Inside N. Korea

[SicEmBaylor]

This is a great video series on YouTube that I ran across. It's a group of guys who managed to get into N. Korea as tourists (via China) for about a week. It's absolutely fascinating to watch.

I knew N. Korea was like this, but unless you see it 1st hand it's really hard to imagine how indoctrinated and isolated they truly are. They're going to have a hell of a time adjusting to the reality of the world when communism finally falls.

Here's part 1 of the 14 part series.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6ixGYzbLz0

[JohnnyMack]

I would think you'd use all the footage of isolationism as spank bank material. No?

[SicEmBaylor]

I would think you'd use all the footage of isolationism as spank bank material. No?

That's a totally different kind of isolation. Hell, I never said I didn't want anyone to come or leave this country -- I just don't want them to come here and become permanent citizens/residents. I encourage them to visit and spend their money in the US, and I encourage Americans to get out and see the world. I don't mind that at all.

Keeping everyone out and not allowing anyone in is bat-*** insane.

[Lott's Bandana]

I've seen North Korea through a periscope. Looks remarkably similar to Iran through a periscope.

Wait, I've said too much.

[Leroy Lizard]

I can do better than that:

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-5/North-Korea-Army-Babes.jpg

[Ike]

Keeping everyone out and not allowing anyone in is bat-*** insane.

It's only insane if you aren't trying to convince as many people as you can that you are in fact a god. You don't find it insane because you aren't trying to convince anyone (not that they'd believe you anyway ;) ) of that. Nobody would believe Kim Jong Il either...if it weren't for the fact that he can basically hold them captive there and control what information they have available. If he couldn't do that, North Koreans would laugh at his god-like declarations the same way we laugh at yours (again, note the ;) ). Thus his desire to keep everyone out and not allow anyone in (or out), is perfectly logical. This is a man who truly needs a captive audience.

[Crucifax Autumn]

If Kim was a god he'd show up to the meetings like I do.

[Oldnslo]

Ray, when someone asks if you're a god, you say... "YES!"

[49r]

Better quality version available here:

http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-guide-to-travel/vice-guide-to-north-korea-1-of-3

Series in three parts.

[OklahomaTuba]

It's like a nicer version of Detroit.

[PDXsooner]

Fascinating series. I just watched them all, thanks for posting. There is so much to talk about with this, but somehow it will evolve into political mudslinging (they always do) so I'll refrain.

[Leroy Lizard]

Fascinating series. I just watched them all, thanks for posting. There is so much to talk about with this, but somehow it will evolve into political mudslinging (they always do) so I'll refrain.

Translate: "I love that North Korea government paradigm, but if I say so everyone in here will shout me down."

[PDXsooner]

Translate: "I love that North Korea government paradigm, but if I say so everyone in here will shout me down."

Exactly!

[OklahomaTuba]

Always nice to get a little perspective on where we are heading on the Hopenchange express.


The Perspective Of A Russian Immigrant

When I came to America in 1980 and experienced life in this country, I thought it was fortunate that those living in the USSR did not know how unfortunate they were.

Now in 2009, I realize how unfortunate it is that many Americans do not understand how fortunate they are. They vote to give government more and more power without understanding the consequences...http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=505730

[King Crimson]

Tuba, is that from Yakov Smirnoff?

[SunnySooner]

Anyone remember the Diane Sawyer piece from a few years ago? She was there "officially", saw the "best" of North Korea, and it was still one of the most depressing things I've ever seen. Grocery stores are bare, people walk the streets with their heads down, no one makes eye contact, no one smiles, even the children at the school were like little automaton, scared to death to step out of line.

One thing I remember from that piece...she said everywhere they went, there were no dogs. None. Anywhere. Ugh.

She did say they take satellite pics of the farmworkers in the fields, and can often tell from their faces how bad the starvation situation is, round-cheeked children are a good sign that things have improved.

Such a tragedy on so many levels, imagine if half your family lived in Kansas or somewhere and you knew you'd never see them again, even though they were only a few miles away.

[Leroy Lizard]

Such a tragedy on so many levels, imagine if half your family lived in Kansas or somewhere and you knew you'd never see them again, even though they were only a few miles away.

If you're talking about my Aunt Claire, deal!

[Leroy Lizard]

Came across this image. I call it "Failed Communism"

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/images/dprk-dmsp-dark.jpg

North Korea has an official Web page. It's rather, uhhh, interesting.

http://www.korea-dpr.com/

[SicEmBaylor]

Came across this image. I call it "Failed Communism"

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/images/dprk-dmsp-dark.jpg

North Korea has an official Web page. It's rather, uhhh, interesting.

http://www.korea-dpr.com/

Yep, I've been reading their news website for several years now every now and then for ****s and giggles.

[JohnnyMack]

This thread is predictably pathetic.

[ndpruitt03]

I would love for someone to put forth and example where communism has actually been successful

[Leroy Lizard]

This thread is predictably pathetic.

Sorry to harp on the communism, Johnny. That was insensitive of us.

[yankee]

great series, thanks for posting. i've seen pictures of communism-era cities, but pyongyang takes dreariness to a whole new level. actually, that whole country does.

[SicEmBaylor]

I would love for someone to put forth and example where communism has actually been successful

To be fair, the same can be said of capitalism.

[Leroy Lizard]

Sounds like we have a commie in our midst.

[ndpruitt03]

To be fair, the same can be said of capitalism.
Worked pretty well till we went away from it in the 1930s in the US.

[OklahomaTuba]

To be fair, the same can be said of capitalism.What's sad is there are people who are actually dumb enough to believe statements like this.

[SicEmBaylor]

What's sad is there are people who are actually dumb enough to believe statements like this.

I'm surprised there are people dumb enough to believe that pure absolute capitalism has been tried anymore than pure absolute communism has been tried. I'm assuming that's what we're talking about of course because there are examples of successful real-world/faux communism and capitalism working.

You're the smart guy here evidently, so you give me an example of successful capitalism.

[Lott's Bandana]

I'm surprised there are people dumb enough to believe that pure absolute capitalism has been tried anymore than pure absolute communism has been tried. I'm assuming that's what we're talking about of course because there are examples of successful real-world/faux communism and capitalism working.

You're the smart guy here evidently, so you give me an example of successful capitalism.


WalMart?

[SicEmBaylor]

WalMart?

We're not talking about individual businesses. We're talking a country, nation, society, etc. that has successfully implemented pure communism or capitalism.

[Leroy Lizard]

We're not talking about individual businesses. We're talking a country, nation, society, etc. that has successfully implemented pure communism or capitalism.

Capitalism has the ability to incorporate measures to accommodate its weaknesses. All communism can do is shoot its own people.

Capitalism, good! Communism, bad!

[Lott's Bandana]

We're not talking about individual businesses. We're talking a country, nation, society, etc. that has successfully implemented pure communism or capitalism.


I was joking.

Actually I am a moron when it comes to socio-economic establishments and structure, having been in the military for so long.

But I am enjoying this thread so I gave it a mini-bump.

[SicEmBaylor]

I was joking.

Actually I am a moron when it comes to socio-economic establishments and structure, having been in the military for so long.

But I am enjoying this thread so I gave it a mini-bump.

Well, my point isn't to defend communism. My only point is that there hasn't been a country or society on Earth implement some pure form of capitalism anymore than there has been one to implement a pure form of communism.

[Lott's Bandana]

Well, my point isn't to defend communism. My only point is that there hasn't been a country or society on Earth implement some pure form of capitalism anymore than there has been one to implement a pure form of communism.


Would it even be possible at this point? Isn't the economy now too global to support such a black hole?

[ndpruitt03]

I don't know if we've had a form of pure capitalism but America has prospured because of it's free market capitalism. And it has been down when we've put more limits on that capitalism like in the late 20s through the 40s. Right now and since the early or mid 2000s. Late 70s. When we've tried to socialize the economy more we've ran into more trouble.

[SicEmBaylor]

I don't know if we've had a form of pure capitalism but America has prospured because of it's free market capitalism. And it has been down when we've put more limits on that capitalism like in the late 20s through the 40s. Right now and since the early or mid 2000s. Late 70s. When we've tried to socialize the economy more we've ran into more trouble.

Really, what limits did we put on capitalism in the 20's?? I think you're about a decade off because the 20s weren't exactly known as a period of government expansion.

In any case, we've never had true free market capitalism in this country. The country wasn't even built on it. Hell, the entire government was intended to be funded primarily through tariffs which are hardly the tools of building a free-market society.

[SicEmBaylor]

Capitalism is certainly better than the alternatives, but keep in mind that capitalism isn't necessarily good for or compatible with conservatism. This is my biggest problem with the free-market.

[soonerscuba]

Really, what limits did we put on capitalism in the 20's?? I think you're about a decade off because the 20s weren't exactly known as a period of government expansion.

In any case, we've never had true free market capitalism in this country. The country wasn't even built on it. Hell, the entire government was intended to be funded primarily through tariffs which are hardly the tools of building a free-market society.You do realize you're dealing with someone who actually believes the latter half of the 20th century wasn't an economic success for the United States, correct?

[tommieharris91]

Really, what limits did we put on capitalism in the 20's?? I think you're about a decade off because the 20s weren't exactly known as a period of government expansion.

In any case, we've never had true free market capitalism in this country. The country wasn't even built on it. Hell, the entire government was intended to be funded primarily through tariffs which are hardly the tools of building a free-market society.

And as long as the US uses a currency, we never will.

[tommieharris91]

I don't know if we've had a form of pure capitalism but America has prospured because of it's free market capitalism. And it has been down when we've put more limits on that capitalism like in the late 20s through the 40s. Right now and since the early or mid 2000s. Late 70s. When we've tried to socialize the economy more we've ran into more trouble.

Just wondering, who were the presidents during the 20s?

[ndpruitt03]

I wasn't talking about Harding or Coolidge. They cut taxes, cut spending more than anyone and led to a prosperous decade. Hoover was a reformer and progressive that started to spend money on the market trying to fix it. Hoover did do a good job when he was in the cabinets of Harding and Coolidge but they made sure he stayed out of the economy because both of those 2 wanted to let the economy alone. Now he took over as president and tried to reform and fix the economy. And that's when the market fell apart and he tried to spend and save the market all he could but nothing worked. Then FDR came in and the same thing unemployment really didn't change that much. It was in the high teens or early 20s at best for most of the 30s and early 40s. There's quotes from FDRs main economy guys saying 8 years in that they have spent so much and haven't fixed a thing.

[SicEmBaylor]

I wasn't talking about Harding or Coolidge. They cut taxes, cut spending more than anyone and led to a prosperous decade. Hoover was a reformer and progressive that started to spend money on the market trying to fix it. And that's when the market fell apart and he tried to spend and save the market all he could but nothing worked. Then FDR came in and the same thing unemployment really didn't change that much. It was in the high teens or early 20s at best for most of the 30s and early 40s.

Hoover's early market reforms were very very minor compared to what we consider government regulation of the economy today. Hoover's reforms had nothing to do with the economic collapse.

I do, however, agree that Hoover's post-collapse reforms along with FDR's did nothing to fix the fundamental problems of the economy though they were local fixes that did provide relief and benefit. That much is fairly undeniable in my book.

[ndpruitt03]

I think if anything the market collapse was just going to happen. It seems like we always have market collapses once a decade. Not all of them lead to depressions. The only in 87 comes to mind. That one didn't really lead to a depression or recession. But the actions after the market is what lead to the depression.

I kinda see the bank bailout as the same way. If we let those companies go bankrupt it would have been better in the long run because the guys that would have had people replace those guys that would be afraid to go bankrupt and lose their money. Now it's even more corrupt because those banks are just doing the same corrupt stuff and will get bailed out for it as long as they are in the government's pockets. To me just let them go bankrupt if they don't like it don't do what you are doing. Eventually the government won't be able to pay for all these banks.

[tommieharris91]

I do, however, agree that Hoover's post-collapse reforms along with FDR's did nothing to fix the fundamental problems of the economy though they were local fixes that did provide relief and benefit. That much is fairly undeniable in my book.

I can agree with this, and no president can fully fix the fundamental problem that plagued the economy during that time or this time.

[Leroy Lizard]

I think if anything the market collapse was just going to happen. It seems like we always have market collapses once a decade. Not all of them lead to depressions. The only in 87 comes to mind. That one didn't really lead to a depression or recession. But the actions after the market is what lead to the depression.

I kinda see the bank bailout as the same way. If we let those companies go bankrupt it would have been better in the long run because the guys that would have had people replace those guys that would be afraid to go bankrupt and lose their money. Now it's even more corrupt because those banks are just doing the same corrupt stuff and will get bailed out for it as long as they are in the government's pockets. To me just let them go bankrupt if they don't like it don't do what you are doing. Eventually the government won't be able to pay for all these banks.

Good times and bad times come and go. This one would have had as well. What we didn't need was to use the economy as an excuse to install a expansive socialist program.

[ndpruitt03]

I think that's basically what I said, but you said it better.