Just an idear...

[Ike]

The wife and I were talking the other day about illegal immigration, and we hit upon an idea that *may* at least do something, and I wanted to bounce it around here for a bit.

Anyway the idea was something like this:
What if you were to grant a sort of limited amnesty (work visa, or something else that would make them legal for a time, and maybe give them an opportunity to become a citizen at a later date, provided they go through the hoops everyone else had to) to an illegal alien if said alien were to rat out people hiring illegals.

In my best-case-scenario mind, I envision it could ultimately dry up the market for illegal labor by making employers wary of hiring people that might rat them out for a chance to get in the governments good graces to be legal...

Thoughts? I'm sure I'm missing something, because I've spent about 5 minutes total thinking on this...

[Leroy Lizard]

The wife and I were talking the other day about illegal immigration, and we hit upon an idea that *may* at least do something, and I wanted to bounce it around here for a bit.

Anyway the idea was something like this:
What if you were to grant a sort of limited amnesty (work visa, or something else that would make them legal for a time, and maybe give them an opportunity to become a citizen at a later date, provided they go through the hoops everyone else had to) to an illegal alien if said alien were to rat out people hiring illegals.

In my best-case-scenario mind, I envision it could ultimately dry up the market for illegal labor by making employers wary of hiring people that might rat them out for a chance to get in the governments good graces to be legal...

Thoughts? I'm sure I'm missing something, because I've spent about 5 minutes total thinking on this...

It sounds like you've worked for the IRS.

[Harry Beanbag]

The wife and I were talking the other day about illegal immigration, and we hit upon an idea that *may* at least do something, and I wanted to bounce it around here for a bit.

Anyway the idea was something like this:
What if you were to grant a sort of limited amnesty (work visa, or something else that would make them legal for a time, and maybe give them an opportunity to become a citizen at a later date, provided they go through the hoops everyone else had to) to an illegal alien if said alien were to rat out people hiring illegals.

In my best-case-scenario mind, I envision it could ultimately dry up the market for illegal labor by making employers wary of hiring people that might rat them out for a chance to get in the governments good graces to be legal...

Thoughts? I'm sure I'm missing something, because I've spent about 5 minutes total thinking on this...


I think your premise is flawed in that you assume the illegals actually give a **** about being legal and/or citizens. It's been my experience that they generally don't want either.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I think your premise is flawed in that you assume the illegals actually give a **** about being legal and/or citizens. It's been my experience that they generally don't want either.Also, that doesn't address the problem of the invasion by illegals that is happening. But, Ike is right. If we get them legal, they can vote for democrats legally, without having to commit voter fraud, so that's a plus.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

1. Once again Harry is wrong. There is a very large number of people illegally present who have had petitions for residency on file for many years and would love to become legal residents. There is also a very large number who don't qualify to petition under current law, but would love to if given a chance. Harry, you need to move to a better trailer park.

2. I do know of one case where someone was turned in by a relative's jilted lover and was subject to deportation, but her attorney helped make an arrangement with a DOJ program to work undercover and to testify against drug dealers. As long as she worked in this program, INS couldn't touch her. Eventually President Reagan granted her amnesty. Today she a U.S. citizen and registered Republican. God Bless America.

3. Most businesses understand the Cover-Your-A$$ principle.

[XingTheRubicon]

1. Once again Harry is wrong. There is a very large number of people illegally present who have had petitions for residency on file for many years and would love to become legal residents.


and by very large number, you mean the equivalent of 3% of the 12 million illegals have filed petitions for residency


So, I guess Harry is right then. You already knew that though, didn't you.

[OklahomaTuba]

And what jobs would all these millions of new citizens be taking from the rest of us???

[Ike]

I realize that most illegals may not care about being here illegally. This isn't intended to help them. This is intended to help the ones that may. Even if it is a small number, something to give businesses more pause about hiring them could lead to a strong reduction in the demand for illegal labor.

[OklahomaTuba]

Or better yet, we could deport their asses back home.

Give some real American's a job with the department of deporting.

[Harry Beanbag]

1. Once again Harry is wrong. There is a very large number of people illegally present who have had petitions for residency on file for many years and would love to become legal residents.

Psss. If they cared about being legal THEY WOULDN'T BE BREAKING THE LAW IN THE FIRST PLACE!



There is also a very large number who don't qualify to petition under current law, but would love to if given a chance.

There's reasons for that.



Harry, you need to move to a better trailer park.

I think you have been beaten into the ground enough on this topic. Your arguments are all losers when the shining light of reality disinfects them.

[Ike]

Or better yet, we could deport their asses back home.

Give some real American's a job with the department of deporting.

That may sound nice on paper, but it seems that just rounding them all up and deporting them is fairly impractical. There are a lot of them here. A very large percentage of them will leave voluntarily if there are no jobs for them. A program like I mentioned would probably only grant limited amnesty to a small number of them and help dry up the job market for other illegals already here. When we send the feds or state police in to bust up the businesses that have been ratted out, we can deport all the other illegals that are involved.

So a likely scenario: 1 illegal decides he wants to do things the right way, and turns in his boss. Feds raid the business, deport however many other illegals they find there back, fine the business owner some very painful amount. Other businesses in the area notice whats happening and maybe dump their illegals (if the fine is hefty enough)....or they start trying to control their illegals in a manner that may induce more reporting...or maybe they decide that if they pay them more, they may keep their mouths shut, in which case businesses that hire legal labor have a better chance at competing. 1 guy(or gal) gets a benefit for ultimately deciding to do the right thing, lots of others pay for not doing so.

The whole idea here is to try to maximize the reduction in demand for illegal labor at a minimum cost for the government. If you incentivize illegals to turn on their bosses, some of them will do most of the work for you...and all it will take is some of them. Less than 1% probably.

[RFH Shakes]

You want to cut down on illegal immigrants just cut off all excessive welfare payments to the worthless tits in this country. Instead of spending their time working on one of the three broken down trucks in their driveway while yelling at their 5 home schooled children and watching Springer, they could start being productive citizens and take away a job from an illegal. There is a reason Americans don't want to work those jobs, it's because it is easier and more profitable to be lazy and suck off of the tax payer's teet instead of working a low end job. And it's just going to get worse because we create more and more entitlement programs every year.

/rant

[OklahomaTuba]

The whole idea here is to try to maximize the reduction in demand for illegal labor at a minimum cost for the government.

What about reducing the demand for welfare by illegals as well??? That's the biggest single cost of all, not including the added crime they bring, and the jobs they are taking away from American's.

And no doubt there are more people than ever who need those jobs thanks to "Obama's New Normal".

[StoopTroup]

The wife and I were talking the other day about illegal immigration, and we hit upon an idea that *may* at least do something,

Careful....it's stuff like that that ends up with you as President and your Wife as First Lady from what I hear. :D

[JohnnyMack]

Round up all the illegals and take them.......to the IRS office! And make them pay taxes! That'll scare the hell out of 'em!

[StoopTroup]

Round up all the illegals and take them.......to the IRS office! And make them pay back-taxes! That'll scare the hell out of 'em!

fixed.

[Harry Beanbag]

The vast majority of them don't make enough money to pay taxes anyway. Ginormous drain on the economy.

[StoopTroup]

But this is America...the land of opportunity I thought?

[Ike]

Careful....it's stuff like that that ends up with you as President and your Wife as First Lady from what I hear. :D

Not for us it doesn't...I want no part of anything like that.

[badger]

I am not sure all illegal immigrants want to become citizens. I think illegal immigrants would prefer to be legal immigrants, so they wouldn't have to worry about deportation and all in the middle of a job, but it's a pretty sweet deal to get paid in cash at really good wages compared to south of the border in currency that pwns the exchange rates back home.

Till there are consequences for such things, who can blame em for what they do? If the high school soda machine broke and students were able to get free cokes, would you blame them for opening the can and drinking it?

[SicEmBaylor]

I think your premise is flawed in that you assume the illegals actually give a **** about being legal and/or citizens. It's been my experience that they generally don't want either.

This.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Or better yet, we could deport their asses back home.

Give some real American's a job with the department of deporting.and reduce the democrat voting population by that amount

[badger]

and reduce the democrat voting population by that amount

ppbbbth - only half the population votes and I doubt the half that does is filled with illegal immigrants :P

[OU_Sooners75]

and by very large number, you mean the equivalent of 3% of the 12 million illegals have filed petitions for residency


So, I guess Harry is right then. You already knew that though, didn't you.


Do you really expect Juan to look at the facts? he usually just spills his drivel without any research. Kind of reminds me of Rachel Maddow and Keith Oldermane!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

ppbbbth - only half the population votes and I doubt the half that does is filled with illegal immigrants :PThe illegals voting is only a part of the voter fraud. But, it's another good reason to apprehend and deport.

[OU_Sooners75]

So a likely scenario: 1 illegal decides he wants to do things the right way, and turns in his boss.


Now the only thing I have a problem with is this!

What makes you think a person that is trying to provide for his family (here legally or not) will turn in his boss and the company he works for because there are people working at the company that are illegally in the US?

That would be counterproductive for most people....they would run a very high risk of losing their job...

Not because they ratted on someone or a company, because it could end up closing businesses down. If you think some small businesses do not hire illegals, then you have not ventured much into the thinking process here.

I am in agreement for the most part with your thinking and ideas...but there are just somethings people will not do and that is purposely put themselves out of a job when they are trying to provide for a family.

[Leroy Lizard]

But this is America...the land of opportunity I thought?

In the same sense that a bank is the land of opportunity to a thief.

[Ike]

Now the only thing I have a problem with is this!

What makes you think a person that is trying to provide for his family (here legally or not) will turn in his boss and the company he works for because there are people working at the company that are illegally in the US?

That would be counterproductive for most people....they would run a very high risk of losing their job...

Not because they ratted on someone or a company, because it could end up closing businesses down. If you think some small businesses do not hire illegals, then you have not ventured much into the thinking process here.

I am in agreement for the most part with your thinking and ideas...but there are just somethings people will not do and that is purposely put themselves out of a job when they are trying to provide for a family.

Yeah, they probably would wind up losing their job. But if they came out of it with a work visa, they *might* have better prospects for getting a higher paying, legal, job.

I should also note, that the likelihood of someone deciding to take on this kind of risk would probably be amplified in the presence of a law like arizona has.

And yes, I know some small businesses hire illegals, and thats part of the problem. If they are much less willing to do so, that's a natural brake on illegal immigration.

[NormanPride]

Treat it like an INS version of the witness protection program. Immigrant and family get taken care of in the job area to compensate for them losing their current job. The rest of the immigrants are deported and the business is fined. All it takes is one person to set the ball rolling, and it can't hurt to have a deal like this on the table. Sure, many may not care, but if there's even one that does, doesn't this serve a good purpose?

[OU_Sooners75]

Yeah, they probably would wind up losing their job. But if they came out of it with a work visa, they *might* have better prospects for getting a higher paying, legal, job.

I should also note, that the likelihood of someone deciding to take on this kind of risk would probably be amplified in the presence of a law like arizona has.

And yes, I know some small businesses hire illegals, and thats part of the problem. If they are much less willing to do so, that's a natural brake on illegal immigration.

Maybe, but most people will not put their job in jeopardy like that.

What needs to happen is corporate reform somehow. I have no real ideas on how it could be structured, but the problem is not the illegals coming over to work..it is the companies and businesses opening their doors to hire illegals in the first place.

Maybe they could make a law kind of like how you presented yours, coupled with workforce incentives and stricter laws.

Small business owners wont hire illegals as much if they are worried about massive jail time and fines. Maybe the government can give businesses both small and large incentives to hire legal workers...like getting away with capital gains and corporate taxes.

Maybe I am totally ignorant on this...but it seems to me, if you stop taxing the hell out of businesses for providing products and services, then it would free up money for them to hire legals and pay them what they are worth?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Well I guess the South Oval Think Tank petered out on developing brillant solutions to illegal immigration.

Now that a 3 day weekend is here and I'm not working to pay taxes to support those of you who get paid by gov't checks, I'll respond to some of the nonsense in this thread.

Jesus ****ing Christ.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Harry: I think your premise is flawed in that you assume the illegals actually give a **** about being legal and/or citizens. It's been my experience that they generally don't want either.


and by very large number, you mean the equivalent of 3% of the 12 million illegals have filed petitions for residency

So, I guess Harry is right then. You already knew that though, didn't you.

Rubi, can you possibly be any more disingenuous?

First, it's not 12 million. We had a recession and about 1 million went home - the first net outward flow since the great depression. So, a ****ty economy is your friend if you want fewer folks migrating to the U.S. - legally or illegally. Three cheers for the recession!

Second 3% of 12 million = 400,000. In some years there's nearly that many who have pending asylum petitions, alone.

Most every Catholic Church is associated with a Catholic Charities organization that helps those who don't have the resources to hire an immigration attorney to assist in filing petitions. Guess what, Rubi. A "large number" are Catholic. I'm guessing all of your illegal alien buddies just don't confide in you concerning their legal status situation and any pending applications. There are some categories that move so slow there is nearly a 20 year backlog, with the priority dates moving maybe a month or so each year.

Lots of them are waiting here under Section 245i, which allows them to adjust status in the U.S. They are in legal limbo, since if they go home, they are banned from returning for 10 years. Any immigration attorney will tell them DO NOT GO HOME.


And at any given time you'll have pending applications based on marriage, where one illegally present marries a citizen. This is the quickest path to legal residency for some.


Third, You belittling my point about "a large number" shows you missed the point. Not everyone qualifies to petition. Probably most don't. Under a family sponsorship, you have to have an immediate family member who is a citizen (in the case of parents, permanent residency suffices). Most would love to be here legally, but don't have a sponsor (either an immediate family member who can file I-130 or an employer who can file for H2A or H2B categories). My position, all along, has been the need to reform the laws to make petitioning possible via streamlined worker visas. With worker visas, we'd have a net flow of migrants passing in and out as dictated by demand of labor.



So even if your "3%" were correct ,,, if only "4%" qualify to petition, that in no way shows most of the 10.8 million don't care. Rather, the explanation would be they don't qualify under current law - in spite of the tens of millions of net new jobs that were created during good times. No worker visa reform was realized to handle the insatiable demand for inexpensive labor during the Reagan-Clinton superbull market.

You can thank the booming economy coupled w/ no legal way to meet labor demands for many of those illegally present today.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Maybe I am totally ignorant on this...but it seems to me, if you stop taxing the hell out of businesses for providing products and services, then it would free up money for them to hire legals and pay them what they are worth?

I'm all for lower taxes for businesses. But any money freed up to pay more for labor should go to the most productive labor. If legal workers are the most productive, then pay them more. If there are other workers who are more productive then they should be reauthorized legal. If legals don't work as hard, they should be paid less, not more.

There should be a free market of labor with no welfare. Let the religious and secular organizations take care of the needy and lazy, not gov't.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

In the same sense that a bank is the land of opportunity to a thief.

Exchanging labor for pay is not stealing. Working doesn't need to be illegal. Robbing banks should be illegal.

[delhalew]

I'm all for lower taxes for businesses. But any money freed up to pay more for labor should go to the most productive labor. If legal workers are the most productive, then pay them more. If there are other workers who are more productive then they should be reauthorized legal. If legals don't work as hard, they should be paid less, not more.

There should be a free market of labor with no welfare. Let the religious and secular organizations take care of the needy and lazy, not gov't.

Broken record, dead horse beating...bull****! Free market does not mean hire criminals. NO ONE IS BUYING YOUR IDIOTIC TWISTING OF THE FREE MARKET.

[StoopTroup]

Except Carlos Mencia. :D

[SanJoaquinSooner]

SJS: Most would love to be here legally, but don't have a sponsor (either an immediate family member who can file I-130 or an employer* who can file for H2A or H2B categories).


and in a past thread, it was established that Olevet wouldn't be able to bring a Mexican National in to cook at his Mexican Restaurant under a visa - so he had to hire Joe Bob McWilliams, who unfortunately needs two weeks off in July to attend a video game tournament.

[StoopTroup]

You could cover JoeBobs shift right?