Did Pac-10 get royally screwed?

[King Barry's Back]

There are SO MANY issues in this whole MESS that need to be analysed, but here's only one.

Did the Pac-10 get royally screwed? I don't mean by TX, OU and others not accepting bids -- that was clearly a screw job.

I mean by the Colorado bid.

Colorado has been kind of open-secretly lobbying for the Pac-10 FOR YEARS -- since the Big 8 days, even.

I always thought it was mainly a ploy to get more influence in the Big 8 and Big XII, but maybe not.

Anyway, so CU gets what they want.

But when they got the early bid, my interpretation was that the Pac-10 only wanted CU as part of a matched set of Big XII teams, but because of Baylor's maneuverings, the Pac 10 had to move to offer Colorado early.

Now, CU is in, and there is nothing that the Pac 10 can do about it. They now have an unwieldy 11 team format, and will be under pressure to expand further.

Wierd.

What really worries me is that now we are stuck in this catastrophic farm belt conference, that is unlikely to survive much over 5 years, and the golden Pac-10 parachute won't be there next time.

[Collier11]

They got F'd in the A by teams turning them down but those teams had no obligation to them either


Ive been saying though, I think that one of the reasons that OU was so quiet even though they were an obvious power broker was so they didnt burn bridges on either side

[King Barry's Back]

They got F'd in the A by teams turning them down but those teams had no obligation to them either


Ive been saying though, I think that one of the reasons that OU was so quiet even though they were an obvious power broker was so they didnt burn bridges on either side

Just trying to clarify -- Pac-10 got screwed IF they extended the invitation to CU on the condition that TX, et al; was going to accept a few days later.

IF the Pac-10 really wanted CU, then they didn't get screwed.

However, since CU has never gotten a bid in all these years of begging makes me think there's more to it.

I am wondering if TX engineered the whole thing because they were tired of having CU and NU in the conference, for whatever reason.

[Collier11]

If the Pac 10 had gotten some kind of verbal pledge from the other Big 12 teams then they got screwed, I dont know that they did though

[sooner n houston]

No, the Big XII did!

[BIG_IKE]

Guys,

What PAc-10 Parachute???

The Big 12 played in 7 BCS title Games this Decade.

2000,2001,2003,2004,2005,2008,2009...
TRhe PAc-10 played in Two. 2004 and 2005.


And you guys ARE aware that we made more money than the Pac-10 in TV Revenue right???


So CU is going to a Conference that made LESS moeny, that is going to be split with MORE people??? Hmmm....


I say we do just fine as a Conference, and scheduling will be better because everyone has to play everyone now.


We just DOUBLED the ENTIRE Conferences TV Revenue AND..CU and NU have to pay exit fees.

[King Barry's Back]

Guys,

What PAc-10 Parachute???

The Big 12 played in 7 BCS title Games this Decade.

2000,2001,2003,2004,2005,2008,2009...
TRhe PAc-10 played in Two. 2004 and 2005.


And you guys ARE aware that we made more money than the Pac-10 in TV Revenue right???


So CU is going to a Conference that made LESS moeny, that is going to be split with MORE people??? Hmmm....


I say we do just fine as a Conference, and scheduling will be better because everyone has to play everyone now.


We just DOUBLED the ENTIRE Conferences TV Revenue AND..CU and NU have to pay exit fees.

That's putting a happy face on it. I hope you are right, but I just don't see it.

Regarding the Pac 10 -- it's not what they make alone, it's what we all would make when Oklahoma (and TX) football has a new relevance in the big TV markets of LA, SF and SD. And Seattle and Portland. And Walla Walla, for that matter.

[soonervegas]

Just trying to clarify -- Pac-10 got screwed IF they extended the invitation to CU on the condition that TX, et al; was going to accept a few days later.

IF the Pac-10 really wanted CU, then they didn't get screwed.

However, since CU has never gotten a bid in all these years of begging makes me think there's more to it.

I am wondering if TX engineered the whole thing because they were tired of having CU and NU in the conference, for whatever reason.

This is exactly how I see it. All this money would have been available with CU and NU in the league coupled with a little humility from Texas. Texas didn't want that.....

[Boomer Mooner]

That's putting a happy face on it. I hope you are right, but I just don't see it.

Regarding the Pac 10 -- it's not what they make alone, it's what we all would make when Oklahoma (and TX) football has a new relevance in the big TV markets of LA, SF and SD. And Seattle and Portland. And Walla Walla, for that matter.

Compared to a guaranteed $20 million a year and the option to create our network if we see fit. No brainer to me.

[Boomer Mooner]

This is exactly how I see it. All this money would have been available with CU and NU in the league coupled with a little humility from Texas. Texas didn't want that.....

Nebraska was going no matter what, the only thing we could control was how we responded to it. CU is irrelevant, the chicken feathers the PAC 10 ended up with instead of the chicken.

If CU and NU stayed we would not have gotten the tv deal we did. The only reason we got it was to keep Mega-Conference mania from happening which would have really cost the networks out the ***. Instead, the Big 12 gets a nice 100% increase in money and the PAC 10 gets the same thing as last year plus a new little brother to feed.

[A-M]

Let me see,
OU gets more TV money
doesn't have to pay more money to play away games on the west coast
conference still gets BCS bowl game
play one less game to be conference champs
Gets exit money from CU & NU
fan base won't have to either stay at home to watch late game or spend bigger bucks for west coast games.

Sounds like OU came out the winner on this deal.

[SoonerMom2]

They got F'd in the A by teams turning them down but those teams had no obligation to them either


Ive been saying though, I think that one of the reasons that OU was so quiet even though they were an obvious power broker was so they didnt burn bridges on either side

In a stream of hysteria, you are the voice of reason. I think you nailed it. Considering we were one of three schools to get the big pay outs versus the other seven, OU was not silent in the meetings. President Boren knew enough to keep his mouth shut and let Texas take the brunt of this fallout as they are the ones that made the promises to the PAC 10 so that the PAC 10 felt free to hand out invites and invite Colorado ahead of time.

[OklahomaTuba]

We came out great in this deal. CU and the Pac-10 got screwed. Nebraska will be begging to come back in a few years once they realize the Big-10 doesn't really give two ****s about them.

And i'm sure getting $20 Million from schools having budget problems will sit well with their voters and such as well.

[ric311]

The Pac just wrapped up every major TV market west of Kansas, and you think they got screwed?

The Pac now controls 6 of the top 16 media markets in the country. The Pac will do very well, with or without the whorns.

BTW - I like the "chicken feathers" comment. Funny. Apparently, it hasn't sunk in yet why the Pac wanted CU in the first place. Given CU's recent athletic ineptitude, it clearly had nothing to do with CU's on-field/court performance. Maybe it had something to do with the 5 million + television sets in the state of Colorado. Naaaaah. Couldn't be that.

[rawlingsHOH]

Yes, the Pac 10 shot for the moon and inadvertently drug themselves a hole. Now they have a Colorado program that they will more or less have to subsidize. Not sure the Denver market was worth it.

[OklahomaTuba]

Wait, you mean the half empty folsom field didn't seal the deal???

Face it, even most of CU itself doesn't give a **** about CU football, much less the rest of the state.

CU is deadwood, and we are a better conference for not having them.

[King Barry's Back]

Wait, you mean the half empty folsom field didn't seal the deal???

Face it, even most of CU itself doesn't give a **** about CU football, much less the rest of the state.

CU is deadwood, and we are a better conference for not having them.

I don't know about that.

Granted, i am still suffering depression/shock from the fallout of the last few days, but Nebraska and Colorado look like the premier programs of the North, to me.

Granted, the rest of the North are very slim pickens, but you get my point.

To those of you arguing that OU came out the winner in all this -- I am just going to say that you could be right. But I can't get over all those dollars flowing from CA, WA, OR and AZ -- not to mention CO -- into OU's athletic department. When ever I thought about those cable subscribers tuning in to the Pac 16 network, I got goose bumps. That's security and stability for decades. Oh, well.

In the BCS era, OU has has benefitted greatly from it's association with a power conference.

I just hope that holds up in the coming area of the "Big XII" as a middling conference.

[olevetonahill]

Who GAS about the pac?
theres only ONE team i care about out there and thats Mikes Cats
F--- the rest of em .

[madillsoonerfan5353]

I think we got screwed! From what I understand you have to have 12 teams to have a CCG and now we have 10 starting next fall? Let's face it, if it wasn't for the big 12 cg we would of been left out in '08? I think we made a bad choice throwing OUr lot in with Saxet? IDK :gary:


:pop:

[Bourbon St Sooner]

The Pac just wrapped up every major TV market west of Kansas, and you think they got screwed?

The Pac now controls 6 of the top 16 media markets in the country. The Pac will do very well, with or without the whorns.

BTW - I like the "chicken feathers" comment. Funny. Apparently, it hasn't sunk in yet why the Pac wanted CU in the first place. Given CU's recent athletic ineptitude, it clearly had nothing to do with CU's on-field/court performance. Maybe it had something to do with the 5 million + television sets in the state of Colorado. Naaaaah. Couldn't be that.

The Pac 10 already had every major West Coast market and they were still making less money than the hayseed B12. Do you really think the Pac 10 was targeting Colorado in this thing? You guys were a means to an end. They need a national product (OU and TX), but with USC taking it in the pooper, they have a west coast product at best.

[badger]

The Pac just wrapped up every major TV market west of Kansas, and you think they got screwed?

The Pac now controls 6 of the top 16 media markets in the country. The Pac will do very well, with or without the whorns.

BTW - I like the "chicken feathers" comment. Funny. Apparently, it hasn't sunk in yet why the Pac wanted CU in the first place. Given CU's recent athletic ineptitude, it clearly had nothing to do with CU's on-field/court performance. Maybe it had something to do with the 5 million + television sets in the state of Colorado. Naaaaah. Couldn't be that.

Colorado doesn't care about CU athletics, that's the flaw in your logic. You guys have trouble selling out home football games and keeping your students from throwing CU t-shirts on the field at your Homecoming blowouts (not to mention the marshmallows). Your pregame announcer has to remind you to cheer for the Buffs before the game and how to spell "Colorado" because nobody cares about the CU band.

Need I go on, or should I also point out how many times CU fans failed to travel to Big 12 football championship games?

[King Barry's Back]

Need I go on, or should I also point out how many times CU fans failed to travel to Big 12 football championship games?

Yeah, Baj, but to be fair -- by the time the Big XII Championship game rolled around, ski season was already open. Who is LEAVING Colorado at that point?

[badger]

they didn't travel to norman or any other away game that i could see, regardless of when it happened. they suck as a fanbase, and I'm not just saying that because they're moving to the Pac-11. if they didn't support their team in person, i doubt that even a fraction of the 5 mil TV sets in Colorado tuned in to CU events. The Denver market? Ha! They'd probably rather watch John Elway highlights from the glory years rather than CU winning the Big 12 in 2001.

[SunnySooner]

It's all just a crapshoot. I don't feel exactly "relieved" by how it's all shaken out, but I can tell you after living on the West Coast for several years, I don't think there's much of a new TV market to be had in places like Seattle, Portland, or San Diego. Those people just do not GAS about CFB. They just don't. So, maybe we could have helped ourselves with recruits from those areas, but as far as increasing our TV bargaining power and negotiating better contracts because we now have the San Fran market--don't see it. It's hard to explain to diehard Sooners because college football is such a huge thread in the tapestry of being an Okie, but after living allover the place, only Florida and the SE care as much about it as we do. And that's even North FL, South FL doesn't care either. In the NW and Cali, they just don't follow it all that closely, and often can be found on Saturdays in the fall doing a lot of things that are not watching college football games.

[badger]

Washington and Oregon fans love football. They traveled in droves to Norman and to the Holiday Bowl in 2005 when we faced them. The other Pac teams we've met lately, USC and UCLA, didn't show up en masse to the bowl or to home-and-home games really. Not sure on Stanford. Wasn't there.

[Mississippi Sooner]

Others have said the same thing, but since I've had family in Denver for almost 40 years, I'll just reiterate it. Denver is a pro-sports town all the way. They were willing to sell their souls to get a major league baseball team. They live and die by the Broncos. However, in the time I've spent there, it seems like the Buffs are barely a blip on the radar, proportionally speaking. If the Pac-10 thinks this will gain a lot more in terms of tv ratings for their conference, I think they are going to be in for a big surprise.

[soonerboomer93]

Let me see,
OU gets
play one less game to be conference champs
.

sniped down, but we had 7 conferance game, now moving to 9.

So we lose 2 OOC games, and the +1 conferance championship game.

[soonerboomer93]

Others have said the same thing, but since I've had family in Denver for almost 40 years, I'll just reiterate it. Denver is a pro-sports town all the way. They were willing to sell their souls to get a major league baseball team. They live and die by the Broncos. However, in the time I've spent there, it seems like the Buffs are barely a blip on the radar, proportionally speaking. If the Pac-10 thinks this will gain a lot more in terms of tv ratings for their conference, I think they are going to be in for a big surprise.

Yup, I was born and raised in the Denver Metro. The buffs got a little attention when they won that NC. Denver has 10 "professional sports" teams, including the big 4. CU is not even a pimple on the Broncos *** when it comes to sports in Denver.

[soonerboomer93]

I don't know about that.

Granted, i am still suffering depression/shock from the fallout of the last few days, but Nebraska and Colorado look like the premier programs of the North, to me.

Granted, the rest of the North are very slim pickens, but you get my point.


atleast KU can afford to buy out a coach, CU can't even do that.

[ric311]

Colorado doesn't care about CU athletics, that's the flaw in your logic. You guys have trouble selling out home football games and keeping your students from throwing CU t-shirts on the field at your Homecoming blowouts (not to mention the marshmallows). Your pregame announcer has to remind you to cheer for the Buffs before the game and how to spell "Colorado" because nobody cares about the CU band.

Need I go on, or should I also point out how many times CU fans failed to travel to Big 12 football championship games?

You're still under the impression that all this had to do with on-field athletics?

BTW - CU averaged over 50,000 in attendance in a year they went 3-9. I'd say that was pretty good. But by all means, please continue with your uninformed rantings. Obviously, you're privy to so much, being so close to the situation in Boulder.

It's a fallacy to believe that this move was about making CU more competitive on the field. I'm under no illusions that CU's football team stinks on ice. Until Hawkins is fired, CU will continue to be a horrible football team. The move to the Pac will not magically turn Hawk into a competent head football coach. CU has over 40,000 alumni in California alone. CU makes a lot of money from out-of-state tuition. There are more out-of-state students from California than any other state. This move was about connecting to the west coast AND ridding ourselves of UT's overbearing influence. CU doesn't need to have Deloss Dodds dictating to us how much we'll receive from any new contracts. I thought OU would have the same opinion. Clearly, I was wrong.

[ric311]

atleast KU can afford to buy out a coach, CU can't even do that.

False. CU had plenty of money to buy out Hawkins. Keeping him was a political move dictated by the President of the University, not the Athletic Director. But believe whatever you want to believe. Hawk will be gone at the end of this season. His buyout won't be that much less than it was last year.

[rawlingsHOH]

sniped down, but we had 7 conferance game, now moving to 9.

So we lose 2 OOC games, and the +1 conferance championship game.

we had 8, moving to 9

we lose 1 OOC game, add 1 conference game, lose 1 CCG.

[XingTheRubicon]

Let's have a moratorium on "6 of the top 16 markets," etc. When 8 out of 10 people in LA do not know how many points you get for a field goal, IDGAS how many people live there. It's about the saturation of those markets, not just numbers.

Also, if Colorado has 5 million households, I'll eat my hand.

[XingTheRubicon]

Yeah, 5 million...or less than 2.

http://www.americantowns.com/co

[Dio]

Let's have a moratorium on "6 of the top 16 markets," etc. When 8 out of 10 people in LA do not know how many points you get for a field goal, IDGAS how many people live there. It's about the saturation of those markets, not just numbers.

Also, if Colorado has 5 million households, I'll eat my hand.

8 out of 10 people in LA prolly care more about Futbol than FOOTBALL

Or the Lakers (shudder)

[badger]

You're still under the impression that all this had to do with on-field athletics?

BTW - CU averaged over 50,000 in attendance in a year they went 3-9. I'd say that was pretty good. But by all means, please continue with your uninformed rantings. Obviously, you're privy to so much, being so close to the situation in Boulder.
Uninformed rantings? I clearly stated that you had trouble selling out your stadium, not on how many thousands you had in attendance during your 3-9 season. Your stadium capacity is 53k, and we all know that capacity numbers are under estimated and that top programs routinely have above-capacity in attendance. The last time you had a sellout was 2005, when there was 54k in attendace for the CSU game.

I can understand you wanted to defend your beloved Buffs, I'd do the same for OU, but IMHO, your football fanbase has been unimpressive lately, even when you're competing for Big 12 championships, even when top 25 opponents come to town, even when your team is winning. It's sad.

[sooner_born_1960]

The obvious answer to the original question is, "yes". The pac10 invited Colorado, only to block Baylor.

[goingoneight]

we had 8, moving to 9

we lose 1 OOC game, add 1 conference game, lose 1 CCG.

With the national "Texas and the little 9" perception, the way I see us continuing to contend at least in the current state of OU football is in a schedule like this year's, we drop Utah State. Last year, Idaho State. We're paying those schools to embarass both of our universities for playing them.

Let's say 2010 is this first year without NU and CU:

With no CCG to vault us up a few spots like in 2008 when we needed to provide a tad more evidence for the voters, we need a schedule that looks like this:

OU vs AFA + OU vs FSU + OU @ UC = Enough SOS points with even a 2-1 record to make you a legit contender coming into conference play.

OU/TX, one of the premier rivalries in sports with both programs currently a top 5 status football-wise... adds fuel to a well-oiled machine if you're rolling.

Beyond that... on an average year the average mid-major can whip any of the rest of the BIG X.

Iowa State? So it's not Idaho State, but on some years it's close.
Mizzou? Biggest pretender in CFB IMO. Seems the BIG 10 thinks so, too.
Kansas? Kansas State? What are we gonna do, play H.O.R.S.E. for a W?
Tech? TCU-esque program. Desperately needs a great coach to do fair-to-decent things.
A&M? All the fans a power program could ask for. All the money a program could ask for. Still aggy when it comes to football.
Baylor? [snort] Really? :D
OSU? With Boone's millions, they've graduated to Tech/TCU/Boise State status.

IOW, with a 4-0 start to that schedule, OU ought to win the rest in a landslide if they want to play for the MNC. Especially with other power conferences' contenders getting to show off in CCGs in week 15.

IMO, OUr schedule is only slightly better than Notre Dame's without continuing to load up in OOC.

[rawlingsHOH]

With the national "Texas and the little 9" perception, the way I see us continuing to contend at least in the current state of OU football is in a schedule like this year's, we drop Utah State. Last year, Idaho State. We're paying those schools to embarass both of our universities for playing them.

Let's say 2010 is this first year without NU and CU:

With no CCG to vault us up a few spots like in 2008 when we needed to provide a tad more evidence for the voters, we need a schedule that looks like this:

OU vs AFA + OU vs FSU + OU @ UC = Enough SOS points with even a 2-1 record to make you a legit contender coming into conference play.

OU/TX, one of the premier rivalries in sports with both programs currently a top 5 status football-wise... adds fuel to a well-oiled machine if you're rolling.

Beyond that... on an average year the average mid-major can whip any of the rest of the BIG X.

Iowa State? So it's not Idaho State, but on some years it's close.
Mizzou? Biggest pretender in CFB IMO. Seems the BIG 10 thinks so, too.
Kansas? Kansas State? What are we gonna do, play H.O.R.S.E. for a W?
Tech? TCU-esque program. Desperately needs a great coach to do fair-to-decent things.
A&M? All the fans a power program could ask for. All the money a program could ask for. Still aggy when it comes to football.
Baylor? [snort] Really? :D
OSU? With Boone's millions, they've graduated to Tech/TCU/Boise State status.

IOW, with a 4-0 start to that schedule, OU ought to win the rest in a landslide if they want to play for the MNC. Especially with other power conferences' contenders getting to show off in CCGs in week 15.

IMO, OUr schedule is only slightly better than Notre Dame's without continuing to load up in OOC.

I have no idea why people are saying all of a sudden we are going to have this "weak schedule", when in reality we've continually had very strong SOS ratings, and we are only losing either a NU or CU game per season, and the annual Big 12 title game asskicking, which was generally against a very overmatched North opponent. I doubt our SOS drops at all, especially looking at the names of our future OOC opponents.