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Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 11:02 AM
http://www.hrmorning.com/obama-administrations-latest-push-for-unionization-the-threats-real/


Get the feeling the Obama administration’s pushing for increased union participation? Just wait ’til you hear the latest development.

The National Mediation Board (NMB) — which basically serves as the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) for railroads and airlines — has just made it easier for employees in those industries to unionize.

The three-member NMB adopted a new rule: If more than half of voting employees approve, the union’s in.

Under the old rule — which had been in effect since the mid-1930s — a union could only be certified if it was approved by a majority of the entire workforce that would be organized. Under that arrangement, workers who didn’t cast ballots were counted as “no” votes.

New appointment is the key

Here’s the backstory: The rule change became possible after President Obama appointed Linda Puchala, a former airline union official, to the NMB earlier this year.

The other members of the board are Harry Hoglander, a former pilot and union honcho, and Elizabeth Dougherty, an attorney and former aide to President George W. Bush.

As you might imagine, Dougherty cast the a dissenting vote on the rule change, which she called “the most dramatic policy shift in the history of the (NMB).”

The shape of things to come

This decision isn’t all that earthshaking — after all, it only directly affects two industries — but it’s pretty clear it’s a harbinger of things to come.

Why? Because of a couple of other Obama administration appointments to the NLRB.

Recently, the president announced he was appointing attorneys Craig Becker and Mark Pearce to the five-member board.

Pearce is a practicing union lawyer. Becker has represented the Service Employees International Union and the AFL-CIO.

Becker and Pearce joined NLRB chair Wilma Liebman to give the NLRB a three-member Democratic majority.

Both appointments were bitterly opposed by business groups, so the two became “recess appointments” — made when Congress wasn’t in session — so neither had to go through the Senate confirmation process.

Bottom line: NLRB hearings aren’t likely to be all that pleasant for employers in the foreseeable future.

Sign of the times

It would have seemed impossible just a few years ago, but the potential for companies to face organizing efforts has increased substantially since the recession hit. Job losses, wage freezes and benefits cuts all tend to threaten employees’ sense of security — and unions offer workers what appears to be a measure of protection.

That’s why savvy companies continue to do their very best to keep the lines of communications open and morale high. Workers who feel like they’re getting the straight story — and are part of a team that will eventually be rewarded for hanging in through tough times — don’t feel the need to turn to a union for protection.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 11:09 AM
Other than you have developed the ability to cut and paste....what's your point?

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 11:19 AM
Just wondering if anyone has any comments. Duh!

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 11:28 AM
Evidently they don't.

Curly Bill
5/22/2010, 11:46 AM
Unions do some good things, but they largely suck!

There's ya a comment.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 11:49 AM
Evidently they don't.

So be it.

Whatever, dude.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 01:45 PM
Unions do some good things, but they largely suck!

There's ya a comment.

And there ya go....lol

SanJoaquinSooner
5/22/2010, 02:01 PM
unions killed the goose that laid the golden eggs.

free markets are the answer to an artificially induced scarcity of labor.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 02:05 PM
OMG, we agree on something? (Actually, I'm not a real free-marketer because I support closing of strip joints, but that's another thread.)

I just find it funny that we are pushing for increased unionization after seeing our auto industry collapse.

SanJoaquinSooner
5/22/2010, 02:22 PM
OMG, we agree on something? (Actually, I'm not a real free-marketer because I support closing of strip joints, but that's another thread.)

I just find it funny that we are pushing for increased unionization after seeing our auto industry collapse.

I'm a card-carrying member of the CATO institute. We believe both strippers and consumers of stripping are people too.:)

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 02:50 PM
Leroy found his soulmate. Lol

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 02:53 PM
SJS my soul mate? You and I probably agree on more issues.


'm a card-carrying member of the CATO institute. We believe both strippers and consumers of stripping are people too

Consumers of stripping? Sure, if you are talking about weather-stripping.

delhalew
5/22/2010, 04:04 PM
The union issue is worse than ever. They have been connected to the Democratic party for so long, modern administrations have learned to use them in a frightening manner. The ACLU and SEIU in particular are now just the thuggish arm of the Obama administration and (D) representatives. They are used to reach out touch citizens in a way a politician can't be directly connected to.
Research "workers" unions roles in the bringing about of dictatorial regimes throughout history.

delhalew
5/22/2010, 04:15 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/19/news/companies/SEIU_Bank_of_America_protest.fortune/

What's really behind SEIU's Bank of America protests?
banker_protest.top.jpg By Nina EastonMay 19, 2010: 6:15 AM ET


(FORTUNE) -- Every journalist loves a peaceful protest-whether it makes news, shakes up a political season, or holds out the possibility of altering history. Then there are the ones that show up on your curb--literally.

Last Sunday, on a peaceful, sun-crisp afternoon, our toddler finally napping upstairs, my front yard exploded with 500 screaming, placard-waving strangers on a mission to intimidate my neighbor, Greg Baer. Baer is deputy general counsel for corporate law at Bank of America (BAC, Fortune 500), a senior executive based in Washington, D.C. And that -- in the minds of the organizers at the politically influential Service Employees International Union and a Chicago outfit called National Political Action -- makes his family fair game.

Waving signs denouncing bank "greed," hordes of invaders poured out of 14 school buses, up Baer's steps, and onto his front porch. As bullhorns rattled with stories of debtor calls and foreclosed homes, Baer's teenage son Jack -- alone in the house -- locked himself in the bathroom. "When are they going to leave?" Jack pleaded when I called to check on him.

Baer, on his way home from a Little League game, parked his car around the corner, called the police, and made a quick calculation to leave his younger son behind while he tried to rescue his increasingly distressed teen. He made his way through a din of barked demands and insults from the activists who proudly "outed" him, and slipped through his front door.

"Excuse me," Baer told his accusers, "I need to get into the house. I have a child who is alone in there and frightened."
When is a protest not a protest?

Now this event would accurately be called a "protest" if it were taking place at, say, a bank or the U.S. Capitol. But when hundreds of loud and angry strangers are descending on your family, your children, and your home, a more apt description of this assemblage would be "mob." Intimidation was the whole point of this exercise, and it worked-even on the police. A trio of officers who belatedly answered our calls confessed a fear that arrests might "incite" these trespassers.

What's interesting is that SEIU, the nation's second largest union, craves respectability. Just-retired president Andy Stern is an Obama friend and regular White House visitor. He sits on the President's Fiscal Responsibility Commission. He hobnobs with those greedy Wall Street CEOs -- executives much higher-ranking than my neighbor Baer -- at Davos. His union spent $70 million getting Democrats elected in 2008.

In the business community, though, SEIU has a reputation for strong-arm tactics against management, prompting some companies to file suit.

Now those strong-arm tactics, stirred by supposedly free-floating (as opposed to organized) populist rage, have come to the neighborhood curb. Last year it was AIG executives -- with protestors met by security guard outside. Now it's any executive -- and they're on the front stoop. After Baer's house, the 14 buses left to descend on the nearby residence of Peter Scher, a government relations executive at JPMorgan Chase (JPM, Fortune 500).

Targeting homes and families seems to put SEIU in the ranks of (now jailed) radical animal-rights activists and the Kansas anti-gay fundamentalists harassing the grieving parents of a dead 20-year-old soldier at his funeral (the Supreme Court has agreed to weigh in on the latter). But that's not a conversation that SEIU officials want to have.

When I asked Stephen Lerner, SEIU's point-person on Wall Street reform, about these tactics, he accused me of getting "emotional." Lerner was more comfortable sticking to his talking points: "Millions of people are losing their homes, and they have gone to the banks, which are turning a deaf ear."

Okay, fine, then why not continue SEIU protests at bank offices and shareholder meetings-as the union has been doing for more than a year? Lerner insists, "People in powerful corporations seem to think they can insulate themselves from the damage they are doing."
Other reasons why SEIU might protest

Bank of America officials dispute Lerner's assertion about the "damage they are doing," citing the success of workout programs to help distressed homeowners, praise received from community groups, the bank's support of financial reform legislation, and the little-noticed fact that Bank of America exited the subprime lending business in 2001.

SEIU has said it wants to organize bank tellers and call centers -- and its critics point out that a great way to worsen employee morale, thereby making workers more susceptible to union calls, is to batter a bank's image through protest. (SEIU officials say their anti-Wall Street campaign has nothing to do with their organizing efforts.) Complicating this picture is the fact that BofA is the union's lender of choice -- and SEIU, suffering financially, owes the bank nearly $4 million in interest and fees. Bank of America declined comment on the loans.
0:00 /4:27Banks: The new punching bag

But SEIU's intentions, and BofA's lender record, are ripe subjects to debate in Congress, on air, at shareholder hearings. Not in Greg Baer's front yard.
Why the media wasn't invited

Sunday's onslaught wasn't designed for mainstream media consumption. There were no reporters from organizations like the Washington Post, no local camera crews who might have aired criticism of this private-home invasion. With the media covering the conservative Tea Party protesters, the behavior of individual activists has drawn withering scrutiny.

Instead, a friendly Huffington Post blogger showed up, narrowcasting coverage to the union's leftist base. The rest of the message these protesters brought was personal-aimed at frightening Baer and his family, not influencing a broader public.

Of course, HuffPost readers responding to the coverage assumed that Baer was an evil former Bush official. He's not. A lifelong Democrat, Baer worked for the Clinton Treasury Department, and his wife, Shirley Sagawa, author of the book The American Way to Change and a former adviser to Hillary Clinton, is a prominent national service advocate.

In the 1990s, the Baers' former bosses, Bill and Hillary Clinton, denounced the "politics of personal destruction." Today politicians and their voters of all stripes grieve the ugly bitterness that permeates our policy debates. Now, with populist rage providing a useful cover, it appears we've crossed into a new era: The politics of personal intimidation.

delhalew
5/22/2010, 04:25 PM
Wonder why Dems are fighting for CardCheck?

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/26/union-intimidation-on-video/

Dio
5/22/2010, 05:36 PM
I wonder if there's "Make my day" law in that state? And I wonder how quick a bunch of a**holes could fill 14 busses and get the hell out, minus the 3 or 4 closest to my front door.

SanJoaquinSooner
5/22/2010, 05:50 PM
SJS my soul mate? You and I probably agree on more issues.



Consumers of stripping? Sure, if you are talking about weather-stripping.

No, stripping done by babes who are not forced to join unions.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 05:57 PM
It's Matewan all over again. Except this time it's the unions wearing the black hat.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 06:01 PM
It's Matewan all over again. Except this time it's the unions wearing the black hat.

So the Unions used to wear white hats?

Was that when you were a Union Leader?

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 06:02 PM
Wonder why Dems are fighting for CardCheck?

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/26/union-intimidation-on-video/

Sick. Totally sick.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 06:04 PM
So the Unions used to wear white hats?

Was that when you were a Union Leader?

I was referring to the movie, where the miners were portrayed as the good guys.

Thought you had me cornered, huh?

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 06:34 PM
Sick. Totally sick.

Sick yet...


The COMPANY signed a Neutrality Agreement

I mean...WTF...

You know it's a Union Job....you put in an application...they stick a card in front of your face...and...you get upset when they give you a hard time?

Seriously....people are complete idiots sometimes. If you don't like Unions don't work in places where Companies support it.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 06:41 PM
Sick yet...

I mean...WTF...

You know it's a Union Job....you put in an application...they stick a card in front of your face...and...you get upset when they give you a hard time?

Seriously....people are complete idiots sometimes. If you don't like Unions don't work in places where Companies support it.

The union asked them to join, and they said "no." Where I come from, "no" means "no."

What does "no" mean where you come from?

BTW, a neutrality agreement does not make it a union shop, only that the shop will support the union's attempt to sign up members. That means that the employees had every right to say no.

More importantly, the secret ballot allowed the employees the FREEDOM to choose whether to join or not free from harassment. You support that, right?

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 06:43 PM
The union asked them to join, and they said "no." Where I come from, "no" means "no."

What does "no" mean where you come from?

BTW, a neutrality agreement does not make it a union shop, only that the shop will support the union's attempt to sign up members. That means that the employees had every right to say no.

More importantly, the secret ballot allowed the employees the FREEDOM to choose whether to join or not free from harassment. You support that, right?

Seriously...

They got a secret ballot. What's the big deal? The Union has a right to try and recruit you too. Some of you act like the Mafia is gonna break your freaking legs or something. There is no Mafia anymore....just the Federal Government.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 06:46 PM
Oh and Leroy....What if the folks who were pushing for the Secret Ballot started recruiting you to vote against the Union. What if they came by your House to ask for your support? What if they went as far as sending you an Email. Oh...the horror....lol

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 06:49 PM
Seriously...

They got a secret ballot. What's the big deal? The Union has a right to try and recruit you too. Some of you act like the Mafia is gonna break your freaking legs or something. There is no Mafia anymore....just the Federal Government.

Do you support the use of a secret ballot? Yes or no?

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 06:52 PM
Oh and Leroy....What if the folks who were pushing for the Secret Ballot started recruiting you to vote against the Union. What if they came by your House to ask for your support? What if they went as far as sending you an Email. Oh...the horror....lol

I would tell them I already planned to vote against the union and that would be the end of it. Where's the horror?

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 06:56 PM
And the folks at the plant told them "No" and even rallied together and wrote the NLRB to get a secret ballot. No laws were needed. No Military had to be called out. They got it done and by the sound of things in that article...Fox News nor any Politician had to get involved. Obama didn't send in a Czar and force them to sign cards. McCain or Palin or The Tea Party didn't have to stage a protest....the people who worked at the plant...got together and worked it out. Now...lets face it....there are some folks that work there that aren't to pleased with how things ended up and now it's The Companies problem should any incidents occur.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 07:02 PM
And the folks at the plant told them "No" and even rallied together and wrote the NLRB to get a secret ballot. No laws were needed. No Military had to be called out. They got it done and by the sound of things in that article...Fox News nor any Politician had to get involved. Obama didn't send in a Czar and force them to sign cards. McCain or Palin or The Tea Party didn't have to stage a protest....the people who worked at the plant...got together and worked it out. Now...lets face it....there are some folks that work there that aren't to pleased with how things ended up and now it's The Companies problem should any incidents occur.

Do you support the use of a secret ballot? Yes or no?

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 07:05 PM
Oh, I appreciate the ploy to get me to ask you multiple times so that you can scream "harassment." But you are capable of answering the question, no?

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 07:07 PM
Oh, I appreciate the ploy to get me to ask you multiple times so that you can scream "harassment." But you are capable of answering the question, no?

Well....isn't the Company going to do something about the harassment? I know mine would.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 07:13 PM
StoopTroup, do you support the use of a secret ballot? Yes or no?

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 07:26 PM
If the people support a secret ballot I support the secret ballot....once the results are in...they should post the results so that everyone knows where they stand on the issue of being a Non-Union or a Union Shop....then each of them won't have to lie to each other anymore and they can verify that it was indeed fair and not run by the man or the NLRB to get what he/they want.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 07:28 PM
If the people support a secret ballot I support the secret ballot....once the results are in...they should post the results so that everyone knows where they stand on the issue of being a Non-Union or a Union Shop....then each of them won't have to lie to each other anymore.

Ha! ha! ha! Let me get this straight... you support a secret ballot as long as they divulge each person's vote?!?!

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 07:30 PM
Ha! ha! ha! Let me get this straight... you support a secret ballot as long as they divulge each person's vote?!?!

How are you going to know if the ballot box isn't fixed then?

GKeeper316
5/22/2010, 07:31 PM
so how come all you anti union guys never say anything about police and firefighter unions?

they secure public funds for their members, not private business, but they are immune from your wrath and hate because what they do is more "important" than us regular folks?

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 07:34 PM
How are you going to know if the ballot box isn't fixed then?

That didn't seem to be your concern when you wrote:


then each of them won't have to lie to each other anymore.

You fully support union harassment and you know it. You want the names divulged so that the union people can seek vengeance on those that didn't vote their way.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 07:38 PM
so how come all you anti union guys never say anything about police and firefighter unions?

they secure public funds for their members, not private business, but they are immune from your wrath and hate because what they do is more "important" than us regular folks?

I haven't heard much of any strong-arm tactics by those unions, so I have no opinion on them.

I am not opposed to unions as long as they are truly voluntary and the union officials well-behaved. As soon as they start harassing, my opinion changes.

Give the people the literature on your union and let them vote however they wish in a secret ballot. Let the best man win. You would think everyone would support such a notion, but evidently there are people who think strong-armed tactics are the way to go.

delhalew
5/22/2010, 07:41 PM
And the folks at the plant told them "No" and even rallied together and wrote the NLRB to get a secret ballot. No laws were needed. No Military had to be called out. They got it done and by the sound of things in that article...Fox News nor any Politician had to get involved. Obama didn't send in a Czar and force them to sign cards. McCain or Palin or The Tea Party didn't have to stage a protest....the people who worked at the plant...got together and worked it out. Now...lets face it....there are some folks that work there that aren't to pleased with how things ended up and now it's The Companies problem should any incidents occur.

The problem ST...is they are trying to make that a thing of the past.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/27/obama-makes-recess-appointments-vacant-administration-posts/
This Becker guy thinks he can do an end around on card check and skip the legislative branch.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 07:45 PM
Well....that's really the deal isn't it. One side doesn't like the other so they try to butt**** each other to death using everything they can think of and all the while The Companies just sit there watching them all fight and the employees who are trying to make a living are just pawns in each of those idjits game playing...

This **** has been going on longer than most of you have had to make a living. Yawn.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 07:53 PM
The problem ST...is they are trying to make that a thing of the past.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/27/obama-makes-recess-appointments-vacant-administration-posts/
This Becker guy thinks he can do an end around on card check and skip the legislative branch.

Which really puts Leroid looking like an even bigger dunce than he usually does because it's not Obama and the Unions....it's Becker and Fox....calling foul on something their boy George did all the time.

What comes around goes around huh?


Obama noted that former President George W. Bush made 15 recess appointments by this point in his presidency, "but he was not facing the same level of obstruction."

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 07:53 PM
This **** has been going on longer than most of you have had to make a living. Yawn.

Union strong arm tactics? Yeah, they have been going on for a long time and they need to stop.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 07:55 PM
As well as does Recess Appointments probably needed to stop about 10 years ago too....so what's your point?

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 07:57 PM
Which really puts Leroid looking like an even bigger dunce than he usually does because it's not Obama and the Unions....it's Becker and Fox....calling foul on something their boy George did all the time.

What comes around goes around huh?

You're babbling. The original story was very much about Obama and the unions. Read the linked story.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 07:59 PM
As well as does Recess Appointments probably needed to stop about 10 years ago too....so what's your point?

If they need to stop, then don't do them. If you do them, you should be criticized.

delhalew
5/22/2010, 08:00 PM
Which really puts Leroid looking like an even bigger dunce than he usually does because it's not Obama and the Unions....it's Becker and Fox....calling foul on something their boy George did all the time.

What comes around goes around huh?

Does that make it right? It's not how he made the appointment that bothers me most, but who he appointed and what he has planned.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 08:06 PM
Does that make it right? It's not how he made the appointment that bothers me most, but who he appointed and what he has planned.

Well yeah it matters. We want everything in life to be fair right? That is unless it's something we don't like....then there ought to be a law or someone ought to do something about it so we'll all feel better about the stuff that really doesn't affect us other than the fact we just don't like it because Fox News doesn't like it.

bluedogok
5/22/2010, 08:12 PM
A union isn't in place to "make things right", they exist to make the union leadership money.

At one time in history there were altruistic reasons for unions but those reasons vanished a long, long time ago and really vanished when the unions became nothing more than large corporations with employees as their widgets.

Turd_Ferguson
5/22/2010, 08:16 PM
A union isn't in place to "make things right", they exist to make the union leadership money.

At one time in history there were altruistic reasons for unions but those reasons vanished a long, long time ago and really vanished when the unions became nothing more than large corporations with employees as their widgets.concur.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 08:16 PM
Then Companies shouldn't sign Neutrality Agreements with them right?

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 08:20 PM
If I thought every Company/Owner of every business in America was about creating a great company and making their shareholders money...I'd probably feel a bit different about getting rid of all the Unions....but really...we all know the Unions will never completely go away and that they were created because of Worker Abuses.

Nothing would change without Unions...the need for them would come quickly just as the need to stop these Financial Institutions who were supposed to Self Regulate themselves.

Unions may exist now to make Union Bosses money....but it wasn't always that way.

Get real.

GKeeper316
5/22/2010, 08:28 PM
labor unions built the middle class in america.

without labor unions, most of the workplace laws we work under wouldnt exist.

Turd_Ferguson
5/22/2010, 08:33 PM
labor unions built the middle class in america.

without labor unions, most of the workplace laws we work under wouldnt exist.Yup, and they also got Joe Bob 75 per hr to bolt seats into ford exploders. That way, we can pay 3x what it's actually worth.

delhalew
5/22/2010, 08:37 PM
Well yeah it matters. We want everything in life to be fair right? That is unless it's something we don't like....then there ought to be a law or someone ought to do something about it so we'll all feel better about the stuff that really doesn't affect us other than the fact we just don't like it because Fox News doesn't like it.

You're gonna lose me here. I don't see what any of this has to do with Fox news. So many stories come from Fox because they are number one. Unless you are watching an opinion show, they have no more bias than CNN(may not be saying much). Say what you will, but NBC and affiliates are nothing more than the propaganda arm of the administration.

You have to take a stand sooner or later. It helps if your opinions aren't discounted because some other doosh pulled the same crap a few years ago.

delhalew
5/22/2010, 08:42 PM
labor unions built the middle class in america.

without labor unions, most of the workplace laws we work under wouldnt exist.

Like the forty hour week...http://blog.riseofreason.com/socialist-platform-of-1928/111/

When the socialist party ran a candidate for President in 1928 it received less than 1% of the popular vote, but its platform has been adopted by both major political parties. What follows is an excerpt from Milton and Rose Friedman’s book titled Free to Choose. Most of it is directly copied from the book and only select parts are amended by me. All dollar figures are from the date it was written so are not accurate today. The book was published in 1978. You may find many areas that I have not amended that could easily be added to with the legislation that has passed since 1978, but this will give you a general idea of how close the government of these United States is to being socialist today.

Herewith the economic planks of the socialist party platform of 1928, along with an indication in parentheses of how these planks have fared. The list that follows includes every economic plank, but not the full language of each.

1. “Nationalization of our natural resources, beginning with the coal mines and water sites, particularly at Boulder Dam an Muscle Shoals.” (Boulder Dam, renamed Hoover Damn, and Muscle Shoals are now both federal government projects.)
2. “A publicly owned giant power system under which the federal government shall cooperate with the states and municipalities in the distribution of electrical energy to the people at cost.” (This is a generally accepted process across the country.)
3. “National ownership and democratic management of railroads and other means of transportation and communication.” (Railroad passenger service is completely nationalized through Amtrak. Some freight service is nationalized through Conrail. Private railroads are strictly regulated by the Federal Government. The FCC controls communications by telephone, telegraph, radio, and television.)
4. “An adequate national program for flood control, flood relief, reforestation, irrigation, and reclamation.” (Government expenditures for these purposes are currently in thee many billions of dollars.)
5. “Immediate governmental relief of the unemployed by the extension of all public works and a program of long range planning of public works . . .” (In the 1930s, WPA and PWA were a direct counterpart; now, a wide variety of other programs are.) “All persons thus employed to be engaged at hours and wages fixed by bona-fide labor unions.” (The Davis-Bacon and Walsh-Healey Acts require contractors with government contracts to pay “prevailing wages,” generally interpreted as highest union wages – also the national minimum wage.)
6. “Loans to states and municipalities without interest for the purpose of carrying on public works and the taking of such other measures as will lessen widespread misery.” (Federal grants in aid to states and local municipalities currently total tens of billions of dollars a year.)
7. “A system of unemployment insurance.” (Part of Social Security system.)
8. “The nation-wide extension of public employment agencies in cooperation with city federations of labor.” (U.S. Employment Service and affiliated state employment services administer a network of about 2,500 local employment offices.)
9. “A system of health and accident insurance and of old age pensions as well as unemployment insurance.” (Part of Social Security. Full global health insurance proposed widely.)
10. “Shortening the workday” and “Securing every worker a rest period of no less than two days in each week.” (Legislated by wages and hours laws that require overtime for more than forty hours of work per week.)
11. “Enacting of an adequate federal anti-child labor amendment.” (Not achieved as amendment, but essence incorporated into various legislative acts.)
12. “Abolition of the brutal exploitation of convicts under the contract system and substitution of a cooperative organization of industries in penitentiaries and workshops for the benefit of convicts and their dependents.” (Partly achieved, partly not.)
13. “Increase taxation on high income levels, of corporation taxes and inheritance taxes, the proceeds to be used for old age pensions and other forms of social insurance.” (In 1928, highest personal income tax rate, 25 percent; in 2008, 35 percent, above 40 percent proposed by Obama; in 1928, corporate tax rate, 12 percent; in 2008, 35-39% percent with proposed increases by Obama; in 1928, top federal estate tax rate, 20 percent; in 2008, 48% with proposed increases by Obama.)
14. “Appropriation by taxation of the annual rental value of all land held for speculation.” (Not achieved in this form, but property taxes have risen drastically.)

I'm not saying all these are awful, but let's be intellectually honest. BTW, minimum wage and most of our labor laws are the result of the socialist party platform from different years, enacted by progressives in this country.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 08:55 PM
Yup, and they also got Joe Bob 75 per hr to bolt seats into ford exploders. That way, we can pay 3x what it's actually worth.

And I won't disagree with you on that either. Joe is way overpaid. So is his Boss/Bosses.

That's really what IMO has happened. The Unions know the CEOs are greedy and don't have the balls to face them down to a strike. The CEOs know if they do their bonus and possibly their job/company will go away and their resume will be worthless and they might have to resort to living off the millions they bilked from the Company and move to Colorado smoke pot and ski for a Decade or so until everybody forgets what he did. The Board of Directors aren't going to let the CEO stand up to the Unions because if they do the Company might go into the crapper and since many or their portfolios are riding on cashing out down the road...they aren't going to let the CEO stand up to the Unions. Plus...the stock holders and especially the rich and powerful ones...aren't going to sit quietly by either and let any of those *******s gamble with their dough when they could just negotiate with the Unions and let someone else handle it later on down the road.

It's a shell game that many of you would like to blame on Unions....but they really don't have as much power as these Corporations do. I give you Northwest Airlines. They blamed the Unions on their woes. They got rid of the Unions and they still failed. United Airlines got rid of their Unionized Maintenance because it was a huge liability/cost they could hire out to Maintenance Repair Facilities. They have continued to hire back many folks to do their maintenance because they lost control of the turnaround times and ended up not having planes to fill slots they sold tickets for.

Again...the Unions fault.

There is a lot of abuse from all sides.

I'm not going to sit here and say it's all the CEOs in this Country...I'm not going to blame the Board of Directors or the Shareholders either....but I'm not going to sit here and listen to a bunch of folks try and blame the woes of these Companies on the workers either. Collectively...it's all a cluster**** IMO.

I have been trying to do business with local business owners in my City and avoid any Corporate type of outlets and restaurants for the last decade. I believe in the Private Sector more than most people I know.

Any of you who think I'm am Pro-Union or a Union sympathizer are way off.

I just don't think some businesses would be able to run any better without them is all.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 09:04 PM
So many stories come from Fox because they are number one.

There's no number one anymore....Fox and all the 24 hour news entities are mostly opinion loaded TV. They do very little in-depth reporting of the news. Hell...most people don't want to hear it anyway.

delhalew
5/22/2010, 09:09 PM
There's no number one anymore....Fox and all the 24 hour news entities are mostly opinion loaded TV. They do very little in-depth reporting of the news. Hell...most people don't want to hear it anyway.

Are you trying to say that the networks are were journalism lives...lolz.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 09:14 PM
Most real journalist are employed doing something else.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 09:32 PM
This has been a fascinating discussion with a lot of input from many posters.


:D

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 09:40 PM
You should have been here the last decade or so before all the folks like you left. :D

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 09:57 PM
I have posted in here for a long, long time.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 10:00 PM
Well....that's to long.....

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 10:00 PM
kX8Qqu_WBIc

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 10:05 PM
SK1jpywBQLM

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 10:06 PM
STAk6sPjEbw&feature=related

bluedogok
5/22/2010, 10:12 PM
There is a lot of abuse from all sides.
THAT is about the only constant....

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 10:31 PM
THAT is about the only constant....

What about the sun coming up in the morning and setting in the evening?

What about lizards that sun themselves on non-union rocks? Should they get OKd by the Corp of Engineers before using said rocks?

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 10:40 PM
Would this be one of those secret approvals you like so much... you know, the type where you announce the approval afterwards?

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 10:54 PM
People should clean up after their lizards when they take them on walks. I hate it when they leave their lizard's poop on the jogging trail.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/22/2010, 11:05 PM
I just find it funny that we are pushing for increased unionization after seeing our auto industry collapse.You are trying to petition for logic where only contempt for business exists.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 11:16 PM
What logic is there when a CEO takes a multi-million dollar bonus and runs his Company in the red every year while Stockholders watch their investment dwindle?

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 11:17 PM
What logic is there when GM continues to say they have paid back every penny when it's not true at all?

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 11:19 PM
What logic is there for automakers to take advantage of a Cash for Clunkers Government Program and cut the throats of Dealerships who were profitable even after the economy when into the crapper?

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 11:20 PM
What logic is there when a CEO takes a multi-million dollar bonus and runs his Company in the red every year while Stockholders watch their investment dwindle?

CEO's don't take bonuses; they are given to them by the company board. And the board is answerable to the stockholders who can simply sell their shares if they want.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 11:21 PM
Logic.

LMAO.

What logic is there for those same automakers to have rooms where they send people to play cards or read books? What logic is there for those automakers to negotiate contracts that lay people off with pay?

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 11:22 PM
CEO's don't take bonuses; they are given to them by the company board. And the board is answerable to the stockholders who can simply sell their shares if they want.

OK....you're seriously going to defend the Company Board of Directors too?

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 11:23 PM
You complain about Unions like they are "The Good Ole Boys Club" that control these mega-Corporations like puppets and it's so much the other way around.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 11:25 PM
BTW Leroid...didn't you say you were a Teacher?

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 11:32 PM
What logic is there for automakers to take advantage of a Cash for Clunkers Government Program and cut the throats of Dealerships who were profitable even after the economy when into the crapper?

When sales are down, dealerships start competing with each other for sales of the same car, which drives down profits. Auto dealers for a long time had too many dealerships, but cutting a dealership is tough to do. Bankruptcy makes it much easier.

GM may make crappy cars (like the Camaro), but the executives are not stupid. They wouldn't be closing down dealerships without a good reason.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 11:34 PM
OK....you're seriously going to defend the Company Board of Directors too?

I don't have to defend them. It's the shareholders' company and the board is voted in by the shareholders. If the board thinks the CEO deserves a raise, who am I to say otherwise? Even if I owned a share, I can still vote with my feet.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 11:35 PM
BTW Leroid...didn't you say you were a Teacher?

Yes.

Leroy Lizard
5/22/2010, 11:35 PM
You complain about Unions like they are "The Good Ole Boys Club" that control these mega-Corporations like puppets and it's so much the other way around.

At this point, to whom are you responding?

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 11:43 PM
When sales are down, dealerships start competing with each other for sales of the same car, which drives down profits. Auto dealers for a long time had too many dealerships, but cutting a dealership is tough to do. Bankruptcy makes it much easier.

GM may make crappy cars (like the Camaro), but the executives are not stupid. They wouldn't be closing down dealerships without a good reason.

OK....now your an expert on the Auto Dealerships too? You are the biggest bunch of hot air I've witnessed on this board. Nobody holds a candle to your ever knowing dimwittedness. You will argue that it's not dark in a room compared to the darkness of a black hole...lol

I never said the Executives were stupid....I said they didn't have any balls. If they wanted those Unions gone...they would have done it a long time ago.

It's you and others that are using your link and story about Obama as fuel against the Unions when Corporate America has had the ability to get rid of those Unions for a very long time. They don't do it because it's to their advantage.

You and amny other stereotype Unions as soon as a company of 50 in a small town has one or two Union Legacies get in the face of 20 or 30 people and try to get them to Unionize. Fox probably had to pay 100 people incentives to find that story. Then tie it in with the Obama Administration placement of folks while Congress is out....and you have the makings of a Liberal out of control POTUS who is in bed with the Unions to ruin America.

Again...you are a Teacher. Are you part of a Union? Have you signed a Union Card?

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 11:44 PM
At this point, to whom are you responding?

Mostly you. Everyone else will throw in every now and then....but mostly this thread is you and me having a conversation.

StoopTroup
5/22/2010, 11:54 PM
During the Clinton Administration I went to a Union Meeting where one of the Union Guys starts talking about how if we all would vote Democratic in our State we could put some of our own Co-Workers into office and push to better our cause. The result of his quest for solidarity was damn near a riot. Fox News wasn't there to tape that. I understood what he was trying to say and the funniest part wasn't that the guys who were ready to lynch him would have done it because they were anti-Union....it was because many of them had had their Wives or Girl Friends break up with them and file for a restraining order which made them either hide or sell off their gun collections. A good portion of them could no longer go hunting anymore and they had been to Gun Shows here in Oklahoma which would get you in free if you paid to join the NRA. Then as many of you know....the NRA would fill your mailbox with crap which these guys would read.

Bottomline....most hard working Americans whether they are in a Union or Non-Union Shop/Job put many other things ahead of any of these issues many of you bring up about the Clinton, Bush or the Obama Administrations.

It's laughable to me. Most of it is just internet dribble.

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 12:06 AM
OK....now your an expert on the Auto Dealerships too? You are the biggest bunch of hot air I've witnessed on this board. Nobody holds a candle to your ever knowing dimwittedness.

If I'm dimwitted, how can I be ever-knowing?

The rest of your post really rambles. You make a point that companies could have simply whisked away unions at their own whim, which you do not even bother to substantiate. You just say it.

Face it, you're a union whore who has no problem with unions pulling nasty stunts to coerce people to join. Given the opportunity, you would probably be one of the union hacks yourself, harassing people to buy something they don't want.


You and amny other stereotype Unions as soon as a company of 50 in a small town has one or two Union Legacies get in the face of 20 or 30 people and try to get them to Unionize.

They shouldn't have to get in people's faces. Leave them the **** alone!

If you have something good to sell, you shouldn't have to rely on coercion. As I said before, hand out the union literature and let those that want to join proceed. If your literature cannot persuade, then you need to revise your literature. As soon as a union has to start harassing people, then it is obvious they are up to no good.


Fox probably had to pay 100 people incentives to find that story. Then tie it in with the Obama Administration placement of folks while Congress is out....and you have the makings of a Liberal out of control POTUS who is in bed with the Unions to ruin America.

The people that the POSUS has put in place doesn't make any sleight-of-hand techniques necessary on part of FOX. If a team hires Mike Leach, it's pretty clear they want a wide-open passing attack; ESPN doesn't have to pay people off to come up with that angle.


Again...you are a Teacher. Are you part of a Union? Have you signed a Union Card?

I have been in a union in the past, but dropped membership when they told me to quit eating at a restaurant whose staff had gone on strike. No one tells me where to eat. Some of my wages still go to the union even though I'm not a member. It pisses me off, but it doesn't amount to much.

BTW, the union hacks at the college where I work are the most humorless, bitter people in the community. I would respect them more if they fought for things that really matter.

GKeeper316
5/23/2010, 12:18 AM
Most real journalist are employed doing something else.

this is the absolute truth...

we arent allowed to do real journalism anymore, because all us local stations are owned by multi-national corporations with their own agenda (profit). and when a story paints an advertiser in a negative light, it is immediately killed by the guys that decide show content (news directors, working under corporate management).

make no mistake... journalism isnt journalism anymore. the only reason tv and radio stations exist is to sell you stuff, and if a news story threatens that, well... it aint good business.

i cant begin to tell you folks how many reporters ive known in my day that got into the news game trying to affect change, only to end up so dissillusioned by what passes for news that they left the news and got into corporate pr or left the news entirely. like me. im so saddened by what my station does ive gone back to school at age 37 to retrain and get the **** out of this bull****. i wish someone would have told me that the news isnt the news when i signed up for classes at OU when i left the marines... as it stands right now, i wasted a good 30 grand on a degree that means absolutely squat in the real world anymore.

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 12:24 AM
You complain about Unions like they are "The Good Ole Boys Club" that control these mega-Corporations like puppets and it's so much the other way around.

I don't recall saying anything of the kind. Also, your idea that the corporations push the unions around is a little tough to swallow, unless you really think GM loves to pay riveters $50 an hour. Throughout this thread you have been relying on this stance --- "we're just wee little unions trying our best to fight that big nasty monster who pushes us around at will." Is this the latest union strategy?

Here's a good one for you:

http://www.nrtw.org/en/blog/seiu-union-tyrant-boy-scouts-stop-serving-you11202109


SEIU Union Boss to Boy Scout: How Dare You Serve Your Community!
Fri, 11/20/2009 - 11:14 — Nick Cote

There's nothing new about forced-dues-hungry union bosses complaining about how volunteers and nonprofits don't pay union dues, but this is a new low:

Last week at a city council meeting in Allentown, Pa., a top official of the local Service Employees International Union chapter ranted about 17-year-old Scout Kevin Anderson's park cleanup work. Anderson devoted some 200 hours to the job in order to earn an Eagle Scout badge. He picked up trash and helped clear a 1,000-foot walking path with fellow members of Boy Scouts Troop 301 of Center Valley.

But SEIU's Nick Balzano gave them hell instead of thanks.

Balzano disparaged altruistic efforts in city parks and asserted that "there is (sic) to be no volunteers" since his union members were laid off. He then issued a witch hunt threat: "We'll also be looking into the Cub Scout or Boy Scout who did the trails. We may file another grievance on that." Citing union rules, he gave the Allentown city council, the Boy Scouts and all potential volunteers an iron-fisted ultimatum: "None of them can pick up a hoe. They can't pick up a shovel. They can't plant a flower. They can't clear a bicycle path. They can't do anything. Our people do that."


So is the 17-year-old the big, bad corporation that the wee little union is trying to fight?

delhalew
5/23/2010, 12:29 AM
Fox probably had to pay 100 people incentives to find that story. Then tie it in with the Obama Administration placement of folks while Congress is out....and you have the makings of a Liberal out of control POTUS who is in bed with the Unions to ruin America.

That was actually me that put that all together in pretty package, not fox news. It has taken a hundred years to get here, but here we are.

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 12:29 AM
Check this one out:

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/11/25/18630513.php


SEIU Threatened Immigrant Workers with Deportation
by Mike Rhodes ( editor [at] fresnoalliance.com )
Wednesday Nov 25th, 2009 11:32 AM

Immigrant and disability advocates spoke out at a protest today outside the Fresno office of the labor union SEIU. SEIU came under fire last week for allegedly tampering with ballots and making illegal threats against its own members—including threats that immigrant workers could be deported—in this summer's controversial union election for 10,000 Fresno homecare providers.

Immigrant and disability advocates protest SEIU voter intimidation

Workers say SEIU is retaliating against whistle-blowers after illegal tactics exposed by Wall Street Journal

Fresno, Calif.—Immigrant and disability advocates spoke out at a protest today outside the Fresno office of the labor union SEIU. SEIU came under fire last week for allegedly tampering with ballots and making illegal threats against its own members—including threats that immigrant workers could be deported—in this summer's controversial union election for 10,000 Fresno homecare providers.

"No union has the right to threaten to deport workers," said Leonel Flores, an organizer with the Fresno-based Union de Exbraceros y de Inmigrantes. "Many workers have no way to legalize their status. But all workers have rights. SEIU must stop the threats and start treating workers with respect."

A former SEIU staffer turned whistle-blower, who worked on the election campaign this summer, recently told the Wall Street Journal and the Fresno Bee that he tampered with ballots and threatened workers at the direction of his superiors, who he later witnessed destroying evidence of election violations. He joined another SEIU staff member and six voters in providing sworn testimony in a legal challenge to overturn the election. These whistle-blowers said they began receiving threatening and harassing phone calls soon after their testimony became public.

Fresno disability advocate John Wilkins joined the protest to support the workers, who care for frail seniors and people with disabilities so they can live at home.

"The new evidence confirms everything I heard from homecare providers and consumers during the election," said John Wilkins, a disability advocate in Fresno. "These tactics don't just hurt homecare providers, they hurt people like myself who rely on them. As a consumer, there is nothing I dislike more than bullying and intimidation. There is simply no place for it in any healthcare setting."

Dozens of homecare providers joined the protest, calling for a full investigation by the state labor board and a new election that would allow them to choose freely which union they want to represent them.

"This all started because SEIU was making bad deals with politicians and healthcare companies that hurt workers and the people we care for," said Phally Pov, a homecare provider in Fresno. "Thousands of us asked for that election because we wanted a better union where we'd have a real voice. But SEIU didn't want us to have a choice."

A video released last week shows an SEIU official encouraging hundreds of staff to "deliver an old-school ***-whipping" to the union's critics in the June election, and includes eyewitness accounts from voters who saw SEIU threaten them and take ballots from their mailboxes.

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 01:28 PM
Also, your idea that the corporations push the unions around is a little tough to swallow, unless you really think GM loves to pay riveters $50 an hour. Throughout this thread you have been relying on this stance --- "we're just wee little unions trying our best to fight that big nasty monster who pushes us around at will." Is this the latest union strategy?


Leroid...you continue to point counter point everyone who even tries to give you an answer to what they believe. I really don't care what you think for the most part...never have. You debate **** like you are going to win an internet award for being obnoxious.

I have given you plenty of ammunition to tear apart and take things I've written out of context so you can continue to try and add to the post count of this thread...which I guess really is all you seem to be trying to do...get attention. Attention for some folks whether it's good or bad doesn't seem to matter to them...it doesn't matter to me either as I've played this game with folks like you for decades.

I have no idea what the latest Union Strategy is. What I do know is this...

I've worked on both sides of a Major Corporation for over 23 years. They have 3 different Unions, minimum, that they negotiate with. I know there are things they don't like about the Unions and most of that really brings notice when they are struggling. When they were banking 2 billion a year in profits in the 1990s...they didn't give a rat's ***....they were stuffing dough in their pockets faster than they could find a place to hide it.

Now...as far as Airlines vs. Unions and the tough to swallow part...I'll give you something to chew on.

An Airline that has three Unions. One union is a Pilots Union, Another is a Flight Attendant Union and the other is Maintenance, Bag Handlers, Cabin Cleaners, Technical Specialist, Machinists, Building and Facilities Maintenance, Building Cleaners, Unskilled Laborers....etc...

Airlines need Flight Attendants and Pilots. There are standards that are required for them to operate. Those two Unions together have less folks combined than the 3rd Union does. The bulk of the employees in the 3rd Union are a good percentage of the total amount of the folks who help keep the airline running. Now...the reality is that that 3rd Union has less power to be able to as you say..."Push around a Company" that nets over 20 billion dollars per year. The reality is...that Flight Attendants by law are required but really aren't as highly skilled as Pilots but are a needed entity to running a Flight. Pilots. Here is the key to true strong arming by a Union and the Power of such a Union. A plane isn't going to leave the ground unless a Pilot decides it's going to leave. Pilots have a responsibility that goes way beyond the scope of a Union or really a Company/Corporation. If things don't go well...the results can be catastrophic to say the least. Thus...it's to the Traveling Public Benefit IMHO that they be Unionized so that someone with less training doesn't push someone in charge of an aircraft into making a poor decision because of a schedule or a maintenance problem etc...

The same can be said for Maintenance folks but they aren't usually near as able to be a direct obstacle as say a Pilot who is ultimately the one who gives an "OK" to fly.

So what I'm trying to leave you with...is there are some industries that Unions are still an important part of the way things need to be.

Yes there are going to be some folks who take advantage of these situations that Unions create....but they don't run Companies or Corporations. The Corporations and Companies know they have sometimes no choice but to deal with them.

If that's strong arming...then call it what you want.

IMHO....it's just a way of life that I have very little impact on....I just try to make a living for my Family the best way I know possible. Without the benefit of a Union....I wouldn't be as good at what I do IMO as I am able to make decisions that are good for not only the Company but also the traveling Public and I'm able to do them without having to worry about some idiot trying to make promotion because he meets a schedule or a budget. Sometimes Schedules and Budgets have to take a backseat when it comes to safety.

I'm near the end of my career in this business and feel I should express such things so that not only my kids...but your kids and the kids of others will have a system that I think is a safe and reliable way to travel around the World. There is plenty of room for discussion as to what level of safety is really required...but I think the Federal Aviation Agency and the NTSB as well as the Unions and Corporations are well aware that they must avoid letting things get to far out of hand and that Safety comes first. Unions will always have a place in these types of Industries IMO and yeah...you might see a POTUS get involved to try to keep things in perspective too. Is it a conspiracy? It might be to Walmart or some other Corporation. For me...it's just a reality I have lived with for over 23 years.

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 01:54 PM
Here is the key to true strong arming by a Union and the Power of such a Union. A plane isn't going to leave the ground unless a Pilot decides it's going to leave. Pilots have a responsibility that goes way beyond the scope of a Union or really a Company/Corporation. If things don't go well...the results can be catastrophic to say the least. Thus...it's to the Traveling Public Benefit IMHO that they be Unionized so that someone with less training doesn't push someone in charge of an aircraft into making a poor decision because of a schedule or a maintenance problem etc...

What if the newer guy was better. Would the union support his replacing of the veteran in the interest of public safety?

No.

The union wasn't put in place for the public good. If you believe that, you are hopelessly naive.

Consider education. I am not aware of any union that openly advocates replacing veteran teachers with more skilled, younger teachers.

This propaganda that "the unions are really there for the public good" is a crock and you know it. Show up in a union shop and outskill everyone in there and see how much the union supports you. With unions, it's about seniority regardless of merit.

BTW, Mr. Public Good, check out this news story and tell everyone in here how the public good factored into two unions declaring open war against each other for power.

http://www.beyondchron.org/news/index.php?itemid=7059


Here's a gem, from one union official talking about another union:


SEIU’s Fresno campaign leader Dave Regan echoed Air Force leader General Curtis LeMay’s “total war” strategy toward the Vietnamese when he promised “to drive a stake through heart of the thing that is NUHW,” and “put them in the ground and bury them.”

Public good my ***.

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 01:58 PM
Oh, here more examples of unions fighting for public safety.

http://dirtyrottenscoundrels.wordpress.com/2009/06/21/more-union-videos-you-wont-believe-these/

I especially like the one where they tried to strong-arm a 16-year-old girl into paying union dues by threatening her job.

Oh yeah, they're sooooooo interested in public safety.

Was the United Auto Workers interested in public safety when they used union pension funds to purchase a golf course for union members? (Well, the golf course is really meant for those that can afford the sport -- union OFFICIALS.)

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 02:03 PM
Oh, here more examples of unions fighting for public safety.

http://dirtyrottenscoundrels.wordpress.com/2009/06/21/more-union-videos-you-wont-believe-these/

I especially like the one where they tried to strong-arm a 16-year-old girl into paying union dues by threatening her job.

Oh yeah, they're sooooooo interested in public safety.

Was the United Auto Workers interested in public safety when they used union pension funds to purchase a golf course for union members? (Well, the golf course is really meant for those that can afford the sport -- union OFFICIALS.)

So you do understand...I'm not a UAW Union Boss or an auto worker right?

I never said I thought they were interested in public safety either right?

I said...it's not a perfect World...and there are some folks who take advantage of this not perfect World and that it's not some sort of conspiracy to make everyone in the US a Union Worker.

Just trying to make sure you got that.

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 02:10 PM
One thing I've noticed as well....

Many folks...especially in the last decade or so seem to always bash other folks who make a good living and have benefits or salaries that they do not. It seems that many people take a "****Em" position instead of figuring out a way to get those benefits. It's almost comparable to the granting Illegal Immigrants immunity and giving them benefits that hard working Americans have worked all their lives to not only receive...but to keep that system alive for generations to come. A type of "Protectionism" is displayed and those who aren't on the receiving end suddenly cry foul and think there is a conspiracy to leave them out of something they didn't pay into.

Leroid....I didn't see where you answered whether you were a Unionized Teacher or an Independent Teacher working for a Private School?

delhalew
5/23/2010, 02:13 PM
I would have thought you guys would have focused more on the fact that unions use dues to enable them to operate as a political arm, that many of the workers don't agree with. You have little recourse, because you don't just quit the union.
People seem to gloss over the fact that the big over arching unions don't serve the same purpose that they did in my grandfathers day. Today they achieve political goals through intimidation.

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 02:13 PM
Opps...nevermind...I see it.


No one tells me where to eat. Some of my wages still go to the union even though I'm not a member. It pisses me off, but it doesn't amount to much.

BTW, the union hacks at the college where I work are the most humorless, bitter people in the community. I would respect them more if they fought for things that really matter.

Now I know where your coming from.

This is one of those things I think is wrong with "Right to Work.

Right to work will allow a person who doesn't pay into the Union the same protection that someone who does pay Union Dues. It's just the double edge sword. Unions see it as Union Busting and Right to Work Folks see it as fair.

I think it's an incredible waste of law as it leaves people at odds with each other.

I've seen tiered pay scales in areas before where say a UAW Employee named Leroid made $10.00 an hour while some other guy who had been a Union Worker for 20 years got grandfathered into the last negotiated contract and he works right beside Leroid and makes $50.00 an hour and does maybe even less work than Leroid as he has figured out a way to get just as much done as Leroid does in eight hours in a four or five hour period. Leroid thinks he's working his *** off as he hasn't figured out how the other guy gets away with it. Leroid develops an attitude that he is the one who does all the work around there and the rest of those over paid hacks should not only be fired...but that the Union that protects those slacklers is to blame for his slap in the face of $10 per hour.

Your pretty funny Leroid.

delhalew
5/23/2010, 02:19 PM
One thing I've noticed as well....

Many folks...especially in the last decade or so seem to always bash other folks who make a good living and have benefits or salaries that they do not. It seems that many people take a "****Em" position instead of figuring out a way to get those benefits. It's almost comparable to the granting Illegal Immigrants immunity and giving them benefits that hard working Americans have worked all their lives to not only receive...but to keep that system alive for generations to come. A type of "Protectionism" is displayed and those who aren't on the receiving end suddenly cry foul and think there is a conspiracy to leave them out of something they didn't pay into.

Leroid....I didn't see where you answered whether you were a Unionized Teacher or an Independent Teacher working for a Private School?

It would be foolish for us to expect our employers to match the benefits of public service unions and the likes of the UAW. It is a broken business model and the folks who have those benefits, are so protective of them because they know that they are unrealistic and will bankrupt the municipality or auto company...what have you. It is inevitable that they be reigned in to a realistic level.

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 02:22 PM
Man up and quit paying that Union dues Leroid....put your money where your mouth is and be a man.

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 02:38 PM
It would be foolish for us to expect our employers to match the benefits of public service unions and the likes of the UAW. It is a broken business model and the folks who have those benefits, are so protective of them because they know that they are unrealistic and will bankrupt the municipality or auto company...what have you. It is inevitable that they be reigned in to a realistic level.

I don't disagree.

Again...I said the reason maybe GM Execs didn't take on the Unions may be hidden in some conversations with the Board of Directors and many of the Financial Wizards who advise them all. I'll never think the Execs at GM are a bunch of idiots....they are very good at portraying other people to be at fault for the broken business model.

You are more than likely right...someone will end up dealing with the Unions eventually as many of those guys do seem overpaid for what they do. I'm sure their are many who are from the school of "Give your employer an honest day wages for an honest day pay" types too....but I wouldn't expect a guy who for the last 10-20 years has given his all to be very happy when some Exec shut down his Plant and tried to figure out a way to force him out of his job so they could hire 3 or 4 guys at 10% above minimum wage to replace him in another State. After he'd moved his family around three or four times to keep his job...I'd say he might be a bit disgruntled....lol

In my industry there are some things that basically amount to City or State protection. If a company decides to shut down a part of it's operation the senior employees of the place being shut down might not be able to displace junior workers and have to go onto the unemployment ranks or find another job until an opening in the new place is available. The Company might just not hire at the new place until the recall right of the employee who lost his job has run out. Thus false hope of ever getting his old job was put in place and the Company found a way to get rid of those old workers. They may have gone to the new State and got Tax incentive and maybe even free land to build on the premise that they would stay there for decades and be a boon on the State for employment. As soon as those recall rights were over in the old state...they hire new people in the State that gave them incentives but only after five years. Now...the State that gave them these incentives is poised for them to do it again at the 10 year anniversary and the 2nd plant closes.....lather repeat and rinse.

Union busting.

Yeah....the UAW really had GM at their knees when they closed the plant in OKC huh?

I don't know every detail but I as Leroid...can make up my own conspiracies. :D

delhalew
5/23/2010, 02:49 PM
I do know that auto workers in right to work states make 1/2 to 2/3rds of union workers at the big three (including wages and benefits), and make a very good living.
I find it interesting that when the auto bailouts and bastardized bankruptcy procedures happened, the share holders got hosed and the UAW ended up get the lions share of assets, this quid pro quo with an administration bankrolled by said unions is...alarming.

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 02:54 PM
So you do understand...I'm not a UAW Union Boss or an auto worker right?

I never said I thought they were interested in public safety either right?

Fair enough.


I said...it's not a perfect World...and there are some folks who take advantage of this not perfect World and that it's not some sort of conspiracy to make everyone in the US a Union Worker.

Just trying to make sure you got that.

"It's not a perfect world?" That's your defense of underhanded, mean-spirited, strong-armed tactics? "It's not a perfect world?"

Why don't you come out and condemn those actions by the unions where perfectly innocent people are harassed and, in some cases, assaulted simply because they CHOOSE not to join a union?

And how about coming out and supporting secret ballots so that people can't seek vengeance on those that just happen to disagree with them? (And I don't mean pseudo-secret ballots like the ones you advocate where people are "exposed" afterwards.)

We don't have to get rid of unions, but we should denounce them when they behave badly.

olevetonahill
5/23/2010, 03:07 PM
ll, How many times did ya get yer lunch money taken away from?
Man you sound like a bitter old woman , Wait a minute, Im sorry bitter old women I didnt mean to insult Yall

Hell I bet ya STILL get yer lu8nch money taken.:rolleyes:

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 03:08 PM
Opps...nevermind...I see it.

Now I know where your coming from.

This is one of those things I think is wrong with "Right to Work.

Right to work will allow a person who doesn't pay into the Union the same protection that someone who does pay Union Dues. It's just the double edge sword. Unions see it as Union Busting and Right to Work Folks see it as fair.



What protections?

I'm tenured. Even schools without union protection have tenured professors.

And low pay. Yeah, the union really does us a lot of good.

But they take our money. They're good at doing that. And telling us where we can eat.


I've seen tiered pay scales in areas before where say a UAW Employee named Leroid made $10.00 an hour while some other guy who had been a Union Worker for 20 years got grandfathered into the last negotiated contract and he works right beside Leroid and makes $50.00 an hour and does maybe even less work than Leroid as he has figured out a way to get just as much done as Leroid does in eight hours in a four or five hour period.

Again, you are going by the silly notion that veteran = better. You can measure job performance using other metrics than seniority. In fact, seniority is a rather poor metric, as the old-timers tend to be some of the laziest (and careless) people in the building.

And pray tell us how an UAW assembly line worker can do more work than than the guy standing next to him? How does the veteran pilot do more work than the younger pilot?

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 03:12 PM
Why don't you come out and condemn those actions by the unions where perfectly innocent people are harassed and, in some cases, assaulted simply because they CHOOSE not to join a union?


Because it doesn't affect me?

How about you call for a repeal of all the Right to Work Laws as they aren't a bastion of fairness either?

Why should one guy pay for a guy who works next to him to have Union Protection?

I mean...we can argue right and wrong all day. It's not a perfect World. I stand behind that statement.

You continue to miss my main concern...you seem to think legislation and appointments that are occurring are to blame for many of these people who don't wish to be unionized. Fox has already shown that a group in a SMALL TOWN stood up and got it stopped. I mean WTH else needs to be done?

It's over.

If there is another incident you've found where they need help in stopping such actions...why don't you get hold of them and let them see how one group of people stood up to it?

Why do you think the Government is in some kind of a conspiracy to Unionize these folks? You have no proof that they are.

Seriously...I stand on the fact that there are industries and situations where Unions help and there are some it doesn't. Again...not a perfect World. I know you love that line...lol

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 03:15 PM
What protections?

I'm tenured.

Being Tenured is Protection.

Tenured means your position can't be terminated without just cause.

Once it's terminated...the the hell are you going to do about it?

Answer me that?

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 03:18 PM
How does the veteran pilot do more work than the younger pilot?

The Veteran Pilot is Usually the Captain.

The other one is usually the First officer.

These days....the planes can mostly fly themselves...but in the case of an air incident or say an engine shut down....Who do you think answers for that? The First Officer?

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 03:21 PM
I'll be back later....

I've got an Iguana to torture. I'm gonna post a youtube video of it. I'm getting out of the Hamster thing.
:D ;)

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 03:23 PM
Because it doesn't affect me?

Ha! ha! ha!

Some liberal we've got here.

"It doesn't affect me."


How about you call for a repeal of all the Right to Work Laws as they aren't a bastion of fairness either?

That's just your opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it.


Why should one guy pay for a guy who works next to him to have Union Protection?

Neither guy HAS to pay it. It isn't the one guy's fault that the other guy joined the union and decided to fork over part of his pay check.


I mean...we can argue right and wrong all day. It's not a perfect World. I stand behind that statement.

So you want to argue whether it is right or wrong to physically assault people for not joining an organization? You really want to argue that?


You continue to miss my main concern...you seem to think legislation and appointments that are occurring are to blame for many of these people who don't wish to be unionized. Fox has already shown that a group in a SMALL TOWN stood up and got it stopped. I mean WTH else needs to be done?

They got it stopped AFTER tremendous harassment took place. You conveniently ignore that fact.

You try to make it sound as if this was just a nice, peaceful way of settling an issue. It was not.

And these people used a secret ballot (a REAL secret ballot) to settle the issue, but you don't support real secret ballots.

Thankfully no one was hurt, although that always isn't the case. As long as people like you support union thuggery, violence will occur.


Why do you think the Government is in some kind of a conspiracy to Unionize these folks? You have no proof that they are.

I can't prove any such conspiracy but I can point to recent appointments as evidence that such a conspiracy is under way.

These are unions. Conspiracy is not exactly a bizarre concept in the world of unions. They do it all the time.

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 03:26 PM
The Veteran Pilot is Usually the Captain.

The other one is usually the First officer.

These days....the planes can mostly fly themselves...but in the case of an air incident or say an engine shut down....Who do you think answers for that? The First Officer?

Look at the Canary Islands incident. It was the veteran pilot who ignored the cautions of his younger officers who caused the wreck.

Veterans do not necessarily make better workers. People should be given advanced positions of responsibility based on their skills and desire, right?

Right?

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 03:30 PM
Being Tenured is Protection.

Tenured means your position can't be terminated without just cause.

Once it's terminated...the the hell are you going to do about it?

Answer me that?

Once again, my being tenured has nothing to do with unions. Non-union campuses have tenure too.

Even if it was, I don't consider tenure a protection and I would vote it out if I could. The original aim was good (protect the right of professors to engage in controversial research) but it effectively holds down wages.

It does have a union flavor to it in that I cannot be terminated even for rotten work performance. (Another reason I oppose it.)

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 04:09 PM
Once again, my being tenured has nothing to do with unions. Non-union campuses have tenure too.

Even if it was, I don't consider tenure a protection and I would vote it out if I could. The original aim was good (protect the right of professors to engage in controversial research) but it effectively holds down wages.

It does have a union flavor to it in that I cannot be terminated even for rotten work performance. (Another reason I oppose it.)

It doesn't really matter what you consider protection...it's a fact.


Academic tenure is primarily intended to guarantee the right to academic freedom: it protects teachers and researchers when they dissent from prevailing opinion, openly disagree with authorities of any sort, or spend time on unfashionable topics. Thus academic tenure is similar to the lifetime tenure that protects some judges from external pressure. Without job security, the scholarly community as a whole might favor "safe" lines of inquiry. The intent of tenure is to allow original ideas to be more likely to arise, by giving scholars the intellectual autonomy to investigate the problems and solutions about which they are most passionate, and to report their honest conclusions. In economies where higher education is provided by the private sector, tenure also has the effect of helping to ensure the integrity of the grading system. Absent tenure, professors could be pressured by administrators to issue higher grades for attracting and keeping a greater number of students.

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 04:14 PM
Look at the Canary Islands incident. It was the veteran pilot who ignored the cautions of his younger officers who caused the wreck.

Veterans do not necessarily make better workers. People should be given advanced positions of responsibility based on their skills and desire, right?

Right?

Bottomline....you don't know squat about Aviation. That and incidents like them are part of making the skies safer. Accidents are constantly being reviewed and adjustments to Pilot training are made to prevent accidents from re-occurring.

You using the Canary Island Accident is further proof of you reaching to argue your way to another internet award.

Get some help Son. Matter of fact....link some of your co-workers to this thread and have them sign up. I'd like to hear what they have to say about your theories.

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 04:21 PM
It doesn't really matter what you consider protection...it's a fact.

No, if tenure holds down my wages then it isn't a protection. And my tenure was not brought about by my union. I told you this once and I have to keep repeating it.


Bottomline....you don't know squat about Aviation. That and incidents like them are part of making the skies safer. Accidents are constantly being reviewed and adjustments to Pilot training are made to prevent accidents from re-occurring.

You using the Canary Island Accident is further proof of you reaching to argue your way to another internet award.

Get some help Son. Matter of fact....link some of your co-workers to this thread and have them sign up. I'd like to hear what they have to say about your theories.

I think it would be nearly impossible to find a more purposeful skirting of the issue than your post.

I asked: "People should be given advanced positions of responsibility based on their skills and desire, right?"

And you don't even bother answering. (Because you can't.)

Then, you try to use the Canary Island incident to show that veterans are somehow better pilots (even though the veteran caused the crash) and that somehow having two 747's collide is part of making the skies safer.


I'd like to hear what they have to say about your theories.

They can think whatever they want. I don't have to force my views on them. If they like unions and want to join, they can go for it. It's a free world, after all.

But you're not in favor of a free world, are you?

olevetonahill
5/23/2010, 04:45 PM
Bottomline....you don't know squat about Anything .

Fixed

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 05:14 PM
Fixed

Gee. Olevet is posting. I wonder if he is going to insult me.

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 05:15 PM
Go in Monday and demand you get paid your worth Leroid. Tell them you'll give up your tenure for the dough.

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 05:36 PM
Go in Monday and demand you get paid your worth Leroid. Tell them you'll give up your tenure for the dough.

And why would they grant my wish?

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 05:43 PM
And why would they grant my wish?

I don't know....maybe you aren't capable of making a decent enough argument to convince them?

I know you can't do it here.

On 2nd thought...you better just take the day off and work on your resume...surely there is someone out there that will pay for a gem like you.

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 05:46 PM
I don't know....maybe you aren't capable of making a decent enough argument to convince them?

I know you can't do it here.

On 2nd thought...you better just take the day off and work on your resume...surely there is someone out there that will pay for a gem like you.

What's your point?

GKeeper316
5/23/2010, 05:47 PM
No, if tenure holds down my wages then it isn't a protection.

tenure isnt supposed to be a financial protection. its an intellectual protection.

you're really a teacher?

where? i'll make sure not to ever live there and take the chance my children are ever influenced by your ineptitude.

olevetonahill
5/23/2010, 05:49 PM
tenure isnt supposed to be a financial protection. its an intellectual protection.

you're really a teacher?

where? i'll make sure not to ever live there and take the chance my children are ever influenced by your ineptitude.

Now this is a Post worthy of Green .:D

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 05:51 PM
tenure isnt supposed to be a financial protection. its an intellectual protection.

Yeah, you didn't see where I had already posted that?

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 05:52 PM
Now this is a Post worthy of Green .:D

Unfortunately it's wrong. I had already posted that tenure was designed to protect controversial research... so nayner nayner nayner.

olevetonahill
5/23/2010, 05:56 PM
tenure isnt supposed to be a financial protection. its an intellectual protection.

you're really a teacher?

where? i'll make sure not to ever live there and take the chance my children are ever influenced by your ineptitude.


Unfortunately it's wrong. I had already posted that tenure was designed to protect controversial research... so nayner nayner nayner.

No Limptard this is the Part I were agreeing with . See the Bolded part ?:rolleyes: :pop:

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 06:01 PM
What's your point?

That you will someday thank Vet and me for this intervention?

olevetonahill
5/23/2010, 06:11 PM
That you will someday thank Vet and me for this intervention?

ST Ima thinking Limptard deprived a Tow sack and some rocks of some Filler material :rolleyes:

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 06:23 PM
The Original Story of Leroid

aS_d0Ayjw4o

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 06:32 PM
I always thought he might have been dropped on his head as a child but I think it was probably more like this....

XZUBW-9JjOo

StoopTroup
5/23/2010, 07:11 PM
oznnUbYb01s&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 07:52 PM
You never told me if you were in favor of a free world.

bluedogok
5/23/2010, 08:06 PM
Why do you think the Government is in some kind of a conspiracy to Unionize these folks? You have no proof that they are.
Because the current administration is paying back the unions for "favors" that they performed during the election process. Not any different than those who helped the previous administration getting paid back. It happens regardless of party but someone is going to expect to be paid back for the large scale involvement in getting people elected whether it be corporations or unions.

The entertainment industry was instrumental in getting Clinton elected, during that period the large media companies were granted much more leeway to become bigger companies, pretty much Clear Channel grew at a faster rate than before or after the administration. Conversely the Clinton administration Justice Department went after Microsoft, much at the behest of avowed Clinton supporter Larry Ellison of Oracle who wants to be bigger than Microsoft. It was dismissed after Bush II became president, Gates became a Republican party supporter and Ellison was not so that "favor" to Oracle was ended.

As I see it the Obama administration is just doing what pretty much every administration before it has done. Not that it is right, but it's just how things are in Washington.

Leroy Lizard
5/23/2010, 08:08 PM
So much for change. :D

bluedogok
5/23/2010, 08:12 PM
So much for change. :D
Yep, the only change they were interested in was of the party in power.

Curly Bill
5/23/2010, 08:14 PM
the current administration is paying back the unions for "favors" that they performed during the election process.

As I see it the Obama administration is just doing what pretty much every administration before it has done. Not that it is right, but it's just how things are in Washington.


Ding, ding, ding...

olevetonahill
5/23/2010, 08:19 PM
Because the current administration is paying back the unions for "favors" that they performed during the election process. Not any different than those who helped the previous administration getting paid back. It happens regardless of party but someone is going to expect to be paid back for the large scale involvement in getting people elected whether it be corporations or unions.

The entertainment industry was instrumental in getting Clinton elected, during that period the large media companies were granted much more leeway to become bigger companies, pretty much Clear Channel grew at a faster rate than before or after the administration. Conversely the Clinton administration Justice Department went after Microsoft, much at the behest of avowed Clinton supporter Larry Ellison of Oracle who wants to be bigger than Microsoft. It was dismissed after Bush II became president, Gates became a Republican party supporter and Ellison was not so that "favor" to Oracle was ended.

As I see it the Obama administration is just doing what pretty much every administration before it has done. Not that it is right, but it's just how things are in Washington.


Ding, ding, ding...

Is that kinder like slick willie paid Monica back fer her favors ?
Ya know a Ceegar up her snatch ?:eek:

StoopTroup
5/24/2010, 04:59 PM
Because the current administration is paying back the unions for "favors" that they performed during the election process.

We all knew that was going to happen anyway. The Unions give the Dems huge money and support just the same as the Pubs got money from the private sector. It just not earth shattering news. I'm surprised it's took this long for it to happen.

When it didn't happen the first month of Obama's Administration I thought if was bizarre.

Condescending Sooner
5/24/2010, 05:00 PM
Vet, I don't know what Leroy did to you, but you are arguing every point he makes like you are some rabid liberal, which past postings contradict.

StoopTroup
5/24/2010, 05:13 PM
Vet, I don't know what Leroy did to you, but you are arguing every point he makes like you are some rabid liberal, which past postings contradict.

I'm arguing with Leriod because he's one of those folks that complain about Unions but as soon as he needs them...he hides behind their coattails.

If that makes me a liberal or seems to make me a liberal...that's your view and your welcome to it.

If you read through all of that you'll see where I stated I've worked in Management and in the Union for this Company for 23 years. I just have a unique perspective. I understand why folks who have run their own business and have had Union guys try to unionize their employees have a bone to pick with the Unions. In my case...I wanted to work on Airplanes and make better money in the Company I had 7 years of my life invested in. They have had many folks do what I have done and after they have gotten experience...they have jumped back to Management. The guys who have done this are some of the better guys to run our Company. Most of those guys also know that what the Union Folks get every Contract usually improves what benefits they get as the Company usually handles it this way.

This is just a reality for me.

Tulsa_Fireman
5/24/2010, 05:15 PM
Boobies.

StoopTroup
5/24/2010, 05:16 PM
Firemen are boob specialists.

Curly Bill
5/24/2010, 05:19 PM
I'm arguing with Leriod because he's one of those folks that complain about Unions but as soon as he needs them...he hides behind their coattails.
.

How so?

olevetonahill
5/24/2010, 05:24 PM
I argue with limptard cause I just plain dont like him :D

Curly Bill
5/24/2010, 05:25 PM
I argue with limptard cause I just plain dont like him :D

Which is fair enough. ;)

olevetonahill
5/24/2010, 05:32 PM
Which is fair enough. ;)

No matter what the subject Limp has an opinion of it and he strongly voices it. But his O is usually just contrary to what any one else thinks :D

Curly Bill
5/24/2010, 05:44 PM
No matter what the subject Limp has an opinion of it and he strongly voices it. But his O is usually just contrary to what any one else thinks :D

I wouldn't be shocked if he created a troll and argued with it.

Leroy Lizard
5/24/2010, 06:29 PM
No matter what the subject Limp has an opinion of it and he strongly voices it. But his O is usually just contrary to what any one else thinks :D

Agreeing is boring. Arguing is fun. That's why I argue.

I see a lot of things in here I agree with. But chiming in with a "Yeah, I agree" is rather pointless and dull.

SanJoaquinSooner
5/24/2010, 06:32 PM
Agreeing is boring. Arguing is fun. That's why I argue.

I see a lot of things in here I agree with. But chiming in with a "Yeah, I agree" is rather pointless and dull.

I couldn't agree more.

Leroy Lizard
5/24/2010, 06:36 PM
I'm arguing with Leriod because he's one of those folks that complain about Unions but as soon as he needs them...he hides behind their coattails.

I have never sought union protection.

But if I'm forced to pay their dues, then I absolutely would run to them when I need them. Might as well get my money's worth.



If you read through all of that you'll see where I stated I've worked in Management and in the Union for this Company for 23 years. I just have a unique perspective.

I don't see how your perspective is so unique. You sound like many unionizers.

And I have no problem with union supporters. I do have a problem with those that silently condone harassment and violence, and your earlier postings indicated as such.

As for olevet, the mere fact that it is me posting completely blinds him. (Others have this problem too, but olevet is probably the worst at it.) I could write "Go Sooners!" and he would neg me. As they say, "He's got issues."

olevetonahill
5/24/2010, 08:45 PM
I have never sought union protection.

But if I'm forced to pay their dues, then I absolutely would run to them when I need them. Might as well get my money's worth.



I don't see how your perspective is so unique. You sound like many unionizers.

And I have no problem with union supporters. I do have a problem with those that silently condone harassment and violence, and your earlier postings indicated as such.

As for olevet, the mere fact that it is me posting completely blinds him. (Others have this problem too, but olevet is probably the worst at it.) I could write "Go Sooners!" and he would neg me. As they say, "He's got issues."

Just with you :P :D

Leroy Lizard
5/24/2010, 09:12 PM
I couldn't agree more.

Heh. That was great.

StoopTroup
5/25/2010, 08:51 AM
I don't see how your perspective is so unique. You sound like many unionizers.

It's unique because I knew I was getting into a Union Shop and I knew there were going to be benefits from it. I didn't spend the rest of my days whining about it and crying about how the Unions have ruined this Country. They haven't IMO. At one point in my life I wouldn't have ever even considered a Union Job as I was in positions where Commission was how I got paid. If you didn't produce...you didn't get paid. The perspective I talk about is this...and as a Teacher in a Teacher's Union...you probably don't fall into this catagory Union wise. The reason Right to Work doesn't affect me is that we are under what is called "The Railway Labor Act". As long as this is in place...Right to Work will not affect Unions in this category. I'll leave it to you to read up on it. It was something I had no idea existed and only later discovered the impact it has on Transportation in the U.S. Your situation is much different than mine and you base your entire problem with Unions on your personal experience. I guess I do to but I also realize that "The Railway Labor Act" came about for a reason. It might not be a perfect solution for every situation but again...what is...it's not a perfect World Leroid. :D

You can continue to throw out stuff like "You sound like many Unionizers" but you end up getting schooled from me every time you do IMO.

I don't care for every Union work rule that affects me but I have learned to live with the good and the bad. You sit there whining about how Unions are ruining our Country because they blacklist places you like to eat at. I realize that the Union I pay dues to is necessary for our Country to have to a decent and safe Mass Transportation System. That's a unique perspective in my book.



And I have no problem with union supporters. I do have a problem with those that silently condone harassment and violence, and your earlier postings indicated as such.

But are you silent about the reasons you dislike your Union? What are you actively doing about it? Have you run for a Union Position and tried to rally your other Brothers and Sisters together to get involved and get rid of the blacklisting that you are so disgusted with? Why don't you and the others do what those folks in that Community did and push for a silent ballot and oust that Union of yours? I'd say it's because you'd rather just bitch and any action you might take would endanger your position and we couldn't have that...as you pay Union Dues that comes in handy if they ever tried to fire you or make it difficult on you. Your Employer probably would tell you to STFU is my guess as they have an agenda as well and don't want someone like you upsetting the apple cart.

Go ahead and try to paint any picture you want and that without a Union in place at your job...you wouldn't be a part of what we all knows goes on with folks like you...silent grapevine harassing of people who don't share your views and silent joy as you watch them get run off the job because you "Just didn't care for them". That's one thing I've noticed happened in every job I've ever had.

Currently one of the issues I think has changed the American Workplace is that many folks Union or Non-Union have done is create this politically correct workplace where everyone is entitled to say whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else's feelings.

This is quickly becoming why I think workplace violence continues to escalate. It was put in place to curtail it but it has had an opposite effect IMO. People need to learn to agree to disagree and go on their way...but what I see going on is an environment of silent hatred that builds what can only be described as unhealthy rage IMO. It's making sure that rage doesn't happen in the workplace that all of us sit around now looking to find the first symptoms of so when someone goes off the deep end we can do an interview saying "We all knew this was coming". It's sickening IMO....we need to get back to using the old tried and true method of the "Bitch Slap" IMO. Remember dunking tanks? Auctioning off tries to put a pie in the Bosses face? Good times.

I bet we could pay for an entire season of tailgating with a Leroid sitting in a dunk tank next to the port-a-john.