USC at odds with NCAA over proposed sanctions

[SoCal]

From the Arizona State board...http://www.cactusranch.com/devils/sd...rd/123550.html

I have it on very good authority that USC has been going back and forth with the NCAA about the proposed sanctions on the athletic program. The NCAA has come back twice in recent weeks and told USC that it was ready to levy sanctions, but each time SC has cried foul and used their legal team to push back on the NCAA. He said that they have even challenged the NCAA's ability to levy certain sanctions, and they have let the NCAA know that they are prepared for a landcape-changing legal battle if the sanctions are too harsh. In other words, SC has stopped playing nice and is now threatening a very lengthy and costly legal battle that would challenge the NCAA's jurisdiction like never before. He mentioned that other schools around the country are pushing the NCAA to stand its ground. He thinks USC is trying to bluff the NCAA into something lighter while "negotiations" are still private. He said that USC would probably reverse course if and when this becomes a public process (like after sanctions are announced). He says it is truly unprecendented for the NCAA to have a school threatening to challenge its role. He said that legal bills for USC are well north of $2 million already, and that SC has no shortage of $ to fight. What will stop USC is the bad press if they try to fight the NCAA and come off looking like spoiled cheaters. Sorry if this is rambling - I am typing as I recall our conversation today.

USC feels they have been successful to a certain degree already. They have already apparently persuaded the NCAA to ratchet down the sanctions on the football program to a certain extent, but USC is not satisfied yet and is still working the NCAA. There is regular dialogue between the NCAA and USC, and most of the dialogue is initiated by USC. He said if 2 days go by without any word from the NCAA, the USC legal team is calling them. The USC legal team feels it can create a bit of a niche in bullying the NCAA, and they think that any success they have this time around can be used to get other universities to hire them - no joke. It's an entrepreneurial opportunity! That's really the way they have been talking.

I don't make this stuff up. I have a business associate who is a real estate tycoon, and he is one of SC's largest boosters - let's leave it at that.
Norman Michaels

[Jack T.]

On the one hand, it really annoys me that USC gets to bargain their sanctions.

On the other hand, it'd be nice to see a legal ruling to take the NCAA down a notch or two.

[soonerloyal]

Of course, they have been successful so far - is there ANY other school that could pull this BS and get away with it? Absolutely NOT.

While I agree that the NCAA needs to be challenged and taken down several notches - the fact that it's USC trying to do it, believing they are above playing by anyone's rules (other than their own), well, that just chaps my azz considerably. And I doubt I'm alone.

If the NCAA allows USC to dictate this whole process any more than they already have - especially in terms of how the school and program are punished - I hope there is a sh*tstorm and uprising by other schools the likes of which the NCAA has never seen...and will regret for the rest of its existence.

This whole sham of a real "investigation" has been a joke from the beginning. Either USC has the anchor dropped on its head, or the NCAA needs to be punished hard itself. Shame on both parties.

[Williesan]

Hmmm... let me get this straight: USC is trying to lessen the sanctions by threatening legal action?

The last time we saw legal action by a school vs. the NCAA, the NCAA proceeded to go on a decade-long witch hunt. (We all know how that ened up.)

I say let them "fight on." With Kiffin and Orgeron back in the saddle there and Mike "Win at All Costs" Garrett running the ranch, it will be just a matter of time before they **really** eff things up for themselves. And if the NCAA lets them off the hook for these egregious actions, then the NCAA can kiss any sort of compliance by anyone goodbye because they have now set the precedent: your boosters can do whatever they want and we won't do squat.:pop:

Also: if USC is a voluntary member of the NCAA, don't they have to comply with the rules set forth by the NCAA? (See Shawnee HS v. OSSAA a couple of years back... I'll defer to the legal types here to discuss.)

Williesan

[sooner518]

is there any way for them to both lose?

[soonerloyal]

^^THIS^^.

[SunnySooner]

Cheaters cheating the process of being punished for cheating.:mad:

Ugh, SUC v. NCAA is like SUC v. whorns. A plague on all their houses.

[Leroy Lizard]

Hmmm... let me get this straight: USC is trying to lessen the sanctions by threatening legal action?

The last time we saw legal action by a school vs. the NCAA, the NCAA proceeded to go on a decade-long witch hunt. (We all know how that ened up.)

True, but the situations were much different. We fought in court over tv rights for all of college football. USC is fighting (allegedly) sanctions without using the normal appeals process. In other words, they are trying to break down the entire rules process...

... but only for themselves!

They're not trying to create a better landscape for college football. They're just trying to weasel out of the sanctions that every other team in college football would have accepted or appealed.

And those of you who think it would be great to see the NCAA "taken down a notch" don't understand what is happening. The NCAA is not going to change their manner towards other schools, just USC. Poor ole TCU or Indiana or Alabama Tech are going to be no better off for it. In fact, the NCAA could ratchet up their intolerance to prove they are still viable.

This all assumes the story is true. I'm not sure it is.


One more thing: The NCAA should never negotiate sanctions. You heard the evidence; you lay out the sanctions. If the school gets upset, they can appeal. That's the way it should be.

[Leroy Lizard]

The USC legal team feels it can create a bit of a niche in bullying the NCAA, and they think that any success they have this time around can be used to get other universities to hire them - no joke.

I hate to inform USC that, unlike what they think, they are not God's gift to the legal profession and that other universities have lawyers too.

[Wishboned]

Why if USC manages to do that it would damage the NCAA's credi..haha...credi..haha...credibility...hahahaha hahaha

Sorry, I couldn't say that with a straight face.

[Crucifax Autumn]

**** SUC and the National Communists Against Athletes!

[Flagstaffsooner]

From an aSu board.
I have it on very good authority :rolleyes:

[XingTheRubicon]

We should have threatened legal action back in '89.


They would have literally burned OU to the ground.

[badger]

To be fair to SC guys, we, too, protested the NCAA's finding against us in the Bomar/Quinn fiasco. We had our 2005 wins vacated (even though we didn't have too many of them that season) initially, only to have Boren et al get them reinstated later.

Perhaps that is what SC is up to. I am not sure.

[Collier11]

We are either about to see that usc isnt as relevant as they seem to think or that the ncaa is as spineless as we think...Hmmm?

[Collier11]

To be fair to SC guys, we, too, protested the NCAA's finding against us in the Bomar/Quinn fiasco. We had our 2005 wins vacated (even though we didn't have too many of them that season) initially, only to have Boren et al get them reinstated later.

Perhaps that is what SC is up to. I am not sure.

We did it thru a formal protest with the infractions committee after our infractions were announced, we didnt try and secretly bully them into ruling in our favor. Apples and Oranges

[SunnySooner]

We did it thru a formal protest with the infractions committee after our infractions were announced, we didnt try and secretly bully them into ruling in our favor. Apples and Oranges

Yep. And why would we want to be fair to SUC? They deserve no such consideration.;)

[fadada1]

this is like tiger woods getting his wife to pay HIM for diddling half the waitresses in the USA. usc f-ed up... they know it... we know it... pigmies in the amazon know it. usc just doesn't want to accept it. i hope they get clobbered.

[soonerloyal]

We did it thru a formal protest with the infractions committee after our infractions were self-announced, we didnt try and secretly bully them into ruling in our favor. Apples and Oranges


(slightly fixed)


Yup.

[Jdog]

will their recruits leave?

[TahoeSOONER]

They both can sUc it.

[RedstickSooner]

This entire process makes me livid. The NCAA needs to do a couple of things here if they want to salvage any shred of respectability:

1) Publish a formal schedule of penalties for various dollar value infractions. Any improper benefits to players of tangible value would have a clear penalty or range of penalties (to be affected by how egregious/deliberate the violation was).

2) And, of course, publish another schedule of penalties for "intangible" benefits -- like academic favors, sexual favors, etc. This could actually be kinda fun to quantify, and would (of course) remain modified by the egregious/deliberate part.

3) Put in a "compound interest" facet to penalties to severely punish schools for slow-moving investigations. Sure, sometimes it would be unfair, but the basic idea would be to goad schools into doing what they *should* already be doing: Try to uncover & resolve violations as fast as possible. If Suc were facing, say, doubled or tripled penalties for fighting the process for so many years, maybe they wouldn't have fought it from the get-go.

4) Eliminate all communications between whatever branch of the NCAA determines sanctions and the affected school. Receiving your penalties should be the most impersonal thing in the world: And if you don't like 'em, you should have to take it up with an appeals board. You sure as hell shouldn't be able to threaten and cajole, in secret, the NCAA -- and actually gain advantage from those threats.

I mean, this crud is self-evident. If you reward bad behavior, you'll see more bad behavior. How in the world could the NCAA not understand such a simple, fundamental truth?

[RedstickSooner]

Okay, one more thing. What truly enrages me about the suc situation is that absolutely *nobody* responsible for this fiasco is going to be punished. Head coach - gone. Players in the program at that time -- hell, approaching NFL retirement age.

Punishing the program now is like coming home to find your dog took a shiite on the floor, so you put him in the truck, drive around with the window down for a while so he can stick his face out and bark at things, maybe stop somewhere for burgers (you share the fries with him, of course), join the buddies for a quick hunting trip (the dog never does bring anything home, but he loves barking his head off at anything you try to shoot), pack him back up in the truck, drive home, and when you get to your driveway punching the heck out him in the nose while yelling, "Don't you take a dump on my damned floor, you motherfudger!"

Oh, and you probably should've cleaned that up before you left. It's pretty gnarly by now.

[Sooner-N-KS]

On the one hand, it really annoys me that USC gets to bargain their sanctions.

On the other hand, it'd be nice to see a legal ruling to take the NCAA down a notch or two.

The NCAA needs to be taken down a notch or two........but not here. This is exactly what they are in place for. This is the fight they need to step up to and say this is our turf, and you're going down.

Where they need to lighten up is in cases like Balogun.....maybe even Dez Bryant. They need to have compassion and understanding at times when dealing with individual players that didn't necessarily cheat. But they need to hammer cheaters like Bush and Bomar.

[Sooner-N-KS]

Okay, one more thing. What truly enrages me about the suc situation is that absolutely *nobody* responsible for this fiasco is going to be punished. Head coach - gone. Players in the program at that time -- hell, approaching NFL retirement age.

Punishing the program now is like coming home to find your dog took a shiite on the floor, so you put him in the truck, drive around with the window down for a while so he can stick his face out and bark at things, maybe stop somewhere for burgers (you share the fries with him, of course), join the buddies for a quick hunting trip (the dog never does bring anything home, but he loves barking his head off at anything you try to shoot), pack him back up in the truck, drive home, and when you get to your driveway punching the heck out him in the nose while yelling, "Don't you take a dump on my damned floor, you motherfudger!"

Oh, and you probably should've cleaned that up before you left. It's pretty gnarly by now.

No, the school administration was completely involved and in control. Before Bush was drafted to the NFL the NCAA was asking USC to release information. USC's response......"No, thank you."

USC delayed and covered up. They are not required by law to release the information because they are a private school and not subject to freedom of information. They started with an unfair advantage, and they tried to use it. With USC and Bush cooperation this would have been over long ago.

The people that made the decisions to not cooperate are still running USC. These are the same people now trying to use legal intimidation. The delay is caused by USC, not the NCAA.

Burn the Condoms!

[badger]

Yep. And why would we want to be fair to SUC? They deserve no such consideration.;)

I'm just sayin' what others are likely thinking. OU does not exactly have a clear history with NCAA rules. To our credit, we've been a lot more forthcoming and working toward compliance than necessary (have you viewed one of the many signs up around Owen Field reminding you not to give athletes birthday cards?).

[MiccoMacey]

What will stop USC is the bad press if they try to fight the NCAA and come off looking like spoiled cheaters.

This post is useless without pictures.

:D

[diegosooner]

it's taking so long, you'd think USC is on death row in California.

[Dan Thompson]

I think more people die on death row of old age than execution.

[stoopified]

No, the school administration was completely involved and in control. Before Bush was drafted to the NFL the NCAA was asking USC to release information. USC's response......"No, thank you."

USC delayed and covered up. They are not required by law to release the information because they are a private school and not subject to freedom of information. They started with an unfair advantage, and they tried to use it. With USC and Bush cooperation this would have been over long ago.

The people that made the decisions to not cooperate are still running USC. These are the same people now trying to use legal intimidation. The delay is caused by USC, not the NCAA.

Burn the Condoms!What infurriates me is that FAILURE TO COOPERATE is supposed to be an NCAA volation in and of itself.The Condomns should go down in flames for that alone.

[soonerboy_odanorth]

Of course, they have been successful so far - is there ANY other school that could pull this BS and get away with it? Absolutely... Notre Dame!


Fixed.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

USC can stick it along with the NCAA