Ok Egypt an Israeli Blockade [Archive] - SoonerFans.com Message Boards

View Full Version : Ok Egypt an Israeli Blockade

olevetonahill

5/31/2010, 11:19 PM

So the Egyptians and the Israelis Blockade the Gaza Strip
These arseholes wanta run the Blockade, The Israelis say NO WAY jose.
the dudes on the lead ship that are nuthing more than "Bussed in Protesters" start beatin the shat out of the Israeli Commandos.
Folks get hurt and killed cause they resisted this carp . Is Israel at fault ?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100531/ap_on_an/ml_israel_fallout_analysis

Kinda like protestin the Japs whaling . Dont get in the ****ing middle and ya wont get hurt .:rolleyes: :D

AlbqSooner

6/1/2010, 06:12 AM

delhalew

6/1/2010, 09:10 AM

What that article, and most of what the media is feeding, failed to state is that Israel did not refuse to allow humanitarian aid to be delivered. They required that the cargo be delivered to an Israeli port to be inspected so that they could determine that it was indeed humanitarian aid and not missles or other weaponry before being sent to Gaza.

They have to deal with weapons flowing in to Hamas. The reaction to this shows that the world is once again turning against the Jews, including our Pres. It's pretty sad.

soonerscuba

6/1/2010, 09:32 AM

They have to deal with weapons flowing in to Hamas. The reaction to this shows that the world is once again turning against the Jews, including our Pres. It's pretty sad.Israel is a nation, not an ethnic group. One that has a detailed history of major *********gery, I'm all ears for the security purposes of banning all exports, and the import of toys, notebooks, chocolate, etc. This is done to turn to people against Hamas, an equally ****ty government. Basically, this whole idea of Israel being a benign force at worst to glorious God based holy land at best is a policy that has us sinking billions of dollars into a nation with no positive feedback. I am all for letting that whole section of the world rot, including Israel.

delhalew

6/1/2010, 09:38 AM

soonerscuba

6/1/2010, 09:50 AM

The fact is, Israels actions were not out of line. They didn't even take rifles aboard the ship (stupid). The reaction of the international community shows some darker motive, as it is not fact based.I actually agree with you in a limited scope, I think Israel was fully justified in boarding the flotilla. If Israel would be so kind as to actually allow humanitarian aide without restriction into Gaza and exports out they might have a smidgen of credibility within the international community. I just don't like the fact that defenders run behind antisemitism every time Israel does something awful. That said, the Palestinians are just as bad in ideology and at least Israel doesn't foment reactionary behavior outside of the gasbags within the American evangelical movement.

Leroy Lizard

6/1/2010, 10:23 AM

Israel is dealing with a group of people who take offers of compromise and displays of compassion as signs of weakness. What can you do?

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 10:30 AM

Dear gawd I need to just stay away from the South Oval anymore.

Israel's military boarded a civilian, humantarian flotilla in international waters. International waters. INTERNATIONAL WATERS.

Notwithstanding the ridiculousness of what Israel is doing to Palestine currently, if they needed to check the boats, wait until they're in port. Or hell, at least until they're in Israeli maritime territory.

Do you guys really think you're just so amazingly right and everyone else is wrong, including all of the countries that are upset, the head of the UN, so on and so forth? All the worlds needs to do is come to the S. Oval for the "real" skinny.

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 10:54 AM

Israel is a nation, not an ethnic group. One that has a detailed history of major *********gery, I'm all ears for the security purposes of banning all exports, and the import of toys, notebooks, chocolate, etc. This is done to turn to people against Hamas, an equally ****ty government.

You poor deluded soul. You really think that Israel is somehow equal to a terrorist group?? Well of course you do, why am I even asking!

Next thing you're going to tell us is how evil those joos are for defending themselves against armed "peace activists", right??? Oh wait, you already did. Never mind.
:rolleyes:

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 11:00 AM

Israel's military boarded a civilian, humantarian flotilla in international waters. International waters. INTERNATIONAL WATERS.
Armed Peace Activists. Armed Peace Activists. ARMED PEACE ACTIVISTS.

Upon learning of the intentions of the Gaza flotilla, the Israeli government asked the organizers to deliver their humanitarian aid first to an Israeli port where it would be inspected (for weapons) before being forwarded to Gaza. The organizers refused. “There are two possible happy endings,” a Muslim activist on board explained, “either we will reach Gaza or we will achieve martyrdom.”

Good thing Egypt doesn't blockade Gaza as well.

Oh wait, nm...

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 11:01 AM

Armed Peace Activists. Armed Peace Activists. ARMED PEACE ACTIVISTS.

If you think a bunch of chairs and knives and MAYBE a gun or two is "armed" then you're an even bigger doosh than I ever thought.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 11:02 AM

You poor deluded soul. You really think that Israel is somehow equal to a terrorist group?? Well of course you do, why am I even asking!

Next thing you're going to tell us is how evil those joos are for defending themselves against armed "peace activists", right??? Oh wait, you already did. Never mind.
:rolleyes:

DEFENDING THEMSELVES? They rappelled down onto the boats illegally! I can't believe you believe these things.

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 11:03 AM

And by chairs and knives, you mean guns loaded with ammo, right??

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 11:05 AM

DEFENDING THEMSELVES? They rappelled down onto the boats illegally! I can't believe you believe these things.So you don't believe a country should defend it's borders or its ports?? Israel's been blockaiding Gaza for years, just like Egypt has, to keep the weapons they want to kill joos out.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 11:09 AM

So you don't believe a country should defend it's borders or its ports?? Israel's been blockaiding Gaza for years, just like Egypt has, to keep the weapons they want to kill joos out.

Good call. I think the US Navy should start shooting at every boat in international waters that we don't like, too. ESPECIALLY non-military.

Something you may learn as you get older and wiser: if you pick your battles wisely, your credibility will increase.

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 11:09 AM

No wonder the anti-American left loves the floating terrorists so much...

The flotilla’s participants included the IHH, a “humanitarian relief fund” based in Turkey that has close ties to Hamas and to global jihadi groups in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Chechnya, and elsewhere, and which has also organized relief to anti-U.S. Islamic radicals in Fallujah, Iraq. A French intelligence report suggests that IHH has provided documents to terrorists, permitting them to pose as relief workers. Among the other cheerleaders — former British MP and Saddam Hussein pal George Galloway, all-purpose America and Israel hater Noam Chomsky, and John Ging, head of UNRWA, the U.N.’s agency for Palestinian support.

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 11:12 AM

Good call. I think the US Navy should start shooting at every boat in international waters that we don't like, too. ESPECIALLY non-military.

Well, if the military asks them to do something and they don't, and the folks on the boat are armed, oh and they are terrorists, oh and they beat the hell outta one of your folks, then yes, deadly force should be used.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 11:18 AM

Well, if the military asks them to do something and they don't, and the folks on the boat are armed, oh and they are terrorists, oh and they beat the hell outta one of your folks, then yes, deadly force should be used.

Terrorists?? They were terrorists!?!?! bwahahahhahaha.

I don't think the military is allowed to ask them to not be in international waters. OK, Tuba, tell you what, bring me lunch. Cuz I sed so. :pop:

Good gawd you don't know your elbow from your butthole sometimes. You know no one on the board takes you seriously, right? You must be a trip in real life.

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 11:25 AM

I don't think the military is allowed to ask them to not be in international waters.

Since they were attempting to run Israel's blockade of Gaza, they were allowed. Again, I know you're slow and don't understand what it means to protect borders and such, but that's how its done when your border consists of water.

Hell, we do it in international waters all the time to protect our shipping lanes, most recently from Somali pirates.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 11:32 AM

Since they were attempting to run Israel's blockade of Gaza, they were allowed. Again, I know you're slow and don't understand what it means to protect borders and such, but that's how its done when your border consists of water.

Hell, we do it in international waters all the time to protect our shipping lanes, most recently from Somali pirates.

Slow? Only in 40yard sprints. I think we can tell who's a little slow on the uptake here:

1. You think humantiarian aid flotillas are the same as somali pirates.
2. You think it's OK for Israel to do anything they want to any boat in international waters.
3. We all know you'd be bleating like an idiot if anyone did that to US ships to "protect" their borders.

From a friend who puts it more eloquently than I:

We'll know more when and if full details come to light. What we know now is already damning enough -- Israel boarded a civilian plane not with police but with COMMANDO UNITS trained to kill. Not in broad daylight, where much confusion could have been avoided, but in the dead of night. Predictably, given the Israeli army's history of killing civilians with impunity, nine civilians were brutally killed, dozens more injured.

That's bad enough. Then they tell stories about people with sticks and kitchen knives attacking commandos first, and you automatically believe them. All I'm saying is that no one with any real knowledge of what Israel and its army are capable of would do that. It's possible the passengers were that foolish (even though technically -- and this is no academic exercise -- they had the right to defend themselves from being illegally and violently boarded in international waters), but it doesn't strike me as very plausible.

You would have to believe many things, some of them racist as well as divorced from reality, to automatically believe the brown people were the foolish martyrs and the armed Israeli commando soldiers the innocent victims acting within their rights, except perhaps for some meaningless academic arguments, which we can have at our leisure while people continue to die from the blockade in Gaza, and more directly on ships in the Mediterranean.

As you say, this is not an indictment of Israel or its policies. It's an example of Israel and its policies, splashed all over prime time, though of course dominated by absurd Israeli apologetics (OUMallen Edit: that's YOU). And still you defend them, trying, like Mark Regev and his slimy ilk, to deflect this from the crime and outrage it was and turn it into some kind of academic misunderstanding and innocent mistake exacerbated by violent brown people who should have known better than to mess with the powers that be.

StoopTroup

6/1/2010, 11:36 AM

Instead of boarding them they should have just hit them with a few missles and sent them straight to Davy Jones Locker laddies.

http://www.atomicpopcorn.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ap_jack_sparrow.jpg

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 11:41 AM

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 11:43 AM

Predictably, given the Israeli army's history of killing civilians with impunity, nine civilians were brutally killed, dozens more injured.

You're friend, like you it seems, its delusional.

You mean nine armed and violent civilians, right?

And you are really trying to compare Israel to a terrorist group again? haha.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 11:43 AM

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 11:44 AM

You're friend, like you it seems, its delusional.

You mean nine armed and violent civilians, right?

And you are really trying to compare Israel to a terrorist group again? haha.

Nope. Not at all.

You're right. We need to be really careful of these boats armed to the TEETH with chairs. :rolleyes:

No exaggerating even a little: it absolutely terrifies me that: A) there are people out there like you that have opinions so devoid of intelligent consumption of information, and B) you are allowed to vote.

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 11:45 AM

And here's the part you're not getting: international waters, by definition are NOT a border.

Really?? Did you just join Mensa or something?? Holy shiat that's about the smartest thing you typed all damn day.

I bet you think that there is a floating line that marks Israels border on the water, don't you? Haha.

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 11:46 AM

Nope. Not at all.

You're right. We need to be really careful of these boats armed to the TEETH with chairs. :rolleyes:

So now ignoring facts to make your delusional argument make sense? I get it, its the only way it does make sense.

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 11:52 AM

No exaggerating even a little: it absolutely terrifies me that: A) there are people out there like you that have opinions so devoid of intelligent consumption of information, and B) you are allowed to vote.

Actually, I seem to be the only here throwing out any relevant facts of the situation. You do not. Infact, you ignore them to fit what appears to be an intolerant and bigoted hatred for Israel. Perhaps it is antisemitism? I dunno, but it's sad and scary that you choose to ignore such obvious facts that are readily available and choose to just parrot what someone tells you, instead of keeping an open mind and thinking for your self for once.

swardboy

6/1/2010, 11:56 AM

Israel's mistake was arming the commandos with paintball guns....won't do that again.

StoopTroup

6/1/2010, 11:58 AM

We should offer Israel Statehood IMO.

delhalew

6/1/2010, 11:59 AM

And here's the part you're not getting: international waters, by definition are NOT a border.

Besides, and this is prolly for another thread, but there's a lot to discuss about whether what the IDF is doing is legal at all. It's probably about as bad, if not worse, than apartheid.

What you are missing is that Egypt has the same blockade for the same reason. This is not about humanitarian aid (Israel has a very good record on ensuring these supplies are delivered), this about turning the world against Isreal ( and they are sending another ship with same intentions). Hopefully this time Israel goes in hot.
Hamas is at war with Israel and wants them destoyed. I wish our politicians had the will to fight wholeheartedly in our conflicts. I am a non-interventionist, but if you are going to fight, give your military a chance to have fewer causulties. If I'm Israel, I would tire of being told how to defend myself and drop the hammer.

StoopTroup

6/1/2010, 12:01 PM

We don't own the Panama Canal anymore....but I bet we'd take it over in a heartbeat if Panama declared itself a State is Islam.

SCOUT

6/1/2010, 12:04 PM

Good call. I think the US Navy should start shooting at every boat in international waters that we don't like, too. ESPECIALLY non-military.

Something you may learn as you get older and wiser: if you pick your battles wisely, your credibility will increase.

The crew members of the USS Cole would likely agree with you.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 12:04 PM

So now ignoring facts to make your delusional argument make sense? I get it, its the only way it does make sense.

OK, the facts in regards to the "arming" of the boats were this: chairs and pipes, some knives (not for assault, just knives), and POSSIBLY, but unconfirmed, a small amount of guns, all of which would be considered completely normal outfitting for boats at sea.

If they were ARMED, they'd all have rifles, grenades, suicide bombs, etc, right?

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 12:05 PM

What you are missing is that Egypt has the same blockade for the same reason. This is not about humanitarian aid (Israel has a very good record on ensuring these supplies are delivered), this about turning the world against Isreal ( and they are sending another ship with same intentions). Hopefully this time Israel goes in hot.
Hamas is at war with Israel and wants them destoyed. I wish our politicians had the will to fight wholeheartedly in our conflicts. I am a non-interventionist, but if you are going to fight, give your military a chance to have fewer causulties. If I'm Israel, I would tire of being told how to defend myself and drop the hammer.

N. Korea wants us dead, too, but we're not torpedoing their ships in international waters, now are we?

There's a damn good reason why there's such an international outcry. And it's because Israel ain't necessarily the good guys in this particular situation.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 12:06 PM

We should offer Israel Statehood IMO.

They're not? We treat them as such! :P

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 12:07 PM

Actually, I seem to be the only here throwing out any relevant facts of the situation. You do not. Infact, you ignore them to fit what appears to be an intolerant and bigoted hatred for Israel. Perhaps it is antisemitism? I dunno, but it's sad and scary that you choose to ignore such obvious facts that are readily available and choose to just parrot what someone tells you, instead of keeping an open mind and thinking for your self for once.

Tell me the compelling facts I'm so blind to, I'd LOVE to see that. I'm more than happy to change my opinion so that it accurately reflects facts.

Antisemite? That's laughable. I'm anti-governments-violently-boarding-civilian-humanitarian-ships-in-international-waters-and-as-a-result-killing-9 civiliansite.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 12:22 PM

Those damn Turkish terrorists. Everyone knows the Turks are the worst!!!

Eyewitness accounts from ships raided by Israeli commandos have cast doubt on Israel's version of events that led to the deaths of at least 10 people.

German pro-Palestinian activist Norman Paech said he had only seen wooden sticks being brandished as troops abseiled on to the deck of the ship.

Israel says its soldiers were attacked with "knives, clubs and other weapons" and opened fire in self defence.

The raid led to widespread condemnation and the UN has called for an inquiry.

"This was not an act of self-defence," said Mr Paech, a politician, as he arrived back in Berlin wrapped in a blue blanket.

"Personally I saw two and a half wooden batons that were used... There was really nothing else. We never saw any knives.

"This was an attack in international waters on a peaceful mission... This was a clear act of piracy," he added.

Mr Paech had been a passenger on the Turkish passenger ship Mavi Marmara where most, if not all, of the deaths occurred.

Fellow German activist Inge Hoeger said they had been on the ships "for peaceful purposes".

"We wanted to transport aid to Gaza," she said. "No-one had a weapon."

She added: "We were aware that this would not be a simple cruise across the sea to deliver the goods to Gaza. But we did not count on this kind of brutality."

Activist Bayram Kalyon, arriving back in Istanbul, had also been a passenger on the Mavi Marmara.

"The captain... told us 'They are firing randomly, they are breaking the windows and entering inside. So you should get out of here as soon as possible'. That was our last conversation with him."

Diplomatic sources in Ankara have said at least four of those killed were Turkish. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the assault was a "bloody massacre" and must be punished. He said Israel should not test Turkey's patience.

Here are your "facts" Tuba. Not even a GUN on board, apparently.

At least 10 people died, and 30 were wounded, when Israeli troops boarded a flotilla of ships carrying aid for Gaza. It was the ninth attempt since 2008 to break an Israeli and Egyptian blockade of the Gaza Strip by sea, but the first that has resulted in bloodshed.

How did the confrontation begin?
The six ships, travelling from Cyprus, were boarded in international waters. Commandos landed on the largest ship by descending on ropes from helicopters. They were attacked by the activists on board, and opened fire.

Who started the violence?
This is disputed. The activists say the commandos started shooting as soon as they hit the deck. Israeli officials say the commandos were attacked first. Video clips show activists wielding a baseball bat and other objects. Photographs have also been produced of metal bars and slingshots. Israel says the activists used axes, knives and fired shots from a gun taken from the soldiers.

What was purpose of the flotilla?
It wanted to deliver aid to Gaza, to break an Israeli and Egyptian blockade on the territory. According to the UN, Gaza receives about one quarter of the supplies it used to receive in the years before the blockade was tightened in 2007. The ships were carrying 10,000 tonnes of goods, including school supplies, building materials and two large electricity generators. The activists also say they wanted to make the point that, in their view, the blockade is illegal under international law.

Who organised it?
A group called Free Gaza, an umbrella organisation of activist groups from numerous countries, and a Turkish group called the IHH (Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief). The Israeli government says the IHH is closely linked to Hamas, and is a member of another organisation, the Union of the Good, which supports suicide bombings. However, the Turkish government regards the IHH as a legitimate charity, and urged Israel to let the flotilla through.

Why did Israel want to stop the flotilla?
Israel and Egypt prevent a large range of goods from reaching Gaza, in order to put pressure on the Hamas government. These include cement and scaffolding, which it says can be used to make launchers for rockets, but also a range of other goods which do not undermine Israeli security. Israel also wanted to check that the ships did not contain deliveries of weapons or cash. It offered to allow the flotilla to land in an Israeli port, and to deliver by road any goods that passed its checks.

Some previous flotillas have been allowed to reach Gaza, others have been turned round and sent back. It is not clear why this latest one was greeted by a commando-style raid. It may have been because of the size of the largest boat, the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara carrying nearly 600 passengers, which made it difficult to board by pulling up alongside.

Did Israel breach international law?
This is disputed. A Turkish draft resolution circulated at the UN Security Council described the attack as a violation of international law. Turkish foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu called the raid "tantamount to banditry and piracy" and "murder conducted by a state".

Israel's foreign ministry says that under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockaded area. It adds: "Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law."

How has the international community reacted?
There has been widespread condemnation of the violence, with several countries summoning Israeli ambassadors. The UN Security Council has issued a statement calling for a "prompt, impartial, credible and transparent" inquiry into the raid. The US, Israel's closest ally, lobbied hard to tone down the Security Council resolution and has not itself criticised Israel for its actions.

What could be the impact on the peace talks?
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has said peace talks with Israel will continue. Proximity talks, mediated by the US, resumed in May after a two-year break.

StoopTroup

6/1/2010, 12:25 PM

http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/wp-content/uploads/turkeybastera.jpg

delhalew

6/1/2010, 12:26 PM

N. Korea wants us dead, too, but we're not torpedoing their ships in international waters, now are we?

There's a damn good reason why there's such an international outcry. And it's because Israel ain't necessarily the good guys in this particular situation.

Oh...Kay...you ignored the pertinent facts in my post and went on about torpedos and Korea. As interesting as the North Korea situation may be, it is not the topic at hand. That subject change may be my fault for ending my post with a statement about our recent lack of political will, but I'm talking about Israels defense strategy.
Attacking soldiers is generally ill-advised when you claim to be on a "humanitarian" mission.

StoopTroup

6/1/2010, 12:30 PM

You had me at Torpedoes and North Korea....

http://xbradtc.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/renee-zellweger-20060228-111992.jpg

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 12:31 PM

Israel does NOT have a good record of ensuring humantiarian goods. See my copied-and-pasted post from BBC that shows Israel intentionally BLOCKS humanitarian aid to apply pressure. It's pretty common knowledge that the Palestinians aren't allowed free-flow of humanitarian aid.

You said Hamas is at war and wants Israel destroyed, as though that jsutifies the IDF's actions in this particular case. I'm saying: it doesn't. And it's the same as us shooting at or boarding any seacraft in international waters just because the destination country doesn't like us.

And you're as bad as tuba if you think it's the civilians fault for "attacking" the armed commandos when they were being illegally boarded. You have a right to protect yourself from illegal threats.

OU Adonis

6/1/2010, 12:33 PM

FYI, if you charged any kind of armed person with chairs or knives lets see how they respond.

What would an OKC PD guy do if you charged him with a knife and you don't drop it when he asks?

delhalew

6/1/2010, 12:41 PM

FYI, if you charged any kind of armed person with chairs or knives lets see how they respond.

What would an OKC PD guy do if you charged him with a knife and you don't drop it when he asks?

I've seen what OKC PD does to a homeless guy looking to sky and talking to GOD, making people "uncomfortable". If you charged them with a loaf of bread they would shoot you in the head.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 12:47 PM

FYI, if you charged any kind of armed person with chairs or knives lets see how they respond.

What would an OKC PD guy do if you charged him with a knife and you don't drop it when he asks?

That's an incomplete analogy. Here's the analogy:

The OKC PD guy kicks in the door to your hotel room in Paris, has a gun, you have a baseball bat/knife (or something similar), he points the gun at you and tells you to drop it.

Well, the safest thing to do is probably to drop the weapon and hope he doesn't hurt you. But that doesn't make it OK for him to have kicked in your door in the first place, does it?

How do you guys feel about having guns in your house for home protection? Think you should have to drop them any time someone breaks-and-enters? About the same thing: it's illegal that they entered, and you're allowed to protect yourself from assault.

delhalew

6/1/2010, 12:52 PM

Israel does NOT have a good record of ensuring humantiarian goods. See my copied-and-pasted post from BBC that shows Israel intentionally BLOCKS humanitarian aid to apply pressure. It's pretty common knowledge that the Palestinians aren't allowed free-flow of humanitarian aid.

The blockade is legal. The article you posted enforces that in maritime law you can enforce a blockade.

You said Hamas is at war and wants Israel destroyed, as though that jsutifies the IDF's actions in this particular case. I'm saying: it doesn't. And it's the same as us shooting at or boarding any seacraft in international waters just because the destination country doesn't like us.

And you're as bad as tuba if you think it's the civilians fault for "attacking" the armed commandos when they were being illegally boarded. You have a right to protect yourself from illegal threats.

I think they got what they wanted. An international incident aimed at preventing Israel from effectively defending itself.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 01:03 PM

The blockade is legal. The article you posted enforces that in maritime law you can enforce a blockade.

1. I'm not so sure the blockade is legal. We might need to wiki that or something.

I think they got what they wanted. An international incident aimed at preventing Israel from effectively defending itself.

Your opinion of what they "wanted" isn't worth any more than mine. I'm pretty sure they didn't "want" 10+ people to die.

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 01:06 PM

No doubt they wanted 1 million+ joos dead.

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 01:09 PM

But that doesn't make it OK for him to have kicked in your door in the first place, does it?

Depends, are you funded by terrorists trying to illegally enter OKC with a ship that may be carrying weapons and a room full of armed folks????

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 01:16 PM

Depends, are you funded by terrorists trying to illegally enter OKC with a ship that may be carrying weapons and a room full of armed folks????

1. What were they armed with, Tuba?

2. Please tell me which terrorist organization(s) funded these highly dangerous civilian vessels with bandaids and concrete?

3. They were still miles and miles from being anywhere illegally. Do we punish people for POSSIBLY breaking the law in the FUTURE? There were numerous other outcomes and ways to handle it other than a nighttime helicopter commando raid while they were in a legal location.

4. Again, I'm not sure the blockade is legal at all...hell, I bet reasonable minds can differ as to whether it is or not, but I'm just ASSUMING the blockade is legal.

Tulsa_Fireman

6/1/2010, 01:23 PM

They should've protected the lives of the IDF personnel and torpedoed the boat.

Rock it Kim Jong Il style.

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2009/01/CATHERINE+ZETA+JONES+DROPS+MOVIE.jpg

Oh, and boobies.

Bourbon St Sooner

6/1/2010, 01:27 PM

Tell me the compelling facts I'm so blind to, I'd LOVE to see that. I'm more than happy to change my opinion so that it accurately reflects facts.

Antisemite? That's laughable. I'm anti-governments-violently-boarding-civilian-humanitarian-ships-in-international-waters-and-as-a-result-killing-9 civiliansite.

Well, you accused everyone who defends the Israelis of hating "brown people". I saw the video that the military released and it sure looked like the guys coming down the ropes were getting beat on as soon as they hit the deck. So if the commandos came down and just started firing, don't you think people in that video would be running away from the soldiers instead of running towards them.

And that boat may have been in international waters but it had stated its intention of running the blockade. These were a bunch of Western sh!theads who thought they could do what they wanted because their Westerners and they have ****ing rights. We'll call this Darwin's theory in action. These were idiots that were where they didn't belong.

C&CDean

6/1/2010, 01:36 PM

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 01:48 PM

I think it's funny how some people pick and choose who they're prejudiced against. Me? I pretty much hate everybody.

Except the Jews.

Alls I know is this: An armed-to-the-teeth boat stops you (like they've been doing for quite a while now and it's not just the Jews doing it) and wants to search you for weapons. Check. Then, when they board your boat, you pick up chairs and bottles and **** and start to attack them. Check. They defend themselves and kill a few knuckleheads. Check.

WTF is the problem here?

Heh. Agreed that the entire thing was almost laughably predictable before it happened.

soonerscuba

6/1/2010, 01:49 PM

I think it's funny how some people pick and choose who they're prejudiced against. Me? I pretty much hate everybody.

Except the Jews.

Alls I know is this: An armed-to-the-teeth boat stops you (like they've been doing for quite a while now and it's not just the Jews doing it) and wants to search you for weapons. Check. Then, when they board your boat, you pick up chairs and bottles and **** and start to attack them. Check. They defend themselves and kill a few knuckleheads. Check.

WTF is the problem here?I could see how a helicopter raid in the middle of the night dropping armed commandos could be seen as something other than a routine search. The people behind these boats got exactly what they wanted from Israel, and Israel was dumb enough to give it to them.

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 01:50 PM

1. What were they armed with, Tuba?guns.

2. Please tell me which terrorist organization(s) funded these highly dangerous civilian vessels with bandaids and concrete?the IHH, run by a saudi terrorist org.
(http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/terror-finance-flotilla)

3. They were still miles and miles from being anywhere illegally. Do we punish people for POSSIBLY breaking the law in the FUTURE? There were numerous other outcomes and ways to handle it other than a nighttime helicopter commando raid while they were in a legal location.Again, ignoring basic facts such as where the "flotilla" was going, and that it was trying to run a blockade. You seem unable to to grasp that point for some reason.

4. Again, I'm not sure the blockade is legal at all...hell, I bet reasonable minds can differ as to whether it is or not, but I'm just ASSUMING the blockade is legal.Well we (USA) say it's legal, and Egypt also does it and says its legal, so I guess its legal. Tough ****.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 01:52 PM

Well, you accused everyone who defends the Israelis of hating "brown people". I saw the video that the military released and it sure looked like the guys coming down the ropes were getting beat on as soon as they hit the deck. So if the commandos came down and just started firing, don't you think people in that video would be running away from the soldiers instead of running towards them.

And that boat may have been in international waters but it had stated its intention of running the blockade. These were a bunch of Western sh!theads who thought they could do what they wanted because their Westerners and they have ****ing rights. We'll call this Darwin's theory in action. These were idiots that were where they didn't belong.

1. You're allowed to be in international waters. They "belonged" there.
2. That was a post from someone else, as I disclaimed it, but even if I had said that, I'm not sure how that makes me an antisemite.

I have no idea the context of that video. But again, those boats were basically being attacked illegally. The UN Security Council even condemned the actions today. What more do you need?

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 01:54 PM

The UN Security Council even condemned the actions today. What more do you need?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

You can't make **** like this up, can you???

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 01:58 PM

guns.

the IHH, run by a saudi terrorist org.
(http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/terror-finance-flotilla)
Again, ignoring basic facts such as where the "flotilla" was going, and that it was trying to run a blockade. You seem unable to to grasp that point for some reason.

Well we (USA) say it's legal, and Egypt also does it and says its legal, so I guess its legal. Tough ****.

READ something. Read the BBC report. The only gunfire from the flotillas from from a gun taken from an IDF person. Now, I'm not syaing there wasn't a gun anywhere on any of the boats, but for you to say they were "armed" with "guns" is imbecilic at best.

You quote blogs, I quote the BBC:
A group called Free Gaza, an umbrella organisation of activist groups from numerous countries, and a Turkish group called the IHH (Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief). The Israeli government says the IHH is closely linked to Hamas, and is a member of another organisation, the Union of the Good, which supports suicide bombings. However, the Turkish government regards the IHH as a legitimate charity, and urged Israel to let the flotilla through.

And here's what you simply do not understand: they had not done aything illegal yet. Assuming the blockade is legit, they weren't even that close to the line yet! I'll say this for you as simply as possible:

THEY WERE IN A LEGAL LOCATION. If the IDF wanted to blockade them out when they approached the maritime border, then I guess they could have given that a try. But they didn't do that, did they? They sought out the flotilla in INTERNATIONAL waters and then BOARDED (not blocked, but violently boarded, commando-style) those boats while they weren't breaking the blockade.

This would be akin to you going to jail for assault because you said you were going to kick soemone's ***. You have to actually DO it (or attempt to do it) first.

I don't expect you to understand. I'll continue the discussions with others on the thread because it's an interesting and important issue.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 02:07 PM

In other news, Tuba made the ignore list. It's nice!

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 02:11 PM

And here's what you simply do not understand: they had not done aything illegal yet.
I'm guessing you think we should let AQ and every other terrorist group in the world come freely into this country, and only stop them if they happen to do anything illegal after they get here as well???

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 02:11 PM

In other news, Tuba made the ignore list. It's nice!I guess he couldn't handle getting his @$$ handed to him anymore.

Pu$$y. :)

SCOUT

6/1/2010, 02:16 PM

This would be akin to you going to jail for assault because you said you were going to kick soemone's ***. You have to actually DO it (or attempt to do it) first.

Why don't you threaten the President, say that you are going to bomb a plane, or exclaim that you are going to attack people in a crowded place and let me know if you stand by this one.

StoopTroup

6/1/2010, 02:16 PM

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

You can't make **** like this up, can you???

I'm sure someone can. Sometimes what some folks make-up around here makes more sense than some things you post links to Tuba.

I understand your passion sometimes and even respect your intellect...but so much of it just seems angry, hateful and Glenn Beckish.

Our Countries problems are so bad that stuff like this blockade...which clearly shows they were attacked BTW and had every right to defend themselves, is really only our business as the Suez Area and disruptions to that area can have a huge economic effect on to many hard working people and companies if we or Israel allow these idiots to go unchecked.

Like I said earlier...if they don't like it....quit boarding them and just start sinking them.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 02:27 PM

Why don't you threaten the President, say that you are going to bomb a plane, or exclaim that you are going to attack people in a crowded place and let me know if you stand by this one.

It's a specific crime to do those things. It's not a crime to say, "later on, I might threaten the president." While that would be dumb to say or port on the internet, you have to actually PROCEED with the threat.

(And actually, it's not always a crime to say you're going to attack people in a crowded place. First Amendment rulings have allowed activists to say "We'll take the streets back later!" paraphrased, meaning they were coming later on to physically defy the police. The Supreme Court allowed that.)

It's not a crime to say, "In the future, I'm going to try to dock in Gaza."

StoopTroup

6/1/2010, 02:37 PM

Gaza is a septic tank now

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 03:19 PM

Sometimes what some folks make-up around here makes more sense than some things you post links to Tuba.
Like? got an example?? Probably not, just something else that's "made up".

The only link I posted was to the weekly standard, which is a political magazine outlining the history of the terrorist group which funded this little flotilla stunt in order to provoke Israel.

StoopTroup

6/1/2010, 03:21 PM

lol.

Do I really have to? Matter of fact...I'm not gonna...it will just be easier to say you're right about everything....lol

OklahomaTuba

6/1/2010, 03:31 PM

lol.

Do I really have to? Matter of fact...I'm not gonna...it will just be easier to say you're right about everything....lolNo, of course you don't have too, i'd just assume that if you're going to come after me with something you might have one example backing up what you're saying. That's all.

And not saying I am right all the time. Just 99.99% of it. ;)

StoopTroup

6/1/2010, 03:39 PM

No, of course you don't have too, i'd just assume that if you're going to come after me with something you might have one example backing up what you're saying. That's all.

And not saying I am right all the time. Just 99.99% of it. ;)

LOL. I'm not coming at ya. I'd rather just meet for beers and agree to disagree and then stick you with the bar tab.

soonerloyal

6/1/2010, 03:55 PM

C&CDean

6/1/2010, 04:03 PM

We can always count on the uber-left crabby bitch for some good tripe, can't we? I respect consistency in a person.

Condescending Sooner

6/1/2010, 04:08 PM

It's a specific crime to do those things. It's not a crime to say, "later on, I might threaten the president." While that would be dumb to say or port on the internet, you have to actually PROCEED with the threat.

(And actually, it's not always a crime to say you're going to attack people in a crowded place. First Amendment rulings have allowed activists to say "We'll take the streets back later!" paraphrased, meaning they were coming later on to physically defy the police. The Supreme Court allowed that.)

It's not a crime to say, "In the future, I'm going to try to dock in Gaza."

You really need to just stop. No one agrees with you and your posts make little sense.

OUMallen

6/1/2010, 05:27 PM

You really need to just stop. No one agrees with you and your posts make little sense.

No need to be so condescnd- oh. NM.

delhalew

6/1/2010, 05:32 PM

1. You're allowed to be in international waters. They "belonged" there.
2. That was a post from someone else, as I disclaimed it, but even if I had said that, I'm not sure how that makes me an antisemite.

I have no idea the context of that video. But again, those boats were basically being attacked illegally. The UN Security Council even condemned the actions today. What more do you need?

Doode...I'm gonna leave most of that alone, and focus on the last paragragh. "Context" of the video? Hmmm.
The UN is a cancer on this earth. Those powder blue helmets have the magical power to make you useless as soon as you put it on.
"Security Council"...really? Look who is on the security council. Better yet, look up who is on the council of human rights or WTF ever it is called. The UN exists to further secular progressive NWO bull**** and protect violent dictatorships. AND we pay more to keep the lights on than any other country. F*CK the UN in it's useless f*cking ear.

MR2-Sooner86

6/1/2010, 10:54 PM

I saw we have open war in the Middle East! Last country standing is the winnah! It'll settle this once and for all. Since the Joos are outnumbered they get a five second head start. And...

GO!

Stitch Face

6/2/2010, 10:04 AM

Israel's military boarded a civilian, humantarian flotilla in international waters. International waters. INTERNATIONAL WATERS.

During WWII the US blockaded Germany and Japan in international waters.

International waters. INTERNATIONAL WATERS.

It's like, how you do things when confronting someone at sea. International/maritime laws do not require a nation to wait until attackers/infiltrators/martyrs-masquerading-as-peace-activists enter your own waters before stopping them. International water is not some sort of protected base where everyone is safe to do as they please. It's more like no man's land where you just might get what's coming to you if you are clearly on course to invade someone's border and trying to stir up some global political shenanigans.

NormanPride

6/2/2010, 10:43 AM

Lame. Idiots tested Israel, and Israel responded violently because they don't give a ****. The international community will be mad for a few weeks, then think about something else. Yes, there was a better way for Israel to handle this, but did you expect anything else? This is their MO. Anyone who thinks they're anywhere near "good" is stupid, but I don't really blame them. They're not exactly in an easy position.

If the humanitarians had really cared about delivering supplies and not starting ****, they would have waited until they were cleared to cross the blockade. The raid only came after they declared intent to run it, right?

Leroy Lizard

6/2/2010, 10:56 AM

They could have ended up like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4TCqcWkDM0

Norman Pride is right, though. We have pretty much forgotten about North Korea's sinking of South Korean warship.

Bourbon St Sooner

6/2/2010, 11:02 AM

The moral of the story is if you don't want your nose chopped off, don't stick it where it doesn't belong.

Why aren't these do-gooders marching up to the Tibetan border and threatening to cross the line? Because they know they'll all be shot on sight with no questions asked!

MrJimBeam

6/2/2010, 11:20 AM

3 million Israelis surrounded by 15 million arab muslims who have one goal, kill all the Jews, and we wonder why the IDF wants to know what's on those ships. Hell, there are only 13 millions Jews left in the world, now wonder they're touchy about smuggled weapons.

And I'm glad the Israelis don't give a **** what the rest of the world thinks. They can't afford to care. The next war Israel loses will be the last war Israel loses.

Stitch Face

6/2/2010, 12:10 PM

Yeah, damn that 85-year-old Holocaust survivor gal on board trying to bring aid and comfort to them dayum Palestinneys. What does she know about human kindness and doing the right thing, anyhow?

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a14/KevAndLori/Smileys/slap.gif

If you think their intent was to bring anyone "aid and comfort" you are naive and wrong. One of the leaders of the little armada already admitted their goal was to break the blockade or die as martyrs, i.e. make a political statement while drumming up sympathy for the PLO and stoking antipathy against Israel. It was propaganda, pure and simple, and you bought it.

The only thing they failed to do was put a wounded puppy onboard to create more sympathy among the gullible.

OUMallen

6/2/2010, 12:57 PM

I haven't seen that anywhere Stitch. Link?

Leroy Lizard

6/2/2010, 02:15 PM

This is somewhat related:

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News/2010/June/2/Palestinian-Israelis%20from%20Gaza%20Aid%20Flotilla%20Face%20E xtended%20Detention.htm

Here is the Wiki bio on Shaikh Raed Salah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raed_Salah

Not exactly a Red Cross volunteer.

MR2-Sooner86

6/2/2010, 02:31 PM

Again, why are we arguing about this? Let them go to war and settle it.

Three million Joos vs 15 million rag heads? My money is on Israel. I say we have a pay-per-view event on the war with live bets.

C&CDean

6/2/2010, 02:36 PM

Why do you morons keep typing "joos" when the word "jews" has the exact same number of letters? Anti-semites? Ignoramouses? Trying to be cute? WTF is it?

To me, it's damned disrespectful to one of our strongest allies, and disrespectful to the Jewish folks on the board.

That being said, call the folks who purposely kill thousands of innocent "infidels" a year in the name of allah anything you damn well want. Especially if you preface it with "murderous cocksucking."

NormanPride

6/2/2010, 02:54 PM

We type moran, brazillian, wimmen, babby, pole, and whatever else there is. The Jews aren't exactly getting unique treatment. And I wonder if they think we're allies...

Stitch Face

6/2/2010, 04:26 PM

I haven't seen that anywhere Stitch. Link?

http://article.nationalreview.com/435253/flotillas-and-falsehoods/mona-charen

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/three-of-four-turks-killed-in-jihad-flotilla-raid-had-declared-desire-for-islamic-martyrdom-another.html

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/05/gaza-humanitarian-flotilla-ruse-for.html

Yesterday, I was following the news agencies, and they reported the threats of the Zionists to detain the convoy and to prevent it from reaching Gaza. On the other side, there are people armed with faith and resolve, who chant – even while hearing the threats: 'Khaybar, Khaybar, oh Jews, the army of Muhammad will return.' A woman stood on the deck, and said: "We await one of two good things – to achieve martyrdom or to reach the shore of Gaza."

"Yesterday, the commander of the fleet said: 'We will not allow the Zionists to come near us, and we will wage resistance against them.' With what will they wage resistance? With their fingernails. These are people who wish to be martyred for the sake of Allah. As much as they want to reach Gaza, the other option is more desirable to them.

"We pray to Allah that they be awarded both good things: That they reach the shore of Gaza safe and sound, and that they be granted martyrdom, along with us, on the walls of the Al-Aqsa Mosque – as conquerors."

OUMallen

6/2/2010, 04:40 PM

Cool. I'm not so sure the quote from one person totally negates the idea of the entire flotilla. But thanks for the link.

Leroy Lizard

6/2/2010, 05:16 PM

http://article.nationalreview.com/435253/flotillas-and-falsehoods/mona-charen

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/three-of-four-turks-killed-in-jihad-flotilla-raid-had-declared-desire-for-islamic-martyrdom-another.html

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/05/gaza-humanitarian-flotilla-ruse-for.html

I think "Zionist" is an even lamer epithet than "Gooner."

Leroy Lizard

6/2/2010, 05:20 PM

Cool. I'm not so sure the quote from one person totally negates the idea of the entire flotilla. But thanks for the link.

If the content of Mona Charen's column is even 80% true, the Israelis are fully justified in my opinion. The more I read, the more convinced I am that this supposed humanitarian mission was a charade.

85Sooner

6/2/2010, 05:31 PM

If you think a bunch of chairs and knives and MAYBE a gun or two is "armed" then you're an even bigger doosh than I ever thought.

Come on over and throw a knife at someone and see the response. BANG

If their stupid enough to bring a knife to a gun fight, so be the results.

SoonerStormchaser

6/2/2010, 05:40 PM

CRIPPLE FIGHT!!!!!

OUMallen

6/2/2010, 05:45 PM

Come on over and throw a knife at someone and see the response. BANG

If their stupid enough to bring a knife to a gun fight, so be the results.

You know that the law...even American law...completely disagrees with you?

Leroy Lizard

6/2/2010, 05:50 PM

Don't antagonize people with guns, especially if they hate you.

Did the flotilla go looking for trouble? If so, mission accomplished.

StoopTroup

6/2/2010, 05:51 PM

**** The Flotilla!

Stitch Face

6/2/2010, 06:27 PM

"Flotilla" looks like a tex-mex snack.

Turd_Ferguson

6/2/2010, 06:30 PM

I'd like some Flotilla con queso with cheese on it...

Stitch Face

6/2/2010, 08:04 PM

I'd like some Flotilla con queso with cheese on it...

That's a lot of cheese

Turd_Ferguson

6/2/2010, 08:06 PM

That's a lot of cheeseThat's how ya get extra cheese at a messican restaurant.

Tulsa_Fireman

6/2/2010, 09:30 PM

http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/El%20Guapo.jpg

Eet's a FLOTILLA, El Guapo!

BU BEAR

6/2/2010, 09:50 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6sAEYpHF24&feature=player_embedded

Today's "Peace" activists... now come with 50% more stun grenade on every ship.

Leroy Lizard

6/2/2010, 11:09 PM

This one is real graphic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz5OciG0ewA&feature=related

If anything, the IDF showed restraint in not shooting everyone on board.

Stitch Face

6/3/2010, 08:26 AM

If anything, I've shown restraint in not shooting everyone on the board.

:eek:

OUMallen

6/3/2010, 09:24 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6sAEYpHF24&feature=player_embedded

Today's "Peace" activists... now come with 50% more stun grenade on every ship.

Where do you think the stun grenade came from?

BU BEAR

6/3/2010, 10:23 AM

Where do you think the stun grenade came from?

I do not know. But, the "peace" activists had it before the IDF rolled along side the boat. That much is pretty clear. If you are trying to insinuate that Al-Queda-light was returning the stun grenade to the IDF, then you need to rethink that. Those things don't just sit around to allow some one to pick em up and toss them back. You can see that much on the film. There is a nice delay between the time the stun grenade falls and later explodes when it hits boat carrying the members of the Shayetet 13.

Maybe they picked up the grenades at the Muslim Brotherhood Militant Surplus store. Or maybe they sell them in bulk at the Ankara Muhammad-Mart.

Another problem for those who might suggest that the stun grenades were initially introduced to the boat by the IDF is that the passengers on the other five boats--on which there were no physical altercations--did not report stun grenades being used on them.

sooner n houston

6/3/2010, 11:41 AM

Heard a good analogy last night. If the Arabs were to lay down their arms, there would be peace in the ME. If Israel laid down their arms there would be no more Israel!

OklahomaTuba

6/3/2010, 11:52 AM

Heard a good analogy last night. If the Arabs were to lay down their arms, there would be peace in the ME. If Israel laid down their arms there would be no more Israel!

Sad but true.

OUMallen

6/3/2010, 12:12 PM

I do not know. But, the "peace" activists had it before the IDF rolled along side the boat. That much is pretty clear. If you are trying to insinuate that Al-Queda-light was returning the stun grenade to the IDF, then you need to rethink that. Those things don't just sit around to allow some one to pick em up and toss them back. You can see that much on the film. There is a nice delay between the time the stun grenade falls and later explodes when it hits boat carrying the members of the Shayetet 13.

Maybe they picked up the grenades at the Muslim Brotherhood Militant Surplus store. Or maybe they sell them in bulk at the Ankara Muhammad-Mart.

Another problem for those who might suggest that the stun grenades were initially introduced to the boat by the IDF is that the passengers on the other five boats--on which there were no physical altercations--did not report stun grenades being used on them.

Good gawd genius, if there's no altercation, why would they use stun grenades?

Reported fact: the only gun used against IDF forces was...an IDF gun taken from an IDF dude.

What's harder to believe:

1. Military commandos geared for taking over a boat/crowd control have stun grenades.

2. a highly-publicized international humantarian flotilla with no other offensive/military weapons (I have trouble believing poles, chairs, and kitchen knives can be called offensive weapons, more like just what they had on board) have a bucket full of highly specialized, hard-to-find stun grenades.

Just sayin'.

I'm sure these guys just had buckets of stun grenades hanging around ready to use.

SCOUT

6/3/2010, 12:16 PM

Good gawd genius, if there's no altercation, why would they use stun grenades?

Reported fact: the only gun used against IDF forces was...an IDF gun taken from an IDF dude.

What's harder to believe:

1. Military commandos geared for taking over a boat/crowd control have stun grenades.

2. a highly-publicized international humantarian flotilla with no other offensive/military weapons (I have trouble believing poles, chairs, and kitchen knives can be called offensive weapons, more like just what they had on board) have a bucket full of highly specialized, hard-to-find stun grenades.

Just sayin'.

I'm sure these guys just had buckets of stun grenades hanging around ready to use.
If you watch the 1:10 mark of the video Leroy posted you will see the package that the flash grenades came in.

Which is more believable:

1) Israeli Commandos go into an altercation with their flash grenades still in the plastic package
2) "Peace Keepers" had to cut out their new shiny toy to throw at the evil Zionists

Sooner98

6/3/2010, 12:18 PM

Moral of the story: If you don't want to die, don't attack armed Israeli commandos with metal rods and knives.

The end.

olevetonahill

6/3/2010, 12:23 PM

OklahomaTuba

6/3/2010, 01:56 PM

Wonder if the Jew haters would have a problem with America stopping a plane or boat full of AQ funded "peace activists" before it reached our territory???

Yeah, probably, nm.

Leroy Lizard

6/3/2010, 02:27 PM

Good gawd genius, if there's no altercation, why would they use stun grenades?

Reported fact: the only gun used against IDF forces was...an IDF gun taken from an IDF dude.

What's harder to believe:

1. Military commandos geared for taking over a boat/crowd control have stun grenades.

2. a highly-publicized international humantarian flotilla with no other offensive/military weapons (I have trouble believing poles, chairs, and kitchen knives can be called offensive weapons, more like just what they had on board) have a bucket full of highly specialized, hard-to-find stun grenades.

Just sayin'.

I'm sure these guys just had buckets of stun grenades hanging around ready to use.

Enough already! Look at the videos. Do those look like peace advocates?

BU BEAR

6/3/2010, 02:31 PM

Good gawd genius, if there's no altercation, why would they use stun grenades?

You might find this hard to believe, but a terrorist parading as a peace activist might just want to cause a scene. Or maybe, as this passenger expressed, to become a "martyr." Parenthetically, the song about Khaibar is a song about a city in Arabia in which Muhammad murdered all the Jewish men. Sound like an peace activists you know? If so, run the other direction next time you see them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk&feature=player_embedded

Why does a guy blow himself up outside of a stadium after he fails to gain admission? Jihad produces motivations and results that are difficult for us to understand. Sometimes, the success of the jihadi's mission is secondary to his achieving death. So, it is certainly possible that some wanted to provoke a response from the IDF for the dual purpose of martyrdom and, with the absence of heavy weapons, make Israel look bad. Granted, with most of the world's default button being contra-Israel, it is no large chore to instigate a flood of negative criticism against the Jewish state.

OUMallen

6/3/2010, 04:46 PM

Mallen , Yer missing the point here bro.
They WANTED the IDF to do exactly what they did, They then resisted to the point force was needed to control the situation. then gave up and said " WE are only Peace lovers on a Humanitarian mission":rolleyes:

Since then Egypt has backed down , which was the Militants goal any way, plus to try to bring International pressure on Israel.
Now they say they are gonna do it again .

Israel has said they have no prob with the Aid . they just want to check it for weapons 1st.
Pay tention

Pretty sure they didn't want anyone SHOT. I'm not saying they weren't looking to make a scene. But to say they were a bunch of arabic lookin doods with tons of weapons looking to fight isn't accurate. At all.

And I'm still not sure why everyone thinks it's OK for IDF to helicopter-drop in the middle of the night out of their territorial waters onto non-military boats. That's called piracy when anyone else does it.

BU BEAR

6/3/2010, 05:02 PM

Pretty sure they didn't want anyone SHOT. I'm not saying they weren't looking to make a scene. But to say they were a bunch of arabic lookin doods with tons of weapons looking to fight isn't accurate. At all.

Your strawman: "But to say they were a bunch of arabic lookin doods with tons of weapons looking to fight..." I do not think I ever said that. I doubt that stun grenades would qualify as "tons of weapons" in anyone's book. If anything, I have said that they were lightly armed (poles, stun grenades, broken glass bottles, knives, etc... in order to achieve one or both of martyrdom and/or bad PR for the IDF.

And I'm still not sure why everyone thinks it's OK for IDF to helicopter-drop in the middle of the night out of their territorial waters onto non-military boats. That's called piracy when anyone else does it.

A nation-state need not wait until a lawful blockade is breached before making efforts to intercept, interdict, or inspect the vessels trying to breach the blockade if the vessel makes it clear that it intends to try to breach the blockade. The blockade of Gaza is a legal action by both Israel and Egypt. The flotilla made its intent known by ignoring several prior warnings. And so it follows that Israel's interception was also legal.

The above correctly states law and practice. If it did not, then any outlaw could hide out in "international waters" with any cargo (including nuclear and chemical weapons) for any nefarious purpose. The way you incorrectly tried to state a rule of international law would have international waters operate as an area of immunity like "home base" in a kid's hide-n-seek game.

BU BEAR

6/3/2010, 06:11 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSAxAj2KIdU&feature=player_embedded

The man said he wants to be martyr, Mallen

olevetonahill

6/3/2010, 06:33 PM

Mallen is a Pretty good dude most of the time. However hes acting a lot like Limptard in this thread :D

Turd_Ferguson

6/3/2010, 07:52 PM

Pretty sure they didn't want anyone SHOT. I'm not saying they weren't looking to make a scene. But to say they were a bunch of arabic lookin doods with tons of weapons looking to fight isn't accurate. At all.

And I'm still not sure why everyone thinks it's OK for IDF to helicopter-drop in the middle of the night out of their territorial waters onto non-military boats. That's called piracy when anyone else does it.Your being bocephus....I mean, facetious...right?

delhalew

6/3/2010, 08:07 PM

I'll say it again. Anyone who will ignore the facts, the law, and even a damn video, must have darker motivations for trying to blame Israel for this incident.I would point out that our President MAY be an antisemite, but he has no idea how to stand by any of our allies. Unless we are now allies with Venezuela, Cuba, China...uhgg. Whatever.

Turd_Ferguson

6/3/2010, 08:11 PM

OUMallen

6/4/2010, 10:55 AM

OUMallen

6/4/2010, 11:00 AM

Your strawman: "But to say they were a bunch of arabic lookin doods with tons of weapons looking to fight..." I do not think I ever said that. I doubt that stun grenades would qualify as "tons of weapons" in anyone's book. If anything, I have said that they were lightly armed (poles, stun grenades, broken glass bottles, knives, etc... in order to achieve one or both of martyrdom and/or bad PR for the IDF.

A nation-state need not wait until a lawful blockade is breached before making efforts to intercept, interdict, or inspect the vessels trying to breach the blockade if the vessel makes it clear that it intends to try to breach the blockade. The blockade of Gaza is a legal action by both Israel and Egypt. The flotilla made its intent known by ignoring several prior warnings. And so it follows that Israel's interception was also legal.

The above correctly states law and practice. If it did not, then any outlaw could hide out in "international waters" with any cargo (including nuclear and chemical weapons) for any nefarious purpose. The way you incorrectly tried to state a rule of international law would have international waters operate as an area of immunity like "home base" in a kid's hide-n-seek game.

1. It's not a reported fact that the flotilla had stun grenades, which is asinine to assume. Further, if they HAD stun grenades, why not tasers, or real weapons? It doesn't make ANY sense to assume that.

2. "bad PR for the IDF"

This is interesting. Bad PR. Why is the PR bad? Why are people angry and upset? Why is Turkey furious? Is it because the IDF is simply doing right? Of course not. It's because the IDF is killing civilians in international water.

3. "And so it follows that Israel's interception was also legal."
No, it doesn't. Leave the law to the lawyers, homey. I can't have you arrested for saying, "Hmm, I think I'm going to steal your car later. Yep, gonna do it."

Why didn't the IDF wait until they were in Israeli territory? Or until they were breaching the blockade?

THAT'S THE POINT. I don't think anyone would get upset if the IDF stopped the boats in Israeli water, searched them, then brought them to a port, searched more thoroughly, then sent the stuff on to Gaza. That would be, while crappy, acceptable. Business as usual.

What you guys don't seem to understand is that this is a controversy because they went WAY beyond the accepted norm here.

NormanPride

6/4/2010, 11:15 AM

I don't think that's way beyond accepted norm. The boat had declared intent to run the blockade. At that point it had declared itself an enemy, right? Then it's not too far to imagine that the IDF would preempt their tomfoolery and prevent any extra shenanigans they had planned once they got into Israeli waters. They hadn't been searched, so there was no guarantee it wasn't some sort of trap.

If the boat had just let themselves be searched and cooperated, then they would have gotten through without problems. But that's not what they wanted. They wanted to instigate Israel and cause bad press, and they didn't want to risk being allowed peacefully through the blockade. That would be counterproductive. So they acted intentionally to stir up trouble.

Leroy Lizard

6/4/2010, 11:29 AM

2. "bad PR for the IDF"

This is interesting. Bad PR. Why is the PR bad? Why are people angry and upset? Why is Turkey furious? Is it because the IDF is simply doing right? Of course not. It's because the IDF is killing civilians in international water.

How about: The actual facts surrounding this incident were badly misrepresented in the world press.

Watch the video.

Look OUMallen, you got suckered. It isn't your fault; a lot of people jumped all over the IDF because of the way the press reported the incident.

But the videos are unmistakeably clear as to what really happened. There is no point in trying to excuse the conduct of the "peace" activists.

3. "And so it follows that Israel's interception was also legal."
No, it doesn't. Leave the law to the lawyers, homey. I can't have you arrested for saying, "Hmm, I think I'm going to steal your car later. Yep, gonna do it."

Homey is a lawyer.

Why didn't the IDF wait until they were in Israeli territory? Or until they were breaching the blockade?

Early interception is likely tactically beneficial.

THAT'S THE POINT. I don't think anyone would get upset if the IDF stopped the boats in Israeli water, searched them, then brought them to a port, searched more thoroughly, then sent the stuff on to Gaza. That would be, while crappy, acceptable. Business as usual.

What if the peace activists and press had behaved in the same manner? The IDF would have fared no better.

What you guys don't seem to understand is that this is a controversy because they went WAY beyond the accepted norm here.

The IDF is fighting an enemy that straps dynamite to his chest and targets civilians. That isn't exactly the norm either. When fighting such an enemy, you need to get a little nasty yourself.

OUMallen

6/4/2010, 11:34 AM

I don't think that's way beyond accepted norm.

So Turkey, the UN Security Council, basically everyone (even the US giving half a chide) thinks it's a big deal.

But the S.O. thinks it's close enough to normal to not care. Moreover, that the IDF was fully jsutified.

I'll tell you where I disconnect on some of this too, is that: I think it's a complete and utter tragedy that 9 people died. Death is a big deal. No one else seems to care about that.

OUMallen

6/4/2010, 11:39 AM

How about: The actual facts surrounding this incident were badly misrepresented in the world press.

Watch the video.

Look OUMallen, you got suckered. It isn't your fault; a lot of people jumped all over the IDF because of the way the press reported the incident.

But the videos are unmistakeably clear as to what really happened. There is no point in trying to excuse the conduct of the "peace" activists.

Homey is a lawyer.

Early interception is likely tactically beneficial.

What if the peace activists and press had behaved in the same manner? The IDF would have fared no better.

The IDF is fighting an enemy that straps dynamite to his chest and targets civilians. That isn't exactly the norm either. When fighting such an enemy, you need to get a little nasty yourself.

1. BU apparently is NOT a lawyer of he/she would not have said that.

2. Suckered? How so? Israel arguably has the most advanced spin-machine on the planet. (How else do you think they get away with controlling all of the borders of a sorta-sovereign region, all of the in-and-out, yet manages not to have to treat them as an occupied territory?) The Free Gaza organization certainly doesn't.

3. The videos ARE clear. Those people on the boats fought with the commandos, no doubt about it. No one is arguing that.

4. You can't skip my question. It's beneficial? No. Tell me why they didn't wait until an acceptable time to do what they did? It's beneficial for the government to arrest people before they commit crimes, too. But we don't do that. It's beneficial for the Mexican police to arrest Americans in San Antonio. But they don't do that either.

Your last points don't make sense to me. Not that you're a dummy, I might be.

Leroy Lizard

6/4/2010, 11:40 AM

So Turkey, the UN Security Council, basically everyone (even the US giving half a chide) thinks it's a big deal.

But the S.O. thinks it's close enough to normal to not care. Moreover, that the IDF was fully jsutified.

I'll tell you where I disconnect on some of this too, is that: I think it's a complete and utter tragedy that 9 people died. Death is a big deal. No one else seems to care about that.

If the people on the boats didn't want anyone to die, they should have acted in a reasonable manner. Once you start attacking Israeli soldiers, the outcome is going to be pretty easy to predict.

Leroy Lizard

6/4/2010, 11:48 AM

3. The videos ARE clear. Those people on the boats fought with the commandos, no doubt about it. No one is arguing that.

And this is the type of spin that has caused the problem. They just didn't fight with commandos. They vastly outnumbered them and attacked them with weapons. In some of the frames you can see five or six of them hitting a soldier lying down on the deck. They even threw one of them over the side of the boat.

But, we will just say that they "fought with commandos," like it's a boxing match. Spin, spin, spin.

4. You can't skip my question. It's beneficial? No. Tell me why they didn't wait until an acceptable time to do what they did? It's beneficial for the government to arrest people before they commit crimes, too. But we don't do that.

It's beneficial for the Mexican police to arrest Americans in San Antonio. But they don't do that either.

The IDF was not there to arrest anyone, just inspect to make sure that the intentions of the activists were genuine. Police do that all the time. Sometimes they wait until a crime is committed, sometimes they act earlier.

Your last points don't make sense to me. Not that you're a dummy, I might be.

The manner in which the enemy fights Israel forces the country to take extreme precautions.

OUMallen

6/4/2010, 11:56 AM

And this is the type of spin that has caused the problem. They just didn't fight with commandos. They vastly outnumbered them and attacked them with weapons. In some of the frames you can see five or six of them hitting a soldier lying down on the deck. They even threw one of them over the side of the boat.

But, we will just say that they "fought with commandos," like it's a boxing match. Spin, spin, spin.

They were being attacked on the level of piracy by military with guns. Why do you skip over that part, like it's OK? They don't have the right to defend themselves from a midnight attack?

The IDF was not there to arrest anyone, just inspect to make sure that the intentions of the activists were genuine. Police do that all the time. Sometimes they wait until a crime is committed, sometimes they act earlier.

OK this is where I win and you lose. You don't drop in from helicopters at 2AM for that purpose and YOU know it. Who's been suckered? Who's believing the spin?

The manner in which the enemy fights Israel forces the country to take extreme precautions.
Against the enemy, perhaps. Not against declared humanitarian flotillas in international waters.

olevetonahill

6/4/2010, 11:57 AM

1. BU apparently is NOT a lawyer of he/she would not have said that.

2. Suckered? How so? Israel arguably has the most advanced spin-machine on the planet. (How else do you think they get away with controlling all of the borders of a sorta-sovereign region, all of the in-and-out, yet manages not to have to treat them as an occupied territory?) The Free Gaza organization certainly doesn't.

3. The videos ARE clear. Those people on the boats fought with the commandos, no doubt about it. No one is arguing that.

4. You can't skip my question. It's beneficial? No. Tell me why they didn't wait until an acceptable time to do what they did? It's beneficial for the government to arrest people before they commit crimes, too. But we don't do that. It's beneficial for the Mexican police to arrest Americans in San Antonio. But they don't do that either.

Your last points don't make sense to me. Not that you're a dummy, I might be.

I think Ya both are Dummies:P

Leroy Lizard

6/4/2010, 12:50 PM

They were being attacked on the level of piracy by military with guns. Why do you skip over that part, like it's OK? They don't have the right to defend themselves from a midnight attack?

The intentions of the boarding were clear, unless those on board happened to be the stupidest people on the planet. The other ships certainly knew what it was about.

If I'm on the high seas and military commandos start dropping on my deck, I'm not going to start attacking them with pipes... especially if I'm a peace activist!

Against the enemy, perhaps. Not against declared humanitarian flotillas in international waters.

Obviously the Israelis had some doubts about the mission of the flotilla (and now we know for good reason).

Stitch Face

6/4/2010, 12:59 PM

INTERNATIONAL WATERS!!!

This has become the Hamas equivalent of "On A Neutral Field!!!"

BU BEAR

6/4/2010, 03:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxY7Q7CvQPQ&feature=player_embedded

The sweet people on the Hamas boat said:

1. Go back to Auschwitz and

2. We are helping... against the US. Remember 9/11.

Leroy, do we know each other?

BU BEAR

6/4/2010, 03:25 PM

3. "And so it follows that Israel's interception was also legal."
No, it doesn't. Leave the law to the lawyers, homey. I can't have you arrested for saying, "Hmm, I think I'm going to steal your car later. Yep, gonna do it."

You are right. You cannot have me arrested for just saying that I am going to steal your car. But, if I take an overt act toward stealing your car, then I can be arrested. These boats ignored warnings and continued their course toward running the blockade. Israel, under international law, need not wait until they get into Israeli waters or actually run the blockade before intercepting the boat. This is because the boats had already manifested their intent to run the blockade.

JohnnyMack

6/4/2010, 03:37 PM

Arabs hate the Jews.

Jews hate the Arabs.

Who gives a ****?

Stitch Face

6/4/2010, 04:26 PM

Arabs hate the Jews.

Jews hate the Arabs.

This is actually a pretty realistic summary of the progress made on this issue in the last sixty years.

Or few thousand years for that matter.

Stitch Face

6/4/2010, 06:45 PM

Looks like Helen Thomas has come up with a final solution to the whole mess

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQcQdWBqt14

Uh-oh! I fell for Israeli propaganda!

AlbqSooner

6/4/2010, 08:22 PM

Good call. I think the US Navy should start shooting at every boat in international waters that we don't like, too. ESPECIALLY non-military.

Not so much the Navy, but the U.S. Coast Guard has been intercepting non-military boats in the southern Caribbean for more than two decades. Often firing a warning salvo across the bow of those boats which refuse to "heel to and prepare to be boarded".

The Coast Guard believed those boats were carrying shipments of cocaine and marijuana along with their bananas or whatever. They did not wait for them to enter U.S. waters.

As you said, and perhaps when you get older and wiser you will understand, and perhaps incorporate into your actions, it is best to pick your battles wisely.

BU BEAR

6/4/2010, 08:27 PM

1. BU apparently is NOT a lawyer of he/she would not have said that.

BU is a lawyer and yes, he did say that.

Stitch Face

6/4/2010, 08:43 PM

I went deep sea fishing with some guys one time and we had a few too many and this one guy gets rowdy and next thing you know he hauls off and hits me in international waters. International waters. INTERNATIONAL WATERS.

Surely that can't be legal.

BU BEAR

6/4/2010, 08:52 PM

olevetonahill

6/4/2010, 08:56 PM

Arabs hate the Jews.

Jews hate the Arabs.

Who gives a ****?

The Jews and A rabs Ya dumas :rolleyes: :P

OUMallen

6/5/2010, 03:35 PM

BU is a lawyer and yes, he did say that.

That saddens me greatly.

OUMallen

6/5/2010, 03:35 PM

I went deep sea fishing with some guys one time and we had a few too many and this one guy gets rowdy and next thing you know he hauls off and hits me.

I can relate. :texan: ;)

OUMallen

6/5/2010, 03:37 PM

Not so much the Navy, but the U.S. Coast Guard has been intercepting non-military boats in the southern Caribbean for more than two decades. Often firing a warning salvo across the bow of those boats which refuse to "heel to and prepare to be boarded".

The Coast Guard believed those boats were carrying shipments of cocaine and marijuana along with their bananas or whatever. They did not wait for them to enter U.S. waters.

As you said, and perhaps when you get older and wiser you will understand, and perhaps incorporate into your actions, it is best to pick your battles wisely.

If you can't see the difference between the types of boats, then I'm not sure you should be asserting opinions in this thread.

Tulsa_Fireman

6/5/2010, 04:04 PM

But therein establishes violations of international law you're touting right here at home. The comparison holds water.

stoopified

6/5/2010, 06:20 PM

Stitch Face

6/5/2010, 06:26 PM

Maybe I am just slow but can someone explain to me how Israel blockading international waters....excuse me ...INTERNATIONAL WATERS any different than the U.S. blockade of Cuba in INTERNATIONAL WATERS in 1962? Israel is acting in defense of its existence just as the JFK led American government did. I have no problem with either action and see no difference.

Dude, you're not getting it. They did it in international waters. International waters. INTERNATIONAL WATERS.

You have to say it three times before you'll realize that Israel has no right to defend itself from weapon smugglers.

Turd_Ferguson

6/5/2010, 06:34 PM

I once had good intel that a group of people were coming to tp my house. Instead of watching out the window for them, I went and sat in my truck that was parked in a public street. Public street. PUBLIC STREET! That way, I head the little ****er's off at the pass before they bombarded my shrubbery that was installed by illegal messicans.

Leroy Lizard

6/5/2010, 06:35 PM

If you can't see the difference between the types of boats, then I'm not sure you should be asserting opinions in this thread.

Both are boats in which the contents are suspicious and could pose a threat to the home population. If anything, the flotilla posed a greater threat than the typical drug runner.

The "peace" activists should have known their presence was likely to trigger an inspection. They should have the drill down: If boarded, we are to peaceably show the boarders that no weapons are on board.

Why didn't they?

Stitch Face

6/5/2010, 06:40 PM

To think, this all could have been avoided by simply sinking the the ship from afar.

BU BEAR

6/5/2010, 07:58 PM

You see gentlemen, where Lee Harvey Oswald messed up after shooting JFK is that he hung around Dallas. He should have hurried out of town and got to international waters. International Waters. INTERNATIONAL WATERS!
-------------------------

Leroy Lizard

6/5/2010, 08:20 PM

AlbqSooner

6/5/2010, 09:10 PM

If you can't see the difference between the types of boats, then I'm not sure you should be asserting opinions in this thread.

I can see the difference. One was carrying bananas and drugs. The other was carrying humanitarian aid and weapons of limited destruction.
Despite your protestations, I will post wherever the fark I want.

....off.......

BU BEAR

6/5/2010, 09:21 PM

What kind of waters, again?

INTERNATIONAL Waters!!!!!!!!!

Olie Olie Oxen Free!

Leroy Lizard

6/5/2010, 09:43 PM

INTERNATIONAL Waters!!!!!!!!!

Olie Olie Oxen Free!

So you are saying that these were INTERNATIONAL waters, yes?

Tulsa_Fireman

6/5/2010, 09:46 PM

In the spirit of Homey's lawn care...

INTERNACIONALE!

KC//CRIMSON

6/5/2010, 10:04 PM

I love me some Humous.

olevetonahill

6/5/2010, 10:15 PM

I can see the difference. One was carrying bananas and drugs. The other was carrying humanitarian aid and weapons of limited destruction.
Despite your protestations, I will post wherever the fark I want.

....off.......

No ya old fart its
**** off dip **** :D

BU BEAR

6/5/2010, 10:39 PM

So you are saying that these were INTERNATIONAL waters, yes?

I am saying it was like that time when Homer Simpson went off-shore gambling. When he was in INTERNATIONAL waters. He was ok. He could do anything he wanted: gamble, babes, booze, piracy, organized crime, whatever. But, when he came into US waters after leaving INTERNATIONAL waters, the Coast Guard got him and it was OK.

Yeah, that Simpson's episode accurately portrayed INTERNATIONAL law.

StoopTroup

6/5/2010, 10:41 PM

I'd like to mention that Movie Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome....

WHO RUN BARTER TOWN?

http://www.angrypatrioticbastard.com/images/politics/master%20blaster.jpg

KC//CRIMSON

6/5/2010, 10:43 PM

I am saying it was like that time when Homer Simpson went off-shore gambling. When he was in INTERNATIONAL waters. He was ok. He could do anything he wanted: gamble, babes, booze, piracy, organized crime, whatever. But, when he came into US waters after leaving INTERNATIONAL waters, the Coast Guard got him and it was OK.

Yeah, that Simpson's episode accurately portrayed INTERNATIONAL law.

Congrats on dumbing that down and putting it in a format that Leroid can understand. Well done, Sir.

SCOUT

6/5/2010, 10:48 PM

I have a question on one of the finer points in this story. Does anyone know where this interaction actually took place? Was it in an Israeli port, the Dead Sea or somewhere else?

TIA

Leroy Lizard

6/5/2010, 10:57 PM

I have a question on one of the finer points in this story. Does anyone know where this interaction actually took place? Was it in an Israeli port, the Dead Sea or somewhere else?

TIA

Yeah, it was in the Dead Sea.

;)

Leroy Lizard

6/5/2010, 10:57 PM

Congrats on dumbing that down and putting it in a format that Leroid can understand. Well done, Sir.

We really need to institute a minimum age limit for this board.

KC//CRIMSON

6/5/2010, 11:00 PM

We really need to institute a minimum age limit for this board.

My statements are mere opinions, try not to get too worked up over them.

StoopTroup

6/5/2010, 11:08 PM

We really need to institute a minimum age limit for this board.

Good thing you didn't say IQ....you'd be outta here!

AlbqSooner

6/6/2010, 06:17 AM

No ya old fart its
**** off dip **** :D

Okay vet. This ones for you.

.... dip .... :oink:

ndpruitt03

6/7/2010, 08:23 PM

Good peace activists

pxY7Q7CvQPQ