Would like your opinions...

[MiccoMacey]

...please be nice. :)

For those that want USC to be punished because one of their star players was doing something illegal behind the coaching staff's back, what's the dfference as you see it between that and two of OU's players doing something illegal behind our coaching staff's back?

Because in all honesty, unless I believe Pete Carroll and/or his staff actually knew Bush was receiving these improper benefits, it seems extremely similar to Bomar and Quinn's receiving extra benefits. The money amount is obviously different, but the cheating was the same.

Thoughts?

[Breadburner]

I think the house Bush's family was living in would be hard to miss by the coaching staff.....

[olevetonahill]

KInda what Bread said in a way .
Ya Know PC was in Bushs Folks home while recruiting him. Then after he signs and becomes somewhat of a star His folks Move in to a Dayum fine shack .
Kinda hard to NOT see that
where as Bomar and JD could very easily keep a few 100 at a time hidden
Plus it didnt go on for almost 3 seasons here. Not to mention the leinhart roomate dealio or some of the other crap .


Personally im to the point i dont really give a shat what happens to em.

As long as they are exposed as the Frauds they are .

[jaux]

Big difference. SC stalled long enough for this to happen. NCAA will have no confirmation of wrong doing.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-04-21/bush-settles-lake-wont-give-deposition

[Wishboned]

OU self reported as soon as Stoops found out.

USC stalled...and stalled...and stalled...

They fought the NCAA every step of the way.

[yermom]

ban PC from coaching college football for like 10 years and put an asterisk by the Heisman and the MNC and move on (can't do much about the AP one in 2003)

it seems silly to punish the new staff and players. the AD should be on some thin ice though

[Mad Dog Madsen]

They're also investigating on OJ Mayo. This is not just about the football team. I don't see how you can even compare this situation to the one we had in 2005.

[badger]

I pretty much agree with what everyone else already said - OU was very open about what transpired and took action immediately. Meanwhile, USC never kicked Reggie off the team (he left for the draft after his junior year) and didn't cooperate fully with the NCAA.

OU self-imposed sanctions on its football team. SC decided to just punish the basketball team.

Also, I think there's a big difference between accepting a few thousand dollars from a dealership for unworked hours and accepting a big arse house from a sports agency for future professional representation.

Also, to Bomar and Quinn's credit, they worked to pay back what they wrongfully took and donated the money to charity. Reggie Bush, meanwhile, can't even keep his word on giving scholarships to kids from his high school despite all his pro (and semi-pro, lol) money.

Link (http://secondstringfullback.wordpress.com/2010/02/06/hey-reggie-bush-what-ya-gonna-do-what-ya-gonna-do-make-our-dreams-come-true/)

So while it might seem like we're a tad hypocritical here, please remember, lurking poke, whorn and other weird opposing fans, that we were already punished. We already turned ourselves in, the NCAA already handed down their punishment and the athletes were kicked off the team and forced to pay back what they took to become eligible again.

What, other than punishing their awful non-title contending basketball program, has USC and its athletes done to pay for their wrong doings?

[goingoneight]

What Bomar and Quinn got busted for happens sporadically all across the country. You read about it all the time. In fact, there was just recently a kid somewhere who shortly after signing day was dumb enough to post pics of the cash he got from a booster and got ousted just like Bomar and Quinn did. These are kids who like many others in this world, would take a little extra cash if it was available... even if it bent or broke the rules to do so.

I'm not an expert on the USC case, but a 3/4 million dolar home seems to me like something that "helped" USC sign Reggie Bush... who in time became one of the best players of the decade.

There is no way whatsoever even the biggest hater can say with a straight face that the following conversation took place:

Coach: hey, there... Mr. Hotshot Prep QB. Why, if you come on down to our place, we'll give you $115 bucks a week (a little quick math)... but you'll have to keep your nose clean. If we get busted... you're gonna be a scapegoat and you'll lose your scholarship, be kicked off the team and your reputation scarred for life. Thousands of people will hate YOU. Not us... YOU. You will henceforth be known as "the idiot" should this little deal come to light.

When both guys were revealed to have knowingly committed a serious NCAA no-no... it was an easy choice to kick them off the team. It's not required nor necessary to do so. See: Troy Smith. So Troy got caught with what... $500? That's only how much he got caught with. Same could be said for anyone "caught."

Haters want to believe that we pulled a major CYA back in Fall of 2006... but truthfully speaking... Bomar could have been suspended and could very well have been the guy to light up the Owen Field scoreboard in 2008 to a Heisman Trophy just like Smith did at tOSU.

Now, back on original track... again, I'm no USC case expert... but I'm sure anyone with a brain can see the difference between two immature kids staying clocked in... supposed to be washing cars at a dealership... but really just hanging out with their NBA cheerleader girlfriend or partying. Even the biggest hater knows what college kids would do in certain circumstances. Bush and SC had people testify against them. We had a "rat" at Big Red Sports and Imports who really saved our bacon when you think about it. Said "rat" was too chicken shat to testify anything more than he/she could document... which to most dealerships was nothing more than disappearing petty cash.

I'm not saying any of it is right... I'm simply stating they're different cases. If a kid sneaks into my garage and takes a beer out of the fridge... it's wrong. If he steals my car... they're both stealing... but there's clearly a difference. Not to draw direct monetary comparison... but you get the picture... they ARE different cases. We'll just see what the most corrupt farce of an organization in America "found out" and what they're going to do about it.

Remember... money talks. Successful college football makes plenty of it. Major markets make even more of it.

I wouldn't be shocked at all to see a similar punishment to OU's. Scholly limits and probation. "Vacated wins" can be attained through appeals.

[TexasLidig8r]

OU self reported as soon as Stoops found out.

.

Well.. yes and no.

In March and April of that year, the OU Compliance Department investigated Big Red Imports regarding the Adrian Peterson, used Lexus situation. The Compliance Department found no NCAA violations and reported such.

Now.. with approximately 20 football players working at Big Red, wouldn't it have been prudent to investigate all athletes and confirm that no improper benefits were being given. This is not a situation where a random employer employs 1 or 2 student athletes. It's an employer to whom athletes were referred by persons in the OU athletic department. So, the question is, wouldn't a reasonably prudent compliance department, in order to assure that nothing under the table was going on, have conducted a thorough investigation of all athletes at Big Red, especially since problems with another car dealership had resulted in probation on a prior occasion?

The Compliance Department apparently did not conduct any such investigation. Finally, at the end of July, both OU and the NCAA enforcement division received the infamous anonymous email which "ratted out" Bomar and Quinn. With OU knowing the NCAA had been informed of this situation from the start, the school had no choice but to investigate.

As for USC, they apparently did not cooperate. That should result in far greater sanctions than if they had been very open.

[fwsooner22]

At ** they don't have to investigate anything. They just head down to the drunk tank every weekend and find out which athletes have DWI cases that need to be referred to high profile Austin lawyers. No problem there.

By the way, nobody in Austin needs to fake having a job to get "carrying around" money. There's plenty to go around.

[goingoneight]

True... but remember we're not having this conversation if Bomar and Quinn were never reported. If the truth never saw the light of day, all the woulda-coulda-shouldas are moot point. The AD 97 Lexus deal is probably nothing more than the Billy Pittman deal (I think that was the kid with a booster's ride, I apologize if I'm wrong). Odds are they were just kinda put on their honor (ignorantly, yes) after "loaning" AD the used car. I can certainly understand that as a person of business who personally has been struck but not bitten before by several. Plenty of times I remember meeting with someone to resolve a problem, talking it out and having lunch afterward. Point is I can see BRSI kissing up to Stoops/Castiglione/whoever when they got caught with their pants down, and before the Bomar/Quinn thing ever came to light... the folks at OU, NCAA and BRSI just kinda saying "no biggie, just don't let it happen again."

Your point, should we have investigated further into the long list of athletes employed there? In light of Bomargate, yes. But how many times in the business world do you know everything you need to know without something biting you in the *** to teach you? Sometimes it's right up under your nose... sometimes it's ignored, whether accidentally or intentionally.

Agreed on one thing overall... we cooperated, SC did not. We'll see if the NCAA sees it any different, and what all they uncovered.

As for the "rat" comment... I'm not angry at the "rat" as a fan. I know if some arrogant little snot was working for me and getting anything under the table, I'd be pissed off enough to execute a little karma, myself. And believe me, Bomar and Quinn weren't exactly well-liked individuals. I don't think the payroll person (AKA "rat") was being aggy so much as I think they probably just had enough and decided to let the higher ups handle it.

[Collier11]

Well.. yes and no.

In March and April of that year, the OU Compliance Department investigated Big Red Imports regarding the Adrian Peterson, used Lexus situation. The Compliance Department found no NCAA violations and reported such.

Now.. with approximately 20 football players working at Big Red, wouldn't it have been prudent to investigate all athletes and confirm that no improper benefits were being given. This is not a situation where a random employer employs 1 or 2 student athletes. It's an employer to whom athletes were referred by persons in the OU athletic department. So, the question is, wouldn't a reasonably prudent compliance department, in order to assure that nothing under the table was going on, have conducted a thorough investigation of all athletes at Big Red, especially since problems with another car dealership had resulted in probation on a prior occasion?

The Compliance Department apparently did not conduct any such investigation. Finally, at the end of July, both OU and the NCAA enforcement division received the infamous anonymous email which "ratted out" Bomar and Quinn. With OU knowing the NCAA had been informed of this situation from the start, the school had no choice but to investigate.

As for USC, they apparently did not cooperate. That should result in far greater sanctions than if they had been very open.

This is why the compliance dept was completely re-organized

[Jacie]

The home for his parents is just the charge that the NCAA had a chance of making a case out of.

Petey and his boys were being treated like celebrities and he didn't care about or choose to see what was happening. Agents were allowed on the sidelines and in the lockerroom, giving them access to the players during this time. One can only speculate but it would be a leap of faith to think there were absolutely no inducements or exchange of something between them, else why be there at all?

[soonersam]

OU self reported as soon as Stoops found out.

USC stalled...and stalled...and stalled...

They fought the NCAA every step of the way.

exactly!!

[Soonerfan88]

First, remember that the NCAA is not a courtroom and does not have to have irrefutable truth before assigning guilt and sentencing.

IIRC, OU's compliance dept collected the correct paperwork and everything checked out - on paper. They just didn't do any follow-up to verify what was written on the paperwork actually happened, which is what their own rules required. That is why OU was smacked for "should have known" and the department was reorganized and reassigned.

As for USC, Bush had a tricked out car that was featured in a magazine, his parents were flying to most if not all away games, and he supposedly had every electronic toy you could ask for yet there was no reasonable explanation for who paid for it. Also, these guys were allowed in the USC locker room and had access to the players. Not sure what OU's policy is, but knowing the NCAA rules, I would definitely be doing a check on who was allowed that kind of pass if I were a coach/AD. Testimony by Lake & Michaels state that at least one asst coach did know what was going on and never made any effort to stop it. This is more than enough for most to believe USC definitely falls into the "should have known" category. Added to the other issues with the basketball program and even going back to the Leinart apartment issue, I can easily see a case made for Lack of Institutional Control.

[badger]

I think this is part of the reason Lane Kiffiekins is now closing practices to most everyone. Carroll used to let anyone show up, but not anymore.

With every coaching change, it's like they're going for cardinal opposites of the previous regime, y'know?

At KU, they replaced evil hater-of-all Mark Mangino with kind, playa-lova Turner Gill. At SC, they replaced anything-goes-and-I'm-your-cheerleader Pete Carroll with Shush-shush-no-violations-to-be-seen-here Lane Kiffin. At Texas Tech, they replaced quirky stepchild weirdo Mike Leach with quirky stepchild weirdo Tommy Tuberville.

...well, Tech's just weird. :D

[texaspokieokie]

not everyone saw the house that Bush's family lived in; it was down near san diego.

[Collier11]

everyone knew about it

[Leroyt]

MM, the one thing I would say is that just because you don't (or may not) believe that Petey knew what was going on doesn't mean you shouldn't believe it. Top coaches are absolutely CEOs of big corporations, and at their salaries, fair or not (I say fair), they are responsible. When it comes to top level accountability, there's no such thing as "behind your back".
I'm of the opinion that self-imposed sanctions are lame and only serve to further emasculate the eunuch that is the ncaa.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I pretty much agree with what everyone else already said - OU was very open about what transpired and took action immediately. Meanwhile, USC never kicked Reggie off the team (he left for the draft after his junior year) and didn't cooperate fully with the NCAA.

OU self-imposed sanctions on its football team. SC decided to just punish the basketball team.

Also, I think there's a big difference between accepting a few thousand dollars from a dealership for unworked hours and accepting a big arse house from a sports agency for future professional representation.

Also, to Bomar and Quinn's credit, they worked to pay back what they wrongfully took and donated the money to charity. Reggie Bush, meanwhile, can't even keep his word on giving scholarships to kids from his high school despite all his pro (and semi-pro, lol) money.

Link (http://secondstringfullback.wordpress.com/2010/02/06/hey-reggie-bush-what-ya-gonna-do-what-ya-gonna-do-make-our-dreams-come-true/)

So while it might seem like we're a tad hypocritical here, please remember, lurking poke, whorn and other weird opposing fans, that we were already punished. We already turned ourselves in, the NCAA already handed down their punishment and the athletes were kicked off the team and forced to pay back what they took to become eligible again.

What, other than punishing their awful non-title contending basketball program, has USC and its athletes done to pay for their wrong doings?Maximus Eloquentious, mah dear!

[texaspokieokie]

not everyone.

[boomermagic]

KInda what Bread said in a way .
Ya Know PC was in Bushs Folks home while recruiting him. Then after he signs and becomes somewhat of a star His folks Move in to a Dayum fine shack .
Kinda hard to NOT see that
where as Bomar and JD could very easily keep a few 100 at a time hidden
Plus it didnt go on for almost 3 seasons here. Not to mention the leinhart roomate dealio or some of the other crap .


Personally im to the point i dont really give a shat what happens to em.

As long as they are exposed as the Frauds they are .


Yep, I agree, I don't see how that got past the usc coaching staff.. I think they should tar and feather the whole damn bunch of em.. Put em on a 10 year probation..

[Flagstaffsooner]

http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2010/5/12/1469177/usc-report-delayed-world-waits-for

[badger]

Remember when Phil Fulmer snitched on Bammer?

It was very sleezy of him, not because Bammer wasn't guilty, but because he, too was guilty at the same time, but snitching allowed him to avoid punishment himself.

The lesson here is simple, folks - don't snitch on anybody, especially yourself, because the NCAA is not a governing rules-enforcing body. It is a paycheck collecting body. Now... who wants to pay their grand master overlord before he starts enforcing rules on ya?