Is this the future Big XII?

[soonerfan28]

South-Houston, TCU, Baylor, Tulsa, SMU, Rice
North-KU, KSU, Iowa St, BYU, Utah, BSU

Just trying to get an idea of what the Big XII would look like if the Pac 10 and Big 10 raid our conference.

[TMcGee86]

That's probably about the best case scenario if everything goes to pot.

Getting Utah and Boise would be a pretty solid move.

[rawlingsHOH]

okie state would be a nice fit in the south.

[Mad Dog Madsen]

okie state would be a nice fit in the south.

They wouldn't finish higher than 3rd.

[soonerfan28]

The North could be the stronger division w/that group.

[soonervegas]

With each passing day, I am beginning to think more and more it is going to look like this:

North
Nebraska
Missouri
Colorado
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State

South
Oklahoma
Texas
A&M
Oklahoma State
Tech
Baylor

[Mad Dog Madsen]

With each passing day, I am beginning to think more and more it is going to look like this:

North
Nebraska
Missouri
Colorado
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State

South
Oklahoma
Texas
A&M
Oklahoma State
Tech
Baylor

Keep dreamin'... Won't be like that for long.

[soonerfan28]

If the Big XII does stay together I would like to see them add Houston, TCU, BYU, & Utah. That prob doesn't help in gaining any media markets except maybe SLC but that would be a pretty strong conference. That would only mean 4 more schools to split the money with and prob not much more coming in.

[Scotty]

If the Big XII does stay together I would like to see them add Houston, TCU, BYU, & Utah. That prob doesn't help in gaining any media markets except maybe SLC but that would be a pretty strong conference. That would only mean 4 more schools to split the money with and prob not much more coming in.

yep, you got it. Basically, all you'd be adding would be the state of utah. All the schools would have to take a pay cut and I don't see that happening.

[soonervegas]

I think BYU would increase conference value...but you would need someone else and that's a hard school to find.

[Jdog]

Do our records count in the PAC16?
what importance can be attributed to 6 championships in a conference that no longer exists?
Why isn't the Big 12 strong enough to go after programs like Illinois, Cincinnati, AZ state and Arkansas?
We would be in 7 of top 21 TV markets and 25 of the top 100
3. Chicago
5. Dallas-Ft. Worth
10. Houston
12. Phoenix
17. Cleveland-Akron
18. Denver
21. St Louis

[TexasLidig8r]

Why isn't the Big 12 strong enough to go after programs like Illinois, Cincinnati, AZ state and Arkansas?


Academically, Illinois likes being in the Big 10 plus, the revenue they get from the Big 10 television contract is at least twice what they would get from the current Big 12 contract. Plus, there is the revenue and research sharing they get from being in the CIC. NO way they leave.

Arkansuck... the television revenue they get from the SEC right now. .they share in $242 million annually... why take a piece of a pie that is 1/3 the size of that? Not going to happen.

Cincy.. doesn't have the national appeal, the national following, only very recent success in football and the Ohio State still dominates television markets of Cincy and the midwest. They add nothing.

Arizona State.. they identify closely with the Pac 10... would not go anywhere without Arizona.. recruit California heavily, a lot of their student population comes from California and although the Pac 10 TV contract is less than the Big 12 right now.. the Pac 10 contract comes up for renewal this next year and will undoubtedly be substantially more than the Big 12 contract.

[sluggo sooner]

South-Houston, TCU, Baylor, Tulsa, SMU, Rice
North-KU, KSU, Iowa St, BYU, Utah, BSU

Just trying to get an idea of what the Big XII would look like if the Pac 10 and Big 10 raid our conference.

That's what C-USA will look like - minus TCU. BXII will go away.

[fwsooner22]

I can't wait for all this to come to it's end. Tired of hearing how smart the Big 10 is and how UT, Missouri, Pitt, Rutgers fit with the "SMART" schools. Every campus of higher learning is impressive to me. It may well be about that right now the fact that those schools have figured out a way to draw the more intelligent student. I don't dispute that but that conference has become loserville and eventually (at least from an athletic standpoint) people get tired of losers.

The Ivy league used to win national championships. Maybe that's what will happen to the the Big 10+ as well.

I have my diplomas and work with and around lots of UT grads. They watch porn on the company computers, pick their noses and nap just like everybody else. It's only a big difference amongst their own.

I know this; on those Saturdays in October there isn't a UT student or grad on the Fairgrounds who gives a crap about how smart they are. They want to win. So do I.

So please, take your uppity academia attitude and head north. My family is from Chicago; they hate Texas up there too. Good Luck and as has always been the case see ya in October.

[Jdog]

Academically, Illinois likes being in the Big 10 plus, the revenue they get from the Big 10 television contract is at least twice what they would get from the current Big 12 contract. Plus, there is the revenue and research sharing they get from being in the CIC. NO way they leave.

Arkansuck... the television revenue they get from the SEC right now. .they share in $242 million annually... why take a piece of a pie that is 1/3 the size of that? Not going to happen.

Cincy.. doesn't have the national appeal, the national following, only very recent success in football and the Ohio State still dominates television markets of Cincy and the midwest. They add nothing.

Arizona State.. they identify closely with the Pac 10... would not go anywhere without Arizona.. recruit California heavily, a lot of their student population comes from California and although the Pac 10 TV contract is less than the Big 12 right now.. the Pac 10 contract comes up for renewal this next year and will undoubtedly be substantially more than the Big 12 contract.

Great points - but - Why does everyone keep bringing up academics as being important in a conference? Is there a conference engineering or law school competition that ESPN is not telling us about? I mean they cover the spelling bee for 8th graders - what am I missing.

another question? why does the PAC have a better chance at a bigger contract?
Sure they have some large "TV" markets like Seattle - San Fran - LA - Phoenix and San Diego.
but who in those cities is really watch college football?

Are you really going to tell me that those cities can match the number of TV turned on to see a collage game - compared to an UT or OU game in HOUSTON, San Antonio, El Paso, AUSTIN, DFW, DENVER (probably more like a west coast city - with better weather and more to do then stay inside and watch Football on a Saturday) Kansas City, OKC or Tulsa?

If SC is 8-5 (and on probation) and UCLA is 4 -8, their fans aren't watching -their reading about their teams in the Sunday morning box scores. No one is watching PAC 10 football except maybe in Oregon.

Don't you get it - They need us!!!!!
We don't need them!!!!!

[soonervegas]

The future of the the Big 12 is Texas having his way with the rest of the conference on the pinball machine. While, A&M and OU stand near by chanting lewd comments.

[Jdog]

a few days ago I heard a radio show in Alabama saying that maybe TAMU and OU might be invited to the SEC - and that the Aggies might be up for it.

[delhalew]

For the second time in recent history, Texas ego has destroyed a conference. If the Big 12 had put together it's own network or gotten a better package, instead of allowing Texas to do it's own thing, we would not be here.
Texas is toxic, and whatever conference they go to will have to take their baggage, and hopefully handle it better than we did.
PS...we owned the big 12!!!!

[TexasLidig8r]

For the second time in recent history, Texas ego has destroyed a conference. If the Big 12 had put together it's own network or gotten a better package, instead of allowing Texas to do it's own thing, we would not be here.

Well..maybe you shouldn't have voted against it then when you had the opportunity. And maybe you shouldn't have voted for disproportionate shares of television revenues.. but you did. And maybe you shouldn't have voted to have the championship game played in Arlington until 2013.. but you did. And maybe you shouldn't have voted against partial qualifiers, and Prop 48 casualties and "county athletic scholarships,".. but you did.

Texas is toxic, and whatever conference they go to will have to take their baggage, and hopefully handle it better than we did.
PS...we owned the big 12!!!!

If by baggage, you mean a large, well healed alumni basis and athletic and academic success and large populations.. then most conferences will be on board with that.

[TexasLidig8r]

Great points - but - Why does everyone keep bringing up academics as being important in a conference? Is there a conference engineering or law school competition that ESPN is not telling us about? I mean they cover the spelling bee for 8th graders - what am I missing.

Because conference are more than just football games. Look up the Big 10/11 and the CIC and see how much shared research goes on. You want like minded institutions connected through conference facilities. Also, it is inevitable that high school students with more exposure to other universities through athletic exposure will explore going to those schools. Is it a coincidence that the number of Texas high school kids who attend KU and Missouri have exploded in growth?

another question? why does the PAC have a better chance at a bigger contract?
Sure they have some large "TV" markets like Seattle - San Fran - LA - Phoenix and San Diego.
but who in those cities is really watch college football?

Are you really going to tell me that those cities can match the number of TV turned on to see a collage game - compared to an UT or OU game in HOUSTON, San Antonio, El Paso, AUSTIN, DFW, DENVER (probably more like a west coast city - with better weather and more to do then stay inside and watch Football on a Saturday) Kansas City, OKC or Tulsa?

If SC is 8-5 (and on probation) and UCLA is 4 -8, their fans aren't watching -their reading about their teams in the Sunday morning box scores. No one is watching PAC 10 football except maybe in Oregon.

It's not a matter necessarily of who watches the games.. it is the cable rates a network or conference can get from households that subscribe to that cable network. For example, in states where the Big 10/11 has a university, subscribers to the Big 10 Network pay 70 cents per contract. In states where there is no Big 10 university, subscribers only pay 10 cents. Extrapoliate that out to the very populus states of California and Texas. A Pac 16 network will have millions of subscribers resulting in millions of revenue being paid to the schools.

In addition, if I am corporation X, I am much more likely to pay increased advertising revenue for a game televised in Los Angeles, Phoenix, San Francisco, Seattle, Dallas and Houston. Why? Because those are huge population bases and people are going to tune in to watch Texas and USC and UCLA and yes.. even you hillbillies.

Don't you get it - They need us!!!!!
We don't need them!!!!!

No.. your last statement is very wrong. It is not about competitive balance.. It's about revenue. You desparately need those large markets to thrive.

[crawfish]

If by baggage, you mean a large, well healed alumni basis and athletic and academic success and large populations.. then most conferences will be on board with that.

With the California schools, Texas will not dominate the PAC 16 politically like it does the Big 12.

[goingoneight]

Does anyone else think there would be a traveling BIG 6/PAC 10-whatever CCG?

Think about the stops along the way:
The Rose Bowl
Jerry World
University of Pheonix Stadium
Qualcom Stadium, etc...

[westbrooke]

Academically, Illinois likes being in the Big 10 plus, the revenue they get from the Big 10 television contract is at least twice what they would get from the current Big 12 contract. Plus, there is the revenue and research sharing they get from being in the CIC. NO way they leave.

Arkansuck... the television revenue they get from the SEC right now. .they share in $242 million annually... why take a piece of a pie that is 1/3 the size of that? Not going to happen.

Cincy.. doesn't have the national appeal, the national following, only very recent success in football and the Ohio State still dominates television markets of Cincy and the midwest. They add nothing.

Arizona State.. they identify closely with the Pac 10... would not go anywhere without Arizona.. recruit California heavily, a lot of their student population comes from California and although the Pac 10 TV contract is less than the Big 12 right now.. the Pac 10 contract comes up for renewal this next year and will undoubtedly be substantially more than the Big 12 contract.

I agree with most of this, but I wouldn't be so quick to discount Cincy. New fan bases are often some of the most enthusiastic (just spent a little time in Boise and the sheer volume of BSU stuff was sickening, particularly to an OU fan...). Sure they're competing with Ohio State in that area, and that's a battle they're going to lose for the foreseeable future. But there are still a lot of TVs in Ohio, and regular match-ups with teams like OU, Texas, and Nebraska would go a long way toward generating and sustaining interest in the team. Our game at Cincy this year could be a good barometer for how well that could work. They're not a huge get, but I think "adding nothing" is too pessimistic.

[OUDizzle]

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/9600/big16.jpg

[GottaHavePride]

If by baggage, you mean a large, well healed alumni basis and athletic and academic success and large populations.. then most conferences will be on board with that.

I think you mean well-heeled. As in, someone "well-heeled" can afford to have the heels of their shoes replaced on a regular basis, implying that they are well-off financially.

Could alternately mean well-mannered, as in a dog that is properly taught to heel.

[Jdog]

No.. your last statement is very wrong. It is not about competitive balance.. It's about revenue. You desparately need those large markets to thrive.

My last statement has nothing to do with competitive balance - It's all about Revenue. My point is - you need people watching live games - we do that, the PAC 10 doesn't. I believe your right if it's all about a "Conference network" - But most live games are still contracted with ABC/ESPN, CBS, FOX or NBC - so I think those folks still care about ratings and share.

The PAC 10's tv problem, relative to viewers in the rest of the country, has been their time zone. Also, as I said before, No one is at home in LA or San Fran during College football season - unless they don't have a life. Most are doing other things besides watching football. Why do you think the Rams and Raiders left.
That is why they want you guys so much - because you're fans don't have lives - all you do is watch football --IE: your toothless big boobed aunt in Mexia.

I like your point that it doesn't matter were people live - the Big 10 still gets money from their network. Don't you think The Big 12 could start the same sort of network (that would include all of the great old games from the Big 8 SWC and big 12) where people from all over the country could pay the big 12 to watch the old memories. PAC 16 wouldn't have a good list of memories to sell.

PAC 10's Population is roughly 13% bigger then that of the the Big 12 - but we watch more football - so we can charge more money. They need us because they know we all watch football - They are looking for us to pay their way. Why do you think the SEC hasn't come courting?

PS: I'm in Southlake, I didn't know that kids where flocking from Texas to Mizzou because of Chase Daniels.

Also about Academics; I'm working on a joint research project that involve TAMU, UVA and Columbia. Last I checked, none play each other in football.