A pole

[olevetonahill]

about the gheys in the Military

heres one article

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Yes. No-brainer.

[StoopTroup]

Yes as long as they ain't ghey Illegals.

[olevetonahill]

Yes. No-brainer.

Why you say that jaun ?

Give me yer whys and there fores

[StoopTroup]

If they are going to let Women serve...they should let the weaker sex serve too. :D

[sooner ngintunr]

Yes. No-brainer.

Yeah, a no-brainer for people that have never served and never plan to.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Why you say that jaun ?

Give me yer whys and there fores

Same policy as for homophobes. As long as you don't act on your feelings in an illegal/improper way, you should be able to serve.

People have all kinds of feelings - it's how and when you act on those feelings that matter.

[SoonerStormchaser]

I put "IDK" and here's why:
We can debate the morality and other nonsense until we're blue in the face...no one's gonna change their opinions.
HOWEVER:
What concerns me with them repealing this policy is that it will open up a massive can of worms. So let's say a guy in the military comes out as gay and then gets married in a state where it's allowed. You are then gonna have lawsuits galore because guy wants his husband to get military spouse benefits. What happens when he PCS's to a state/country that doesn't allow gay marriage? Are they done with the benefits? What about the GI Bill? Do you now have to rewrite the law to pass that benefit along to a partner? Do you get BAH with dependent?

It's opening a huge Pandora's box...

[GKeeper316]

Yeah, a no-brainer for people that have never served and never plan to.

i served.

and i say let them as well.

[GKeeper316]

I put "IDK" and here's why:
We can debate the morality and other nonsense until we're blue in the face...no one's gonna change their opinions.
HOWEVER:
What concerns me with them repealing this policy is that it will open up a massive can of worms. So let's say a guy in the military comes out as gay and then gets married in a state where it's allowed. You are then gonna have lawsuits galore because guy wants his husband to get military spouse benefits. What happens when he PCS's to a state/country that doesn't allow gay marriage? Are they done with the benefits? What about the GI Bill? Do you now have to rewrite the law to pass that benefit along to a partner? Do you get BAH with dependent?

It's opening a huge Pandora's box...

pandora's box or doing the right thing?

[sooner ngintunr]

i served.

and i say let them as well.

As SSC pointed out though, its not exactly "a no brainer"

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Only if they're hot.

Oh, and they must have a vagina. And assorted videos that they send to my house for free.

[tommieharris91]

I put "IDK" and here's why:
We can debate the morality and other nonsense until we're blue in the face...no one's gonna change their opinions.
HOWEVER:
What concerns me with them repealing this policy is that it will open up a massive can of worms. So let's say a guy in the military comes out as gay and then gets married in a state where it's allowed. You are then gonna have lawsuits galore because guy wants his husband to get military spouse benefits. What happens when he PCS's to a state/country that doesn't allow gay marriage? Are they done with the benefits? What about the GI Bill? Do you now have to rewrite the law to pass that benefit along to a partner? Do you get BAH with dependent?

It's opening a huge Pandora's box...
Let those who passed the bar and sit on judge's benches answer those questions.

[delhalew]

I said yes, but I want to qualify that by saying I don't think it should be my decision. In fact, I don't think any internal military matters are my decision.
If our boys and girls are OK with it...than so am I.

[delhalew]

Let those who passed the bar and sit on judge's benches answer those questions.

Yeah...**** them. Let the military answer those questions.

[OUMallen]

I put "IDK" and here's why:
We can debate the morality and other nonsense until we're blue in the face...no one's gonna change their opinions.
HOWEVER:
What concerns me with them repealing this policy is that it will open up a massive can of worms. So let's say a guy in the military comes out as gay and then gets married in a state where it's allowed. You are then gonna have lawsuits galore because guy wants his husband to get military spouse benefits. What happens when he PCS's to a state/country that doesn't allow gay marriage? Are they done with the benefits? What about the GI Bill? Do you now have to rewrite the law to pass that benefit along to a partner? Do you get BAH with dependent?

It's opening a huge Pandora's box...

The states each control marriage, not the federal gov't. Pretty sure (90%) the fed has to recognize any valid state marriage and can't pick-and-choose which ones they like and don't like. E.g.- we've had common law marriage for a long time in OK, and the federal gov't isn't allowed to just not recognize those.


Can of worms closed-ish?

[Harry Beanbag]

The states each control marriage, not the federal gov't. Pretty sure (90%) the fed has to recognize any valid state marriage and can't pick-and-choose which ones they like and don't like. E.g.- we've had common law marriage for a long time in OK, and the federal gov't isn't allowed to just not recognize those.


Can of worms closed-ish?


No, I don't think you really answered his questions at all.

[OUMallen]

OK, I'll make it simpler and connect the dots:

AS TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT- I think the marriage will be valid to the federal government at all times. Whether they're in another country won't matter. Whether they're in another state won't matter. Anything a "normal" spouse gets, a gay spouse will get. The federal government doesn't get to decide whether a marriage is "good enough" by its standards. If it's valid as to the state in which it was conducted, then it's valid to the federal gov't. That's a big states-rights issue.

AS TO OTHER STATES THAT DON'T RECOGNIZE: most states, by default, automatically recognize marriages from other states. However, I'm pretty sure plenty of states have enacted proactive legislation that won't allow the state to recognize gay-marriage from other states. But my understanding is that this won't matter very much because we're talking about federal employment.

[OUMallen]

(Disclaimer: I don't practice interstate family law, so that might not be exactly correc,t but I think it generally is...)

[Frozen Sooner]

Legislation is already working its way through Congress allowing same-sex domestic partners to share in federal benefits, which as far as I know would include all military benefits. If it passes, then that would preclude any such lawsuits.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Yeah...**** them. Let the military answer those questions.
BINGO

I am just glad that I did my time and am now retired.

I am 100% against it...Don't ask, Don't tell has worked. I have seen dudes claim to be fags just so they could get out of my beloved Corps...it works like a champ everytime

I agree with the Pandora's box deal...there TON's of issue this will raise...the first thing that comes to mind is...who wants to share a BEQ room with a flaming fag? It won't be pretty in Marine Corps barracks.

[olevetonahill]

S.I.T.
I agree kinda with the Jarhead versus Flaming Fag thing you portray , But Not ALL Jarheads are as ruff and tuff as they would like us to thank and not ALL Gheys are " Girley men"

The Military is a very close nit organization , Army, Navy , Marines, Air Force.

In training you are in very close quarters with every other trainee. You pretty much Shat, Sleep and shower together .

Just a lot of things to think about here , rather than just saying Oh hell yes I wanta be PC.

Im like SSC i just dont know and I dont have a ready answer.Other than its way above my Pay Grade to decide this.

[SoonerStormchaser]

pandora's box or doing the right thing?

This isn't about doing the "right thing." This is about each individual's morals and beliefs. What you might think is doing the "right thing" others might think is sanctioning immorality.
Let's debate abortion while we're at it!

[StoopTroup]

Hitler would have been a good abortion?

[olevetonahill]

Same policy as for homophobes. As long as you don't act on your feelings in an illegal/improper way, you should be able to serve.

People have all kinds of feelings - it's how and when you act on those feelings that matter.

Regardless of what you may think jaun Im far from a racist or a homophobe.

Hell Chuck is coming to see me tomorrow and Im looking forward to the visit.

[Harry Beanbag]

This isn't about doing the "right thing." This is about each individual's morals and beliefs. What you might think is doing the "right thing" others might think is sanctioning immorality.
Let's debate abortion while we're at it!


It shouldn't be about morals and beliefs either. The only issue should be if it makes our fighting forces more, less, or equally effective as they are today. I don't know the answer to it.

I do have personal anecdotal evidence of a gay dude I served with. There is a healthy percentage of gay men that seem to foment special forms of drama that are not conducive to a cohesive fighting unit. When they advance to supervisory levels, it is even worse.

[OUMallen]

I think a super pansy girlyman would either be weeded out naturally by the system or given a desk job. Not everyone that goes into the military ends up in the infantry.

[StoopTroup]

Chuck and Vet sittin' in a tree... ;)

[OUMallen]

It shouldn't be about morals and beliefs either. The only issue should be if it makes our fighting forces more, less, or equally effective as they are today. I don't know the answer to it.

I do have personal anecdotal evidence of a gay dude I served with. There is a healthy percentage of gay men that seem to foment special forms of drama that are not conducive to a cohesive fighting unit. When they advance to supervisory levels, it is even worse.

So do some straight men. And LOTS of women. If they (men, women, gays) suck at their job, let the system take care of it.


/maybe "suck at their job" was a poor choice of words...

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I bet the accessories they would come up with woud be FAB uuu LUSS!!

[Sooner in Tampa]

Regardless of what you may think jaun Im far from a racist or a homophobe.


Vet,

I am far from a homophobe. I just know the life of a Marine Grunt...and ghey's ain't cut out for that...nor are the straight Marines have ghey's with them. I think it's a idea. That's all. Gheys have the ability to do a ton of things...I just think the military ain't it.

Ghey dudes make great hairdresser :P (joke there for all the libtards)

[delhalew]

I would agree that "the right thing" has no place in the military. As I understand it, fairness is not the main concern of the military. Training young folks to think and move as one being and be able to focus on the hard work of killing together is the main focus of the military.

[NormanPride]

Yeah, my gut says to let them in because they're just as good at defending our country as any other people. But the armed forces are more than the sum of their parts. Since I'm not in the military, I don't think I have any right to say whether or not they would be able to accomplish their goals as well with the added element of sexuality thrown in. I would imagine it would be fine, considering they handle men and women together...

I imagine it will eventually be a non-issue. Race used to be a big issue in the military, but as soon as the fellow grunts saw them dying and fighting just the same, I think the prejudice went the way of the dodo. From the active and retired servicemen and women I've met, if you served with someone and fought with them, they're a brother no matter who they are away from the fighting.

[StoopTroup]

I think an all ghey military is the way to go.

Maybe an all straight National Guard as back-up.

I think if you think about what I'm saying and roll the big picture of what I'm saying around a bit....you'll see the genius of what I'm getting at.

[yermom]

I put "IDK" and here's why:
We can debate the morality and other nonsense until we're blue in the face...no one's gonna change their opinions.
HOWEVER:
What concerns me with them repealing this policy is that it will open up a massive can of worms. So let's say a guy in the military comes out as gay and then gets married in a state where it's allowed. You are then gonna have lawsuits galore because guy wants his husband to get military spouse benefits. What happens when he PCS's to a state/country that doesn't allow gay marriage? Are they done with the benefits? What about the GI Bill? Do you now have to rewrite the law to pass that benefit along to a partner? Do you get BAH with dependent?

It's opening a huge Pandora's box...

marriage benefits is the biggest problem you see in all this?

[yermom]

Vet,

I am far from a homophobe. I just know the life of a Marine Grunt...and ghey's ain't cut out for that...nor are the straight Marines have ghey's with them. I think it's a idea. That's all. Gheys have the ability to do a ton of things...I just think the military ain't it.

Ghey dudes make great hairdresser :P (joke there for all the libtards)

if they can't cut it, how are they hiding it now?

[StoopTroup]

Maybe we can just keep Capt. StormChaser though as an adviser. :D

[delhalew]

Not sure race was much of an issue. White and blacks have been dying together since the revolutionary war.

[Sooner in Tampa]

if they can't cut it, how are they hiding it now?
They ain't hiding out in Marine Corps Infantry units!

They are not cut out for what would be in store for them in an infantry unit...it is an whole different way of life. Once you have been a part of it...you would agree. They are ruthless, cut throat, and loyal as hell. The chip on that should is HUGE...grunts are ornery as hell. It is just NOT a place for gheys.

I hope everybody realizes that certain things just DON'T go together. Why do we have to force the issue?

[NormanPride]

Not sure race was much of an issue. White and blacks have been dying together since the revolutionary war.

Weren't they segregated for the most part in WWII?

[StoopTroup]

What about the indians? We couldn't have won without them? Should they have been segregated?

[GottaHavePride]

The Roman Empire conquered more of the planet than any military force before or since. And when their armies were on the move they didn't have chicks with them, so the dudes fooled around with each other. It's pretty well-documented.

So I'm not sure I buy the "gays aren't cut out for the life of a Marine" argument. I'd bet a good bit of money that there certainly are gay Marines in the armed forces right now.

[StoopTroup]

So we need more ghey Romans?

[Harry Beanbag]

So do some straight men. And LOTS of women. If they (men, women, gays) suck at their job, let the system take care of it.


/maybe "suck at their job" was a poor choice of words...


Suck at their job has exactly zero to do with the special drama I was talking about. Those that have been around gay men enough know what I'm talking about.

[olevetonahill]

Weren't they segregated for the most part in WWII?

NP yes they were
The Blacks in the military were either used for menial type jobs , If they were in a fighting unit that unit was led By white officers

Some good reading here

http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org/

[olevetonahill]

What about the indians? We couldn't have won without them? Should they have been segregated?

They were , Read more history

[GottaHavePride]

Suck at their job has exactly zero to do with the special drama I was talking about. Those that have been around gay men enough know what I'm talking about.

I've met plenty of drama-queen, effeminate men that AREN'T gay. Some people just aren't cut out for the military, and that goes for straights AND gays.

[delhalew]

NP yes they were
The Blacks in the military were either used for menial type jobs , If they were in a fighting unit that unit was led By white officers

Some good reading here

http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org/

Yeah, I suppose NP had a point. I thought it was different as relating to infantry though.

[yermom]

They ain't hiding out in Marine Corps Infantry units!

They are not cut out for what would be in store for them in an infantry unit...it is an whole different way of life. Once you have been a part of it...you would agree. They are ruthless, cut throat, and loyal as hell. The chip on that should is HUGE...grunts are ornery as hell. It is just NOT a place for gheys.

I hope everybody realizes that certain things just DON'T go together. Why do we have to force the issue?

who is forcing the issue?

i don't think they are going to institute a quota

there are already gays in the military that no one knows about. maybe once they do you will realize that what you are saying doesn't really make much sense

sure, the fag down at the mall grooming dogs or planning weddings is not infantry material, but since that is the only socially acceptable place to see gays, that may be the only way you know them

they aren't all dressing up like Cher on the weekends

[olevetonahill]

The Roman Empire conquered more of the planet than any military force before or since. And when their armies were on the move they didn't have chicks with them, so the dudes fooled around with each other. It's pretty well-documented.

So I'm not sure I buy the "gays aren't cut out for the life of a Marine" argument. I'd bet a good bit of money that there certainly are gay Marines in the armed forces right now.

Bro
Yer confusing Necessity for the Ghey
Kinda like the prison Inmates will Butt **** the hell out each other, But when they get out they go looking fer da wimmens
jes sayin:D

[OUMallen]

Suck at their job has exactly zero to do with the special drama I was talking about. Those that have been around gay men enough know what I'm talking about.

PLEASE enlighten us.

[NormanPride]

NP yes they were
The Blacks in the military were either used for menial type jobs , If they were in a fighting unit that unit was led By white officers

Some good reading here

http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org/

Thanks for the link. And I bet there's still some prejudice going around today, but I'd bet almost any man who fought along side one of those segregated groups would vouch for their abilities and loyalty. It would probably be the same with gays. The first time one saves your *** from an IED or takes down a suicide bomber about to take out a unit, the perceptions change a bit.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

The first time one saves your *** from an IED or takes down a suicide bomber about to take out a unit, the perceptions change a bit.

unless he wants to put his penis in it as a reward for saving it...at least thats what johnny macks stipulations were for helping me change a tire once

[StoopTroup]

They were , Read more history

segregated? or indians? :D

[Harry Beanbag]

PLEASE enlighten us.


Not worth the effort.

[StoopTroup]

The History of the American Indians I'm afraid would depress me. They already got a bunch of my money last week.

[OUMallen]

Not worth the effort.



Step one- say something that is vague, cryptic and conclusory.

Step two- receive question inquiring as to what you meant.

Step three- ...refuse?


:confused:

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Regardless of what you may think jaun Im far from a racist or a homophobe.

Hell Chuck is coming to see me tomorrow and Im looking forward to the visit.

I wasn't directing the homophobe comment to you or anyone else. I was saying a homophobe should be able to serve regardless how they feel. But if they act on their feelings irrationally and beat the **** out of anyone who smiles at them, then that's another matter.

Many high school teachers may have feelings for students, but it's whether or not they act on the feelings that matter.

[Scott D]

DADT worked.

yes there are gay marines, although most of them are probably female ;)

yes gays have served even before DADT was introduced as a compromise.

yes, the House is full of ****, and hopefully the Senate will realize they are full of **** before it's too late.

And last but not least, yes, I am in favor of impeaching every single member of the Legislative and Executive Branches of Federal Government as of a year + ago.

[Harry Beanbag]

Step one- say something that is vague, cryptic and conclusory.

Step two- receive question inquiring as to what you meant.

Step three- ...refuse?


:confused:


Nah, I just don't have the time. Working 4 hours today then off to the mountains for a nice long relaxing camping trip. What I say on the issue won't make a difference any way. Some people will understand, some will disagree, and some will get pissed off and call me names. Who cares.

[OUMallen]

Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, supports repeal, though some generals have indicated opposition.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates also backs overhauling the policy, though the Pentagon issued a statement Tuesday that he'll accept Congress' plan to accelerate the timeline.


OK so, Obama (not that he has any special knowledge, but he is the Command-in-Chief), the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and the Secretary of Defense all support repeal. Doesn't that hold some water?

[Harry Beanbag]

DADT worked.

yes there are gay marines, although most of them are probably female ;)

yes gays have served even before DADT was introduced as a compromise.

yes, the House is full of ****, and hopefully the Senate will realize they are full of **** before it's too late.

And last but not least, yes, I am in favor of impeaching every single member of the Legislative and Executive Branches of Federal Government as of a year + ago.


Yes to all of this.

[IBleedCrimson]

no, only bc its a morale killer

[OUMallen]

Nah, I just don't have the time. Working 4 hours today then off to the mountains for a nice long relaxing camping trip. What I say on the issue won't make a difference any way. Some people will understand, some will disagree, and some will get pissed off and call me names. Who cares.

Enjoy camping!

[StoopTroup]

No kidding Harry...have a good time...

JckR-YZAbEQ&feature=related

[stoopified]

Yes as long as they ain't ghey Illegals.I say let all illegals serve,in fact make it mandatory if they want to become legals.

[OUMallen]

I say let all illegals serve,in fact make it mandatory if they want to become legals.

Agreed. If they can do at least 5 years of active duty, automatic naturalization.

This is such a great solution, it's never going to get done.

[yermom]

I say let all illegals serve,in fact make it mandatory if they want to become legals.

does that work for the Arabs too, or just the Mexicans?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

The History of the American Indians I'm afraid would depress me. They already got a bunch of my money last week.

thanks for supporting us!

[GKeeper316]

This isn't about doing the "right thing." This is about each individual's morals and beliefs. What you might think is doing the "right thing" others might think is sanctioning immorality.
Let's debate abortion while we're at it!

last time i checked, this was america and there were no second class citizens. something about all men are created equal or some **** like that.

it isnt the military's job to dictate morality.

and to sooner in tampa... i agree with the current chairman of the joint chiefs... dont ask dont tell essentially forces people with a desire to serve their country to lie about who they are, and thats unacceptable.

[GKeeper316]

nvm

[stoops the eternal pimp]

and to sooner in tampa... i agree with the current chairman of the joint cheifs... dont ask dont tell essentially forces people with a desire to serve their country to lie about who they are, and thats unacceptible.

Honest question..

Are people that join asked if they are gay or not? if they aren't asked, not sure how they are lying about who they are...

[Scott D]

Honest question..

Are people that join asked if they are gay or not? if they aren't asked, not sure how they are lying about who they are...

I guess if you wanted to nitpick, they'd be lying by omission. However they certainly aren't outright lying, since there was no question posed asking their sexual orientation.

[yermom]

you pretty much have to lie to stay in the closet

and you have to hide who you really are. it's not like straight people don't talk about their wives and kids back home, etc...

[Scott D]

You only have to technically lie if you are asked. If you aren't asked, you aren't lying.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

more questions..

So If I say Im attracted to banana hammocks and Im in the military, do I get kicked out?

I could read all of the info on it somewhere, but i don't care enough

[stoops the eternal pimp]

You only have to technically lie if you are asked. If you aren't asked, you aren't lying.

thats the way I understand it but i've only been gay about 3 1/2 times, so I havent had to lie about it

[Scott D]

I fail to see how your underwear fetish is involved in this scenario.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I fail to see how your underwear fetish is involved in this scenario.

well I guess I should sign up then

[Scott D]

May as well, I mean they let guys in who marry women old enough to be their great-grandmother...right SSC? :D

[yermom]

You only have to technically lie if you are asked. If you aren't asked, you aren't lying.

i don't think that was the nature of the statement by GKeeper

[stoops the eternal pimp]

BAZINGA

[olevetonahill]

You Fags quit gheyin up my thread :P

[Scott D]

i don't think that was the nature of the statement by GKeeper

that was the nature of the reply to your statement...or question.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

You Fags quit gheyin up my thread :P

You're a weenisphobe

[1890MilesToNorman]

I never served in the military so my opinion amounts to a big pile of squat cause I don't know what effect it has on our ability to kill people and break things. If it does have a negative impact on the above mentioned objectives then I saw no, on the other hand if we are going in to redecorate a country then I say yes.

Just my 2 squats worth. :D

[Sooner in Tampa]

and to sooner in tampa... i agree with the current chairman of the joint chiefs... dont ask dont tell essentially forces people with a desire to serve their country to lie about who they are, and thats unacceptable.
Heres a hot flash for ya brother...if you think fags are the only ones who server under "false pretense" then you are one clueless SOB.

When you join one of Uncle Sam's gun clubs...you leave a LOT of **** at the door...we don't have the time or the inclination to worry about it. It just so happens that the gheys want to shove it down everyones throat...you know..."We're Here, We're Queer" and all that jazz.

As far as Gates and McMullen being on board...REALLY? DO YOU REALLY BELEIVE THAT?? You don't think Obama (ALL HAIL!!!) ain't twisting some arms? Just ask Dennis Blair what happens when you don't agree with the current administration.

The bottom line for me is this: gheys have been in the military for A LONG TIME...It has worked...Why oh why do we have to advertise?

OH...and yes there are many gheys in Marine Corps...just go to Parris Island and check out the Female Drill Instructors ;)