AZ votes to raise state sales tax

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Special election. Those receiving govt paychecks highly motivated to vote, in this special election, that had that as the only item on the ballot. It passed in a landslide.

[MrJimBeam]

Who know who this will hurt the most?????


Mexicans.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

And thusly, the people have spoken.

Because it's against your personal beliefs, does that somehow make the vote illegitimate?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

And thusly, the people have spoken.

Because it's against your personal beliefs, does that somehow make the vote illegitimate?There will be govt. expansion and raises, in this sorry economy. The election is, of course, legitimate, but typically constituted in this way.( special election, only item on ballot, and lots of deception in the adverising)

[Okla-homey]

I would support a 10% federal sales tax on everything a person buys in exchange for the complete repeal of the federal income tax.

That way, everyone gets to play: Crooks; drug king pins; wealthy people who pay little or no income tax because they've got it all sheltered; illegal aliens, etc., and the approximately 50% of the US population who pay no income tax at all.

Of course, its unlikely because the home building industry, realtors, the accountants, the tax Bar, and HR Block would scream bloody murder.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

What does a consumption tax discourage?

[JohnnyMack]

What does a consumption tax discourage?

Me being "creative" on my income tax?

[SoonerNate]

I would support a 10% federal sales tax on everything a person buys in exchange for the complete repeal of the federal income tax.

That way, everyone gets to play: Crooks; drug king pins; wealthy people who pay little or no income tax because they've got it all sheltered; illegal aliens, etc., and the approximately 50% of the US population who pay no income tax at all.

Of course, its unlikely because the home building industry, realtors, the accountants, the tax Bar, and HR Block would scream bloody murder.

I'm an accountant in favor of a flat tax. There's plenty of work for me without taxes.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Me being "creative" on my income tax?What income tax? I thought we were talking consumption INSTEAD of income.(IOW, you didn't answer the Q, of course)

[JohnnyMack]

What income tax? I thought we were talking consumption INSTEAD of income.(IOW, you didn't answer the Q, of course)

My synapses just fire a little quicker than yours do. It's not really my fault you can't keep up with my leaps.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I'm an accountant in favor of a flat tax. There's plenty of work for me without taxes.Makes sense to me, too. Steve Forbes was a big proponent back in the '90's, when he ran for pres. and won the OK primary, I believe. It DOESN'T discourage consumption.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

My synapses just fire a little quicker than yours do. It's not really my fault you can't keep up with my leaps.OK, if that's what you want to call what you did.

[tommieharris91]

That way, everyone gets to play: Crooks; drug king pins; wealthy people who pay little or no income tax because they've got it all sheltered; illegal aliens, etc.,

Every one of these people are guilty of tax evasion.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Is that kinda like dope being illegal, therefore let's make dope legal?

[tommieharris91]

Is that kinda like dope being illegal, therefore let's make dope legal?

Nope. It means if you know one of these people, call your friendly neighborhood IRS agent. He'd love to hear from ya!

[SoonerNate]

Makes sense to me, too. Steve Forbes was a big proponent back in the '90's, when he ran for pres. and won the OK primary, I believe. It DOESN'T discourage consumption.

Yeah, but if you take away tax incentives you take away the powers that be in DC so I don't ever expect it to see the light of day unfortunately.

[GottaHavePride]

Man, it's like connect the dots.

Consumption tax -> no income tax -> can no longer be "creative" when filing income tax

MAN, that was hard to follow.

Now seriously, I'd be in favor of a flat consumption tax (or sales tax, whatever you want to call it). But states already have an average sales tax of 5 1/3 %, and some municipalities stack more on top of that. If you go to a consistent federal sales tax, it would have to be a base rate, with the other taxes piled on top, meaning you'd wind up with tax rates in some places of nearly 25%.

ALSO - changing to that sort of tax is useless unless you also pass two other laws:

1) Any and all internet sales are taxed according to the state in which the purchaser is resident.

2) Add a similar federal tax to the shipping fees associated with any commercial purchase. (i.e. shipping a box of Christmas presents to grandkids? Not taxed. Buying $1,500 of cookware online to dodge the sales tax? You pay a tax on shipping.)


With those two laws you make sure you don't lose any revenue to people buying online AND you encourage local purchasing, which will help stabilize local economies.

[GottaHavePride]

OH, and of course you'll see a big fight in that scenario to exempt certain classes of purchases (food, prescription drugs, clothing) in order to assist low-income families and the fixed-income elderly. But then you face another ridiculous battle. Exempting shoes for poverty-line families from the tax? Sure, I can see that. But how do you exempt stuff like that without also exempting a rich guy's $1,500 Armani suit? (which is clearly a luxury item and SHOULD be taxed)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Consumption tax advocates just must not want to deal with the chilling effect is has on the economy. None of the advocates here want to discuss that problem...

Oh well, AZ has a shiny new tax imposed upon its sluggish economy. Hoorah!

[GottaHavePride]

Consumption tax advocates just must not want to deal with the chilling effect is has on the economy. None of the advocates here want to discuss that problem...

Oh well, AZ has a shiny new tax imposed upon its sluggish economy. Hoorah!

I'm not so sure it would be such a big chill. Yes, the taxes you pay on purchases jump, but people would also be looking at their monthly budget and notice a lot more money coming to them each month once income tax withholding goes away. I'd call that very little net change, except for those people who have been weaseling out of paying income tax to this point.

[yermom]

it would take a bit to get over the sticker shock

i'm not sure how to handle the secondary market either

imagine used items on eBay selling for more than retail

[Tulsa_Fireman]

In RE: a "fair tax" or national sales tax, you have variable governmental income based at that point ENTIRELY on consumer spending as opposed to that income being based on the creation and preservation of jobs.

Look at the fluctuations of sales tax revenues at the local and state levels, less so the state because of ad valorem dollars. Now bench your entire federal revenue source on that very thing. It's a rattlesnake. To drive consumer spending even harder to generate revenue, we flush ourselves even further down the Chinese toilet for cheap, marketable goods that americans can spend their money on.

Flat tax? NOW you're talking. Set percentage of income, end of discussion. Still based on employment, still based in the productivity of the american workforce as opposed to the ability to buy certified lead painted crap from overseas, and as stable and predictable as it can be given unemployment and available workforce.

The theory that an increase in real income by removal of income tax with a transition to sales tax will equate spending and maintain the government at the federal level is a farce. With more disposable income brings more spending. More spending for real goods will eventually equate to increased prices. With which, given time, will result in a wash of the actual value of what you get for your dollar, only this time it's with the burden of a grossly constricting massive sales tax percentage.

[Leroy Lizard]

Now seriously, I'd be in favor of a flat consumption tax (or sales tax, whatever you want to call it). But states already have an average sales tax of 5 1/3 %, and some municipalities stack more on top of that. If you go to a consistent federal sales tax, it would have to be a base rate, with the other taxes piled on top, meaning you'd wind up with tax rates in some places of nearly 25%.

As opposed to the feds taking 30% of all the money you make before you can spend it?

[Leroy Lizard]

Flat tax? NOW you're talking. Set percentage of income, end of discussion.

Gross or net? (I assume net, but want to be sure.)

[Veritas]

This thread is too complicated for me to get. Can someone just tell me if AZ is still our Miss Conservative USA winner or did we just find out she's done some stripping in the past?

[yermom]

she won on a special ballot, so the results are suspect

or something

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

She's stripped. Her crown was taxed away,, y'know "For the Children" and "to insure the safety net".

[85Sooner]

A flat tax will not work because it is still based on "income". Income can be defined on too many ways. The answer is the Fair tax. That fits every detail of what needs to be instituted.

[Leroy Lizard]

A flat tax will not work because it is still based on "income". Income can be defined on too many ways. The answer is the Fair tax. That fits every detail of what needs to be instituted.

I don't go to the fair, so I'm game.

[Stitch Face]

Why do you hate bearded ladies?

[Leroy Lizard]

Come to think of it, yeah.

[badger]

There are some states with really low or non-existent sales tax, like Wisconsin (5 percent-ish) and Delaware (no sales tax). They make up for it with property and income taxes, definitely.

To each state, their own --- but don't be surprised when consumers border-jump if they don't like the tax rates.

[Frozen Sooner]

There are some states with really low or non-existent sales tax, like Wisconsin (5 percent-ish) and Delaware (no sales tax). They make up for it with property and income taxes, definitely.

To each state, their own --- but don't be surprised when consumers border-jump if they don't like the tax rates.

Alaska has no state sales, income, or property tax. Oil is cool.

[Frozen Sooner]

Gross or net? (I assume net, but want to be sure.)

:gary:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

:gary:no shiite, there!