Good Morning...Deadliest air crash in US history

[Okla-homey]

May 25,1979 DC-10 crashes, killing all aboard

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/3862/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa10.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
American Airlines DC10

31 years ago on this day in 1979 almost 300 people are killed when an American Airlines flight crashes and explodes after losing one engine just after takeoff. When I say it lost an engine, I mean it literally. The left one fell off.:eek:

It was the beginning of Memorial Day weekend in 1979 when 277 passengers filled Flight 191 from Chicago’s O’Hare Airport bound for Los Angeles. The DC-10 jet took off normally but after rising to only 400 feet, stalled and then rolled to the left. The plane quickly plunged, crashing into Ravenswood Airport, which had been abandoned and was no longer in use.

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/206/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa11.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Last seconds before impact. If you look closely, you can see the fuel spewing from the left wing where #1 engine had been before it fell off.

The plane, fully loaded with fuel, exploded on impact, killing all 277 people on board instantly. The heat from the fire was so intense that firefighters could not approach the crash for close to an hour. The crash also caused a fire at a nearby mobile-home park and killed two bystanders on the ground. This was only natural because in every catastrophe, somebody in a trailer park has to buy it. Its like a law of nature or something. Also, a Standard Oil gas storage facility was also nearly hit.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/2884/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa17.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Following this crash, all DC-10s in the United States were impounded and grounded by judicial order because there was no immediate determination as to the cause of the crash and it was feared that it could have been caused by a problem common to the jet type.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/7337/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa18.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
This one fell off. The engine that is, not the d00d.

Ultimately, it was found that the left pylon, which supported the turbofan engine, came loose and took out the hydraulic lines. The left wing slats then retracted and the plane could not lift off properly. The American Airlines maintenance crew was found to be at fault--they had failed to follow the proper procedures when removing the engine and pylon during repairs and maintenance. (I haven't bothered to research the total of the settlement amounts paid by American to victims' families but it had to be massive.)

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/9339/insane7zo5wa.jpg

[1890MilesToNorman]

my Mom was on her way to O'Hare for an American Airline flight when this happened. To close for comfort.

[Harry Beanbag]

Man, I hate flying.

[Okla-homey]

I don't know if they ever figured out who forgot to put the nuts on the engine bolts, but I have always suspected it was StoopTroup.:P

[StoopTroup]

BTW....

The DC-10s are all retired now and the FAA and the NTSB and the Airlines put procedures in place to ensure that engines aren't hung with out of date or broken down equipment. Although these things happen and are definitely horrible...good can come from the mistakes made...it is indeed unfortunate that lives are lost because of Human Error...but the mixture of man and machine and death continues everyday on our Nations Highways and that scares the crap out of me more than the worry of anything happening on an airplane.

The last Tulsa Airshow had some guys who push the limits of planes to the max and thousands of folks flock to Air Shows as well as Nascar events to watch it happen.

I have figured out for myself that I am just as uncomfortable flying as I am riding along in a car where someone else is driving. It's the control issue.

Also...not to discount that there haven't ever been maintenance mistakes ever made on aircraft...I'm sure there have been just as sure as I am that there have been design flaws in aircraft, automobiles, trucks, buses and trains. There have been many pilot and operator errors that have results in the loss of life too. Thankfully these incidents in the air are extremely rare and that we still have the ability to try to reduce the risk of these incidents. As far as reducing them on our Nations Roads.....I'm not quite as confident that we have that ability anymore.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I'm sure there have been just as sure as I am that there have been design flaws in aircraft, automobiles, trucks, buses and trains. .

This is total BS.

-Toyota

[StoopTroup]

I don't know if they ever figured out who forgot to put the nuts on the engine bolts, but I have always suspected it was StoopTroup.:P

And it wasn't nuts. From what I know it was what is called in the industry as a "Tombstone" area of the engine pylon. As the story goes...the crew working had used a huge hydraulic forklift to set the engine in place on the pylon and as lunch was upon them they stopped and came back to the the job after lunch. What supposedly happened was that the forklift pressure bled off and put pressure on the pylon which cracked the support instrumental to keeping the engine attached to the airframe. No one could tell anything was wrong....they had hung many of those that way from what I gather from stories I've been told. I believe it is common knowledge that procedures changed as a result of this. Other stories I've heard was that folks involved didn't take a "It wasn't my fault" attitude and that not only were lives lost on the flight....lives were lost as a result of Human nature and the idea that had I foreseen such a problem...I would have done something much different to avoid the loss of life.

This incident isn't taken lightly to this day and is a part of continued training for all who service planes in the U.S.

If any other folks who have a different perspective on this wish to chime in...I welcome it. I was working in Corporate Accounting when this took place. An awful day.

[Sooner24]

A lot of telephone employees were on that flight having been to the AT&T training center in Lisle and were headed home. If I recall there were more than 60 of them.

[KABOOKIE]

It was the beginning of Memorial Day weekend in 1979 when 277 passengers filled Flight 191 from Chicago’s O’Hare Airport bound for Los Angeles. The DC-10 jet took off normally but after rising to only 400 feet, Vmca'd and then rolled to the left. The plane quickly plunged, crashing into Ravenswood Airport, which had been abandoned and was no longer in use.


Right engine at max takeoff, right slats out/ left in = published Vmca goes out the window. ;)



The DC-10s are all retired now and the FAA and the NTSB and the Airlines put procedures in place to ensure that engines aren't hung with out of date or broken down equipment.

Actually many DC-10 airframes continue service to this day as MD-10s.

[PDXsooner]

I'm always surprised at how much they can figure out about the cause after it all burns up in a fire. And with all that fuel, that fire must have made a lot disappear.

[StoopTroup]

Kabookie....true on the DC-10s still in service in places...AA doesn't fly them anymore is what I meant to express. I do think maybe an old CEO that was let go by the Board of Directors there might have made a deal on some of those from what I've heard.

[Harry Beanbag]

Fedex and UPS fly them don't they?

[KABOOKIE]

I know FedEx does. ST is right as far passenger service. If there are any -10's still hauling pax it's probably something like Mozambique Airways.

[Harry Beanbag]

I work literally across the river from Sky Harbor and the Fedex and UPS planes are the biggest that come in here. They look like DC-10's or whatever they call them now.

[KABOOKIE]

http://fedex.com/us/investorrelations/Q3FY10_stat_book.pdf

Wow according to FedEx's financials they still have 2 DC-10's in service, 74 MD-10 (converted DC-10s) and 59 MD-11's (similar airframe as DC/MD-10's but were MD-11's from manufacture).

I'm impressed there's still a couple of old DC's still flying.

[StoopTroup]

I work literally across the river from Sky Harbor and the Fedex and UPS planes are the biggest that come in here. They look like DC-10's or whatever they call them now.

Wiki has some info on what they fly as of February 28, 2010...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express

[Sooner24]

BTW....

The DC-10s are all retired now and the FAA and the NTSB and the Airlines put procedures in place to ensure that engines aren't hung with out of date or broken down equipment. Although these things happen and are definitely horrible...good can come from the mistakes made...it is indeed unfortunate that lives are lost because of Human Error...but the mixture of man and machine and death continues everyday on our Nations Highways and that scares the crap out of me more than the worry of anything happening on an airplane.

The last Tulsa Airshow had some guys who push the limits of planes to the max and thousands of folks flock to Air Shows as well as Nascar events to watch it happen.

I have figured out for myself that I am just as uncomfortable flying as I am riding along in a car where someone else is driving. It's the control issue.

Also...not to discount that there haven't ever been maintenance mistakes ever made on aircraft...I'm sure there have been just as sure as I am that there have been design flaws in aircraft, automobiles, trucks, buses and trains. There have been many pilot and operator errors that have results in the loss of life too. Thankfully these incidents in the air are extremely rare and that we still have the ability to try to reduce the risk of these incidents. As far as reducing them on our Nations Roads.....I'm not quite as confident that we have that ability anymore.

The MD-80 needs to be retired.

[MrJimBeam]

[QUOTE=KABOOKIE;2883698Wow according to FedEx's financials they still have 2 DC-10's in service,

I'm impressed there's still a couple of old DC's still flying.[/QUOTE]

Wasn't Tom Hanks flying on one of these?

[StoopTroup]

The MD-80 needs to be retired.

Many of them have been.

[Sooner24]

Many of them have been.

Maybe so but 90% of the time I fly AA I get one.

[BudSooner]

I remember that. I had just come in from junior high, just walked in the door and saw this on the news.
It's always when I was getting out of school and getting home that stuff like this happened.
Reagan getting shot, Challenger exploding upon launch, I can't remember but didn't the plane taking off from Washington that ended up in the Potomac happen in the afternoon?

[Williesan]

Maybe so but 90% of the time I fly AA I get one.

Same here. The last series of flights I took were all MD-80's.

They are being phased out for 737's. Here's a Tulsa World article from February about them...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=45&articleid=20100220_45_E1_Americ41333&archive=yes

[Leroy Lizard]

May 25,1979 DC-10 crashes, killing all aboard


Ultimately, it was found that the left pylon, which supported the turbofan engine, came loose and took out the hydraulic lines. The left wing slats then retracted and the plane could not lift off properly. The American Airlines maintenance crew was found to be at fault--they had failed to follow the proper procedures when removing the engine and pylon during repairs and maintenance.

IIRC, what happened was that they didn't want to completely remove the engine to make a repair, which would have taken much longer. They thought they could keep it in place using a support beam, but the beam fractured one of the mounts.

Cutting corners because you've been doing this so long...

BTW, the engine is under propulsion, so it didn't just fall off like an apple from a tree.

[Okla-homey]

Right engine at max takeoff, right slats out/ left in = published Vmca goes out the window. ;)



Actually many DC-10 airframes continue service to this day as MD-10s.

and KC-10's

[olevetonahill]

IIRC, what happened was that they didn't want to completely remove the engine to make a repair, which would have taken much longer. They thought they could keep it in place using a support beam, but the beam fractured one of the mounts.

Cutting corners because you've been doing this so long...

BTW, the engine is under propulsion, so it didn't just fall off like an apple from a tree.

All discussion must now stop . We have heard from the Exspurt:eek:

[StoopTroup]

IIRC, what happened was that they didn't want to completely remove the engine to make a repair, which would have taken much longer. They thought they could keep it in place using a support beam, but the beam fractured one of the mounts.

Cutting corners because you've been doing this so long...

BTW, the engine is under propulsion, so it didn't just fall off like an apple from a tree.

I'm sure that many folks are at ease to know that you aren't fixing aircraft.

I know I am. If you were I believe you'd either be in prison for not following procedures or your Union co-workers would have beaten you to death as just as you stated in other threads....that's how Union folks do things.

[olevetonahill]

All discussion must now stop . We have heard from the Exspurt:eek:


I'm sure that many folks are at ease to know that you aren't fixing aircraft.

I know I am. If you were I believe you'd either be in prison or your Union co-workers would have beaten you to death.

What part of my post did you not understand ? :P

[StoopTroup]

What part of my post did you not understand ? :P

I figured you knew I was in charge. :D

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm sure that many folks are at ease to know that you aren't fixing aircraft.

Whatever.

[olevetonahill]

I figured you knew I was in charge. :D

Just as he knows more about Unions He also knows more about Airframe/ Air Craft maintenance. Plus a Myriad of other subjects
Like the LAW fer instance :rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

Just as he knows more about Unions He also knows more about Airframe/ Air Craft maintenance. Plus a Myriad of other subjects
Like the LAW fer instance :rolleyes:

Ahem.


The original procedure called for removal of the engine prior to the removal of the engine pylon. American Airlines had begun to use a procedure that saved approximately 200 man-hours per aircraft and "more importantly from a safety standpoint, it would reduce the number of disconnects (i.e., hydraulic and fuel lines, electrical cables, and wiring) from 72 to 27."[1] Mechanics were instructed to remove the engine with the pylon as one unit. A large forklift was used to support the engine while it was being detached from the wing. This procedure was extremely difficult to execute successfully, due to difficulties with holding the engine assembly straight while it was being removed.

[BudSooner]

Just as he knows more about Unions He also knows more about Airframe/ Air Craft maintenance. Plus a Myriad of other subjects
Like the LAW/public masturbation/politics/shooting at targets of 1000yards or greater/midget butt secks fer instance :rolleyes:
fixed





:D

[StoopTroup]

Ahem.

I counter your ahem with a WTF dumbass?


The original procedure called for removal of the engine prior to the removal of the engine pylon. American Airlines had begun to use a procedure that saved approximately 200 man-hours per aircraft and "more importantly from a safety standpoint, it would reduce the number of disconnects (i.e., hydraulic and fuel lines, electrical cables, and wiring) from 72 to 27."[1] Mechanics were instructed to remove the engine with the pylon as one unit. A large forklift was used to support the engine while it was being detached from the wing. This procedure was extremely difficult to execute successfully, due to difficulties with holding the engine assembly straight while it was being removed.

So much for mechanics cutting corners I guess?

[C&CDean]

Not to get into you guys' slap fight, but when this happened and I read or heard that the guys went to lunch and then didn't realize the hydraulics leaked a little my first thought was "****ing union guys. That "gotta go to lunch at exactly xx time" thing got a bunch of people killed. This was about the time I went from being a union steward into management.

Carry on.

[TMcGee86]

Ahem.

I don't know what you're aheming about, you were wrong.


IIRC, what happened was that they didn't want to completely remove the engine to make a repair, which would have taken much longer. They thought they could keep it in place using a support beam, but the beam fractured one of the mounts.


The original procedure called for removal of the engine prior to the removal of the engine pylon. American Airlines had begun to use a procedure that saved approximately 200 man-hours per aircraft and "more importantly from a safety standpoint, it would reduce the number of disconnects (i.e., hydraulic and fuel lines, electrical cables, and wiring) from 72 to 27."[1] Mechanics were instructed to remove the engine with the pylon as one unit. A large forklift was used to support the engine while it was being detached from the wing. This procedure was extremely difficult to execute successfully, due to difficulties with holding the engine assembly straight while it was being removed.


ahem ahem

[StoopTroup]

Not to get into you guys' slap fight, but when this happened and I read or heard that the guys went to lunch and then didn't realize the hydraulics leaked a little my first thought was "****ing union guys. That "gotta go to lunch at exactly xx time" thing got a bunch of people killed. This was about the time I went from being a union steward into management.

Carry on.

Well Dean....you can think that but many of us stagger our lunches and breaks for a myriad of reasons. One might be that folks need to clear out if someone needs to spray something that requires everyone to use environmental suits to protect them another that happens all of the time is when they use a radio-isotope to xray the planes. Of course it always has to be the Union guys being **** offs...lol

[Leroy Lizard]

American Airlines had begun to use a procedure that saved approximately 200 man-hours per aircraft

I believe this violated the aircraft manufacturer's own instructions.

And it makes no difference. As I said, "If I recall correctly" hardly constitutes waving one's expertise around.

[olevetonahill]

Well Dean....you can think that but many of us stagger our lunches and breaks for a myriad of reasons. One might be that folks need to clear out if someone needs to spray something that requires everyone to use environmental suits to protect them another that happens all of the time is when they use a radio-isotope to xray the planes. Of course it always has to be the Union guys being **** offs...lol

But ST if its a Union Shop wouldnt all the **** offs be Union **** offs ?:D

[TMcGee86]

Isn't "Union **** off" redundant?

[C&CDean]

Oh I've got nothing against the average rank & file member. It's the union leadership that's all ****ed up.

[StoopTroup]

Isn't "Union **** off" redundant?

The Crew Chief (Union ****-off) who was "Pressured" to accept that procedure got hung out to dry when the investigation began. He went Home that weekend and took his own life.

Again...this was an awful event in Aviation History. Having a Management vs Union debate over 30 years later would seem that even with facts like this that can prove why having Unionized workforce in these types of Industries is a good idea....you still have those who can still think that the entire idea of unionism has no merit.

[TMcGee86]

Actually I was just kidding, wasn't even thinking of the guys involved here.

But you do bring up an interesting point. I suppose you are saying that the union should have the power to refuse shady procedures that mgmt insists on using just to cut costs, without fear of backlash claiming they are just trying to maximize man-hours for profit?

[StoopTroup]

yep. Without that....you'd be fired. The level of quality maintenance would suffer as well IMO. It serves to protect both the Management and the Workers IMO.

[SoonerStormchaser]

I have to post here...so there!

[Turd_Ferguson]

Maybe so but 90% of the time I fly AA I get one.The Mad Dog 80 and 90 rawk. The MD10, MD11 and L1011(Gone:(), rawk as well.

[olevetonahill]

The Mad Dog 80 and 90 rawk. The MD10, MD11 and L1011(Gone:(), rawk as well.

I never Flewed on one of them
But I have tried the Mad dog 20 20 :eek:

[StoopTroup]

Boeing 737s will eventually replace the MD80s.

[StoopTroup]

Watching Mythbusters right now. It's the one about "Explosive Decompression". They take a plane's cabin up to 8 pound per square inch. They use an old AA DC-10 that was retired by Hawaiin Airlines.

Forgot about that DC-10.

UPdate: At the end the announcer says it was a DC-9...I don't think that's right.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Watching Mythbusters right now. It's the one about "Explosive Decompression". They take a plane's cabin up to 8 pound per square inch. They use an old AA DC-10 that was retired by Hawaiin Airlines.

Forgot about that DC-10.

UPdate: At the end the announcer says it was a DC-9...I don't think that's right.Did it have a #3 engine or no...

[Crucifax Autumn]

I never Flewed on one of them
But I have tried the Mad dog 20 20 :eek:

Hell, I thought you made the sh*t. :D

[Leroy Lizard]

Did it have a #3 engine or no...

Well, I'm not certain that means much given what happened in Chicago.

[StoopTroup]

Did it have a #3 engine or no...

Like I said...I saw the retired colors and the Hawaiian colors and just figured in was a DC-10...I didn't see the rest of the plane and now that you say that I just can't remember seeing the 3rd engine.

[Sooner24]

Speaking of jets did anyone see where AA donated one to the flight school in Miami? Watch the video. It's pretty amamzing.



http://cbs4.com/local/plane.jet.miami.2.1704994.html