Swim in USC's Sorrows

[meoveryouxinfinity]

http://wearesc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126271


Why would anyone at USC knowingly hide the fact someone from outside the University was giving RB and/or his parents money to help secure him as a client after he leaves USC.

Anyone?



LOIC is not necessarily based on complicity with cheating. If the program was grossly negligent in her oversight responsibilities the impact is the same.


Why then did OU get off with nothing for not knowing 3 players (including their starting QB) was being paid to not work by an OU BOOSTER in the metropolis of NORMAN, OKLAHOMA??!!

How can that not be considered "grossly negligent in her oversight responsibilities"?



We have to wait to see the report. But I'm inclined to think that the difference is that OU officials truly didn't know about the timesheet manipulation and the consequences for them never reached the level of LOIC. It was the simpler version of failing to monitor.


My belief is that the NCAA will have a comprehensive set of examples this afternoon to show that USC had ample opportunity to discover and escalate wrongdoing and instead of doing that, they stonewalled the process leading to a painful 4 years of investigation for the NCAA and college football.


OU cooperated to bring an end to the process in a few months. USC has apparently seen to it that the process would drag on for years. On that basis alone, the NCAA wants to send a clear, loud message, and rightfully so.


This is a time when you need to decide if you're a college football fan or just a USC fan. If the NCAA has the goods on USC which I now concede they probably do, you have to ask yourself, if this were another program, for the sake of college footballl, what would you want from the NCAA?

[1890MilesToNorman]

I guess the denial phase is over. :D

[Dan Thompson]

I understand they are changing the website from

wearesc.com to

wearescrewed.com

[Leroy Lizard]

weweresc.com

[the_ouskull]

They're NOT screwed, though. 2 years and 20 schollies? So what? Four years, two without TV, and 50 schollies to be distributed over the 4-year period would be better... as far as the "message sending" goes. This is one instance where the NCAA had both cause, and proof, and a reason to drop d*ng, and they didn't. F*ck the NCAA. F*ck other conferences, too, while I'm at it. Let's pull a Notre Dame in football.

the_ouskull

[Leroy Lizard]

They're NOT screwed, though. 2 years and 20 schollies? So what? Four years, two without TV, and 50 schollies to be distributed over the 4-year period would be better... as far as the "message sending" goes. This is one instance where the NCAA had both cause, and proof, and a reason to drop d*ng, and they didn't. F*ck the NCAA. F*ck other conferences, too, while I'm at it. Let's pull a Notre Dame in football.

the_ouskull

It all depends on what they uncovered. If this was just Reggie Bush, the punishment is about right. But mostly because of the stonewalling.

[BudSooner]

They're NOT screwed, though.
Yes they are, they hired Lane and then the NCAA came along and spanked them just to add more pain to the process

2 years and 20 schollies? So what? Four years, two without TV, and 50 schollies to be distributed over the 4-year period would be better... as far as the "message sending" goes.
Trust me, by the time 2yrs is up, the team will resemble the Keystone Cops than an actual football team. Lane could not coach his *** out of a paperbag, they should be thankful they won't get to a bowl to get blown out by the likes of Oklahoma State/Baylor once this clown is thru with his business.

This is one instance where the NCAA had both cause, and proof, and a reason to drop d*ng, and they didn't. F*ck the NCAA. F*ck other conferences, too, while I'm at it. Let's pull a Notre Dame in football.



Well for one reason, WE ARE NOT NOTRE DAME! We do not have a huge catholic religion that swears every card carrying member be pledged for life to support that cult of a football program.
And lastly, I do support the dismantling of the NCAA and ONE establishment that EVERY school big or small can get behind and believe in.

If you make me your king, I will see to it that this is done.:D

[PrideTrombone]

http://radprofile.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/img_35.gif

Mmmm, USC, your tears are so yuuuuuuuummmyyy....

[Soonermagik]

Thanks for the future recruits, SC.

OU & Texas are about to own your state. The recruits won't be headed to Oregon or UCLA anymore they will be heading OUr way. Good day, turds. ;)

[SteelCitySooner]

Miami never fully recovered from their harsh sanctions in the 90's..

[meoveryouxinfinity]

Miami never fully recovered from their harsh sanctions in the 90's..

Kiffin + this = Bad news

[sooner518]

at least they are accepting that their school athletic department screwed the pooch by stonewalling the NCAA for years about this. man i cant wait to see them be terrible again

[KantoSooner]

What, really, can one say? It's not nearly enough, but, still,


BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I laugh the hearty laugh of the victor!

[soonerhubs]

It's too bad that SNAKE Pete Carroll won't be held accountable, but it's consoling to see the turd that replaced him is just as deserving.

[SunnySooner]

That first game we play in Norman is going to be unholy kinds of fun. Maybe it'll help take some of the sting from TGOWWDNS. Or not. But it'll still be a blissful day for Sooner fans.

[swardboy]

Wow, just reading through those threads, the hate for Reggie Bush is HUGE. How funny. And bizarre. Can you imagine us calling one of our Heisman winners every name in the book?

[KantoSooner]

Yes, from the moment the SC players are chivvied down the ramp at the point of bayonets, weeping, it'll be one long party.

[SoonerAtKU]

Miami never fully recovered from their harsh sanctions in the 90's..

Was this meant to be sarcastic? Because they won a national title in 2001 and had possibly the team with the most pro-level talent ever assembled in college. They lost it because they lost the handle on the team and made some questionable hires, not because of sanctions a decade prior.

[westbrooke]

Wow, just reading through those threads, the hate for Reggie Bush is HUGE. How funny. And bizarre. Can you imagine us calling one of our Heisman winners every name in the book?

I didn't see the comments on the USC board, but I can't imagine we'd be very kind to a player who dragged us down like Bush has the Trojans. We've been pretty harsh on people like Bomar for their transgressions and their poor representation of the school, and rightly so.

Of course, and I think this was part of your point, I have a hard time imagining someone like Sam being so dumb/arrogant/(pejorative of your choice) as to do what Bush has done, meaning we don't have to worry about how we treat our own.

[TMcGee86]

holy ship. Not 20 schollies, now it's 30 over three years.

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam. 10 a year for 3 years.

That's huge

[meoveryouxinfinity]

Wow, just reading through those threads, the hate for Reggie Bush is HUGE. How funny. And bizarre. Can you imagine us calling one of our Heisman winners every name in the book?

yes. The university is bigger than any single player.
Albeit no heisman, I'm pretty sure there were some choice words for Brett Romar on here a few years ago.

[tommieharris91]

That first game we play in Norman is going to be unholy kinds of fun. Maybe it'll help take some of the sting from TGOWWDNS. Or not. But it'll still be a blissful day for Sooner fans.

TGOWWDNS was just vacated.

[Oldnslo]

TGOWWDNS was just vacated.

We still can't talk about it.

[My Opinion Matters]

TGOWWDNS was just vacated.

Link?

[Dio]

We still can't talk about it.

This

[SoonerAtKU]

It sucks even worse to lose that badly to a team that didn't actually win any of their games that year.

Bleh.

[tommieharris91]

Link?


In addition the university must vacate a number regular-season and postseason wins in all three involved sports, including the 2005 Orange Bowl, where the Trojans won the BCS national championship by thrashing Oklahoma.

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/news/story?id=5272615

[oudavid1]

Miami never fully recovered from their harsh sanctions in the 90's..

sarcasm?

[SteelCitySooner]

Was this meant to be sarcastic? Because they won a national title in 2001 and had possibly the team with the most pro-level talent ever assembled in college. They lost it because they lost the handle on the team and made some questionable hires, not because of sanctions a decade prior.

No, not sarcastic. Miami won what, 4 national titles from 89-94? They were a powerhouse, whether we like it or not. Then the 95 sanctions, took em six years to get into another bowl game. And that one year doesn't mean the 'fully recovered'. They lost their prominence since 95.. Never was the same again, with the exception of that one year..

[tommieharris91]

No, not sarcastic. Miami won what, 4 national titles from 89-94? They were a powerhouse, whether we like it or not. Then the 95 sanctions, took em six years to get into another bowl game. And that one year doesn't mean the 'fully recovered'. They lost their prominence since 95.. Never was the same again, with the exception of that one year..

Y'know, if the BCS had got it right in 2000, we would have played Miami, not FSU.

[SteelCitySooner]

Y'know, if the BCS had got it right in 2000, we would have played Miami, not FSU.

yeah..true. i forgot about that..

[Collier11]

They're NOT screwed, though. 2 years and 20 schollies? So what? Four years, two without TV, and 50 schollies to be distributed over the 4-year period would be better... as far as the "message sending" goes. This is one instance where the NCAA had both cause, and proof, and a reason to drop d*ng, and they didn't. F*ck the NCAA. F*ck other conferences, too, while I'm at it. Let's pull a Notre Dame in football.

the_ouskull

look at what happened to Miami in the 90s and Bama earlier this decade. This will hurt them big time

[Collier11]

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/news/story?id=5272615

Yep, now it is interesting to see what the BCS will do with their title. I dont want it, im just interested if they will vacate it

[stoops the eternal pimp]

this will hurt em some, but if they wanted to end this kind of crap, they would have hit USC in their pocketbook...$5000 penalty?..make em at least give up the few mil they earned playing the championship game

I've mentioned this everywhere today, but USC and about every school would do it all over again if it meant winning a NC and making big bucks

[My Opinion Matters]

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/news/story?id=5272615

Thanks. Ironic the game we've pretended never happened for 5 years will now also be reflected in the history books as the game that never happened.

[Veritas]

Haha, sucks to be u...sc.

[stoopified]

weweresc.comwearesuc.com

[Collier11]

this will hurt em some, but if they wanted to end this kind of crap, they would have hit USC in their pocketbook...$5000 penalty?..make em at least give up the few mil they earned playing the championship game

I've mentioned this everywhere today, but USC and about every school would do it all over again if it meant winning a NC and making big bucks

Thats up to the BCS on both accounts, if the BCS wants their money back and their title back, then what is usc left with? It will be very interesting to see what the BCS does

Plus, the bowl ban costs them a ton of money as well

[soonerhubs]

I guess the denial phase is over. :D

Bush is still in denial apparently. What a ******-rocket he is!
http://m.si.com/news/to/to/detail/2679175;jsessionid=4276DEB08CA378176E8CF1CE4F1BA72 D.cnnsi2

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Thats up to the BCS on both accounts, if the BCS wants their money back and their title back, then what is usc left with? It will be very interesting to see what the BCS does

Plus, the bowl ban costs them a ton of money as well

truth... think about how much income that period of time generated for USC in jersey sales, ticket sales, etc...not just that season but how it created income after that with the buzz that team created...

Even with the penalties, I still think they would do it all over again

[diegosooner]

IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!

[Breadburner]

This just in a pic of Nick Lachey after hearing the news.....

http://www.hecklerspray.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/scanners3.jpg

[SteelCitySooner]

Tennessee must be feeling some sort of vindication..lol

[cccasooner2]

"truth... think about how much income that period of time generated for USC in jersey sales, ticket sales, etc...not just that season but how it created income after that with the buzz that team created..."

At least income tax was paid (probably). Apparently not by Bush and family, otherwise this 4 year fiasco would have ended long ago with IRS records.

[Collier11]

Well if you lose the title, lose your championship trophy, loser your Heisman, is it all worth it?

[Collier11]

STEP, the BCS boss just said they wont take money, that is up to the Pac 10...FYI

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Thanks. Ironic the game we've pretended never happened for 5 years will now also be reflected in the history books as the game that never happened.

The sanctions also say that every copy of that game has to be destroyed and every person has to go through one of those MiB mind eraser things. God bless the NCAA.

[Eielson]

Y'know, if the BCS had got it right in 2000, we would have played Miami, not FSU.

I'm assuming the "one year" was when they destroyed Nebraska in the championship. They also should've beaten Ohio State, so I really don't see how this is "one year."

[Wishboned]

My favorite quote from Bush today:


If the University decides to appeal, I will continue to cooperate with the NCAA and USC, as I did during the investigation.

[TMcGee86]

lmfao

[OUthunder]

Wow, just reading through those threads, the hate for Reggie Bush is HUGE. How funny. And bizarre. Can you imagine us calling one of our Heisman winners every name in the book?

Deservedly so...he's a piece of dog feces.

[SoonerStormchaser]

Deservedly so...he's a piece of dog feces.

Another reason why I am still pissed NO won the SB!

[Leroy Lizard]

Here's a gem from wearesc:


Wouldn't taking scholarships away from a team detract from the focus on education, denying someone the chance to pursue a quality education while competing amateurly at the NCAA level?

Ha ha ha! I never thought of trying that one!

[Salt City Sooner]

Y'know, if the BCS had got it right in 2000, we would have played Miami, not FSU.
You have a phone call from the Washington Huskies, on line 1.

[Salt City Sooner]

Freek strikes again :D

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/nursetpd/USC/USC_Empire_Destroyed.gif

[OUDizzle]

Pete Carroll's response to NCAA sanctions imposed on USC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT7RvG_FpBY)

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/2024/emotjerkbag.gif

[meoveryouxinfinity]

Pete Carroll's response to NCAA sanctions imposed on USC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT7RvG_FpBY)

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/2024/emotjerkbag.gif

I think it's pretty admirable that he did that...

I would appreciate it if I was an alum.

[Collier11]

Im sure the alum are very happy to hear from Carroll and Bush these days

[meoveryouxinfinity]

Im sure the alum are very happy to hear from Carroll and Bush these days

lol no but I would appreciate him putting himself out there. I would still fell like he bolted when he saw the looming sanctions, but if he felt no loyalty to USC then he wouldn't have made a video.

[soonerhubs]

Carroll is still and will always be a narcissistic ****** bag.

Notice how he says "we" over and over again. The little snake knows that he's coming off as a cowardice turd for running when he saw the writing on the wall so his PR guy told him to make a Youtube video.

Complete Bull**** from a professional bull****ter.

[Leroy Lizard]

One poster at weraresc gets it:

http://wearesc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1491420#post1491420


Its all in the report:

"Further, during his September 19, 2006, and February 15, 2008, interviews with the enforcement staff, the assistant football coach violated NCAA ethical conduct legislation by providing false and misleading information regarding his knowledge of this telephone call and the NCAA violations associated with it. The assistant football coach failed to alert the institution's compliance staff of this information and later attested falsely, through his signature on a certifying statement, that he had no knowledge of NCAA violations."

http://assets.espn.go.com/preview/10...cpenalties.pdf

The NCAA is judge, jury and prosecutor in these things, get caught lying to the NCAA, don't be surprised when you get reamed.

IMO, whoever was advising USC, or whoever was making the strategic decisions for USC on this NCAA thing, really f**cked up.

If USC had cleaned house with its compliance staff and fired McNair in 2006 when this stuff came to light you guys wouldn't be talking about 30 schollies and 2 year bowl ban, not even close.

McNair's explanations and justifications look totally lame to this observer, it reminds me of my 7 year old's story about my neighbor's broken window last month, its a "I know you are lying, you know you are lying, why don't I give you one more chance to tell me what happened..." kind of thing.

It can't have helped that as of June 10, 2010 McNair still works for the university, by not firing McNair USC showed it really could care less about the NCAA and its rules, not a good attitude when the NCAA has the power to sh*t in your cornflakes.

Even now, I see all these posts about "we can't fire Mcnair or Garrett now, not until after the appeal..."

Has stonewalling and pretending nothing happened for the last 4 years worked?

How about some contrition. some show by USC that the NCAA rules about amateur status mean anything to it?

[ouwasp]

It will be interesting to see how this impacts their crowds...

Today brings to mind that great day in 1990 when the Evil Empire hauled down the d*** hammer & sickle for the last time. Worthless Reds. Soon to be worthless trojans...

[HBick]

It won't matter, in 2 years the Rams will be back in LA and Sam will be the biggest star in Los Angeles.

Just hoping...

[VA Sooner]

This will take years for USC to get through. Loss of schollys = loss of recruits and for two years which means about 6-8 years to start to see a turn around.

[delhalew]

Suck it prophyactic posse! Ha! Bitch assed arrogent ****nozzles. :D
That felt pretty good.

[PLaw]

They're NOT screwed, though. 2 years and 20 schollies? So what? Four years, two without TV, and 50 schollies to be distributed over the 4-year period would be better... as far as the "message sending" goes. This is one instance where the NCAA had both cause, and proof, and a reason to drop d*ng, and they didn't. F*ck the NCAA. F*ck other conferences, too, while I'm at it. Let's pull a Notre Dame in football.

the_ouskull

The dagger to the heart is the 30 schollies over three years. That will impact a decade.

Killed OU in 89 for all of the 90's.

BOOMER

[sooner n houston]

Bill Hancock, the executive director of the BCS, said a committee will meet to consider vacating USC's 2004 championship. While no action would go into effect until USC's appeals are heard by the NCAA, Hancock said there would be no 2004 champion if USC's victory is vacated.

[KantoSooner]

C'mon transfer rules suspension. That would really complete my week.

[stoopified]

The sanctions also say that every copy of that game has to be destroyed and every person has to go through one of those MiB mind eraser things. God bless the NCAA.I have no memory of what you are babbling about. :D

[BudSooner]

Damn the water is nice right now, someone throw me some floaties. :D

[olevetonahill]

C'mon transfer rules suspension. That would really complete my week.

Ive read it both ways bro
Not sure what the hell is going on
One article said the Kids would Have to Sit a Year if they didnt get a waiver and another said there would be No wait time :confused:

[KantoSooner]

I would guess that, absent a positive statement to the contrary, the standing rules, stand. And that they'd be forced to sit a year. Drat. 'Cause I haven't seen anything referring to this.....and it would most definitely have been listed among the other sanctions.
Too Bad. No Sr or Jr will bolt.

[OUmillenium]

This just in a pic of Nick Lachey after hearing the news.....

http://www.hecklerspray.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/scanners3.jpg

HAAA!

That's awesome!

Scanners

[Eielson]

Ive read it both ways bro
Not sure what the hell is going on
One article said the Kids would Have to Sit a Year if they didnt get a waiver and another said there would be No wait time :confused:

ESPN just reported that their juniors and seniors can transfer without penalty.

[KantoSooner]

Mr. Burns..."Excellent, it's all starting to come together."

Bwahahahahahahaha.

[LePetomaine]

This will take years for USC to get through. Loss of schollys = loss of recruits and for two years which means about 6-8 years to start to see a turn around.

Spot on there. As some have said, look at OU in the early 90's. Every rival recruiter now has the same pitch -- "Son, you don't want to go there; you're nothing but a tackeling dummy for 3 years." The recruiting aspect of losing that many scholarships is huge.

[westbrooke]

Spot on there. As some have said, look at OU in the early 90's. Every rival recruiter now has the same pitch -- "Son, you don't want to go there; you're nothing but a tackeling dummy for 3 years." The recruiting aspect of losing that many scholarships is huge.

Yeah, I was beginning to wonder if this was playing directly into our hands. We can start recruiting their backyard in earnest just as they get hammered by these sanctions. But if we go to the SEC... well, someone else is going to get the benefit. A minor consideration in the grand scheme of things, I suppose. Maybe our recent success there will keep us in the game out there no matter what.

[sooner94]

It's too bad that SNAKE Pete Carroll won't be held accountable, but it's consoling to see the turd that replaced him is just as deserving.

I am thinking more and more that he left because he knew this was coming.

[goingoneight]

The dagger to the heart is the 30 schollies over three years. That will impact a decade.

Killed OU in 89 for all of the 90's.

BOOMER

Well... that and poor coaching.

[Soonersince57]

Dear Doug Gottlieb feels sorry for them. Thinks the punishment is too harsh. oh my

[meoveryouxinfinity]

Dear Doug Gottlieb feels sorry for them. Thinks the punishment is too harsh. oh my

says OU bball should/will suffer the same fate.

I can't decide if i agree with him or not.

[Collier11]

Just because there were phone calls between an assistant coach and the merrill lynch guy does not mean OU did anything wrong. We may have but at this point no one knows.

[Collier11]

So did everyone see the statement by the USC AD, im surprised he still has a job honestly

BURLINGAME, Calif. -- Hundreds of miles away from Heritage Hall and only a few hours after the release of an NCAA report that spelled out major penalties for USC, athletic director Mike Garrett broke his silence on the matter by telling a group of the school’s sports boosters that the report was “nothing but a lot of envy.”

“As I read the decision by the NCAA, all I could get out of all of this was … I read between the lines and there was nothing but a lot of envy, and they wish they all were Trojans,” Garrett said to cheers Thursday night at the San Francisco Airport Marriott.

Garrett made the statement on a previously scheduled coaches' tour stop for football coach Lane Kiffin and men’s basketball coach Kevin O’Neill, whose programs faced sanctions. Football took the brunt of the hit in the report with a two-year bowl ban among other penalties due to improper benefits received by Heisman Trophy winner Reggie Bush. USC will appeal.

Declaring that “we can still split a national championship if we win all our games,” Kiffin also indicated he was heartened to learn 56 of his players appeared this morning for a voluntary 7 a.m. workout.

“Regardless of what happens in that appeal, we know this: SC is more powerful than anything else,” Kiffin said. “The university, the football program, the basketball program -- no matter what they try to do to us, it won’t matter.”

Before dining on seared fillet mignon and chocolate mousse cake, Garrett was greeted warmly with hugs and handshakes by USC fans who each paid at least $75 for event admission.

Wearing a striped cardinal-and-gold-colored tie -- and a smile -- Garrett had this to say when I approached him before the start of the event: “No comment. Don’t bother me. The world is great.”

While walking away with associates, he said, “Don’t talk to that guy. He’s the press.”

Later, when asked why he had not spoken publicly about the NCAA report or even issued a video statement, Garrett acted like he did not hear the question. He patted me on the chest and said, “God bless you.”

When a newspaper reporter asked if he were worried about his job,” Garrett patted that writer on the chest as well and said, “I’m just worried about your job.”

The crowd gave Garrett a standing ovation and also applauded and cheered when he mentioned the school would appeal the NCAA ruling.

“We’re fighters,” Garrett said. “As I told my staff, I said, ‘You know, I feel invigorated by all this stuff.’”

O’Neill, whose team faced few additional sanctions because the school had already self-imposed a postseason ban for this past season, said it was “a great decision by Mike” to go ahead with those sanctions in January.

O’Neill was not present at the school while star one-and-done player O.J. Mayo was being recruited, but he did address difficulty in maintaining institutional control.

“We can’t control people 24 hours a day,” O’Neill said. “That’s all there is to it. You cannot control people from the outside. You cannot control agents. You cannot control runners. Those kinds of things get away from you sometimes because you have no way of knowing. I do know this: We do the right thing every single day by the university, by the athletic department, by the student-athletes.”

Kiffin, playing to the crowd, compared the idea of institutional control to raising children.

“Imagine if you have 120 of them to control,” he said. “And imagine if you also have responsibility for every parent and every family member they have. It’s a pretty difficult situation.”


WOW!

[swardboy]

There's a reason it's called "the land of fruits and nuts".

[KantoSooner]

Scha-
Den-
Freude!!!

Oh Please Lord, make this last and last. I do enjoy it so!

[meoveryouxinfinity]

Just because there were phone calls between an assistant coach and the merrill lynch guy does not mean OU did anything wrong. We may have but at this point no one knows.

I mostly agree with you but our competitors would call that naivety.

[Dio]

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt

[meoveryouxinfinity]

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt

zactly

[Collier11]

I mostly agree with you but our competitors would call that naivety.

Oh I fully understand, im just saying lets not crucify our hoops program yet without knowing what actually happened.

[Mad Dog Madsen]

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt

(crickets chirping)

[meoveryouxinfinity]

Oh I fully understand, im just saying lets not crucify our hoops program yet without knowing what actually happened.

I get that. And we have some things going for us that USC didn't.

- length of investigation won't be NEARLY as long or NEARLY as costly
- dollar amount of money reportedly received is far less ($3000 vs hundreds of thousands)
- supposed infractions happened in one sport
- student athlete is gone. assistant coach is gone.

things going against us
- hoops program was still on probation
- it looks like the assistant coach obviously had SOME involvement or knowledge of the situation. Exactly what went on will probably always be pure speculation. But it doesn't look good for us. Remember, the NCAA doesn't need burden of proof.

[Collier11]

If the allegations are true, we are in big trouble.

[soonerhubs]

Back to the Useless Spoiled Cheaters' sorrows. I find it amusing Garrett played the envy card. Envious of a group that's without principles? I don't think so!

[Leroy Lizard]

“As I read the decision by the NCAA, all I could get out of all of this was … I read between the lines and there was nothing but a lot of envy, and they wish they all were Trojans,” Garrett said to cheers Thursday night at the San Francisco Airport Marriott.

[USC Fan] I don't understand why everyone think's we're arrogant.[/USC FAN]

[meoveryouxinfinity]

[USC Fan] I don't understand why everyone think's we're arrogant.[/USC FAN]

I bet we don't go to the pac 10 because we're boycotting Arizona Sweet Tea.

[Leroy Lizard]

I get that. And we have some things going for us that USC didn't.

- length of investigation won't be NEARLY as long or NEARLY as costly
- dollar amount of money reportedly received is far less ($3000 vs hundreds of thousands)
- supposed infractions happened in one sport
- student athlete is gone. assistant coach is gone.

things going against us
- hoops program was still on probation
- it looks like the assistant coach obviously had SOME involvement or knowledge of the situation. Exactly what went on will probably always be pure speculation. But it doesn't look good for us. Remember, the NCAA doesn't need burden of proof.

I am sure we will fully cooperate and take our lumps.

That' the difference.

[GKeeper316]

Miami never fully recovered from their harsh sanctions in the 90's..

its not that they never recovered... randy shannon wont allow the u to turn into what it once was. and just so you know, miami graduates more football players than any other bsd school. i think thats a much greater accomplishment than a national title.

[meoveryouxinfinity]

its not that they never recovered... randy shannon wont allow the u to turn into what it once was. and just so you know, miami graduates more football players than any other bsd school. i think thats a much greater accomplishment than a national title.

yeah but that doesnt fit on the stadium or in glass cases ;)

[Collier11]

its not that they never recovered... randy shannon wont allow the u to turn into what it once was. and just so you know, miami graduates more football players than any other bsd school. i think thats a much greater accomplishment than a national title.

yet he still won 9 games last year and could have a huge year this year, winning can be done with character

[KantoSooner]

Has the smoke and steam rising over USC cleared yet?

[Leroy Lizard]

Not by a long shot.

[Dio]

They still think they're going to go undefeated this year.

[BoulderSooner79]

They still think they're going to go undefeated this year.

Guaranteed to be undefeated during bowl season - no big10 patsy offered up for sacrifice to them in the Rose bowl.

[BoulderSooner79]

It will be interesting to see if any of the SC juniors or seniors take advantage of the free transfer exemption. According to ESPN, they can transfer w/o sitting out a year and can even be recruited by other teams. They cannot go to other Pac10* schools without sitting out due to conference rules and that probably eliminates most kids from switching. I figure Mitch Mustain's mom is out flirting with other coaches as I type.

*would that include soon-to-be pac10/16 schools ?

[meoveryouxinfinity]

It will be interesting to see if any of the SC juniors or seniors take advantage of the free transfer exemption. According to ESPN, they can transfer w/o sitting out a year and can even be recruited by other teams. They cannot go to other Pac10* schools without sitting out due to conference rules and that probably eliminates most kids from switching. I figure Mitch Mustain's mom is out flirting with other coaches as I type.

*would that include soon-to-be pac10/16 schools ?

Most juniors and seniors probably won't transfer. For most starters, it'd be pointless. For anyone else, who really cares?

Not to mention most juniors have been on campus for at least 2 years, going on their 3rd or 4th. Seniors entering their 4th or 5th year. Upheaval isn't attractive to 21, 22 year olds.

[BoulderSooner79]

Most juniors and seniors probably won't transfer. For most starters, it'd be pointless. For anyone else, who really cares?

Not to mention most juniors have been on campus for at least 2 years, going on their 3rd or 4th. Seniors entering their 4th or 5th year. Upheaval isn't attractive to 21, 22 year olds.

Agreed - that's why I mentioned Mustain. Non-starter where ever his mom makes him go and sitting behind a true sophomore doesn't look good for his chances to play. But with their recruiting classes as they are, guys 2nd on the 2-deep would be starters for a lot of other teams and attrition could really hurt their depth.

[meoveryouxinfinity]

Agreed - that's why I mentioned Mustain. Non-starter where ever his mom makes him go and sitting behind a true sophomore doesn't look good for his chances to play. But with their recruiting classes as they are, guys 2nd on the 2-deep would be starters for a lot of other teams and attrition could really hurt their depth.

True. I see maybe 5 players transferring. No more than 10 for sure. And probably none will be waiting to come to OU lol.

[NormanPride]

baj here, and I was one of a few hundred (but likely no more than 1k) Sooner fans in attendance at the game that never happened back in January 2005 that stayed till the very awful end. The stadium started full of crimson and white, and ended with a lot of ugly orange empty seats.

I absolutely love that SC is getting the bowl ban hammer, that they are getting scholarships removed (because let's be honest - a football player that gets an SC football scholarship will get it elsewhere just as easily. take a Rice football scholarship away and then I'll feel bad for a kid not getting an opportunity at an education), that they are forcing OJ and Reggie to keep themselves and their money away from SC, that they have to vacate their win over us and likely, will have to give back their one and only crystal football (unless they pulled a * and created big fat phony crystal ball trophies for some of their big fat phony title claims).

the few SC fans that made the Miami trek treated Oklahoma fans like trash before and after the game. even a kid was trash talking Oklahoma to me before the game ("Even if you win, you still have to go back to Oklahoma!"). So, in the almighty words of Clay Bennett, boo hoo.

Yes, I am still bitter, but at least I can admit it. That sleaze Garrett they have as AD won't admit that his program cheated. Lane Kiffin lied to recruits before the ban hammer came down (I really hope some of those kids transfer asap for that), and their feeble attempt to pin this all on a worthless basketball program with a one-and-done player named OJ and a pathetic coach that took over a can't-succeed job again (he also once took over the post-Jordan Bulls... what was he thinking...) failed... it's all so full of win.

Everything is full of win... except SC from December 2004-December 2005 :D

[Leroy Lizard]

baj here, and I was one of a few hundred (but likely no more than 1k) Sooner fans in attendance at the game that never happened (per NCAA) back in January 2005 that stayed till the very awful end. The stadium started full of crimson and white, and ended with a lot of ugly orange empty seats.


Fixed

[Collier11]

Good article


USC's punishment sends shock waves

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Pat Forde
ESPN.com

The NCAA shocked the world Thursday.

It shocked the cynics who didn't believe it still had the sternness to drop the hammer on arguably the most glamorous program in college football.

It shocked the USC Trojans, whose institutional behavior screamed defiance and indifference to allegations of potentially serious rules violations.

It shocked Lane Kiffin, who left a great job in the best conference in America for the captain's chair of the Titanic.

And it shocked a passel of blue-chip recruits who cavalierly signed to be Trojans beneath gathering storm clouds, and now must watch everyone else go bowling without them for the next two years.

That was the message on a thunderous Thursday from the NCAA to all of college sports: It may take forever -- four years, in this case -- but we can still deliver shock-and-awe punishment to a high-profile scofflaw. And we've got a smoking crater in Los Angeles to prove it.

USC was dealt with harshly for having enabled, marketed and profited from the semiprofessional careers of football star Reggie Bush and basketball star O.J. Mayo. It was slammed with a two-year postseason football ban -- one of just six multi-year bans in NCAA history -- to go along with a self-imposed one-year ban in basketball. It was deprived of 10 football scholarships for each of the next three years, to go along with a self-imposed scholarship reduction in basketball. Its record book was shredded, with vacated victories by the dozen. And the legacies of two USC heroes -- Bush and Pete "Cut and Run" Carroll -- were significantly tainted as well.

Judging by their actions, a whole lot of people didn't see that coming. A whole lot of people seemed to think USC was bulletproof -- right up until the bullet-riddled body of Tommy Trojan was revealed today.

Which is why this is a good day in college sports. Not because USC took the biggest hit for a major program since Alabama football got slammed eight years ago. Because you, the fan, can trust the NCAA enforcement and infractions arms to go after the big guys with the same vigor as they go after the little guys.

(With, granted, a ton of help from the media reports, which exposed the vast majority of activities detailed in the report, and the NCAA posse rode in thereafter.)

Southern Cal richly deserved to get hammered. As the Committee on Infractions' 67-page public report illustrates, USC operated a corrupt athletic institution for years.

Athletic director Mike Garrett presided over major violations in football and men's basketball without displaying much in the way of vigilance, concern, accountability or leadership. He is the common thread throughout a litany of violations stretching from 2004-08. He is the personification of a lack of institutional control, one of the charges the Trojans were nailed with.

And the fact that he's kept his job throughout it all is a condemnation of the school's administration.

But Garrett is hardly the only man in cardinal and gold to blame.

Save some calumny for Carroll. One of his catch phrases is "Win Forever." Today the operative phrase for two of his greatest teams is "Vacated Forever."

Not that Coach Cut and Run was around to feel the sting of it. He followed the example set by Dennis Franchione and other college coaches who skip town when the NCAA is making life difficult. Carroll turned down pro jobs year after year -- until he couldn't pass up the mediocre Seattle Seahawks.

And don't think Carroll didn't foster the atmosphere that created the Bush fiasco. His best USC players got Hollywood star treatment, with celebrities circulating freely within the program. The practice field, the locker room, the sidelines during games -- they were open to stars and opportunists alike. And when the opportunists got hold of Bush, he was happy to take what they were offering, allegedly with the tacit knowledge of his position coach, Todd McNair.

The circumstances were similar with Mayo in the basketball program. It actually was more egregious there, for three reasons:

1. Not a soul in basketball believed Mayo was an amateur coming out of high school.

2. Mayo's "recruitment" consisted of a third party with an NCAA rap sheet showing up and basically offering the kid's services to the school.

3. USC already should have been on red alert after the Bush allegations.

(The only area in which the NCAA went soft in its verdict was on the hoops program and former coach Tim Floyd. How Floyd avoided a show-cause penalty is beyond me, and I would have given basketball an additional year without postseason play.)

Yet the school seemed quite surprised to find out that Mayo was paying for precious little during his one year as a Trojan. And acting surprised wasn't going to be an adequate defense, with either Bush or Mayo.

"The real issue here is if you have high-profile players, then your enforcement staff has to monitor those students at a higher level," said NCAA Committee on Infractions chair Paul Dee during a teleconference Thursday. "It's extraordinarily important that you realize the people likely to receive these interactions from outside the institution are also those same people who are going to provide a reward down the road. High-profile players demand high-profile compliance."

At least USC managed to punish itself for the basketball transgressions. It dug in its heels on football, and you wonder whether that exacerbated the penalty.

Hiring Lane Kiffin was not exactly a iron-willed commitment to clean living. Kiffin was on staff as an offensive assistant when Bush was being showered with agent tribute. And when Kiffin bolted Tennessee after one season, he left behind a string of secondary violations and an ongoing inquiry into some way-off-campus recruiting efforts by Orange Pride hostesses.

"You'd never get anyone [on the Committee on Infractions] to admit it, but it certainly wouldn't help them [hiring Kiffin]," said an expert on NCAA infractions cases. "He has such a reputation, it couldn't have helped."

Despite a late start in recruiting, questions about his own threadbare coaching résumé and the ongoing NCAA investigation, Kiffin went out and signed a great recruiting class. ESPN ranked it No. 7 nationally.

Today, every player who signed with the Trojans has to wonder whether they were sold a bill of goods -- and why they believed it.

According to media reports, Kiffin misled at least one recruit -- superstar offensive tackle Seantrel Henderson. The New York Times reported that Kiffin told Hendersons and his family not to worry about potential NCAA sanctions.

"As far as he's been informed -- he was very, very choosy with his words -- there shouldn't be anything going wrong because there was no knowledge of anything going on by the staff," Henderson's father, Sean, told The Times.

The story continued: "The Hendersons asked Kiffin to be clear about what impact the NCAA might have on the Trojans' football program, Sean Henderson said. Just before Seantrel chose USC on Wednesday, Kiffin reiterated not to listen to others who said the Trojans might face sanctions."

The fact is, Kiffin and everyone else at USC had no way of knowing whether the school was in the clear at that point. To present any different message to recruits was dishonest.

But a whole lot of star players seemed willing to believe that USC was untouchable. They signed their letters, figuring USC would Win Forever.

The recruits and a lot of other people in college sports got shocking news Thursday. USC wasn't bulletproof after all.

[Salt City Sooner]

Plaschke actually nails it for a change:


Fight arrogantly. Fight recklessly. Fight wrong.

As suspected, the only thing that could truly stop Los Angeles' most powerful football program was its own heady belief in that power. It was no surprise, then, that the USC football dynasty has been whittled to dust by the only opponent equally big and just as bold.

They were whacked by their ego. They were steamrolled by their self-importance. They were sanctioned by themselves.


The NCAA didn't barge through the Heritage Hall doors Thursday, it was invited inside by a Trojans football program that cultivated a daringly headstrong culture permeating everything from the Coliseum field to the coaches' offices.

The two-year bowl suspension, the 30 lost scholarships, the 14 vacated wins, the possibly forfeited national championship and Heisman Trophy, this giant of defeats was created by the same Trojans attitude that once caused them to lose in little places like Corvallis and Eugene.

We don't care if you know what we're doing. You still can't stop us.

Pete Carroll thought nobody could stop him, and it will cost him a legacy. Mike Garrett was certain nobody could stop them, and it will cost him a graceful retirement. Many of the school's powerful alumni lived vicariously through this attitude — you should have seen my e-mail every time I questioned Carroll's swagger — and it will cost them several years of meaningful Saturdays.

For most of the last decade, this mind-set worked on the field, certainly, creating some of the greatest football memories in this city's history, the Trojans collecting two national titles, three Heisman Trophy winners, seven consecutive Pac-10 championships and seven consecutive BCS bowl appearances.

But today Trojans fans must ask themselves whether nine years of greatness will be worth the upcoming four or five years of struggle. Today Trojans fans must take account not only of the 97 wins and 19 losses, but the state of their program's soul.

A player was paid and nobody stopped it. An illegal coach was hired and nobody cared. Reports of all this surfaced, time and again, website investigations and newspaper headlines, for months and months, and yet nobody at USC did anything to fix it.

Well, now, the NCAA has fixed it, but good, and the prevailing thought is, this did not have to happen. The Trojans could have stopped this at every stealthy step. They could have rid themselves of Reggie Bush the moment running backs coach Todd McNair learned of his financial involvement with agents. They could have fired special teams advisor Pete Rodriguez the moment it was discovered Carroll had foolishly broken the rules by hiring him.

They could have won games without Bush. His backfield mate LenDale White was an eventual second-round draft pick. They certainly could have won games without Rodriguez. Carroll was willing to risk his integrity with a guy who coaches the kicking?

But, no, simply competing was never enough for these Trojans. They had to follow Carroll's motto by always competing, everywhere, in everything, even if that meant cheating.

Even when Trojans realized they had been caught, their conceit didn't allow them to back down. There is a feeling the football team could have avoided such harsh punishment if only the athletic department had punished it first, as it did with the basketball team, that program serving a self-imposed, one-year postseason suspension last winter.

When basketball's probation was also announced Thursday, everyone shrugged, because the violations had already been aired and the suspension already served. But Garrett chose to fight for the football team to the bitter, burning end. So today it is the football program that is in ashes, and it is its leaders on the embers.

Carroll takes the biggest hit. In the blink of Bush's eye black, he goes from Bear Bryant to John Calipari. He goes from a coach who presided over the greatest days in USC football history to one who was in charge of its biggest embarrassment. He goes from saint to scallywag.

Carroll says he didn't know about the Bush violations. That now seems impossible, given that apparently everyone from here to San Diego knew, including Carroll's loyal running backs coach McNair.

I will forever believe he went to Seattle because of the money and opportunity, because Carroll never thought the NCAA could nail the Trojans. Nonetheless, he made $33 million from violations that will cost his old school its reputation, and folks here will never look at him the same.

Garrett takes the other big hit. Throughout the 67-page NCAA report, there are examples where USC either looked the other way or just didn't care. Garrett's football arrogance fostered this culture of indifference, and it is impossible to imagine the environment changing while the boss is still in place. With his protector Steve Sample gone, can Garrett be far behind?

The other notable people hurt here are the current Trojans, and folks will be asking, is it fair to punish them for the sins of others? Of course not. But how about the other teams who suffered from USC's cheating? All those amateur knees that buckled when trying to tackle a well-compensated Bush, was that fair to them?

The only thing certain here is, Fight On has become Fight Interrupted, and only time, and the willingness of USC to learn from its mistakes, will tell whether it is Fight Done.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-0611-plaschke-usc-ncaa-20100611-9,0,458661.column

[olevetonahill]

Hell Peeps They won then have to Vacate, WE lost deal with it , get over it . Its 5 years later .:D

[Leroy Lizard]

Some of the fans aren't taking things too well:


At this point, I would be willing to risk the entire future of the USC Football program to take down the entire NCAA. At this point, I want no bowl ban, all of our scholarships back, the BCS National Championship back and any PAC-10 titles we won. They want to act as thugs, we need to act like we cannot be pushed around.

I would put every top attorney on the case that money could buy and I would be willing to fight it for 10 years or more if I had to do so. I would steal myself, the students, the alumni and our fans for this possibility. And, I would state the reason for it is core to what this country is all about which is that you are innocent until proven guilty and NOBODY can dish out this type of punishment without absolute proof of the allegations. We stand on principle and we are willing to give up our (football) lives fighting for it.

In addition, I would go after and sue in a civil suit every single person on the committee that voted to sanction USC with such draconian measures. And, the amount of compensation sought would be for 10 times the real monetary damage to USC's loss of revenue as compensatory damages.

With that steely resolve, I guarantee that at some point in the future, the NCAA would cave. The only way to win is to be willing to go all the way. If you aren't willing to go all the way, they will know it and will stick to their guns. They need to pay for this travesty and we need to dish it out with 10 times the force they gave to us. Then, and only then, will the NCAA leave us alone.

[Collier11]

I hope you registered just to tell that guy he is a mega doosher

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm afraid he might sic those top-flight lawyers on me. He sounds like one bad dude!

BTW, USC's AD is on crack:


Garrett said he "felt invigorated by all this stuff" because he had wondered how big the USC brand was and "with the penalty we got today I know we're bigger than life."

[Frozen Sooner]

Garrett said he "felt invigorated by all this stuff" because he had wondered how big the USC brand was and "with the penalty we got today I know we're bigger than life."

Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit
Of that forbidden tree whose mortal taste
Brought death into the world, and all our woe,
With loss of Eden, till one greater Man
Restore us, and regain the blissful Seat.

...

Here we may reign secure, and in my choice
to reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.

[Flagstaffsooner]

Pete Carroll's response to NCAA sanctions imposed on USC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT7RvG_FpBY)

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/2024/emotjerkbag.gifWhat a bag of horese$hit.

[Collier11]

I'm afraid he might sic those top-flight lawyers on me. He sounds like one bad dude!

BTW, USC's AD is on crack:

sounds like he is literally on crack or going crazy, he cant think all of this chest pounding is helpful?

[OUthunder]

Carroll is still and will always be a narcissistic ****** bag.

Notice how he says "we" over and over again. The little snake knows that he's coming off as a cowardice turd for running when he saw the writing on the wall so his PR guy told him to make a Youtube video.

Complete Bull**** from a professional bull****ter.


Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

[soonerhubs]

http://27.media.tumblr.com/ryUWWkDgRpitdz2p0P9flkBNo1_500.png

This is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my entire life. I haven't had a very hard life. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/ncaa/06/16/bush-usc.ap/index.html)


"This thing, regarding USC and the NCAA, is the closest thing to death without dying because I have such a great love and respect for the university," Bush said. "This has been one the toughest things I've had to deal with in my life."

--Really Reggie? Painful is it?

[NormanPride]

Don't like it? Don't cheat.

[soonerhubs]

Don't like it? Don't cheat.

Don't you know that this is almost as painful as a death in the family?!?!?! How dare you marginalize his exaggerated pain! ;) :D

[Mad Dog Madsen]

Don't like it? Don't cheat.

This.

[NormanPride]

Don't you know that this is almost as painful as a death in the family?!?!?! How dare you marginalize his exaggerated pain! ;) :D

Almost as painful as that time he lateraled to the fullback in the MNC. The fullback never got the ball and Texas recovered. LOL

[BudSooner]

its not that they never recovered... randy shannon wont allow the u to turn into what it once was. and just so you know, miami graduates more football players than any other bsd school. i think thats a much greater accomplishment than a national title.

Pffft, I forgot to add something to this....
Shannon seems to be taking them in the right direction, though shedding that thug mentality and image will take forever it can be done.

Almost as painful as that time he lateraled to the fullback in the MNC. The fullback never got the ball and Texas recovered. LOL
That was one MONUMENTAL WTF moment.:D

[badger]

Almost as painful as that time he lateraled to the fullback in the MNC. The fullback never got the ball and Texas recovered. LOL

Oh now, don't be a playa hata! Watch Reggie Bush flip into the endzone! Watch it! Watch it, d@mmit! Oh look, now he's smiling! Smile, Reggie, smile! Why aren't you appreciating his smile?! And look! He tributed his area code 619 on his eyeblack! Appreciate his appreciation! APPRECIATE IT, PEOPLE!!!!!!!! :mad:

:rolleyes:

[BoulderSooner79]

I like the way Reggie is willing to help USC with their appeal. I'm sure USC sure would say "sure you can help -- go far away"

[KantoSooner]

Maybe Reggie and Petey can both help out.

[soonerhubs]

Anyone else left for those two to bribe?

[badger]

I like the way Reggie is willing to help USC with their appeal. I'm sure USC sure would say "sure you can help -- go far away"

too little, too late. if reggie bush cooperated with ncaa officials, or was a little bit less blatant about his rule breaking during is playing days, SC wouldn't be paying the price for his sins now.

[Leroy Lizard]

I like the way Reggie is willing to help USC with their appeal. I'm sure USC sure would say "sure you can help -- go far away"

Soon after he helps OJ find his wife's killer.

[Jello Biafra]

Soon after he helps OJ find his wife's killer.

speaking of which, hows he doing on that man hunt?

[stoopified]

speaking of which, hows he doing on that man hunt?He has elimanated golfers from the suspect list,he is now scouring through the Nevada prison system. :D

[Leroy Lizard]

He has elimanated golfers from the suspect list,he is now scouring through the Nevada prison system. :D

He's leaving no stone unturned... or unsplit.

[85sooners]

:pop: :D

[soonerhubs]

Stonewall until they punish you, then act contrite when stonewalling fails. ****** bag with a capital D.

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/news/story?id=5460735

[Leroy Lizard]

IOW, acting like a jerk was costing him advertising dollars.

[soonerhubs]

IOW, acting like a jerk was costing him advertising dollars.

Exactly!

[oudavid1]

Has anyone ever noticed that if you rearrange the letters in USC you can get S-U-C.....thats coooooool

[BoulderSooner79]

Has anyone ever noticed that if you rearrange the letters in USC you can get S-U-C.....thats coooooool

That's been done so often here, I thought they really were SUC.

[birddog]

Some of the fans aren't taking things too well:

haha, steely resolve. is that friggin lester miles wearing a youth medium trojans hat over there.

[oudavid1]

That's been done so often here, I thought they really were SUC.

Lol i know, i was being sarcastic