Questions for soccer fans

[jkjsooner]

This isn't a thread to ridicule soccer. We already have that on the football board and the south oval where they belong. ;-)

What can be done about the prevalence of ties in the game. (Or does something need to be done?)

My suggestion is to reduce the number of players ever 5 minutes or so in a sudden death overtime. You wouldn't go down to 2 on 2 (including goalie) but even reducing by 3 max would probably open up the game significantly.

While purists might find it ridiculous isn't it better than a shootout (which I know isn't liked either)? It would still showcase all of the skills of the game even if in an altered format.

I don't begin to understand the nuances of soccer so this suggestion might be absurd.

Frankly, I'd love to see a game where the size of the goal is reduced and the goalie is removed. Hockey would be fun like that as well.

[illinisooner]

This isn't a thread to ridicule soccer. We already have that on the football board and the south oval where they belong. ;-)

What can be done about the prevalence of ties in the game. (Or does something need to be done?)

My suggestion is to reduce the number of players ever 5 minutes or so in a sudden death overtime. You wouldn't go down to 2 on 2 (including goalie) but even reducing by 3 max would probably open up the game significantly.

While purists might find it ridiculous isn't it better than a shootout (which I know isn't liked either)? It would still showcase all of the skills of the game even if in an altered format.

I don't begin to understand the nuances of soccer so this suggestion might be absurd.

Frankly, I'd love to see a game where the size of the goal is reduced and the goalie is removed. Hockey would be fun like that as well.

Ties are a fair result in soccer because the quality of play significantly drops off after 90 (or 120, if applicable) minutes and if you played till someone scored, it might be three hours later and only because someone passed out and let a goal in. A shootout is cruel, but it's the best way to decide a tie. Should this happen after every tie? No, it's not going to happen in a regular season. Just "deciding" games, like in a knockout tournament or whatever. Personally, I don't like the idea of reducing the number of players or anything like that.

The problem is that alot of Americans just don't accept that ties are a good way to decide a game. That's because football and basketball are high scoring sports where just a few extra minutes can likely decide the outcome. Baseball isn't as high scoring, but you rarely see extra innings going beyond two or three innings. Another problem is that we're not used to seeing ties. The rest of the world is. Having been a big soccer fan for the better part of a decade, I'm used to them and don't see the big deal about how there "has to be a winner" in every game.

[MrKurt]

There are really two kinds of ties: 0-0 affairs that are boring as hell, and dynamic games that are ridiculously exciting (see the US - Slovenia game).

Eliminating ties wouldn't necessarily improve the quality of those 0-0 games that are excruciating to watch. And I don't know that killing ties would make super competitive, exciting games better.

So I guess I'm ok with ties!

[tulsaoilerfan]

1 Make the goals bigger
2. Do away with the stupid offsides rule
3. Less players on the field
4. Don't give any points for a tie; maybe then teams might be trying harder to win

[Curly Bill]

1 Make the goals bigger
2. Do away with the stupid offsides rule
3. Less players on the field
4. Don't give any points for a tie; maybe then teams might be trying harder to win

I'm down with #2 all the way. If there's a dumber rule in all of sports I'm not sure what it is.

[tommieharris91]

This isn't a thread to ridicule soccer. We already have that on the football board and the south oval where they belong. ;-)

What can be done about the prevalence of ties in the game. (Or does something need to be done?)

My suggestion is to reduce the number of players ever 5 minutes or so in a sudden death overtime. You wouldn't go down to 2 on 2 (including goalie) but even reducing by 3 max would probably open up the game significantly.

While purists might find it ridiculous isn't it better than a shootout (which I know isn't liked either)? It would still showcase all of the skills of the game even if in an altered format.

I don't begin to understand the nuances of soccer so this suggestion might be absurd.

Frankly, I'd love to see a game where the size of the goal is reduced and the goalie is removed. Hockey would be fun like that as well.

Actually, this suggestion isn't absurd at all. A lot of soccer fans around the world would like a better way of determining winners and losers than penalty kicks (which is how it's done in playoff situations, even in World Cup knockout rounds). You're not the first to suggest taking players off to open up the game a bit more. Heck, the NHL regular season OT is 4-on-4 for 5:00.

Removing the goalkeeper just turns the game into basketball though.

[tommieharris91]

1 Make the goals bigger
2. Do away with the stupid offsides rule
3. Less players on the field
4. Don't give any points for a tie; maybe then teams might be trying harder to win

As for on-the-field stuff, FIFA does pretty well despite what Americans say about soccer. They won't change offside rules, widen the goals, change the number of players on the field from 11, or change rules regarding ties anytime soon.

[silverwheels]

The offside rule is in place to keep teams from cherry-picking. Up until like U-12 or whatever, there is no offside, so some teams keep one player up the field and wait for the counter-attack. It's lame. I know it's nit-picking when an attacker is 1 step offside, but it has to be called all the way or not at all, and I'd prefer it to be called all the way.

Ties are almost necessary in the group stage. You can't let games go on forever, and penalties are a cheap way to win and a crappy way to lose. They're only implemented in the knockout rounds because someone has to win and you don't want the game to last for 4 hours. I wish there would be some sort of punishment for poor play or bunkering down resulting in a scoreless draw, but then you'd have to apply it to every draw, when some are exciting and can do a lot for one or both of the teams.

It's not perfect, but it is what it is. I can't think of a way to address those issues without compromising the game. I'm more concerned with the diving and simulation, quality of refereeing, and match fixing.

[TUSooner]

In order to encourage more wide open play, I'd change the point system to something like this:
win - 5 pts
draw (with goals) - 2 pts (maybe give 3 points if it's a 2-2 or higher scoring draw)
goalless draw - 1 point

[TUSooner]

****
It's not perfect, but it is what it is. I can't think of a way to address those issues without compromising the game. I'm more concerned with the diving and simulation, quality of refereeing, and match fixing.
This. FIFA needs to open its eyes and look at video evidence of fakers and cheap foulers just like the rest of us do. A retroactive red card w/ future suspension & fine would put a quick stop to lots of crap.

[GrapevineSooner]

Frankly, I'd love to see a game where the size of the goal is reduced and the goalie is removed. Hockey would be fun like that as well.

No.

It would not.

I don't know if this was tongue in cheek or not. But goaltending is a vital component to each sport. If you remove the goaltender from the equation at all times, it ceases to be hockey or soccer.

[badger]

The way to stop ties is to do what they do in later rounds - have kickoffs to determine the winner. They did something similar in hockey to eliminate ties there.

The things is... the soccer world doesn't seem to care if there's ties or not. The NHL had to lockout and were having declining interest from fans so they had to do something to alter the game. Soccer, on the other hand, is still the most popular sport in the world.

[jkjsooner]

No.

It would not.

I don't know if this was tongue in cheek or not. But goaltending is a vital component to each sport. If you remove the goaltender from the equation at all times, it ceases to be hockey or soccer.

It was half tongue in cheek. I personally feel that a goalie takes away from hockey as a great goalie can fully compensate for mediocre defensive play by everyone else. That's less of a concern for soccer. A soccer goalie can hardly compensate for poor defensive play by everyone else.

I recognize it would cease to be the same game. Indoor soccer isn't the same game but people love it.

[GrapevineSooner]

It was half tongue in cheek. I personally feel that a goalie takes away from hockey as a great goalie can fully compensate for mediocre defensive play by everyone else. That's less of a concern for soccer. A soccer goalie can hardly compensate for poor defensive play by everyone else.

I recognize it would cease to be the same game. Indoor soccer isn't the same game but people love it.

Gotcha :)

[badger]

It was half tongue in cheek. I personally feel that a goalie takes away from hockey as a great goalie can fully compensate for mediocre defensive play by everyone else. That's less of a concern for soccer. A soccer goalie can hardly compensate for poor defensive play by everyone else.

I recognize it would cease to be the same game. Indoor soccer isn't the same game but people love it.

It seems that something that really hurts goalies in both hockey and soccer is when teammates try to help too much and end up blocking their view... that if they were able to see the puck/ball coming, they wouldn't have blocked the goal, no problem.

I wish that the hockey goal was larger... higher and wider, like a soccer goal. we'd see scoreboards light up more than if mlb switched to aluminum bats :D

[tommieharris91]

It seems that something that really hurts goalies in both hockey and soccer is when teammates try to help too much and end up blocking their view... that if they were able to see the puck/ball coming, they wouldn't have blocked the goal, no problem.


And it's not like the offensive players don't know this. It's done quite a lot in hockey, but mostly because the offsides rule is different and allows the guy standing in front of the goalie to be a player who can deflect a shot with his stick and score.

[Jboozer]

Another thing to think about is the length of the season and number of games. The best teams play in many more games than the lower league teams. If you play every game out you are preying on the fitness of the better teams. It would give a big advantage (like there already is) for teams that don't qualify for the Champions League and other tournaments. Ties also add a different dynamic to the game. It allows smaller clubs with less money to play with the big boys. Any club in england can become a professional team if they win the right amateaur leage titles, and potentially (not likely) work their way up the ranks. Ties allow a team to gain a valuable point against a team that they couldn't beat, and it separtates the best teams(that can win) to the good teams (who can only draw).

[badger]

Speaking of hockey and soccer, I was telling NP that they need to screw tradition and get a bigger World Cup trophy, something on par with the Stanley Cup, so that you really have to power lift it and not just wave it around like the Staue of Liberty's torch.

Or perhaps, keep the trophy's size and shape and make the round ball at the top a removable crystal soccer ball.. maybe make the ball the size of a regulation soccer ball. Then, players and coaches can lift the crystal ball just like college football.

Hmm...

[TUSooner]

Speaking of hockey and soccer, I was telling NP that they need to screw tradition and get a bigger World Cup trophy, something on par with the Stanley Cup, so that you really have to power lift it and not just wave it around like the Staue of Liberty's torch.

Or perhaps, keep the trophy's size and shape and make the round ball at the top a removable crystal soccer ball.. maybe make the ball the size of a regulation soccer ball. Then, players and coaches can lift the crystal ball just like college football.

Hmm...

The Jules Rimet trophy is made of gold at least (75%). But it is the ugliest trophy I've ever seen.


The trophy stands 36.5 centimetres (14.4 inches) tall and is made of 5 kg (11 lb) of 18 carat (75%) gold with a base (13 centimetres [5.1 inches] in diameter) containing two layers of malachite. It has been asserted that the trophy is hollow; if, as is claimed, it was solid, the trophy would weigh 70-80 kg and would be too heavy to lift.[9][10] Produced by Bertoni, Milano, it weighs 6.175 kg (13.6 lb) in total and depicts two human figures holding up the Earth. Gazzaniga described the trophy thus, "The lines spring out from the base, rising in spirals, stretching out to receive the world. From the remarkable dynamic tensions of the compact body of the sculpture rise the figures of two athletes at the stirring moment of victory."
It seems the original was stolen from Brazil in 1983
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup_Trophy

[GottaHavePride]

In order to encourage more wide open play, I'd change the point system to something like this:
win - 5 pts
draw (with goals) - 2 pts (maybe give 3 points if it's a 2-2 or higher scoring draw)
goalless draw - 1 point


But doesn't having goal differential and then goals for as the first two tiebreakers already reward teams more for higher-scoring draws?

[TUSooner]

But doesn't having goal differential and then goals for as the first two tiebreakers already reward teams more for higher-scoring draws?

Well, yeah, but this would do it better, I think, because it would apply to each individual game rather than rewarding a team for a blowout or two mixed in with a whole bunch of duds in the course of a tournament or season.

That's why my system has been adopted world wide! :rolleyes: :O

[rainiersooner]

1 Make the goals bigger
2. Do away with the stupid offsides rule
3. Less players on the field
4. Don't give any points for a tie; maybe then teams might be trying harder to win

If you did away with offsides, defenders wouldn't venture forward and the game would, ironically, be a lot less exciting.