickets at best... does anyone outside of Fayetnam know the name of an Arkansas receiver? Let alone all of them?

Mallet is good. The SEC will make him look bad on the big stage.

[Eielson]

Well, he was right last year.

Actually, even if we assume he had knowledge of the future injuries, he was still wrong.

[goingoneight]

I remember seeing it the first time he grasped at that straw last year. He was knocking Sam's "playmaking ability" and said it was the OL that made him a Heisman winner (paraphrased, of course). That was his reasoning behind us losing four games (he picked BYU, "possibly Tulsa" :rolleyes:, Miami and Texas. He later said before the Tceh game that we'd lose to our "rival," OSU... lol).

His stance was that the OL couldn't give Sam time to make plays, discounting the fact that Gresham could have been in for a MONSTER year with last season's OL issues (being the checkdown option and all). Gresham, the guy who was good for 12-18 TDs a year.

No two bigger and more important injuries occured in CFB than Sam and Gresham. The OL stunk against BYU, but easily could have been "brought along" with Sam and Gresham in the game. Instead, that extra linebacker who would have been JG's byatch was blitzing LANDRY JONES and that cheating safety who would have been JG's other byatch was cheating over the top of Adron Tennell.

At one point in the season, we had Sam, Gresh, Murray, Williams AND Broyles out (Miami). For OU/TX... Broyles wasn't completely healthy, and a whole week's worth of game prep given to Sam was lost to injury again.

I know that's how football goes. They don't call timeout or delay the game a few days to let Johnny All-American heal up. However, when someone talks out their *** and ends up "kinda" right... I don't put anymore stock into their babbling than I do Mark May in general CFB knowledge.

[starclassic tama]

Actually, even if we assume he had knowledge of the future injuries, he was still wrong.

how was he wrong? he said the offensive line would struggle (they did), and we would be 8-4. we were 8-5.

[SOONERJOSHUA]

I think he says jones is gonna win the heisman? and then we become champions after 10 years? sounds good to me

[oudavid1]

it dosnt really matter, he i snot God.....Tebow Is

[Sooner04]

Actually, even if we assume he had knowledge of the future injuries, he was still wrong.
Well, I have no idea what you're talking about.

[badger]

In case you all forgot this awesome thread from Andre Ware 1.0:
Linky (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135340)

04, he might have been referring to the fact that Ware predicted that we'd have four losses, when in fact we had five.

<facepalm>

[Eielson]

how was he wrong? he said...we would be 8-4. we were 8-5.

I just don't know how to respond. This is incredible.

[picasso]

how was he wrong? he said the offensive line would struggle (they did), and we would be 8-4. we were 8-5.

We aren't 8-4 with Bradford and Jermaine.

[soonerfromgeorgia]

it dosnt really matter, he i snot God.....Tebow Is

I don't think snotting god is a good idea !

[Collier11]

Dont know if anyone has mentioned it but he said that ut would lose to Wyoming this season

[stoopified]

Well, he was right last year.Not really.He got lucky that OU was wiped out by injuries otherwise he would have been dead wrong.IF he had said OU was going to suffer several key injuries and therefore lose 5 games I would give him credit.It was a very LUCKY(or from an OU standpoint)unlucky guess.

[JLEW1818]

anybody can make a bold statement. If you are wrong, nobody remembers or cares. Only the school's fans remember.

make a bold statement, and be correct, everybody remembers.

[Collier11]

Jlew will have a sex change in the next year so he can pursue a relationship with Lebron, Count On It!

[JLEW1818]

i hate that guy.

meow

[Collier11]

How can you be Lovers if you cant be friends?

[Sooner04]

Not really.He got lucky that OU was wiped out by injuries otherwise he would have been dead wrong.IF he had said OU was going to suffer several key injuries and therefore lose 5 games I would give him credit.It was a very LUCKY(or from an OU standpoint)unlucky guess.
Good grief. That's like the weatherman saying, "it will rain August 15" and then not giving him credit by saying, "well, it wouldn't have rained if that hurricane hadn't come through".

Before the season he said we'd lose four games. We did, and people still get up in arms over it.

[Collier11]

Actually thats a horrible comparison, a weatherman saying it will rain next wednesday is nearly a guess, to say it would rain over a month away is nothing more than a shot in the dark

If we had Bradford and Gresham we dont lose most of those games

[gaylordfan1]

Well, heres to BOLDstatements...... Thank you Phil Steele for bringing us back!

[TopDawg]

People, when you're deciding if a person is right or wrong about a statement they've made, luck doesn't factor into it.

Now if you're trying to decide if their correct prediction means they are smart or a gifted prognosticator or whatever else, then, by all means, factor in whatever role you think luck played in them being correct.

With that said...it's okay to say "Andre Ware was lucky." "Andre Ware is stupid." "Andre Ware doesn't know what he's talking about." But to say "Andre Ware was wrong." is, well, wrong (at least as it pertains to his prediction that we would lose 4 games last year).

[TopDawg]

And for the record, Andre Ware IS dumb and I for one don't care what he thought, thinks or WILL think about almost every last one of the things he talks about on ESPN.

[Okie35]

And for the record, Andre Ware IS dumb and I for one don't care what he thought, thinks or WILL think about almost every last one of the things he talks about on ESPN.

I hear you.

[starclassic tama]

the reason sam got hurt was because of poor o-line performance.

[Jacie]

Dont know if anyone has mentioned it but he said that ut would lose to Wyoming this season

In 2009, whorns 41 - brown cowboys 10, and that game was played in Laramie.

In 2010, the cowboys play Boise State the week after traveling to Austin. Maybe Andre thinks they will catch sa*et looking ahead to their game the following week against sand aggie or he is banking on wyoming's 16 returning starters (from a 7-6 team) to be the difference. That is the kind of prognostication we are talking about here.

[goingoneight]

the reason sam got hurt was because of poor o-line performance.

Because of two bad plays, he was sacked. Yes, the OL was a freakish thing last year, but let's not pretend that even veteran OLs don't allow the QB to take a shot at least three times a game. Even if it's not a sack, persay. Miami and Tejas obliterated Sam on pretty much the same play back in 2007. The difference was he was able to get up.

And yes, it DOES matter WHY he was "right" (AKA "wrong") about OU in 2009. He said that in June on the thesis that Sam, Jermaine, Broyles and Murray wouldn't have made the difference. As stated above, if he can predict who is going to hurt what, who is going to suck replacing a starter and how it affects the outcome, he's lucky at best. FWIW, I have nothing against him. But even I could state that a coach won't be coaching for much longer. My theory may be that the fans are getting tired of not going to a bowl, and said coach croaks... do I go pumping my chest that I predicted a coaching change?

[Sooner04]

And yes, it DOES matter WHY he was "right" (AKA "wrong") about OU in 2009. He said that in June on the thesis that Sam, Jermaine, Broyles and Murray wouldn't have made the difference. As stated above, if he can predict who is going to hurt what, who is going to suck replacing a starter and how it affects the outcome, he's lucky at best. FWIW, I have nothing against him. But even I could state that a coach won't be coaching for much longer. My theory may be that the fans are getting tired of not going to a bowl, and said coach croaks... do I go pumping my chest that I predicted a coaching change?
Is Andre pumping his chest over all this? Or is it that everyone here is still pissed that his preseason prediction for 2009 was correct?

[picasso]

the reason sam got hurt was because of poor o-line performance.

Wow, no ****?

And Ware knew this would happen. Same as Gresh hurting his knee running in practice.

Brilliant.

[picasso]

Is Andre pumping his chest over all this? Or is it that everyone here is still pissed that his preseason prediction for 2009 was correct?

I didn't like him when he was playing football at Houston and not going to class.

[Eielson]

Before the season he said we'd lose four games. We did, and people still get up in arms over it.

No, we didn't. We lost five games.

[Sooner04]

I guess he forgot to factor in Landry Jones.

Anyhow, I will retire from this conversation because I can't wrap my head around the point you guys are trying to make.

[Eielson]

Anyhow, I will retire from this conversation because I can't wrap my head around the point you guys are trying to make.

The point I'm trying to make is that Ware is ridiculous and that Arkansas does not have the best quarterback, wide receivers, and offensive line.

[TopDawg]

I'm trying to figure out how we got to 5 losses without losing 4 games.

[TopDawg]

And yes, it DOES matter WHY he was "right" (AKA "wrong") about OU in 2009.

Sure it matters.

But it doesn't change the fact that he WAS right.

[OU Adonis]

He was right. We can make excuses on why he was right, but he was on the mark.

[Eielson]

I'm trying to figure out how we got to 5 losses without losing 4 games.

Well shoot, everybody except the people who had us undefeated predicted correctly by that logic. I picked the Sooners to lose 1 game last year. Guess I was right.

[Soonerntxs]

Ok, Ware was 90% right last year, but I have a 100% prediction for him this year:

"Your mouth has just taken over for your A--, the Pigs will fumble more than ND. Now for the Meat & Potatos @ OU, Mr. L. Jones will get a nod from the Heisman and D. Murry will break all the records. K. Stills will have a break out year with 17 TD's and T. Lewis & T. Wort will knock helmets off of 4 players this year & for my final prediction, Mr. Ware, our OL will be TOP SHELF and last but not least, the saxeT short whorns will smell like burnt BEVO after just two games."

Now that that is said, lets take wagers.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Jlew will have a sex change in the next year so he can pursue a relationship with Lebron, Count On It!

next year? pfft...

[Soonerntxs]

OOPS: I forgot WE GET #8!

Now I have 50 posts....lmao

BOOMER SOONER!

[goingoneight]

Here's a prediction I can respect:

"OU is always very talented. They have one of the top coaches in the business. With what looks to be a boom or bust-kind of team coming back for 2010, a key injury at quarterback to two one of stars DeMarco Murray or Ryan Broyles could spell disaster for a team one would think is a "can't-miss" National Championship contender. Given a healthy year, I agree that the sky's the limit with all of the experience coming back. However, Sooner fans will have to bite their nails should a premier playmaker go down for the count. Depth is an issue in many areas. 1999, 2005 and 2009 have shown us that experience makes a big difference for Stoops-coached football teams."

Here's what you get most of the time from the so-called "experts."
Landry Jones has a lot to prove after a season where they didn't win one game outside of Norman. Ryan Broyles is okay, but the rest of the guys coming back are inexperienced; or in the case of Adron Tennell, just not all they're hyped up to be. Gerald McCoy's gone, so look for a rough year defensively. The Sooners have once again over-scheduled themselves, and I think they'll lose four to five games. I base this on no real knowledge of their situation down in Norman and I promise you if a crazy sh!tstorm happens again, I'll be here to smile and say I told you so."

"The quarterback situation is a disaster at Oklahoma. Not only for this season, but for the future of the program after this loss. Oklahoma will NOT live up to the lofty expectations of a few months ago; Oklahoma will NOT win the BIG 12 Championship, or be a factor in the BCS."
-Lee Corso

"Simple answer: no they can't, no they won't."
-Mark May when asked the same question Lee was asked in 2006.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

There's a 50 percent chance that 68 percent of the season will be played by 84 percent of the starting offense. Of course, this is all dependent on 47 percent of Bob's effort being placed toward 70 percent of the 30 percent remaining on the offensive side of the ball.

I win.

[TopDawg]

Well shoot, everybody except the people who had us undefeated predicted correctly by that logic. I picked the Sooners to lose 1 game last year. Guess I was right.

If you said "OU will lose a game next year," you were right. And nobody would've made much fuss about your prediction or the fact that you were right.

If you said "OU will lose only one game next year," you were not right.

If Andre Ware had said "OU will lose exactly 4 games next year," he would not have been right. But he didn't. He said OU will lose 4 games next year. And we did.

He was right.

[Eielson]

If Andre Ware had said "OU will lose exactly 4 games next year," he would not have been right. But he didn't. He said OU will lose 4 games next year. And we did.

No. He predicted our regular season record to be 8-4. It was 7-5. He was close, but wrong.

(I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure he picked our record...not just our total losses.)

[goingoneight]

Everyone can keep arguing percentages and numbers... all I know is someone made an extremely uneducated guess last summer and ended up being close to right.

I guess if you take away everyone who buys lottery tickets but me, I can say I won the lottery!

[GKeeper316]

Well, he was right last year.

no he wasnt. what made him appear to be right was **** out of anyone's control like massive amounts of injuries.

he also predicted that wyoming is gonna beat the cows in austin.

his preseason predictions will be shown to be nothing more than what they are... the musings of a half intelligent former player trying to make a name for himself as an analyst.

[Collier11]

It was a shot in the dark and he got it close, his prediction was while the team was still healthy. If he had said the Oline will suck and because of it we will lose Bradford and then 5 games he would be right, he wasnt right, he was lucky

[Sooner04]

So the guy says we'll lose four games. We do.

But he's not right. He's just lucky.

Got it. I have absolutely no idea how you guys are coming to this conclusion, but I got it.

[Collier11]

Because when he said it we had our team intact, anyone with a brain knows that with Bradford we win several of those games we lost. He got lucky that Bradford got hurt.

He was trying to make an outrageous statement and it happened to come true due to an amazing amount of extraordinary circumstances taking place, he wasnt basing it off of expertise or knowledge, it was a big mouthed shot in the dark, that is luck

[soonerboy_odanorth]

I both agree and disagree with everyone.

On the one hand, Ware got lucky by being contrarian. Most analysts made the blue-blood program assumption of reloading, not rebuilding, hence the lofty expectations. Ware said, "No, the O-line is a wreck and will cause trouble."

He was right... but with help. The O-line injuries, and most importantly Gresham (more than Bradford, IMO), were a 1-3 loss difference. But people who have played the game will tell you that the single most important unit on the field to controlling field position and the flow of the game is the offensive line. I don't think that is a secret. So an inexperienced line, coupled with injuries... and there you go. And we should admit, if we are being realistic, that probably 3 of those game fully healthy still could have gone either way.

So if we assume it was a confluence of his knowledge of the game and chance, he was right.

Then again, taking the argmument of a healthy Gresham getting us out of the BYU game on a squeaker, o-line staying healthy and having time to gel, it is not at all inconceivable ("that word you keep saying... I do not think it means what you think it means") we are a 1 or 2 loss team following bowl season. So his pick had all the potential to be wrong. Reality just leaned his way with a big assist from chance.

Look at it this way. If we stay 100% healthy in 2010 like 2000, this team has all the potential in the world to walk away with it all. Lose Broyles, Murray, and two o-linemen, and we're looking easily at 3-4 losses. The margin for error is that slim when you are talking about competition at this level.

Remember: they have scholarship players, too.

(How's that for slicing it right down the middle?)

[Eielson]

So the guy says we'll lose four games. We do.

But he's not right. He's just lucky.

Got it. I have absolutely no idea how you guys are coming to this conclusion, but I got it.

First of all, if I remember correctly, he predicted us to be 8-4 in the regular season. We were 7-5. Yes, that's close, but it's still wrong.

As for luck, you're smart enough to understand that it was. I could rant and rave about this for paragraphs, but I'll just leave you with the basic point. With Bradford (the Heisman Trophy winner) and Gresham (best TE in the country), that team does not lose 4 games. Not even close.

[Collier11]

Well, we lost to tex by 3 w/o Either (Bradford barely played), lost to Neb by a TD when Landry threw 5 picks, one of them set up Neb's only TD (Bradford isnt doing that), lost to Miami by 1 and BYU by 1, we probably win atleast 2 of those games and probably 3 or all of them

[Eielson]

Well, we lost to tex by 3 w/o Either (Bradford barely played), lost to Neb by a TD when Landry threw 5 picks, one of them set up Neb's only TD (Bradford isnt doing that), lost to Miami by 1 and BYU by 1, we probably win atleast 2 of those games and probably 3 or all of them

Against BYU, we were winning when Bradford went down. That's without Gresham. The defense dominated BYU, and so I think it's safe to assume we would have won that one.

Against Miami, we win as long as Broyles doesn't get hurt like he did on his first catch. It's a blowout if Bradford and Gresham play.

Against Nebraska, Bradford would just have to play awful for us to win. I can't think of any words to describe Landry's performance, but it's definitely worse than awful. Landry single-handedly handed them the game.

Texas was a three point game, and Texas was held to only 16 points. I think it's safe to assume that Bradford and Gresham could have led us to 17 points. Everything changes if they come in the game, so I'm not going to guarantee we would've won, but I'm pretty confident.

Agreeing with Collier and disagreeing with 04 is an awful feeling, and for once...probably right. :O

[TopDawg]

Because when he said it we had our team intact, anyone with a brain knows that with Bradford we win several of those games we lost. He got lucky that Bradford got hurt.

He was trying to make an outrageous statement and it happened to come true due to an amazing amount of extraordinary circumstances taking place, he wasnt basing it off of expertise or knowledge, it was a big mouthed shot in the dark, that is luck

The only way he's lucky IS IF HE IS RIGHT!

[Collier11]

If its so wrong why does it feel so right :D

[Collier11]

The only way he's lucky IS IF HE IS RIGHT!

Here is my point which I am assuming you get but are refusing to acknowledge it :D

If I say aliens will land on Earth next wednesday and they actually do, while I will be correct it will be out of complete luck, not cus I knew what I was talking about, same with Ware in this case

[TopDawg]

I get why you all think he's lucky.

I don't get why you all refuse to acknowledge that he was right.

[Collier11]

in the least knowledgeable way possible, yea, he was right

[Leroy Lizard]

Because when he said it we had our team intact, anyone with a brain knows that with Bradford we win several of those games we lost. He got lucky that Bradford got hurt.

They call this begging the question.

You assumed a premise (OU cannot lose four games with Bradford) to prove the premise (OU would not have lost four games if Bradford had played).

[Collier11]

and in this case it is almost 100% common sense dontcha think, even though it cant be proven

[Leroy Lizard]

and in this case it is almost 100% common sense dontcha think, even though it cant be proven

Ware made a bold prediction. To discount him, you are relying on what you think would have likely happened. But that defeats the very purpose of a bold prediction.

[Collier11]

but the facts back up that a bold prediction rarely comes true, it is more for shock value than anything

[Leroy Lizard]

but the facts back up that a bold prediction rarely comes true, it is more for shock value than anything

Okay, so here is how it goes.

1. Ware made a prediction that rarely comes true (a bold prediction).
2. Therefore he was only lucky.
3. Why was he only lucky?
4. Because bold predictions rarely come true.

No way around it: If you rely on the fact that bold predictions are unlikely to happen to label a successful prediction as only lucky, then you are relying on a circular argument.

[Collier11]

His prediction is on the level of saying something last year like "Mike Leach will get fired"

Well common sense and logic say, no F'n way he will, he is the most successful coach in TT history.

Well, no one knew that what happened would happen and because of it, he did get fired, right or wrong.

Well in making that prediction I would have no facts or even an intelligent opinion to base it off of, it is just a stupid bold statement but because of crazy circumstances that no one could predict, came true

[Leroy Lizard]

His prediction is on the level of saying something last year like "Mike Leach will get fired"

Well common sense and logic say, no F'n way he will, he is the most successful coach in TT history.

Well, no one knew that what happened would happen and because of it, he did get fired, right or wrong.

Suppose that the Adam James incident had never occurred. How do you know that Leach would not have been fired for some other reason?

Because it wasn't likely? That is hardly fair to the prognosticator. After all, he is predicting that the unlikely will occur.

I understand what you're saying, but the very nature of bold predictions mandates that any success they experience will be attributed to simply luck. Otherwise, they're not bold predictions.

[Collier11]

OK, Leroys belly button will turn into a sunflower this winter...let me know if it comes true :D

[Leroy Lizard]

OK, Leroys belly button will turn into a sunflower this winter...let me know if it comes true :D

And they say that Stats & Probability is boring.

[BoomerJ]

Back to Andre Ware's comments THIS YEAR. He said that Arky has the best receiving corp in the county, the best TE, one of the best O Lines, and QB's. However, does all that matter if Arky goes 7-5 this year. That is my prediction.

[KantoSooner]

Suppose that the Adam James incident had never occurred. How do you know that Leach would not have been fired for some other reason?

Because it wasn't likely? That is hardly fair to the prognosticator. After all, he is predicting that the unlikely will occur.

I understand what you're saying, but the very nature of bold predictions mandates that any success they experience will be attributed to simply luck. Otherwise, they're not bold predictions.

I think the point is that a 'bold prediction' without any reasoning is simply a shot in the dark. Like shouting out '47' whenever a question is asked. At some point, the law of probabilities indicates that you'll be correct. And 1 million monkeys randomly hammering at keyboards will, at some point, write the collected works of William Shakespeare.
Phil Steele predicts, boldly, that OU deserves to be pre-season ranked #1. I think that's pretty effin bold. But he offers his reasoning (if only for a hefty price at my magazine outlet). Ware didn't really offer reasoning. There's a difference. And the difference didn't and doesn't favor Ware's ongoing reputation.
My gut tells me that ND will suck this year; but that has more to do with the fact that I'd like to see South Bend a smoking ruin than with any in-depth analysis. Steele>Kantonsooner. In terms of cogency.

[TopDawg]

Phil Steele's comment isn't a prediction, it's an opinion. If he said "OU will be ranked pre-season #1" that's a prediction. If he says "OU should be ranked pre-season #1" (as you indicated) that's an opinion.

Ware said that he was basing his prediction on Clemson's performance the previous year. They had some very talented skill position players returning on the offensive side of the ball, but only 1 OL. They were pre-season Top 10 but ended up going 7-5. "But they didn't have Sam and Gresham" you might say. Sure, but they play in the ACC.

[goingoneight]

I'm gonna go play Russian Roulette down in my basement. I can tell you I'll survive. I didn't load this gun, I don't know who did. I don't even know how to tell if it is loaded or not. I'm just positive for no logical reason that I'll survive.

I'll be back later on to hear you all acknowledge I was right. This gun is awful heavy... Better only play a few rounds.

[goingoneight]

Back to Andre Ware's comments THIS YEAR. He said that Arky has the best receiving corp in the county, the best TE, one of the best O Lines, and QB's. However, does all that matter if Arky goes 7-5 this year. That is my prediction.

I was right... the gun had blanks in it!

Okay... as for this year's WareTalk:

Ryan Mallet is your typical NFL draftable QB. Big arm to compliment all of the satisfactory measurables. The OL is a pretty cohesive unit and I would assume any QB mentioned for preseason honors has a pretty good receiving corps. That's not so much a prediction as it is an opinion.

Given their time together and numbers returning, we could have a good, big-armed QB challenge Mallet and I'll take Broyles over anyone in the country. Miller and Reynolds are kinda like Mark Bradley and Travis Wilson. Or like Manny Johnson and Juaqin Iglesias... in time they might be NFL guys, but their role is to be consistent complimenting Broyles.

I won't jump on the bandwagon that says OUr OL will be among the nation's elite, though. Improved, I expect... how much is still to be seen. According to players, coaches and other inside sources, it's "dramatic" so far, but meh. We'll see.

Alabama's got a great run-blocking O-Line. It baffles me how they blaze trails for Ingram and Richardson but are so bad at pass protection. That's the easier part! Part of that is McElroy moving laterally instead of up into the pocket to buy time. He *should* improve that. Then again, some never do.

[dmacforheisman]

Are you all superstitious or something? Haha... Andre Ware played Russian Roulette and won with OU in 2009. He had NO WAY in JUNE 2009 of knowing we'd lose...

Sam
Gresh
Numerous linemen

NO WAY did he go on campus and guess that senior wideouts wouldn't be able to catch a cold.

He's buying lottery tickets at best... does anyone outside of Fayetnam know the name of an Arkansas receiver? Let alone all of them?

Mallet is good. The SEC will make him look bad on the big stage.

well since greg childs had similar stats to AJ green in SEC play last year maybe people should get to know him

childs- 48 catches for 897 yards and 7 TDs

joe adams- 29 catches for 568 yards and 7 TDs (missed 3 games)

jarius wright- 41 catches for 681 yards and 5 TDs

cobi hamilton- 19 catches for 347 yards and 3 TDs as a freshman (won texas state track title as a senior in HS)

DJ williams- possibly the best TE in the country...58 catches in 2008

Mallett- 3,627 yards with 30 TDs to only 7 INTs

offensive line returns 4 starters

phil steele says we have the #2 offense in the country and best WRs in the SEC FWIW

[GKeeper316]

They call this begging the question.

You assumed a premise (OU cannot lose four games with Bradford) to prove the premise (OU would not have lost four games if Bradford had played).

yes its an assumpion, but i do not believe OU isnt 1 td better vs byu and miami with sam at qb... i also dont believe we'd have lost the texas game with sam at qb. that means we go into lubbock with no losses. even a loss in lubbock puts us in the ccg.

[Leroy Lizard]

yes its an assumpion, but i do not believe OU isnt 1 td better vs byu and miami with sam at qb... i also dont believe we'd have lost the texas game with sam at qb. that means we go into lubbock with no losses. even a loss in lubbock puts us in the ccg.

Your argument employs the same fallacy as everyone else's.

[GKeeper316]

Your argument employs the same fallacy as everyone else's.

you just sit there with all the phallaces your *** can handle.

[TopDawg]

This is getting slightly off-topic, but what are message boards for...I think we would've been better off with a healthy Gresham than a healthy Bradford.

[Sooner04]

you just sit there with all the phallaces your *** can handle.
You know you're close to winning the debate when......

[Sooner04]

Well shoot, everybody except the people who had us undefeated predicted correctly by that logic. I picked the Sooners to lose 1 game last year. Guess I was right.
Not as close to perfect as Andre was.

[Leroy Lizard]

you just sit there with all the phallaces your *** can handle.

You're one phallic too many.

[DominoMaximo]

The reality is Andre Ware was right about his prediction under the wrong premise. This doesn't make him any more credible than the girl that won an NCAA Basketball bracket who knew nothing about the teams that were playing in the tournament.

Conclusion Andre, like the girl who is a waitress at the diner, used faulty logic to come to the conclusion in which he was correct on.

[Leroy Lizard]

The reality is Andre Ware was right about his prediction under the wrong premise. This doesn't make him any more credible than the girl that won an NCAA Basketball bracket who knew nothing about the teams that were playing in the tournament.

Conclusion Andre, like the girl who is a waitress at the diner, used faulty logic to come to the conclusion in which he was correct on.

That's all fine. But his prediction was not disproven. We can't say "Well, he woulda' been wrong if Bradford hadn't gone down yadda yadda yadda."

[DominoMaximo]

That's all fine. But his prediction was not disproven. We can't say "Well, he woulda' been wrong if Bradford hadn't gone down yadda yadda yadda."

On the same token he cannot say his logic was correct in his correct prediction.

[TopDawg]

He can if he says "Clemson was in a similar situation the year before and had a similar result. Knowing that, I predicted it would happen to OU since they had a tough schedule."

Which he essentially did.

[picasso]

This is getting slightly off-topic, but what are message boards for...I think we would've been better off with a healthy Gresham than a healthy Bradford.

But Andre Ware knew we'd lose both of them due to poor blocking and a tough schedule.

[TopDawg]

We didn't lose Gresham because of either of those things.

I think Ware underestimated our defense but was right about our offense. He knew that we were inexperienced on the o-line and had a tough early schedule (before the o-line could gel). It's not like we trotted out a high-octane offense in the first half against BYU and then when Sam got hurt, all of the wheels came off.

[JLEW1818]

but you still gotta think Sam makes adjustments at half.

and you put in a rookie qb in the first official football game in Jerry World history, unexpectedly

and no Jermaine Gresham

I hate the what "if" peoples.

but god strike me down, I swear we win if Gresham and Sam play 100% healthy against BYU.

[Collier11]

1st of all, I highly doubt Bradford woulda had a Delay of Game on the 1 yd line. There are about 20 other happenings that Bradford woulda made a diff with as well

[DominoMaximo]

He can if he says "Clemson was in a similar situation the year before and had a similar result. Knowing that, I predicted it would happen to OU since they had a tough schedule."

Which he essentially did.

I guess... In my opinion Ware should be thankful OU was severely injury prone last year. I know people on this board don't like the injury excuse but it truly does make a difference especially when you have a returning All American and a Heisman winner coming back. Would have OU won those close games... the world may never know.

I give him credit on the o-line, but good God nobody could have predicted it would have been *THAT* bad.

[DominoMaximo]

1st of all, I highly doubt Bradford woulda had a Delay of Game on the 1 yd line. There are about 20 other happenings that Bradford woulda made a diff with as well

This is exactly my point. :texan:

[picasso]

We didn't lose Gresham because of either of those things.



No ****. I was kidding.:D

[sooneron]

Here's a question that has not been asked. The line was pretty atrocious in the byu game last year - a given, but do they send their best LB on blitzes with JG out on the field? I think rarely. Ware was right, but more of a "sun shines on a dog's *** sometimes" sort of right.

[DominoMaximo]

Here's a question that has not been asked. The line was pretty atrocious in the byu game last year - a given, but do they send their best LB on blitzes with JG out on the field? I think rarely. Ware was right, but more of a "sun shines on a dog's *** sometimes" sort of right.

BINGO!

[IronHorseSooner]

My thoughts exactly. Unless he was Carnac and knew that we would lose those guys, he was talking out of his arse.

[TopDawg]

I'm with you guys...he was lucky. Like I said, I think he was pretty in-tune with the issues we'd have on offense, but way underestimated our defense. If our defense hadn't played so well last year, the offensive injuries wouldn't have looked quite so big because we would've been blown out of some of those games that ended up being close.

He was also lucky we struggled in the kicking game.

So while he was lucky that we were injury prone and struggled with the kicking game, he was unlucky that our defense played so well, which made his prediction look fluke-ish. Either way, he was right and one of the reasons he gave for his prediction (offensive line) played a huge part in his prediction coming true.

[TopDawg]

Regarding what he said this year...did he mean best quarterback, best o-line AND best WR core separately or the best combination of those 3 things?

I find both hard to believe, but the first is MUCH harder to believe.

[Eielson]

Regarding what he said this year...did he mean best quarterback, best o-line AND best WR core separately or the best combination of those 3 things?

I find both hard to believe, but the first is MUCH harder to believe.

If I remember correctly, he said best WR's AND best O-line separately. I'm not sure if he actually said they had the best QB, but he called him one of the top heisman candidates.

[goingoneight]

Let me give you the Andre Ware preseason '09 outlook after the fact:

"Oklahoma struggled offensively, as expected. Jermaine Gresham killed his draft stock after not being thrown the ball... EVER. Sam Bradford clearly couldn't handle the pressure of Nebraska's elevated pressure, as the OU quarterback was hot-and-cold most of the season, tossing 5 picks in one game alone. The Williams, Simmons, Eldridge, Good, Brandon combination was the nation's worst. It totally never improved as the season went on for some reason. Ryan Broyles, for all of his hype, did NOTHING against Miami, Baylor and most of the Texas game. DeMarco Murray was a non-factor in the Kansas game. Yeah, I told you the offensive line was going to make it tough for OU's players to succeed...

[DominoMaximo]

Let me give you the Andre Ware preseason '09 outlook after the fact:

"Oklahoma struggled offensively, as expected. Jermaine Gresham killed his draft stock after not being thrown the ball... EVER. Sam Bradford clearly couldn't handle the pressure of Nebraska's elevated pressure, as the OU quarterback was hot-and-cold most of the season, tossing 5 picks in one game alone. The Williams, Simmons, Eldridge, Good, Brandon combination was the nation's worst. It totally never improved as the season went on for some reason. Ryan Broyles, for all of his hype, did NOTHING against Miami, Baylor and most of the Texas game. DeMarco Murray was a non-factor in the Kansas game. Yeah, I told you the offensive line was going to make it tough for OU's players to succeed...

Let's not forget his prediction on the rotation of kickers!

[Extra Point]

Regarding what he said this year...did he mean best quarterback, best o-line AND best WR core separately or the best combination of those 3 things?

I find both hard to believe, but the first is MUCH harder to believe.

I watch CFL everyday. I'm pretty sure I would have remembered yelling "WTF" at the TV if Andre had said Arkansas' O-line was the best in the nation. It's not. It's a very solid 2-deep, but not even the best in the SEC as a stand-alone unit.

Andre Ware has always been high on Mallett. IMO, one of the primary reasons for Andre's opinion is he thinks Mallett can make certain throws Andre says only a handful of NFL QB's can make (whether Andre's right or wrong is another conversation). From listening to him call Arkansas games last season and comment on CFL, Andre has a very good grasp on Mallett's strengths and weaknesses from last year. I guess he thinks Ryan is going to overcome his weaknesses this fall and find the consistency he lacked at times last year. We shall see.

Arkansas' WR corp does not get the national attention it likely deserves. The SEC and national media can't seem to look past certain super-hyped guys like Julio Jones in the SEC. They all say Arkansas' collection of WR's is great, but never single out any one WR which is why their names are not well known. In SEC games only, Greg Childs led the league in touchdown catches, receiving yards, receiving yards per game and yards per catch (in fairness, AJ Green was hurt part of the year). Childs, Joe Adams, Jarius Wright and Cobi Hamilton all share time equally at WR so no one is going to put up eye popping numbers. Mallett averaged throwing to 8 different receivers per game last year with 12 different receivers catching TD passes (Childs was tops statistically with only 48 receptions, 894 yards, 7 TD's). TE DJ Williams is another reason why so many think the collection of receivers is great, although Mallett grossly underused him last season (Ryan looked deep FAR too often).

The passing offense was 10th nationally last year and the only players not returning from the 2-deep are the starting RG and RB Michael Smith who was injured most of last year. They have a chance to put up some pretty big numbers this year, especially with a more favorable road schedule.

[TopDawg]

Update: Arkansas finished 4th in the nation in passing yards. They were behind Hawaii and a couple of schools from Oklahoma. Childs missed the bowl game...did he miss any others?

Their WRs didn't finish the season very strong. They weren't even the best in the Sugar Bowl.

[85sooners]

:texan: